 rvb 
Member
Joined: May 2002  MD, USA
 Posts: 295 Feedback: 0% (0) |
Posted: 6/16/2005 9:34:06 PM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT what I want to know is: what do I need to do to get CLEO signoff? Make an apointment? Walk in and do it at the same time as the fingerprints? Who do I call if an apt? Thanks! rvb |
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Posted: 6/16/2005 10:55:34 PM
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Posted: 6/16/2005 11:23:10 PM
[Last Edit: 6/18/2005 2:30:00 AM by DCChris]
Hey rvb-
To get a MD CLEO sign-off: First - no appointment - you really have to be in Jessup on Thursday mornings in person. 1) Have your paperwork ready, but DONT SIGN the form 1's just yet. They have to witness it... more on that later. By paperwork ready, have your 2 form 1's, 2 blue ATF cards and your checkbook. 2) Once you make it to Jessup (the only place they can sign), go to the processing building (to the right of the "little brick building" with the wheelchair lift) and sign in. Sign up for three print cards (2X blue atf and 1X MSP orange). 3) They will take your ID and you will be called. 4) Get fingerprinted for your 2 blue ATF cards and for 1 "orange" MSP CJIS card. Ask them - the do keep the orange cards cards there. 5) It is 5 bucks per card - $15 typically for 3x. Bring CASH or CHECK - no plastic allowed. 6) Go out to your car and fill in the specifics of the "orange card" after your prints are on it - name, address, DL number, "I certify that I am not a felon", etc. 7) Go to the "little brick building in the center of the complex" and tell the woman you have C3 paperwork to drop off. 8) Sign both form 1's in front of them. 9) Stroke a check for $18 for exercising your second amendment rights. 10) Go home and WAIT.... at least 3 to 4 weeks will pass. Basically, the orange card goes to Pikesville and they make sure you are not Chester Molester. Once your orange card "background check" comes back clean, they will sign the forms and you will get them in your mailbox. Keep the orange card as a keepsake - the ATF doesn't need it after the CLEO signs it. If you decide to do more F4's or F1's, you still need to do this every time. I did find out they only need one per dealer, meaning if you have 2 items from a dealer you only need one orange card. Two seperate items from two seperate dealers requires two cards.... for what reason I don't even want to know. One more tip - they only print on Thursday mornings 9-11ish. Get the old guy to do it! He is a reserve volunteer and he is the best (I think his name is Robert). I had a rookie do my prints once and he inked my fingers on each press. Pikesville rejected my prints as illegible and I had to do them again (free of course, by the older guy). If you think they are too dark, complain. If not, it will only add wait to getting your signed F4 or F1's back. Yes, it is a LAME process with lots of wait, but if your nose is clean .... they will sign. Good luck my friend! Chris. |
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Posted: 6/17/2005 11:39:27 AM
WOW!
Chris really has this stuff down...I could have listed the same process but I would have forgotten the "old guy's" name..anyway follow his instructions exactly and you will be golden. |
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Posted: 6/17/2005 12:41:03 PM
Thanks so much guys!! I'm planning to go over next Thurs. and get this ball rolling.
Where's best to get the Blue ATF [fingerprint] cards? I ASSumed they would have them at Jessup... should I get them from http://www.atf.treas.gov/ ?? Was going to just print the Form 1s (double sided) but may order them too if I have to order blue FP cards anyway. Thanks again!!! I am printing this off as we speak... rvb (Ryan) ps. Who knows a good place to get my SBR receiver engraved when all the paperwork comes back (early in '06, I suppose  ). I'm in the B-W corridor.Thanks! |
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Posted: 6/18/2005 2:24:01 AM
[Last Edit: 6/18/2005 2:32:47 AM by DCChris]
Hey rvb-
You MUST HAVE ATF pre-stamped blue cards. The ones they have at the MSP are NOT USEABLE since they did not originate from the ATF. Order the correct cards online at the URL you provided or call the ATF distribution center in Springfield, Va and order them over the phone. Turn around time is about a week. There are two styles of "ORI" (originator) codes that are prestamped on the blue cards and accepted by the ATF. These are the ony ones you should have the MSP sign and send to the ATF. The first ORI code "style" prestamped is: DCATF0100 ATF/FIREARMS & EXPLO DIV WASHINGTON, DC The second ORI code "style" prestamped is: DCATF0100 AT&F FIREARMS & EXPLO DIV WASH, DC (either one will work) I would highy suggest you wait and don't spend the time and money until you go through CLEO signoff with the proper cards which your ordered from the ATF. Hell, order a dozen while you are at it, you never know when you need more. It would really stink if your cards were rejected by the ATF (which has happened) which will add months to your wait time. I know for a fact the blue cards they have at the MSP are for teacher/PI carry holder background checks and they do not have the right stampings. Don't risk it - get the right form. Chris. |
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Posted: 6/19/2005 10:58:46 AM
Chris,
Forms are ordered. Thanks for all the info!! rvb |
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Forest
The Duck...
Team Member
Joined: Nov 2000 MD, USA
Posts: 14487 Feedback: 100% (29) Link To This Post |
Posted: 6/22/2005 10:41:06 AM
Tagged - great information HERE!
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Posted: 6/22/2005 9:18:21 PM
FYI:
Got my forms last night (Tuesday, FAST turn around, ordered Friday pm). My ORI code looks like: DCATF0100 ATF - NFA WASHINGTON, DC Going to MSP in Jessup tomorrow. Got the passport photos tonight at wallyworld in Laurel. And so it begins............... rvb |
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Posted: 6/23/2005 9:20:49 PM
[Last Edit: 6/23/2005 9:21:24 PM by DCChris]
RVB - That is a new ORI code to me, but it seems to fall in line for what they are looking for.
How did it go today? I usually just use digital camera pictures of my noggin inf front of a white wall in my house. My wife scrapbooks so she just cuts them down to 2x2 for me after I run them off on my HP960c with photo paper. I have never had a problem with that on form 4's or 1's. Chris. |
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Posted: 6/23/2005 10:21:59 PM
Chris,
went fine. hopefully I'll have good news in my mailbox in a few weeks. do they usually take your blue ATF cards, too? I went in the main building with just the orange card (and form 1's and check) and she asked for the ATF cards.... I told her they were out in the car and I'd be right back with them, and she said not to bother, that she didn't need them, but would have taken them if i had them. I'm still old-tech on the camers.... it was only $15 for four pictures at wallyworld, so I have a pair for when I get my silencer after the SBR is done. Thanks for all the pointers. I also got my MD collector's permit notorized tonight, so I'm going to send that in tomorrow, too. rvb ps... my wife is a scrapbook-aholic, too! |
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Posted: 6/23/2005 10:25:39 PM
[Last Edit: 6/23/2005 10:27:57 PM by DCChris]
Yeah, they normally take them as a backup if the prints aren't so good on the on the CJIS card. You will get them back if you did turn them in. Sometimes they want them, sometimes they don't... mine have happened both ways. Actually for my last form 1, they didn't take my blue cards, come to think of it, but my last form 4's they did... but I don't think it is a hard and fast rule.
Actually... can you shed a little light on the MD collector's permit? See my other thread - I just got my federal C&R license, and I understand that form lets you get more than one gun per month. I didn't have any luck searching the prior posts in the forum. How did you get the form? What do you do to get it official? Any help is appreciated. Good luck on the wait... let us know when the big manila envelope comes home! Chris. |
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Posted: 6/24/2005 9:59:23 AM
Chris, The MD collector's permit gives you two things from what I can tell... First, it gets you around the one-gun-a-month rule, you can buy however many you want. Second, It loosens the transport restrictions... for example, if I want to bring my new AR over to your house and show it to you when I finish it, that would be breaking the law. I can only transport to a dealer/smith/range and straight back. However, with a collector's permit, I can bring the weapons over to your house as a "private showing" of my collection. I got a photocopy of the form at my local range/dealer. It takes 2 minutes to fill out, then you need to get it notorized while you sign it, and send it in. Cost is $0.37 for a stamp and whatever your notory charges (free for me). Most dealers have the forms, and if not, I'm sure you can call the MSP and have them send you one. I did a quick look on the MSP website and couldn't find a copy or any information. Takes a couple weeks to hear back from the MSP that you are registered as a collector. There is a box on the MD handgun form that you can now check instead of making sure you are 30 days past your last purchase. You need not show proof to your dealer, nor does the MSP issue any registration or permit card, you're just on a list somewhere. rvb |
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Posted: 6/24/2005 6:30:44 PM
Thanks for the info. So the only day you can do this is Thursday, correct? I'm planning to do the paperwork while I'm home on leave; gotta plan for it now.  |
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Posted: 6/24/2005 9:07:26 PM
correct, from 0900 to 1130. rvb |
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Posted: 6/25/2005 12:25:39 AM
Excellent. Thanks again for the info! |
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Posted: 7/6/2005 7:09:20 PM
FYI, I received a letter confirming my approval on the MD collector's permit today. I mailed the form to the MD State Police on June 24, the day after going in for the Form 1 fingerprints... less than 2 weeks from mailbox to mailbox.
I'm still waiting on the CLEO signoff on my Form1. Will update you all when I get it back. Hopefully it will arrive this time next week... rvb |
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Posted: 7/8/2005 2:33:35 PM
TR
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Posted: 7/8/2005 7:44:11 PM
I actually took care of the collectors form today.
I stopped by Jessup on the way to work today and asked for "a collectors application/permit/form". The lady was nice enough to look over and found it for me. It is called a "Maryland State Police Regulated Firearms Collector Application and Affidavit". Also, called a MSP77C (dated 11-02). Fortunately, I work in a big place so I found a secretary who was a notary. She filled out the bottom and I took it back and dropped off the original copy today at about 3:00 PM. Not too bad turnaround if I say so myself. Basically, the form wants DL #, SSN, your name, address, birth date, birth city, country, height, weight, sex, race, eye and hair color. occupation and home and work #'s. It also asks to "Describe nature of collecting activities". You sign and date it in front of your notary public and send it back (or drop it off) as stated above. I was given a very crappy zeroxed copy to fill in as an originial. I can post it if someone wants to see it. Thanks for helping me out RVB. I have been shooting and into guns for a while and never heard about this form or exemption before. Chris. |
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Posted: 7/22/2005 1:18:38 PM
Update on my F1s ...
Got them signed and returned from the MSP yesterday, exactly 4 weeks to the day from dropping them off. They went out today to the BATF in DC via USPS Priority w/ delivery confirmation. Now the 6-month wait begins... :( Thanks for all the VERY useful information. Your help greatly smoothed out the processes. rvb |
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Posted: 7/22/2005 8:14:14 PM
Good to hear. I'm going to be back in MD soon, and will be doing the same thing. I'm glad members here have been able to shine some light on the process.  |
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Posted: 8/5/2005 7:14:22 PM
All-
Got my collectors "permit" (???) confirmation today. Took about 3 weeks... I just chalked it up to vacation slowdown. Thanks to all for the heads up and advice. Now... where is my C&R license? :) Chris. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 9:42:53 PM
Chris,
Good news on your permit. Yesterday my $200 was cashed by the ATF. 2.5 weeks. hopefully I'll go "pending" here in a couple weeks, too. I'm now $420 into this project, and all I have to show for it is my mag block and 6 weeks wasted... what a crappy process... rvb |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 5:10:08 AM
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 5:23:30 AM by DCChris]
rvb-
I am hearing now that the approval is 120 days AFTER the pending date, which is not the date they cash your check. It used to be a day or so afterwards, now I am hearing a few weeks. I would give it a few weeks and call the ATF at (202) 927-8330 (I think they might have a new number now in WV). For your first call - make sure you have the serial number of the weapon you are putting on a F1 handy. They always seem to ask for your name and the serial. If it is the old "friendly" ATF, the wonderful civil servant will probably just blurt out "pending." Don't just say okay and hang up. Get some more information. Make sure you ask them the following: 1) What date did I go pending? 2) Who is my examiner (Get a full name)? 3) What is my examiners extension? I would then let 90 to 120 days pass from the pending date and give 'em a call back. FWIW - I live in Columbia and it takes them exactly one week from the approval date to get the F1 in my mailbox or my F4 to my SOT. For me, that means they approve on a Friday and I get it exactly a week later. I don't know if that has changed now with the move or not... I will let you know when I get some forms in. I am currently waiting on 2 F4's, one for a machine gun and one for a can. Chris. P.S. One time I had a transfer for a 1921 Thompson go on for 7+ months. I called my congressman Elijah Cummings (very anti gun) and his staffer actually unstuck the paperwork and got the transfer for me in short order. I always brag about that ATF experience... a liberal, anti gun dem helped me get a machine gun! :) I will say that his office was very cool about it and didn't really care that it was an automatic weapon. It is amazing how the "missing finger print report" was found and the F4 approved in 24 hours after the congressional inquiry. |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 5:17:50 AM
Now that is quite a story! Elijah Cummings is my Congresscritter too; I'll have to remember that. Thanks as always for the good info guys; in about a month I'll be putting my paperwork in. |
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Posted: 8/17/2005 5:53:52 PM
SlimHazy-
Calling him was the best thing to do. I wish I would have done it sooner when I "had that feeling" something was goofed up. All- Just wanted to let you all know of my recent ATF turnaround time. I had two form 4's go out and went pending on 5/2/2005. I thought I was going to be out of luck, since the WV move was starting to kick in. I got a call from my SOT yesterday and my gun and suppressor were in. Both forms were approved on 8/10, postmarked on 8/10 and received by my SOT on 8/16. The examiner is James Scott T(horton? I cannot make out his last name) with a supervisor stamp of Dawn Henson. I live in Maryland and my last name starts with a "B". The letter with the forms had the address of: "Department of Justice Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives National Tracing Center 244 Needy Road Martinsburg, WV 25401-9431" My SOT also said he had talked to Scott (goes by his middle name) and said he was the nicest and most helpful examiner he had ever had the pleasure of talking to at the NFA/ATF. Looks like some of the less desireable "civil servants" didn't make the move. I will be sure to shed a tear for them ... NOT. All in all, I cannot bitch too much - about 95 days from mailbox to SOT - especially considering the move. I hope everyone elses transfers or form 1's go as smooth. Chris. |
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