Nope.   #MomsDemand that #BlackLivesMatter.

http://m.wlky.com/news/rep-john-yarmuth-to-attend-rally-against-gun-violence/40279990

I'm sure that it was a gun free zone also.

Those moms don't care.    If a mother cared,  she would carry.

#BlackLiesMatter

No, it wasn't. There were KC3 members in the crowd and they were open carrying.

Well even if you hadn't been there I'm sure Yarmouths security team brought theirs.

Oh, of course. I was told by some friends that were there that both Yarmuth and Fischer had security teams present and LMPD was there in force, but you know, their lives are more valuable than other lives, like yours or mine. Using a gun to protect them is OK. Using one to protect our lives is (or should be) criminal. My friends had several conversations with LMPD and they seemed supportive of our position and agreed that the problem was not guns, but much larger and diverse.(poverty, gangs, lack of parenting, lack of punishment etc)

I agree with all that. Well except the lack of punishment part. It's had to say that we aren't punishing people when we have the largest prison population on the planet.

With the exception of a certain big house in AZ and a small handful of others, jails and prisons in this country aren't punishment.  It's free meals, free bed, free utilities, cable TV, free gym membership, etc. along with an advanced course on how to be a criminal.  It's probably tough to understand that kind of mentality for most "normal" people, but those kinds of "benefits" can be pretty alluring to a poverty stricken, hungry, cold hoodrat looking to beef up their criminal resume and some get arrested just to get those benefits.

And that's when people who get arrested even make it into the prison system, as opposed to getting charges dropped/dismissed or getting a slap on the wrist once they get into the DA's office or courtroom.  

And that's if they even get arrested in the first place, as opposed to not getting caught at all (whether due to being sneaky or due to a political mandate to not have high crime numbers) or being caught and released on the spot (officer discretion or the aforementioned political mandate).  



And all of this disregards that punishment of bad behavior from bad people isn't 100% in the wheelhouse of the government.  Parent's could have been punishing their kids when they misbehave right out of the gate, but they don't.  Fathers are either not around or are around but not punishing them and/or providing a bad role model.  Mothers are often not punishing them "out of love" or because the kids are too out of hand for her to punish, or because she is afraid of repercussions.  Remember the outrage in the media (although there was some support) about the mother that punished her kid after she saw him rioting in Ferguson or Baltimore or whatever other third world city that was in?  Teachers and schools don't punish kids for terrible behavior either.  It's not like these kids are going to church for someone there to straighten them out.  It's not like there are any positive role models (at least not that this type is interested in listening to) out there encouraging them to not behave like that.

As far as then being punishment all the jail prisons etc I have ever been in smelled looked and sounded like a layer of Dantes inferno. I would call that punishment , you may not. Prisons don't deter crime.  "I had better not do that cause I might get caught and get sent to prison" said no criminal ever.  On the other hand they are a amazing revenue source for the owners and operators.

By the time you are out in public doing stupid shit to get locked up you are already a lost cause. I have to agree with you that it is a systemic issue with in the culture. The American culture and the American culture sucks.

Capital punishment then.   Make more crimes, such as theft of a privately owned firearm,  a capital offense.

American culture is quickly devolving into the weakness and emptiness of the rest of the world.

Masfonos, you nailed it.   That is the reason I don't want grandchildren.   I don't want my son to have to attempt to raise a child in this lame society.

thanks but no thanks.

I don't believe that the government executing more American citizens is the answer to a better nation. YMMV

It depends on who they execute. I can think of several that if they were executed we would certainly have a better nation. I have come to the realization that we will never get out of the mess that we are in without some very significant executions.

I wouldn't argue that. In the end it will be inevitable.

My mileage certainly does vary!!   I think gallows on the courthouse law for Sunday afternoons would be great.  Seriously.  Start with the drug dealers, rapists, murderers, violent assulters...  

We could also throw in a few corrupt politicians, just to see if the others take the hint.

Louisville Metro Mayor, Greg Fischer now says that he wants the state to give cities and counties the power to regulate guns. Just last week he said he wasn't going to do that, because it was futile. He caught so much flack from the liberals in Jefferson Co. that he is now backtracking. Read the article below and notice the Twitter response by State Senate Majority Floor Leader, Damon Thayer.

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/greg-fischer/2016/06/30/fischer-calls-local-gun-control-measures/86485344/

What can we demand?   That is, demand, not exoect.    What things should metro be doing?   Specifically?     Let us make a list and start mailing it out and sending it to officials.

It is going to be tough. When the riot happened at the waterfront a couple of years ago, Fischer was quoted as saying that "we can't arrest our way out of this". Using that a given, I really don't know where we could go next. I guess we can ask them to not do that stuff any more. Maybe we should say "Please, don't murder people any more" and be really emphatic with the "any ...... more" part. Personally, I have two solutions. 1.) stay out of Louisville 2.) If I must go to Louisville, be well armed.

Mayor Fischer and local anti-gun people, which one of these proposals would have prevented this: http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2016/05/05/report-2-shot-pegasus-parade/83992156/

I will work with the Mayor to get at root causes. I will oppose him every step of the way if all he's going to do is pass laws that restrict, hamper, and annoy the good people of Louisville while doing nothing harmful to the bad people pissing on our city.

This is what I am getting at.   We have to demand action.      The city is intentionally letting the jails run over capacity.     We should hire Sheriff Joe to provide solutions and change the laws to make incarceration easier on the tax payers.  

The state must follow through on the death penalty.

The state must make theft of a privately owned gun a capital offense.

The state must make forceful/violent rape a capital offense.

The state must make the possession of firearm by convicted felon while committing another felony a capital offense.

The state must make possession of a firearm while selling illegal drugs a capital offense.

The state must work to minimize "Gun Free" "Kill Zones" by passing laws holding businesses accountable for damages in such  "Gun Free" "Kill Zones".

People with CDWL are NOT involved in any of this stuff.

WE must demand action!

Is this for punishment of criminals or just entertainment for the masses ?

When you have cold blooded predators being released onto the streets after being found guilty of and serving a few years for commiting violent random crimes, yes the American citizens need to have their local governments utilize the death penalty more often and for a more appropriate scope of crimes.

Punishment of criminals and to provide an example of will happen to those entering the professions...  

It's a matter of deterrence.

Moreover, it would literally eliminate crime.

All the data I have seen on capital punishment vs capital crime rates hasn't shown any decrease as a result of execution ? Or are you referring that the graphic nature of a public execution providing the desired result ?

I can't think of an example from history where public capital punishment reduced crime. Most place and times that I can think of where the sort of thing was employed are/were fairly violent times and places.

Capital punishment is no longer used.    It is on the books, but it is rarely carried out where it is on the books.   Even murder rarely results in a death sentence unless their are special circumstances.    Thusly, most stats on the matter are not valuable.

Capital punishment, if applied to life threatening crimes, (some of which I have mentioned), would, in fact, reduce crime, if expediently carried out, if by nothing else reducing the number of violent criminals.

All the data that I have seen suggests that the persons executed have never committed another crime. 100% effective. I will admit that the process should, preferably, employ a bit of care and discretion in the trying and convicting of people and the judicious use of capital sentences.

The only point I differ on is using capital punishment across more crimes and actually following through in a speedy manner, as trials are supposedly speedy.   (No, none of it is very speedy.)

I oppose the death penalty simply because I don't trust the state to get it right 100% of the time.

I have to admit that has the sound of truthyness to it. It is essentially the same as "100 percent of the citizens killed by the government are dead. ".

I just don't understand how people who believe in small limited government, thinks that one of those small and limited powers should be the ability to execute citizens. It's as if we as people need to be repressed. We yearn for it.


Government says you must buy health insurance. The government can't do that. That's against my god given rights.

Government wants to regulate the 2A.    The government can't do that. That's against my god given rights.

Government wants to issue marriage certificates to gay couples.     The government can't do that. That's against my god given rights.

Government wants to execute citizens.   Go right ahead, might we watch?

I guess it all comes down to I don't believe that this BS government we live under has the moral or legal authority to kill citizens for some thing they decide is punishable with death. Do you want an abusisive and oppressive government cause that's how you get an abusive and oppressive government. You vote for it.

Do you honestly trust this government with greater execution powers than they already currently have? They can barely maintain the roads and infrastructure, our schools are litteraly falling apart, our welfare system hands out our money wholesale, we spend more on police and prisons per capita than any civilized country in the world. How can you possibly support giving this inept group which is always made up of the lesser of two evils, expanded capital punishment powers?

Example. Banksters crash the world economy with some shady banking practices which shook up he world markets and also netted them a couple trillion in profits.  Government not only overlooks the reason for the failure but then takes our money to bail them out. Cause they are too big to fail and also to big to prosecute apparently.  Result …We as citizens are left holding the bag and the bill while the perps are sailing in the Mediterranean. Government fix is to make the process to get a loan harder on the citizens, same folks paying the bill to rescue the banks that are too big to fail. So it's hard for me to get all pitchforked up and ready to string up some low level idiot, who's only crime is he was selling crack while carrying a pistol, neither of which should actually be illegal in a free society in my opinion.

Jury's find the person guilty.

I do not feel that my local government is abusive or oppressive. That is who needs to be handling the cases.

IMO the death penalty should be reserved for violent predators. Not thiefs or druggies. Murder, attempted murder, particularly violent malicious assaults, predatory rapes and violent arned robbery.

Examples would be a guy who commits home invasion robberies, tieing the family up and assaulting them. Someone who abducts women and rapes them. Etc. These types of people are vicious predators, statistics be damned they are a threat that needs to be removed.

And don't fool yourself the guy carrying a pistol and crack is 99% of the time an otherwise bad person.

No one, other than you, has suggested that capital punishment would be appropriate in such circumstances.

nevermind...

I might have.  I'll have to check.

In that case, my apoplogies to Mr. Prinkle and I remove myself from any endorsement of that practice.

Guilty!  Ban him!

Oooops... That's me!

Hey I was there along with a disabled army vet. We walked around, tried chatting with folks. You can't have missed me, I'm the guy they interviewed, and the only one with a gun besides the LEO and SS. I was there to see what folks had to say. Same B.S as they always spew. I try to organize counter protests to any anti-gun even in the area. If people don't see us working to defend liberty, how can others be bothered to do so? It's hard enough getting gun owners to sign a pro-gun petition let alone show up to an event during any time/day. But to those that do (and I know some who are way more active than this grad student), I salute you!



Almost. It was in front of the Federal Building here in Louisville, but on the park across the street from it. Walk past those red poles and it's Federal property.



It looks like Moms Demand Action is teaming up with BLM as they are using each others' hashtags and signs.

Or the Mayor's. The only mean looks I got was from the crowd. The security barely glanced at us. My thinking is they know we have weapons, and it's the folks they don't know who have weapons that they should be looking out for.
And like softpoint said, nobody addressed the violence happening mostly in the bad part of town (West End). They listed off names and dates of people shot dead, but never mentioned that they were all in drug-riddled neighborhoods under the supervision of the mayor and police chief there. They blamed "rural" Kentuckians for ruining gun laws in KY and that their voices don't matter. Of course, that was not shown in the media, but I heard it, and a damn shame I didn't record it.

Because "New Accounts are limited to 2000 character posts"



People need to fight, Kentuckians need to defend the gun rights in places like Louisville, even if they are liberal and have problems. If we don't, KY might turn in to CA one day. CA has/had a lot of gun owners, they kept putting up with more and more gun laws, or they left. I'm sure there were other circumstances, but come on, we have popular YouTube gun channels coming from CA and yet CA still is CA. Socialism and restrictions on rights comes incrementally, because they know that they would lose a full on assault. A little here, this feature there, that ammo later on. That is how they work.

While I agree with what you said, I don't understand why you think we should limit the efforts to "places like Louisville". The gun laws are the same there as in the rest of the state and I don't know of any restrictions on guns in the Metro area that are more stringent that any place else. Yes, we need to continue the fight for our gun rights, but it needs to be done in every city and county in Ky. There should be no letup and no passes for even the smallest place, even if you have never been there and have no plans to ever go there. How do you suggest we do that? The one Ky. statewide organization that does that and has been doing that since 1995 is KC3. Are you a member? Have you donated any of your time and/or money?  Have you helped KC3 with any of the lawsuits they have filed against local governments that have violated state gun laws. Did you help KC3 with their lawsuit against UK in the Michael Mitchell case? If you have, then good for you. If not, then how do you expect it to happen? The NRA is great, but their attention is on 50 states and all the territories plus D.C. We need to look out for ourselves. The NRA doesn't understand our laws or our problems or have the manpower to look out over all of that territory and there are places with much worse problems than we have here and those places have more people and more NRA members. Who do you think will get the most attention? If you know of any place that is attacking our gun rights, let KC3 know about it. We can fix those problems.

Double tap.

While I was not around in the gun community during the type of events you mentioned, I am active in the community. I focus on Louisville (and equally so Lexington) because those seem to be the most anti-gun areas in Kentucky. That is where you have large numbers of people, and I never underestimate large numbers of stupid people (read both cities are highly liberal). I also focus on the cities because that is where anti-gun efforts are focused on. Yes all of KY needs to be monitored and the laws need to be enforced, and improved. But the greatest threat, I think, comes from politicians and wealthy donors in the big cities.

poetdante

As to the NRA, yes they have 50 states to monitor, but so do the anti-gun groups. I think the NRA could easily be organizing meetings and events with gun owners, it's not hard to do when you have access to their database of members and list of phone numbers that they call during election seasons. Heck, they have a new app, send out alerts to gun owners for more than "sign this petition and give us money", have "meeting at location A for counter-protest" or "pro-gun rally at local B".

I get the impression that the NRA delegates that to like-minded but not officially linked organizations like KYSRPA or KC3. This seems to be more effective because its locally organized. Its far easier to get a small group to watch their local paper, local TV, and local forums and put the word out locally. If it were NRA national there would be a chain of command that would have to get the info then redistribute it. The top-down approach is how groups like MDA, EveryTown, CSGV, and other Bloomberg backed anti-rights groups are organized.

Right, but the "local" groups that I try and organize rarely have the turnout the MDA does. Sure, it's because we have jobs and responsibilities and are not housewives with more free time or paid "crisis actor" types for the anti-gunners. But it still leaves a message with the community when they see dozens of "moms" in orange and a couple of men open carrying. Despite the bad publicity, a friend who organizes open carry walks in Ohio has had great turn-outs and a very diverse crowd. Maybe being more active and trying to get noticed, rather than simply trying to "rain on the parade" is what I should be aiming for in future events. That said, MDA has been showing up with a handful of people to other groups' (i.e BLM, SURJ, etc) events and getting free media attention that way, and they seem to be partnering up.

What gives you that "impression"?  What do you base it on? Who do you know that is in touch with the NRA about these things on a regular basis? I wish what you said was true, but sorrowfully it is not, in my experience. The NRA usually goes its own way, without any consultations. The constitutional carry bill from last year was a good example. To my knowledge, no local group knew anything about it until it was introduced in the Senate and House of Representatives and became public knowledge. That bill was poorly written by somebody that didn't know squat about existing Ky. law or the traditions of gun ownership in Ky. It was a disaster. It was an embarrassment to the NRA and an embarrassment to the legislators that agreed to sponsor it. They may want to be more careful about doing anything like that again. This situation mostly depends on who it running the show from the NRA's end.

In the past, at times, the NRA has been very helpful, but then new people took over and they didn't think they needed any help. There was lots of interaction on the enhanced preemption bill in 2012 (KRS 65.870) and assistance with fund raising, as well as an amicus curiae brief, during the Michael Mitchell trial, before that. All of those were coordinated with KC3 and each was effective and successful. I can't think of one good thing that happened in the years since. It is all a matter of personnel and personality. They have promised to not make that mistake again, but those promises often get forgotten when personnel changes. We'll see. I suspect the coordination will be up and down, as time passes. I just try to expect nothing, while working and hoping for more help from NRA. If unexpected help is forthcoming, then it is an extra bonus. There are several reasons for this, in my opinion. There are other states that need more help that Ky. Our laws are pretty good, now, but that doesn't mean we should not want more. Those other states have bigger populations than Ky. and more NRA members. The NRA lobbyist for Ky. is assigned to, at least, four other states, too. He doesn't work full time on our problems. Local groups know the problems better, know existing law better, know the politicians involved better and often have a working relationship with those people.

In the final analysis, we are on our own and it is our responsibility to look out for ourselves, just like everything else in life, you can't expect somebody else to take care of you. I could write for an hour about promises of cooperation from the NRA and disappointment when those promises went unfulfilled. After all of that is said, the NRA is the big dog in the room and they can get attention in ways that the locals can not. Right now the dems. are terrified of losing control of the House in Nov. If that happens, we can get some great things done next year. If it doesn't, get ready for the same old disappointments. Here is a good example. Last year, the state Representative from E-town, Tim Moore, had a bill in the House to do away with nearly all "gun free zones" on public property in Ky. The only places that would have remained would have been the court system and detention facilities. The bill had little chance of passing in the democrat controlled House, but the NRA lobbyist didn't even know about the bill and had never met or even talked to that representative, until I got them together and introduced them. Granted, that is what a local should do, but the session was almost over before I got in on the NRA efforts for the year. Things should be better next year, unless they change personnel again. If that happens, it could be back to square one with the NRA.

With the latest meeting of the most prominent anti-gun group in the area having two dozen folks show up to their new members meeting, plus joining BLM, SURJ, and other such groups, I am trying to organize folks around here and on other forums. But out of the 20 messages I sent to the folks who are from Louisville, one replied, and said he wasn't able to be active at all. I fear for the gun-rights that most Kentuckians take for granted. Anyone interested in being part of an active group/club that can show up and tell folks normal people have and carry guns, message me.

softpoint - "Delegate" might have been the wrong choice of word. I had a very clear understanding that state groups like KC3, IGOLD, ISRPA, Buckeye Firearms Assoc., et. al. were doing great work on their own. Where I assumed [and assumed wrong!] was that there was a conscious action from the NRA to focus on national issues and let these local groups handle it. I shouldn't have made that leap without doing my homework. Those groups came about because of a hole LEFT where the NRA wasn't acting or wasn't effective rather than an implicit or explicit decision for one org to focus in one area.

green_bullet - PM inbound