Now we have an attack on private sales.
HB 367  Here is the summary (I hope we can trust this one):

Create a new section of KRS Chapter 237 to prohibit a person from selling a firearm, rifle, or shotgun at a flea market or gun show to any purchaser, unless the purchaser is licensed to carry a concealed weapon within the state of Kentucky or is licensed to carry a concealed weapon by a state that has entered into a reciprocity agreement with the state of Kentucky; prohibit a seller from conducting business with a purchaser who does not comply with the provisions of this section; require that the seller complete a form, approved by the Kentucky State Police, that identifies and confirms that the parties comply with the requirements of this section; require that information collected on this form be confidential and only available to a law enforcement officer of the Commonwealth when in the discharge of his or her duties; specify that this section does not apply to any seller who engages in the sale or transfer of less than five firearms, rifles, or shotguns in any calendar year at flea markets and gun shows within the state of Kentucky or to the sale or transfer of a firearm, rifle, or shotgun between spouses, children, or stepchildren within the same immediate family; provide that is a violation of this section for any person engaged in the sale or transfer of a firearm, rifle, or shotgun to leave the premises of the event in question solely to avoid compliance with the provisions of this section; require that a violation of this section shall be Class B misdemeanor.

Mary Lou Marzian is probably the most antigun member of the General Assembly. She represents the Highlands area of Louisville. Once, during a committee vote on a progun bill, I heard her say, "In order to preserve my 'F' rating with the NRA, I vote 'No' ".

Rep. Marzian has also introduced HB 366, concerning the marketing of guns to children.

Create a new section of KRS Chapter 237 requiring the office of the Attorney General to promulgate regulations related to the marketing, advertising, labeling, distributing, and sale of firearms designed to appeal to children; prohibit the sale of firearms designed with cartoon characters or designed specifically to appeal to children; forbid the marketing, advertising, or promotion of firearms designed specifically to appeal to children; provide that this section does not apply to BB, paintball, or pellet-firing air guns; enumerate that a violation of this section is considered an unfair, misleading, or deceptive act or practice in violation of KRS 367.170; provide that the remedies and powers given to the Attorney General under KRS 367.170 and the penalties under KRS 367.990 related to consumer protection apply to violations of the section; state that this section does not limit the powers and duties of the Attorney General under any other provision of law; and amend KRS 237.020 to conform.

Yup, she made that comment last year.  It was in the committee meeting for the bill that would allow domestic abuse victims to get a temporary carry permit so they could protect themselves.  She later on offered an amendment to the bill that voted against wanting immunity for the person who took out the EPO if they ended up shooting the person violating the EPO.  

If Marzian is the most antigun member that we have then we are actually doing very well.  First being an F rated anti-gun Democrat, but she still wanted immunity for EPO holders if they killed someone in self defense.  There are a lot state where even the Republican's wouldn't support that.  The private sales bill is something that you would expect Republican's in Washington State or other states turning anti-gun to propose as a last ditch effort.  Instead of a background check required for all private sales, her bill only applies at flea markets and gun shows and only if the person is selling 5 or more firearms in a year.  That would exempt 99% of law abiding gun owners from that requirement.  The only people caught up in it would be people who should really have an FFL in the first place or shady characters moving firearms.  I'm not saying I agree with the bills but if that is the worst that gets proposed then we are pretty lucky.  

If should would have put in language that actually addressed the problem, instead of playing on emotions, she could move her bills further.  For example, the marketing guns to kids.  I believe there should be clear distinctions between toy guns and real guns.  The manufacturers should take it upon themselves to make it very clear.  Marzian's bill would ban anything with a color or drawing that would appeal to kids.  That goes way to far.  The Chipmunk rifle is one that would be banned, because it has a chipmunk logo.

The gunshow and flea market bill I really don't have a problem with because in most cases it would only affect those doing something borderline illegal anyway.  But it opens the door to future restrictions, is unnecessary, and will not stop any criminal activity.  The criminals aren't going to fill out the forms when buying or selling firearms.  All the federal firearm charges will be higher charges than not filling out paperwork.  So people moving guns aren't going to be bothered to comply.

Both of these bills are ripe for abuse. Too many open spaces in both of them. Who knows how they would be interpreted in a few years? She doesn't define a flea market or gunshow. They could declare any meeting of two or more people where a gun was displayed as a gunshow. Other states have done similar things. What about "Court Days", is that a gun show? What about a yard sale, is that a flea market?  If there are written records of private sales plus 4473's at dealers, that equals de facto gun registration. No thanks.

I agree. I have big problems with this bill.

 
I agree with you.  That's why I said "it opens the door to future restrictions, is unnecessary, and will not stop any criminal activity."

I was just trying to put some perspective on our most anti-gun legislator compared to what other states are dealing with.  Take Washington State for example.  The anti-gun people created a ballot measure to ban all private sales even for a single firearm transfer.  It passed there.  Oregon legislators are planning a bill do to the same.  That is what the anti-gunners would love to see in every state.  To them it is about treating all gun owners as potential criminals and trying to legislate control over them.  In contrast Marzian's bill at least has the premise that she is only going after criminal activity or border line criminal activity.  I can appreciate that approach versus going for a 100% complete ban on all private sales like legislators in other states are.  It makes me think that she might actually care about stopping criminal activity instead of controlling all gun owners. That said it is still a misguided bill, people breaking the federal firearm trafficking laws are not going to lose any sleep for failing to fill out a form in Kentucky.  So the law will not have any effect on gun trafficking.

HB 428
Amend KRS 196.037 to allow Department of Corrections Internal Affairs officers to have the powers of peace officers while carrying out their duties. Amend KRS 186.412 to remove requirement that offenders released by DOC present a birth certificate in order to obtain a drivers license. Amend KRS 237.110 to allow current and retired Department of Corrections officers who have completed firearms training to be exempt from training requirements for permit to carry a concealed deadly weapon. Amend KRS 441.064 to ensure that the governing body of local correctional facilities are properly notified. Amend KRS 441.115 to require that jail employees receive training on communicable diseases. Amend KRS 441.045 to allow the release from custody to receive medical treatment of a person in the custory of the Department of Corrections who is placed in a local jail.

HB 421
Amend KRS 237.120 to require the Department of Criminal Justice Training to review and update all in-service training materials every 3 years.

HB 420
Amend KRS 237.122 to allow firearms instructor trainers or certified firearms instructors to charge any amount for applicant training courses, rather than capping the amount at $75.

The SENATE STANDING COMMITTEE ON VETERANS, MILITARY AFFAIRS, AND PUBLIC PROTECTION is discussing these bills today, all are CCDW related.  SB 66, SB 67, SB 89 and SB 114
 

For those interested video coverage of the committee meeting can be view here.  http://www.ket.org/legislature/archives/?nola=WGAOS+016046&session=wgaos+016


SB 89 passed out of committee.  It allows the state, counties, and cities to sell an officer's firearm directly to them instead of requiring it going through an FFL


SB 67 passed out of committee.  It had a substitute bill introduced.  The text isn't available yet but from the reading of the bill it sounds they replace "National Rifle Association" with any instructor certified by any "national organization.  It also adds a new requirement that the course must cover Kentucky state laws on the use of deadly force.  That is already included in the current training, they just wanted to specifically call it out since the law would let organizations outside Kentucky certify instructors.


SB 66 and SB 114 were not discussed.

HB 404, HB 420, HB 421, and HB 428 have been added to the summary page.

New bill SB 160 by R. Jones II.  It removes the gun cleaning in class clause that several other bills do.  It requires a firearm instructor trainer to have conducted 3 training courses per year, with a minimum of 5 students, and for 3 years in a row.  It also reduces the price caps for instructor training and CCDW applicant training.

Softpoint, what is your take on this bill given your connection to CCDW instructors?  The instructors I know all complain teaching the classes really aren't worth it unless you have 10 students.  This would let them raise their prices but higher prices will further reduce the number of students.  This is the second bill introduced that would eliminate the CCDW training fee cap.

Just to recap the votes on firearm legislation from 2014.  Here are the legislators who voted against various firearm bills.




 

Most of these proposals are nice.   Most are not must have .   There is one that is a must have, SB60.   Most people do not understand how critical it is.    The current law is used to prevent people from carrying in places like Turfway park.    

Right now, I don't go any place that sells alcohol by the drink.   The plan is to keep decent people out.  

SB60 is a must have.

Making CDWL  easier and easier to get is nice.   But, if you want one, it is already available.   Cops paying for their gun directly is nice, but is not a must have as they can already buy through an FFL.   Like most other changes, these are not must have changes to the laws.

I don't understand the problem with Turfway Park. Isn't Turfway Park private property? As such they can ban weapons whether they sell alcohol or not. Current law only makes it illegal to carry in the "room" where alcohol is sold. Also, the law doesn't apply in a bona fide restaurant. I understand your frustrations with not being able to carry in Turfway, but I don't see how a change in the law would help. It sounds like you have done more thinking on this than I have. Explain this to me a little more, please.  

 
SB 60 was a bill from last year.  Today is the last day for Senate to add bills and so far a bill similar to the 2014 SB 60 has not been introduced.  I don't expect one to be filed.

There is nothing to explain.   It's a bar.    It doesn't make sense.   Do not expect me to explain that which makes no sense.

1)   15 years ago I had the super knowledgeable and wonderful lady at the state over the CDWL program (now retired) explain it to me.  

2) That was after a Boone county sheriff tried to arrest me for carrying concealed outside on the grounds.    No, I did not do anything.   Yes, I was restrained and searched.   Why?   He thought I was carrying.    I was not at that time.

You are ignoring what I said from the beginning.    It is problem a that 99.99% don't even know.  

If anyone wants specifics, strap on your concealed gun, find a sheriff at Turfway,  tell him you are carrying, and report your findings.    Going into the research, please document the deputy's name.

So, you expect a new state law will fix all of this unexplained and inexplicable misunderstanding of and ignoring of the existing state law? Once again, isn't Turfway Park private property? In any case, SB 60 was last year and it passed the(Republican controlled) Senate then could not get a hearing in the (Democrate controlled) House. There is no SB 60 this year.

I did not realize you thought the situation was fine and dandy.

1 Yes, I know it will.    Pull the power of that one magic bullet from the state, and a LOT changes.

2 I never said otherwise.  

3 So.   BLOT :  Nothing changed.  

4 Nothing else, significant, is changing this year.

No, I don't think the situation is "fine and dandy", but the fact that carry is prohibited by a private property owner is far from the biggest problem we gun owners face and I doubt that the General Assembly will ever tell them that they can't do it. The rights of a property owner are just as important as our gun rights, IMO. My point was that if they are ignoring the law (and I can't figure out from anything that you have written what law that would be), they would probably ignore any new law that was passed. If I thought that Turfway Park was illegally prohibiting guns from their property, I would do just as you suggest i.e. put on a gun and openly carry into Turfway Park and it wouldn't take me 15 years to do it. I look for these kinds of violations. I actively seek them out. I ask people to find them for me. For the life of me, I can't see what law is being broken here or what new law might fix it. I am not criticing you or trying to insult you. I am just asking you to explain what you want fixed and how you think it might be fixed, but you haven't given much information.

Maybe it will spread.   It might as well.  I have not been  back to Turfway sense that pig searched me.    I have since cut out going to other "bars".    I don't go to any places that serve alcohol, such as stadiums including the Yum Center, except that which is specified in the law as an exception, restaurants.    That exception could disappear someday.   I could adjust to going to only restaurants that do not serve alcohol.    Other than wanting to see things change in a positive way, I guess I don't have any skin in the game.  

I know BUSINESS rights should NOT override basic human rights.    Disarming people is similar to demanding sex to keep a job .    Businesses do and should have restrictions on how they operate.     "Their business" does not and should not  equate to "Their rules" in an absolute sense.    The most basic of all human rights should not be ignored.

But, it doesn't matter.      Not carrying in  one of the most reasonable places is nuts.    I leave such places to the nuts.     LOL!

Hey, I am cool with it all.   I am especially real cool on all the pointless  political games played with my rights and life.       This year's  jumble of  legal gambling and deal making is full of useless fluff.

I'll get out of this thread and leave it to every one else.    I know it is in my best interest to let it go, drop it, and not look into it again.   I get it.  

Update

We are finally seeing some movement of various bills.






SB 55 - http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/15RS/SB55.htm



Had passed in the Senate and was sent to the House committee.






SB 67 - http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/15RS/SB67.htm



Passed the Senate 37-0  to House and assigned to the Judiciary committee.









HB 91 - J. Kay, J. Miller

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/15RS/HB91.htm



Passed House with lots of opposition and amendments.  Who new charity banquets were a controversial issue.






Nay Votes



Bunch, Carney, Collins, Crimm, Duplessis, Hale, Harmon, Hoover, Howard, Imes, K. King, Lee, Linder, Mayfield, Rowland, Shell, Steele, Stewart, Tipton, Upchurch, York.






Not voting:



Couch, Coursey, Horlander, M.J. King, Miles, Santoro, Turner, Westrom, Wuchner.












HB 428 - B. Yonts



http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/15RS/HB428.htm



Out of committee with committee substitute, to be voted on 2/27.







 

RotaryJihad any insight on why HB 91, an NRA sponsored bipartisan bill, was opposed by so many Republicans?  One guy voting against it proudly lists he is a member of the NRA and is an an NRA instructor.  Are they just the religious types that view any type of gaming as "sinful gambling" even though it is really just an entertaining way to donate to charity?

Good question, let me reach out to my NRA sources and find out. This is somewhat distressing.

If I had to guess it was listed as "charitable gaming" and not presented as "charitable gaming for the NRA events" because that would have bogged it down.

The following bills have seen some movement this week.  Check the first post for their updated status. They are SB 55, SB 89, SB 114, HB 91, and HB 428.

lWe are seeing a little history being made this year. On Monday, both HB 120 and HB 13 had discharge petitions filed to get them moving. This is a very rare occurrence. A discharge petition is a direct confrontation between a bills sponsor and a committee chair and the leadership of the chamber(House or Senate). It happens when a committee is not taking any action on a bill and a sponsor wants his (or in this case, her) bill heard. The "discharge petition" discharges the committee and the petitioner takes the bill themselves. I don't think this will accomplish anything. Its too late for these bills to get passed this year, discharge petition or no. On Tuesday both bills were "posted" in committee, though.This is just a "temper tantrum" and a prelude to next year. I suspect there will be some behind the scenes ass kicking over this. Stumbo doesn't like his people getting out of line and embarrassing him like this. I am sure there will be a price to pay for this affront.
Here are links to both bills:

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/15RS/HB120.htm

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/15RS/HB13.htm

I'm sure we'd all like to see these bills passed.
.

Thanks for explaining the discharge petitions.  I was wondering what it meant.  From what I've read the 11th was the last day of the session other than to override vetoes.  The snow really screwed up the schedule this year and not much got done.
 

       2015 Update



Four of the bills were passed by both houses and sent to the governor.  Two of the bills passed one side and were set to be voted on in the other but were apparently abandoned as time ran out.






Sent to Governor













House passed 96-0















Senate passed 37-0



House passed 89-5

















Senate passed 33-0



  Not Voting: J. Carroll, Gibson, Humphries, Smith



House passed 90-2  






  Not Voting: Coursey, Decesare, Glenn, Rand, Riner, Santoro, D. Watkins, Wayne  













Senate passed 33-3;



  Nay: Embry, Givens, Robinson



  Abstained: 0



  Not Voting: Kerr



House passed 70-21


















 

I know that HB 428 passed the house but did it make it out of the senate?  Was it one of the bills not voted on due to lack of time?


Just found out it was one of the bills that has not been passed.  There was no issue with it but just ran out of time.  When they return for two days in later this month there is still a chance to pass it.  Really no one is opposed to it that will make any difference.

SB 114 and HB 428 are the two bills that were basically ready for the last floor vote.  Reading up on the Capitol Notes it says there are bills the lawmakers hope to see passed when they return on the 23rd and 24th.  So it sounds like they can pass them but I don't know if they are scheduled to look at those 2 bills.

HB91 passing is huge.

Thank you to anyone and everyone who wrote in about this issue.

How so?    

OK, huge for a core group of people I guess. The Friends of NRA now has an easier time raising money at banquets once HB 91 is signed.

EDIT - I'm at a good keyboard now.

The Friends of the NRA, local churches, and other groups raise money at charitable banquets. These groups are all 501c3 charitable organizations. The gaming commission changed the rules so we couldn't do things like bucket games or certain types of raffles despite these games being fair and run for years. HB 91 fixes this problem. It fixes the law.

SB 89 was signed by the Governor today.

HB 91 and SB 67 have both been signed by the Governor. SB 114 only needs a vote on the Senate floor to pass. Today is the last day of the session. They are spitting out bills very rapidly, now. A lot of bills will make it out today and a lot will fall just short of passing. All in all, there weren't any major gun bills this year. Just like last year we got table scraps. Just enough to make it look like the are helping us, but no real advancement. Of course, the good part is that they didn't hurt us, either. The really bad bills SB 14, SB 128, HB 278, HB 366 and HB 367 never got off the ground. Not one of these terrible bills got a hearing in committee or managed to pick up even one cosponsor. What really bothers me is that Ky. has historically had some of the best gun laws in the country. Now, some other states are moving past us with permitless carry, school carry, college campus carry. A lot of these states are not traditionally gun friendly, but are just becoming so. We don't get hurt in Frankfort, but we're not making much progress, either. We haven't had a really important bill since 2012 when our preemption law was amended. Our legislators spend a entire legislative session arguing about the price of a CCDW class and our school children are unprotected. Well, next year is a longer session, 60 days, we only got 28 this year. Hopefully, it will be better.

Yes.   It does stink.  

School carry would be nice.   But, for most people, that is for a limited time in life.    Bar carry covers one's adults life... beyond traditional bars.      The bottom line is we really do need improvements.     There's LOTS of room for improvements.

Instead, we argue over what?    Needle exchanges for druggies?    Lighter sentencing and more programs for druggies like heroin users?    Or, how about bathrooms for tranny ... kids?    

Seriously?   Really?    This... "stuff"  is what we get?  

What does 2015 look like in terms of state elections?

The only thing I've seen about the governors race so far are annoying ads for Hal Heiner building name recognition.

Are any anti-gun representatives running in contested races?

EDIT - Looks like only executive offices is that right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky_elections,_2015

The majority of the House and Senate races were last year, and there was little or no change in the General Assembly. We have three strong pro gun candidates for Governor, Matt Bevin, James Comer and Will T. Scott. Most of us remember Bevin for his run against Mitch McConnell in the Senate. Comber is presently Secretary of Agriculture. Scott resigned his position as a Justice on the Ky. Supreme Court to run for Governor. Scott has a Concealed Carry license and is reported to carry when he is on the bench. He has been very outspoken in his support for the RKBA for years. What we don't need is a anti gun, Jefferson Co. RINO like Heiner or another liberal Democrat. Governors don't make laws, they can just veto them after they are passed. That is a rare occurrence. The big problem is in the House of Representatives. There will be no big shift in the attitude about new gun laws until Speaker Stumbo and his crowd are out of power. They run the show. They decide which bills go to which committees. They decide whether a bill gets a hearing at all. It doesn't matter if 90% of the members of the House would vote for a bill, if these 7 people oppose it, it never gets heard.That sometimes works in our favor. There were some really bad bills in the House this year and those bills were not allowed a hearing, by these same people. The only way to make things better is to demand they make them better. I doubt we could ever beat Stumbo in an election, he is very popular in his district, but letters, emails and phone calls do make a difference, but not this time of year. That is for next winter, just before the 2016 session. The Senate is not a problem. We can get sponsors for almost any type of gun bill, but what's the point? They will die when they get to the house.

Well, the Ky. General Assembly adjourned today. The 2015 legislative session is over. SB 67 and SB 89 were to only gun bills passed. SB 67 is about allowing NRA training to qualify as CCDW training and SB 89 was about allowing state employees to buy their old weapons when those weapons are taken out of service. None of the bills about removing the $75 cap on CCDW courses made it. The maximum amount will stay as before. Once again we got table scraps, but none of the really bad bills got anywhere. The worst of them could not attract even one cosponsor and none of them got committee hearings. We are safe from the lawmakers for the next 9 months.

you have to remember state law trumps federal law. its just a matter of who has enough balls to go to court over it.



 

Sorry, this is just not true.

The "Supremacy Clause" is the provision in Article Six, Clause 2 of the United States Constitution that establishes the United States Constitution, federal statutes, and treaties as "the supreme law of the land."

State law is the "little brother" to federal law.