What is the legal status of ARs with barrel lengths between 12 & 16" in AL. Pistols are under 12" barrel length and rifles are 16" according to state law. Can we legally have an AR pistol in AL with a barrel length between 12 and 16" without SBRing it?

jd1

You can pin/weld a 14.5 barrel and still put a stock on it, this brings a 14.5 barrel to legal 16 inch length.
Anything less requires a stamp to enable putting a stock on it.
Be it 12 or 7.5.

Best to put a sig brace, or variant thereof on anything less if you want to stay in bounds of the silly NFA regs.

there are plenty of folks who use the pistol rout while waiting on a stamp, me included.

JUST BE SURE you dont have a carbine buffer tube on a pistol configuration without a stamp.  [i.e. any barrel length less than 16 in. total]

Thanks. I have a 10.5" pistol with the SIG brace but wasn't sure about putting a longer barrel on it that was under the 16" limit.

Convoluted state and federal laws.

jd1

I brought this up once with my attorney and he indicated he could find no case law on the subject, but he would be uncomfortable owning any pistol with a barrel longer than 12" because he thinks somebody trying to make an issue of it could declare it an illegal SBR under Alabama law even if it did not violate federal law.  I had pointed out to him that some of the "mares leg" lever action M92 style  "pistols" which are transferred as handguns have a 12.5" barrel.   I don't think anybody in LE is paying attention to this sort of corner case, but it may be illegal in AL, until there is a case we probably won't know.

I don't see it being an issue. A pistol with a barrel 12" or longer still doesn't meet the definition of a rifle or a SBR.

Heck most cops really don't care (hell or even know about 12" length definition) as long as your legal to own a firearm. Plus what statute are you going to be charged under? 13a-11-70 is a definition not a statute with a charge.

Thanks for the conversation, guys. I tend to agree that it's a gray area and might be a non-issue but would rather steer clear of any Barney Fife at the range.

I would think you could be charged with possession of a short barreled rifle since anything 12" or over isn't considered a pistol anymore.

The law that covers SBS/SBR under Alabama law, basically says, if you are in possession of a SBR or SBS that is in violation of Federal Law, then it will be in violation of State Law too.  So if a  tax stamp is not required under federal law, then it is okay under AL state law.

Youre making this way to complicated.

(1) FIREARM. Definition is same as provided in Section 13A-8-1(4).

(2) rifle. Any weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each pull of the trigger.

(4) Short-barrelED rifle. A rifle having one or more barrels less than 16 inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches.


There is no statute that you could be charged for if your pistol has a 12" or longer barrel. The only place 12" < is mentioned is in the pistol definition. There isn't a criminal statute that you can be charged with. Typical silly Alabama wording, to be charged with a crime there needs to be a statute and that statute has to have a crime classification as in class A,B, or C misdemeanor/felony etc.

Plus why would you want a pistol with such a long barrel? If you're really that worried about it, Form 1 your pistol, and slap a stock on it, problem solved.

Alabama gun laws are so convoluted that the meaning of "pistol" is defined as "any FIREARM with a barrel less than 12 inches in length" so in theory a pistol can mean many different types of firearms with the pistol permits (SBS, MGs, SBR, DD's) as long as the barrel is less than 12". A rifle can be a rifle and a short barrel rifle at the same time so why can't (according to Alabama law) a pistol be a pistol and short barrel rifle too. I talked with an attorney about this and he told me that it would be defined as what the "intent" of the legislature was when creating the law My thoughts are how the hell are we suppose to know since the law has changed so many times over the last 100 or so years. I also like to go by what was written because interpretation of intent is subjective with those (political party) in power. Let say someone has a SBR concealed on person and also a pistol permit and a charge was brought, more than likely it would be before the Alabama supreme court to have it figured out.  Heck I'd love to have my legal SBR in my vehicle using my pistol permit but until the law is fixed I do not want to do it due to what might happen.

Yes Alabama wording is in a lot of areas. The definition of a rifle or SBR is pretty straight forward. It has to have a stock or built with a stock to be a rifle.
A pistol without a stock can not be a rifle. If a pistol has a stock/<16" barrel it clearly falls under SBR.  So if a pistol has a 12" or longer barrel what does it fall under? It clearly isnt a pistol by definition it also clearly isn't a rifle or SBR by definition. So according to the definitions it is a deadly weapon/firearm. Then there is no statute showing a charge for having a pistol with a barrel longer than 12".

Another thing that gets me is in the definition of firearm. There is no mention of a pistol. But in the definition of a pistol it calls it a, any firearm <12" barrel.

13a-11-50 covers the concealing of pistol and any firearm. So concealing a Rifle without the unconstitutional permit is illegal here. But to muddy the waters even more does a rifle fall under your carry permit?
Title 11 clearly states that it is illegal to carry a rifle or shotgun cane. They were able to add a section about cane guns but left out all common sense.


I want to say all of title 11 needs to be re written but Then I'm sure it would get even worse screwed up.

All I know is I want some of what they were drinking when these statutes (title 11) were written.

Your image below you last post was awesome! that is the way the state law makes me feel.
Maybe we can get the our reps to change or repeal parts of title 11. title 11 can go and everything would be A okay . Have you heard anything about the permit-less vehicle carry they keep trying to push through? I heard it made it through committee last special session but nothing after that.

My head is hurting from all this Alabama gun law craziness

So here's a question.  Given:


Wouldn't a loaded AR-15 pistol with a barrel greater than 12 inches (e.g. 14 inch barrel or perhaps 11.5 with pinned flash hider) be unaffected by 13A-11-73, since it is not a "Pistol" as defined in Alabama law?  And...

If it is not concealed on the person is it also not affected by 13A-11-50:


and since it is not a "rifle" by 13A-11-62 :


Would not be affected by 13A-11-54?

and thus:

TL;DR: Not that I have any inclination to go parading around with one, but do I read correctly that having a loaded AR pistol with a barrel longer than 12" not concealed in a vehicle is no violation of Alabama law?  (same for loaded shot gun?)

Who knows? I think the wording "firearm of any kind" would get you. Not worth the risk to me.

But that only applies to "concealed".  So if it were plainly visible, like on a gun rack, that couldn't be argued to apply.

In my opinion Alabama firearms law needs a total revamp, but the risk of getting something terrible on the other end I think keeps things the way they are.

In Your vehicle is concealed, well, when it comes to a pistol anyway. Now add the 16" barrel receiver without a stock, no one knows.

I'm in agreement, Alabama weapon laws need rewritten, but I'm scared as to how they would be rewritten. Lately we have had a lot of gun laws changed for our good. SBR, shall issue permits, businesses can't restrict employee vehicle carry, and soon to be permit less vehicle carry.
If there ever was a good time to have them revamped it would be now.

The problem is NOT Alabama law, but the Federal Law that Alabama tries to match.

I could see someone trying to use that rationale to stick it to someone carrying a non-rifle with a barrel over 12" in their vehicle just out of spite, simply declaring that having a firearm in the car is concealed defies the common definition of the word concealed though, particularly if it is plainly visible inside and outside the car in the gunrack example.  

looking at 13A-11-73:


Carrying in a pistol (a firearm with a barrel under 12") in a vehicle is called out distinctly from "concealed on or about his or her person", which mirrors the language in "13A-11-50" which only describes concealed carry as being on "concealed on the person".  It would be a far stretch to attempt to redefine concealed as put forward in 13A-11-50 as being carried off-body or not concealed simply by extending the permit to allow off-body / non-concealed carry in a car.  Likewise since all of these describe "pistol" and a non-rifle firearm with a barrel greater than 12" is merely a "Firearm" under Alabama law, it also doesn't follow that these sections could apply to it (particularly where federal law changes definition from pistol to "firearm" based on OAL, like the Franklin Armory XO-26-S).  

All this might matter if one's case were being reviewed by a straight judge, however I've been told things get done a little differently in Alabama, particularly if someone decides they don't like you...

From my standpoint the blanket vehicle carry prohibition is in clear defiance of Section 26 of the Alabama constitution and the new strict scrutiny language SHOULD enable the right court to clearly throw out the restriction on open vehicle carry of a pistol at any rate.  Just need a volunteer with plenty of time and money to go first
 
That or perhaps some legislator will throw that on to the ballot at election time to increase voter turnout.

Permit less vehicle carry was tried this yr and didn't make it. Getting SBR wording changed took a few tries.
I'm all for Constitutional carry. Maybe one of these days.