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Posted: 10/21/2013 7:40:12 PM EDT
[#1]
Is it state law or a game regulation?
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:47:10 PM EDT
[#2]
This post has been repurposed for documenting key questions
Key questions: How often and how successfully is the audible signature of firearms used to detect and interdict the illegal taking of game? How likely are the users of lawfully owned suppressors to commit unlawful acts with them? |
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Posted: 10/22/2013 3:00:43 AM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 10/22/2013 9:37:29 AM EDT
[#4]
Re-purposed Post: Reserved
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Posted: 10/22/2013 12:52:32 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 10/22/2013 1:39:10 PM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 10/22/2013 4:00:10 PM EDT
[#7]
I want this to happen. Don't care about WMA since I hunt private land and don't care about hunting deer with suppressors either(bow hunt only).
Id love to bust some hogs and coyotes though. But I think it should be 100% legal. No conditions. |
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Posted: 10/22/2013 4:36:33 PM EDT
[#8]
I see no reason not to push for complete legalization in all hunting applications. No reason to disturb the other woodland creatures.
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Posted: 10/22/2013 8:41:07 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see no reason not to push for complete legalization in all hunting applications. No reason to disturb the other woodland creatures. That said, what are the counter arguments? Unsportsman like? Uncompetitive advantage for those not using one? Need to have an answer for each predictable gotcha. |
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Posted: 10/23/2013 4:15:31 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see no reason not to push for complete legalization in all hunting applications. No reason to disturb the other woodland creatures. |
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Posted: 10/23/2013 12:53:31 PM EDT
[#11]
the only rational counter argument I have ever heard is that it makes it harder for the game wardens to detect, locate and apprehend out of season hunters
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Posted: 10/23/2013 7:11:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the only rational counter argument I have ever heard is that it makes it harder for the game wardens to detect, locate and apprehend out of season hunters So what's stopping people from doing that now?... |
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Posted: 10/24/2013 8:30:49 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what's stopping people from doing that now?... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: the only rational counter argument I have ever heard is that it makes it harder for the game wardens to detect, locate and apprehend out of season hunters So what's stopping people from doing that now?... Let's assume the push is for just dropping the suppressor restriction across all firearm hunting. Suppose someone cries that it is unsporting and puts other hunters at a disadvantage? |
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Posted: 10/24/2013 11:40:39 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup, and add to that the background check and investment in a legal suppressor. The population in question has already demonstrated a willingness to obey the law and a history of lawful behavior, else they wouldn't have a suppressor. If someone had angst that this would lead to a bunch of makeshift illegal suppressors being used, add some language which says the suppressors must be owned in accordance with state/fed law. Let's assume the push is for just dropping the suppressor restriction across all firearm hunting. Suppose someone cries that it is unsporting and puts other hunters at a disadvantage? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
the only rational counter argument I have ever heard is that it makes it harder for the game wardens to detect, locate and apprehend out of season hunters So what's stopping people from doing that now?... Let's assume the push is for just dropping the suppressor restriction across all firearm hunting. Suppose someone cries that it is unsporting and puts other hunters at a disadvantage? I would counter that with suppressors being safety device and would help protect the hearing of the hunter. |
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Posted: 10/24/2013 12:05:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the only rational counter argument I have ever heard is that it makes it harder for the game wardens to detect, locate and apprehend out of season hunters They should make hunting out of season illegal. In all seriousness bow and arrows make no noise at all. Also it is very hard to locate someone with a single shot fired. |
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Posted: 10/24/2013 12:07:25 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would counter that with suppressors being safety device and would help protect the hearing of the hunter. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: the only rational counter argument I have ever heard is that it makes it harder for the game wardens to detect, locate and apprehend out of season hunters So what's stopping people from doing that now?... Let's assume the push is for just dropping the suppressor restriction across all firearm hunting. Suppose someone cries that it is unsporting and puts other hunters at a disadvantage? I would counter that with suppressors being safety device and would help protect the hearing of the hunter. After shooting with a suppressor, I hate shooting without one. Ear protection every time I pull the trigger.
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Posted: 10/24/2013 5:38:07 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: After shooting with a suppressor, I hate shooting without one. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: the only rational counter argument I have ever heard is that it makes it harder for the game wardens to detect, locate and apprehend out of season hunters So what's stopping people from doing that now?... Let's assume the push is for just dropping the suppressor restriction across all firearm hunting. Suppose someone cries that it is unsporting and puts other hunters at a disadvantage? I would counter that with suppressors being safety device and would help protect the hearing of the hunter. After shooting with a suppressor, I hate shooting without one. Ear protection every time I pull the trigger. I think any argument that suppressors might lead to higher rates of taking game would be countered by existing bag limits and seasons, which can be tailored if needed to fine tune harvest rates should any unexpected impacts be documented. Would like to get enough material together to try and make a rule change / law update a slam dunk. Looking for anything else for or against that might come up anyone else can suggest. |
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Posted: 10/24/2013 5:51:47 PM EDT
[#18]
With a 2 doe a day limit in AL I doubt that bag limits will be an issue. Even if they became more mainstream, you would not see an increase in suppressors in the hands of hunters for a long time. I called to check on mine this week............ 15 months estimated from receipt of forms.
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:18:57 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With a 2 doe a day limit in AL I doubt that bag limits will be an issue. Even if they became more mainstream, you would not see an increase in suppressors in the hands of hunters for a long time. I called to check on mine this week............ 15 months estimated from receipt of forms. ETA: I'm going to take perverse amusement watching the race between a push for suppressor legalization, and a stamp actually arriving. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 2:46:38 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: With a 2 doe a day limit in AL I doubt that bag limits will be an issue. Even if they became more mainstream, you would not see an increase in suppressors in the hands of hunters for a long time. I called to check on mine this week............ 15 months estimated from receipt of forms. ETA: I'm going to take perverse amusement watching the race between a push for suppressor legalization, and a stamp actually arriving. You are a little masochistic, aren't you. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 5:54:54 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: I hear you :( I'm just getting my forms together now :(Quoted: Quoted: With a 2 doe a day limit in AL I doubt that bag limits will be an issue. Even if they became more mainstream, you would not see an increase in suppressors in the hands of hunters for a long time. I called to check on mine this week............ 15 months estimated from receipt of forms. ETA: I'm going to take perverse amusement watching the race between a push for suppressor legalization, and a stamp actually arriving. You are a little masochistic, aren't you ETA: found nothing in state law about suppressors or silencers regarding hunting, though apperantly there is a tax on "maxim silencers"... http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/alcode/40/12/2/40-12-143 Who knew... http://www.forgottenweapons.com/accessories/maxim-silencer/ |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 9:49:22 AM EDT
[#22]
Sent Arthur Orr a letter about this. Will post here if he responds.
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Posted: 11/5/2013 1:34:52 PM EDT
[#23]
Still nothing from Senator Orr. I did email Mickey Hammon today as he is my rep in the State House.
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Posted: 11/6/2013 10:41:16 AM EDT
[#24]
If you did a survey of hunters, asking if they wore ear protection while hunting, I would bet the results would be 90%+ to the negative.
I hear them long before I see them in most situations.
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Posted: 11/6/2013 11:03:35 AM EDT
[#25]
I have requested some sample legislation that other states have used from the NRA-ILA
We will see how that turns out.
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Posted: 11/7/2013 11:11:38 AM EDT
[#26]
Awesome! Maybe we can get some movement going on this.
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Posted: 11/7/2013 11:11:38 AM EDT
[#27]
doubletap
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Posted: 11/7/2013 6:46:10 PM EDT
[#28]
You may want to check with your county and game officials regarding private property hunts andpermits for nuisance animal hunts. I heard some talking where you could use them in that case. Always check to make sure before you do.
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Posted: 11/7/2013 9:00:35 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You may want to check with your county and game officials regarding private property hunts andpermits for nuisance animal hunts. I heard some talking where you could use them in that case. Always check to make sure before you do. |
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Posted: 11/8/2013 12:35:10 PM EDT
[#30]
I've got some exploratory letters out / going out... Will update what I do or don't hear back on.
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Posted: 11/9/2013 11:07:50 AM EDT
[#31]
I got a reply back from Arthur Orr. Basically, my email to him was that I would like to see us being able to use suppressors for hunting because they are a safety device in that it will protect the hearing of hunters and that contrary to Hollywood, rifles with suppressors are not silent but they reduce the noise from the rifle to safe hearing levels. I also asked about getting a law passed that would allow concealed carry permit holders to not have to do a 4473 for every firearms purchase similar to what other states have in place.
Here is his response: Dear Joshua: Thank you for contacting me with your suggestions regarding changes to our state's gun laws. Your suggestions seem reasonable and viable. I do find it helpful to gain a wide variety of perspectives on issues like this and will do so. Thank you for bringing them to my attention. It is an honor and privilege to represent you in Montgomery. I am grateful for the opportunity. If I can be of assistance in the future, please call on me. Respectfully, Arthur Orr He seems to be open to the idea of presenting legislation. |
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Posted: 11/15/2013 11:46:01 AM EDT
[#32]
Anybody else heard anything?
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Posted: 11/19/2013 3:38:10 PM EDT
[#33]
Nope. The NRA has not responded to my request.
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Posted: 11/22/2013 8:51:17 AM EDT
[#34]
Anyone know if there is a way to determine if any crimes have been committed in Alabama with a registered NFA suppressor? If the number isn't zero I'd be shocked, but that would be a helpful statistic to raise if someone objects about potential use in violation of the law.
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Posted: 11/22/2013 10:25:24 AM EDT
[#35]
I have lived in Alabama since 1988 and I have never heard(no pun intended) of anything like that.
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Posted: 11/22/2013 4:03:49 PM EDT
[#36]
I would really like to see this work out. Please let us know what we can be doing to help. My schedule is crazy, but I am happy to help with whatever I can.
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Posted: 11/22/2013 5:03:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone know if there is a way to determine if any crimes have been committed in Alabama with a registered NFA suppressor? If the number isn't zero I'd be shocked, but that would be a helpful statistic to raise if someone objects about potential use in violation of the law. There's a good thread here on the topic of crimes committed with legally possessed suppressors in the whole US here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_20/348237_can_anyone_name_any_Actual_crimes_involving_suppressors.html (many of the links are now dead) There's a great article entitled "Criminal Use of Suppressors" here: http://wcr.sonoma.edu/v08n2/44.clark/clark.pdf I scannned through the article and didn't see any mention of criminal use of legally owned suppressors, but I may have missed it. It lists a bunch of interesting cases and decisions. |
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Posted: 11/22/2013 6:15:19 PM EDT
[#38]
Great stuff. Preliminary inquiries have been made with the conservation dept to see how likely they are to consider policy change vs need to have legalization made an issue in the legislature. Depending on how they answer or don't will set the stage for follow up. General issue fliers should probably be printed and in stores that will allow them prior to black Friday.
If a flyer template came out this weekend would any folks be willing to print a few to leave with their LGS (if they allow such things)? |
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Posted: 11/23/2013 9:09:25 AM EDT
[#39]
I would be happy to check with some of the stores in Huntsville. I know Larry's is in the suppressor game so they would have a vested interest in being able to move more suppressors.
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Posted: 11/24/2013 12:14:14 AM EDT
[#40]
Here's my first proposal for a general info teaser card that can be placed on pin-up boards anywhere, or left on counters at stores that are sympathetic. Intended to be shrunk down into 3.5x2 business card format - dual sided (but adaptable to other uses).
Totally open to other suggestions, corrections, contributions, etc. Side 1:  Side 2:  Thoughts? Again, if anyone has better skills and tools, by all means jump in! |
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Posted: 11/25/2013 10:01:02 AM EDT
[#41]
Looks good to me. I had seen a map of states that allow suppressor hunting. Alabama, Georgia and Florida are all by ourselves down here in not allowing it.
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Posted: 11/25/2013 10:11:55 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks good to me. I had seen a map of states that allow suppressor hunting. Alabama, Georgia and Florida are all by ourselves down here in not allowing it. I like it, too. Here's a map showing the legality of hunting with suppressors in the US. I haven't checked any of the info on it. 
Image found at http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/380105858/m/3410077533 |
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Posted: 11/25/2013 12:54:13 PM EDT
[#43]
Thanks man. That is similar to the one I had seen prior.
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Posted: 11/25/2013 1:50:36 PM EDT
[#44]
Thanks for those. In looking around at those maps this weekend I noticed a
need for an up to dated one since so many states have turned around lately. I'm thinking an independent blog/site needs to be set up to help focus people from different forums/interests and provide info and news to help with a push for legalization in 2014. Something to help raise awareness and build support. |
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Posted: 11/25/2013 5:11:53 PM EDT
[#45]
In on this thread. I want to see this happen. Would absolutely LOVE to hunt with a can.....if I owned one.
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Posted: 11/25/2013 8:28:22 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In on this thread. I want to see this happen. Would absolutely LOVE to hunt with a can.....if I owned one. My forms go in early next year... Like I said earlier... will be interesting to see which happens first in the bureaucracy battle, legalization or stamp :) It's not like I really go hunting either, I just don't care for restrictions without a purpose and I'm at a loss for the harm use of lawfully owned suppressors might cause. That said... Update from DCNR: Here's the folks that need positive input from the community on suppressor legalization for hunting: http://www.outdooralabama.com/about/board/  They indicated that they were aware lawfully owned suppressors are rarely used in crime, and said they welcome input on the topic, either by contacting the above or at an open meeting in March. Nothing enthusiastic or committal, nor anything negative was indicated. I think some positively toned inputs from the community is the way to go. Going to make an updated awareness flyer / card to reflect the updated info. Best if folks hear feedback before end of year, and then again in the spring before the March meeting I figure. |
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Posted: 11/25/2013 9:48:06 PM EDT
[#47]
Thanks for that link. I am gonna start passing the info along.
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Posted: 1/23/2014 1:21:38 AM EDT
[#48]
The Alabama Conservation Advisory Board will hold its first scheduled meeting of 2014 on Saturday, March 1, in Montgomery, Ala. The meeting will take place at the Alabama Department of Agriculture and Industries, Richard Beard Building Auditorium located at 1445 Federal Dr., Montgomery, Ala., 36107. Registration for those wishing to address the board will be from 8 a.m. to 8:30 a.m., and the meeting will begin promptly at 9 a.m. By a two-thirds vote of the members present and with the governor’s approval, the board can amend, make any changes, repeal or create and promulgate additional rules and regulations.  Help needed: Please help spread the word to other persons and communities that might also be supportive of this rule change. This info also posted as update in OP |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 1:22:52 PM EDT
[#49]
So are you guys sending snail mail letters to everyone on this list, or emailing them, or just the folks in your area, etc.?
Do we need to send letters to our state representatives? |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 6:29:38 PM EDT
[#50]
First thing to keep in mind is "You guys" is you and anyone else who is moved to lobby on behalf of changing the hunting regs to allow suppressors.
Currently the only obstacle I know of is a concervation board rule, so it probably doesn't require the attention of state congress as yet. If appeals to the board are insufficient, then it would be a subject to bring to the legislature. Personally I don't see a down side to writing and/or emailing each of the board members so long as the discussion is neighborly in tone. Key thing is to get the word out and get people writing in before the March. I'll be drafting up more flyers/ info cards soon if people will print them and help pass them around. |
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