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Posted: 5/18/2014 11:39:00 AM EDT
last week at work a fellow had his car broken into and his ccw was stolen,as a result of this the hr office has told everybody that no weapons are allowed on company property or in vehicles on company property,aint this illegal?of course im following this new rule
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Posted: 5/18/2014 12:52:32 PM EDT
[#1]
In KY the employer cannot restrict firearms locked in private vehicles parked on company property.
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Posted: 5/18/2014 7:40:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In KY the employer cannot restrict firearms locked in private vehicles parked on company property. This is correct and is so stated in the KRS. |
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Posted: 5/18/2014 9:03:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Email HR with the following KRS statute. 237.106b Right of employees and other persons to possess firearms in vehicle -- Employer liable for denying right -- Exceptions. (1) No person, including but not limited to an employer, who is the owner, lessee, or occupant of real property shall prohibit any person who is legally entitled to possess a firearm from possessing a firearm, part of a firearm, ammunition, or ammunition component in a vehicle on the property. (2) A person, including but not limited to an employer, who owns, leases, or otherwise occupies real property may prevent a person who is prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a firearm or ammunition from possessing a firearm or ammunition on the property. (3) A firearm may be removed from the vehicle or handled in the case of self-defense, defense of another, defense of property, or as authorized by the owner, lessee, or occupant of the property. (4) An employer that fires, disciplines, demotes, or otherwise punishes an employee who is lawfully exercising a right guaranteed by this section and who is engaging in conduct in compliance with this statute shall be liable in civil damages. An employee may seek and the court shall grant an injunction against an employer who is violating the provisions of this section when it is found that the employee is in compliance with the provisions of this section. (5) The provisions of this section shall not apply to any real property: (a) Owned, leased, or occupied by the United States government, upon which the possession or carrying of firearms is prohibited or controlled; (b) Of a detention facility as defined in KRS 520.010; or (c) Where a section of the Kentucky Revised Statutes specifically prohibits possession or carrying of firearms on the property. Effective:July 12, 2006 History: Created 2006 Ky. Acts ch.b240, sec.b8, effective July 12, 2006.
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Posted: 5/19/2014 10:17:14 PM EDT
[#4]
I believe the Supreme Court ruled on it as well. I may be wrong but I believe is had to do with your personal vehicle be an area with a reasonable expectation of privacy and can't be regulated, so restricting it would be a violation of you rights. It may have been a state court ruling though it's been a long semester of reading case laws
 . I actually had my gun stolen from school property last year (college) and they couldn't do anything about it then either. Bottom line is it's illegal for an employer to say that and you should say something to your employer either because you like them and want to protect them from litigation or you don't like them and they need to know they're stupid. Or you can allow yourself to get caught and sue.
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Posted: 9/9/2014 2:28:11 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
last week at work a fellow had his car broken into and his ccw was stolen,as a result of this the hr office has told everybody that no weapons are allowed on company property or in vehicles on company property,aint this illegal?of course im following this new rule Does anybody know the outcome of this? Does anybody know who the employer was/is? Has the employer backed off this? If it has not been fixed, I know people who can and will help. The employees will not have to be involved and their names will never be used. |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 12:27:14 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does anybody know the outcome of this? Does anybody know who the employer was/is? Has the employer backed off this? If it has not been fixed, I know people who can and will help. The employees will not have to be involved and their names will never be used. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
last week at work a fellow had his car broken into and his ccw was stolen,as a result of this the hr office has told everybody that no weapons are allowed on company property or in vehicles on company property,aint this illegal?of course im following this new rule Does anybody know the outcome of this? Does anybody know who the employer was/is? Has the employer backed off this? If it has not been fixed, I know people who can and will help. The employees will not have to be involved and their names will never be used. No but I'm tagging for updates. I do hope the employer has backed off. |
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Posted: 9/15/2014 11:02:36 AM EDT
[#7]
sorry for the late reply i have computer issues going on right now,anyway for the time being they are mum on the subject,i believe someone besides me has said something because all the signs they put up are gone now (actually gone in one day) so thats a good thing.HOWEVER i am waiting for it to come up again,i have a copy of the laws on my phone and i will raise hell about it,and if they fire me i will sue there pants off of them,
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Posted: 9/15/2014 1:36:17 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
sorry for the late reply i have computer issues going on right now,anyway for the time being they are mum on the subject,i believe someone besides me has said something because all the signs they put up are gone now (actually gone in one day) so thats a good thing.HOWEVER i am waiting for it to come up again,i have a copy of the laws on my phone and i will raise hell about it,and if they fire me i will sue there pants off of them, Nice win! Keep'em honest. |
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Posted: 9/15/2014 5:39:11 PM EDT
[#9]
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i believe someone besides me has said something because all the signs they put up are gone now (actually gone in one day) so thats a good thing., That is pretty quick, I would bet that someone higher up is likely on your (our) side... |
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Posted: 9/15/2014 7:33:44 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is pretty quick, I would bet that someone higher up is likely on your (our) side... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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i believe someone besides me has said something because all the signs they put up are gone now (actually gone in one day) so thats a good thing., That is pretty quick, I would bet that someone higher up is likely on your (our) side... Or an arfcommer?... Although more likely someone higher up shat themselves when they saw the signs... and then had a few words with HR about following state laws. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 1:34:58 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
sorry for the late reply i have computer issues going on right now,anyway for the time being they are mum on the subject,i believe someone besides me has said something because all the signs they put up are gone now (actually gone in one day) so thats a good thing.HOWEVER i am waiting for it to come up again,i have a copy of the laws on my phone and i will raise hell about it,and if they fire me i will sue there pants off of them, Will you tell us who the employer is, so we can keep an eye on them? |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 9:12:26 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does anybody know the outcome of this? Does anybody know who the employer was/is? Has the employer backed off this? If it has not been fixed, I know people who can and will help. The employees will not have to be involved and their names will never be used. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
last week at work a fellow had his car broken into and his ccw was stolen,as a result of this the hr office has told everybody that no weapons are allowed on company property or in vehicles on company property,aint this illegal?of course im following this new rule Does anybody know the outcome of this? Does anybody know who the employer was/is? Has the employer backed off this? If it has not been fixed, I know people who can and will help. The employees will not have to be involved and their names will never be used. IM me more info please? |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 6:11:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IM me more info please? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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last week at work a fellow had his car broken into and his ccw was stolen,as a result of this the hr office has told everybody that no weapons are allowed on company property or in vehicles on company property,aint this illegal?of course im following this new rule Does anybody know the outcome of this? Does anybody know who the employer was/is? Has the employer backed off this? If it has not been fixed, I know people who can and will help. The employees will not have to be involved and their names will never be used. IM me more info please? IM me too, please.... I had an issue with an employer and was searched - both personal and company vehicles along with my person. With Boone county Deputies, HR, Corp Security, Union rep, Supervisor and all the guys I worked with watching...Made me feel like a felon, when in fact I am an MP. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 10:09:20 AM EDT
[#14]
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IM me too, please.... I had an issue with an employer and was searched - both personal and company vehicles along with my person. With Boone county Deputies, HR, Corp Security, Union rep, Supervisor and all the guys I worked with watching...Made me feel like a felon, when in fact I am an MP. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
last week at work a fellow had his car broken into and his ccw was stolen,as a result of this the hr office has told everybody that no weapons are allowed on company property or in vehicles on company property,aint this illegal?of course im following this new rule Does anybody know the outcome of this? Does anybody know who the employer was/is? Has the employer backed off this? If it has not been fixed, I know people who can and will help. The employees will not have to be involved and their names will never be used. IM me more info please? IM me too, please.... I had an issue with an employer and was searched - both personal and company vehicles along with my person. With Boone county Deputies, HR, Corp Security, Union rep, Supervisor and all the guys I worked with watching...Made me feel like a felon, when in fact I am an MP. Did they have a warrant? Probable cause? Did they find anything? What did you do about it? |
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Posted: 9/19/2014 1:51:30 AM EDT
[#15]
No reason for IM's, I want everybody to see this and know. If you have specific issues, you can use IM to contact me. The Ky. Concealed Carry Coalition (KC3) has filed lawsuits against 14 local government agencies in the last 18 months.All of those suits were settled in our favor. Dozens of other local government agencies folded under threats of lawsuits and changed whatever illegal policies they had. KC3 was responsible for getting all the "NO GUNS" signs taken down from Louisville Airport and Nothern Ky. Airport. KC3 furnished the attorney for Michael Mitchell's lawsuit against UK, three years ago. KC3 is responsible for the new preemption law passed in 2012. Just today, I got an email from the Gateway District Health Dept. saying that they would remove all of their "NO GUNS" signs on the Bath County, Menifee Co., Rowan Co. and Morgan Co. Health Depts. KC3 has gotten dozens of libraries, fire districts, TARK, Lextrans, Louisville Water Co., Frankfort Transit, numerous city and county parks all have complied with the law, because KC3 threatened them with lawsuits and they knew they couldn't win. More to the point at hand, several local governments have stopped prohibiting their employees from carrying guns at work. No Ky. public employer can legally prohibit an employee from carrying at work, with only a very few exceptions, notably detention facilities or when transporting prisoners. I personally dealt with this with the Frankfort Fire Dept. They no longer prohibit city firefighters and EMT's from carrying at work, They even installed lock boxes on their vehicles, in case the firefighter had to go into places where it would be unsafe to carry, buts it is the firefighter's choise not the government's. Louisville's Metropolitan Sewer district removed all their "NO GUNS' signs when confronted by members of KC3. This has gotten too long and I'll have to break it into two posts.
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Posted: 9/19/2014 1:59:00 AM EDT
[#16]
This has been going on all over the state. Lawsuits were filed as far west as Paducah and as far east as Pikeville. I open carried into every Bardstown City Council meeting for over six months and talked about their numerous illegal city ordinances, until they finally changed them. I could go on like this for an hour. The short of this is KC3 has and will take on violations of Ky. gun laws when they find them. No one who violates the guns law is exempt, private or government. The government violators are just more numerous and easier to prove, since they operate in the open and are covered by open records laws.. Right now our biggest problem is finding new violators. They are getting harder and harder to find. The low hanging fruit has all been picked. Our members scout out these violation but they can't be everywhere. Often, these thing go undetected for years because nobody speaks up.
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Posted: 9/19/2014 8:53:11 AM EDT
[#17]
I had no idea KC3 existed, awesome work guys.
Happy to hear you're keeping at it even though the easy to find cases have been won. Got a website or something? How can I stay informed and help? |
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Posted: 9/19/2014 11:32:50 AM EDT
[#18]
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I had no idea KC3 existed, awesome work guys. Happy to hear you're keeping at it even though the easy to find cases have been won. Got a website or something? How can I stay informed and help? http://kc3.com/ |
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Posted: 9/19/2014 8:42:52 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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I had no idea KC3 existed, awesome work guys. Happy to hear you're keeping at it even though the easy to find cases have been won. Got a website or something? How can I stay informed and help? http://kc3.com/ And https://www.facebook.com/KyConcealedCarryCoalition. KC3 has been around since 1995, when it was formed to get a concealed carry law passed in KY. Over the years it has morphed into a statewide, grass roots, general gun rights advocacy group. The enhanced preemption law from 2012 (now KRS 65.870 was our bill). HB 127 (the airport bill from last year that went nowhere) was our bill. We could do a lot more, with more members, more help and more money. Sorry, to take up so much space with my rants. Now, what was the name of that company that wants to ban guns in the parking lot? |
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Posted: 9/21/2014 4:03:31 PM EDT
[#20]
also heard toyota is telling new hires and temps no weapons allowed because of the free trade agreement ,i called BS, free trade does not cover that,only taxs and tariffs
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Posted: 9/21/2014 10:09:51 PM EDT
[#21]
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also heard toyota is telling new hires and temps no weapons allowed because of the free trade agreement ,i called BS, free trade does not cover that,only taxs and tariffs My understanding of that situation, although very limited and not based on any firsthand information, is that Toyota claimed they could prohibit guns in the parking lot because they were a "Foriegn Trade Zone", whatever that is. Lots of complaints and they backed down, but like I said, I don't know anything official. We used to get complaints about it all the time, but nothing in a couple of years. We never took any action on it. It just fixed itself, I think. Employees said the signs had come down and I haven't heard anything more about it in a few years. If that is not true and you have any current info, let me know.. |
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Posted: 9/21/2014 11:15:02 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And https://www.facebook.com/KyConcealedCarryCoalition. KC3 has been around since 1995, when it was formed to get a concealed carry law passed in KY. Over the years it has morphed into a statewide, grass roots, general gun rights advocacy group. The enhanced preemption law from 2012 (now KRS 65.870 was our bill). HB 127 (the airport bill from last year that went nowhere) was our bill. We could do a lot more, with more members, more help and more money. Sorry, to take up so much space with my rants. Now, what was the name of that company that wants to ban guns in the parking lot? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I had no idea KC3 existed, awesome work guys. Happy to hear you're keeping at it even though the easy to find cases have been won. Got a website or something? How can I stay informed and help? http://kc3.com/ And https://www.facebook.com/KyConcealedCarryCoalition. KC3 has been around since 1995, when it was formed to get a concealed carry law passed in KY. Over the years it has morphed into a statewide, grass roots, general gun rights advocacy group. The enhanced preemption law from 2012 (now KRS 65.870 was our bill). HB 127 (the airport bill from last year that went nowhere) was our bill. We could do a lot more, with more members, more help and more money. Sorry, to take up so much space with my rants. Now, what was the name of that company that wants to ban guns in the parking lot? Having served in a very effective gun rights organization in Michigan I know where you are coming from as far as needing members and funding. That organization was formed in 1996 with 8 people. In the late 90s they went from a few hundred members, all volunteer, to having thousands of members and paid staff in 2001. There are several reasons you have membership and funding issues. Unlike Michigan there is no general sense of urgency on gun issues. That is because less than 10% of the Democrats will make anti-gun votes. Everyone assumes no gun control will be passed and they do nothing. The second is the how the gun right groups themselves function. I don't know if it is inexperience or people just don't care but the level they operate on is amateur at best. It sounds like KC3 is turning into a better organization than it was but when I attended one of your meetings back in 2002. I left completely disappointed. Everyone there was scared to take any action because they didn't want negative press. They were scared of the liberals and the liberal media.  Michigan is run mostly by liberals and unions. Compare that to a couple liberals in Louisville and Lexington. To see the gun rights activists so scared to do anything was sad. The meeting turned out to be not much more than a bunch of old men complaining about various things they had no desire to take action on. If the environment with that organization has changed please let me know and I will give KC3 another look.Speaking of giving KC3 or any gun group a look, your online presence is pathetic. Again, that is just me being blunt trying to address a major problem and not a personal attack on anyone or the organization as a whole. Google "Kentucky Gun Rights". Is KC3 listed on the first page of results? Nope. Is KC3 listed in the first 10 pages? Nope. How are people supposed to know anything about you when Google can't even find you? You listed a facebook page and someone posted KC3.com link. I saw the KC3.com site and thought "Is that it?". Where the registration to sign up for your email newsletter? There isn't one. I'm sure or hope you at least email members but you should let non-members sign up for news as well. There is member information but there should also be community information. KC3 fails almost completely on the community aspect. Guess what, you can't grow a grass roots organization when you don't focus on the community. Events? Do you have any? All I see is an annual meeting. I'm not a member so I would never show up. Do you at least have monthly meetings open to the public? Why aren't they listed on your website? Pictures of past events? A statement from the Chairman of the Board? All these are lacking and they are key things for connecting with the community. Type in "Michigan Gun Rights". You will find the organization I was a part of is the top entry on page 1. The basic fundamental steps of running an organization are not being done by any of the organizations in Kentucky. You started a year before the Michigan group and after 19 years you operating at the level the Michigan group was at their 3 year mark. If this information upsets members of KC3 then I still have no interest in your organization. If it motivates members and they want to finally take their organization to another level send me an IM. I developed the Michigan groups website back in the day and managed it for several years. I saw them grow and what it took to take it to that level. One goal I have is to either start a Kentucky group that will be that effective or at least work with one that wants to be that effective. |
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Posted: 9/22/2014 10:44:32 PM EDT
[#23]
I agree with almost everything you have said. Ky. gun owners have had it so good for so long they don't take the matter seriously. All the other states have good gun laws, too, but they let them slip away by not being vigilant. I am truly sorry that KC3 has not met all of your expectations. It hasn't met mine, either. So, a few years ago, I decided to get to work and change some things. It sounds like you chose a different response.
The website was hacked during the Mitchell case. Donations were being diverted to some website in Nigeria. It had to be taken down, completely.We had one person after another "volunteer" to build another one. None of them ever did anything. During the same period of time we had 3 presidents resign, in a two year period. 2 of them, not only as president, but from the organization completely, then a vice president died. Most organizations could not stay in existence under these conditions. KC3 has had periods where nothing was done. Internal disputes paralyzed the organization. The situations you described, where those in charge were afraid to act, were common. Disputes arose over the name. A lot of our members thought that KC3 should concentrate, exclusively, on concealed carry issues. Well, I don't know how to make a case for concealed carry without open carry as a starting point. I've been open carrying for over 50 years. I only started concealed carry 18 years ago. I'm still not used to the new carry style. We lost several members over that argument. Good riddance, they didn't want to do anything except talk. One of our biggest problems this that many people want to tell us what they think we are doing wrong, but those people don't want to do it themselves.. |
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Posted: 9/22/2014 10:47:49 PM EDT
[#24]
We were also one of the conservative organizations that were targeted by the IRS, in Cincinnati.They withdrew our tax exempt status and we could not do any fund raising. We ran the organization out of our pockets. We just recently got that resolved. The website at KC3.com is less than a month old and is just a shell. It will be expanded and enhanced soon. The old age issue you mentioned is very serious. I, myself, will be 70 in February. All of the members of the board are old, except for two. We often ask for people to join the board, there are open seats. No one steps up. The few that do, never do a thing and just screw up the votes, by voting on issues that they will never lift a finger to work on. No one will donate their time or their money to protect their gun rights. Most won't even pay the $20 price for a years membership. Everybody will be glad to tell us all the things we are doing wrong, but not make any effort to make things better. Unfortunately, younger people usually have jobs and families that require time and attention. They can't devote the time necessary to do what needs to be done. They won't give up going to Knob Creek on Saturday to shoot, so they can man the KC3 table at the gun show in Lexington, they can't miss work to appear before a Senate committee in Frankfort to get a new bill passed.They won't miss a UK basketball game to speak at a meeting in Bowling Green or complain at a City Council meeting in Bardstown. I wish they could. I wish they would. When we are gone their will be nobody to do those things. It is a potential disaster, in waiting. During all of you internet searches, what Ky. gun rights group did you find that was doing more or doing anything better than KC3? I don't know of any. I wish I knew of one, we would gladly join in what ever they had in the works. |
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Posted: 9/23/2014 1:44:27 PM EDT
[#25]
I hear you about people not making the time to help an organization. You can't interrupt tailgating, basketball, football, the Derby, or Keeneland. When I got married the wedding fell on a date that UK played Louisville. Several people didn't attend, others demanded a TV have it on during the reception, and others showed up but quickly left. That's just part of the culture here. I'm not sure how to handle that. The gun culture here is amazing, access to pro-gun politicians is easy, everyone in the state is "family", but try to organize an event and no one shows.
As for what I've been doing to help out, I've been posting the Legislative Watch threads the last several years. I list every gun related bill, provide the details, list who to contact, update the status as it moves through the legislative body, and remind people to contact their legislators when a bill is going to be voted on. I've been trying to get all the information out there and make people aware...which is something a pro-gun organization should be doing. My internet searches turn up no organizations for Kentucky gun rights. Huffington Post articles about guns in Kentucky appear well before any organization would. I stopped looking after 10 pages. KC3 has always been the "most active" group of the groups in Kentucky but I bet if you asked people at a gun show to name a Kentucky gun rights group 99 out 100 would not know about KC3. I don't understand the part about "tax exempt" status. An organization that is going to engage in lobbying is typically not allowed to be tax exempt. They can still be a non-profit and operate but they aren't a "charity" that people can donate and write it off their taxes. The Michigan group was not tax exempt and did plenty of fundraising. It sounds like KC3 still has a lot of baggage and needs a reset. Or a new group with a clear mission statement and purpose be formed. I've encountered several organizations where a couple old timers refused to relax the reigns a bit and continue to block advancement. They get what they want but it doesn't benefit others, just like people missing a gun show because UK playing. I am stumped on how to effectively deal with that.
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Posted: 9/23/2014 6:28:29 PM EDT
[#26]
I don't understand the part about "tax exempt" status. An organization that is going to engage in lobbying is typically not allowed to be tax exempt. They can still be a non-profit and operate but they aren't a "charity" that people can donate and write it off their taxes. The Michigan group was not tax exempt and did plenty of fundraising.
Yes, according to the IRS, organizations engaged in "lobbying" aren't tax exempt. http://www.irs.gov/Charities-%26-Non-Profits/Lobbying In general, no organization may qualify for section 501(c)(3) status if a substantial part of its activities is attempting to influence legislation (commonly known as lobbying). A 501(c)(3) organization may engage in some lobbying, but too much lobbying activity risks loss of tax-exempt status.
I suspect the part in red is why K3 regained the tax-free status. Getting local governments, organizations, and companies to remove illegal gun policies isn't creating new legislation - the laws are already on the books. Getting them to obey the current laws isn't lobbying; that's just keeping them honest. |
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Posted: 9/23/2014 11:30:51 PM EDT
[#27]
I saw your legislative watch posts last year. They were very good. I was doing the same thing over on open carry dot org. At the same time I was actually in Frankfort, trying to get a hearing for HB 127. I never could get it done.
You may be right about our name recognition, lots of people that stop by our table at gun shows think we give concealed carry classes, we don't. Some of our members are instructors, but the organization does not. I never said we were a charity. Maybe a charity case, but not a charity. A 501 c(3) can not lobby. A 501 c(4) can do limited lobbying within it area of activity. We could have done fund raising while our tax status was in limbo, but we would have had to file and pay taxes on every cent. Better to just wait it out, now we are back as before, a 501 C (4). I don't understand how you think it would be beneficial to KC3 to discard the few people that are willing to work and try to attract a new group of people that has consistently refused to do any work in the past. That doesn't sound like a very good plan to me. Nobody is blocking any advancement. There are open seats on the board right now. Anybody that is willing to work would be welcome; tonight if they want. We are actively recruiting new blood. What we don't want or need is more whiners that demand that everybody else do it their way, while they sit it out. We've had enough of that in the past. Nobody holds anybody back. On the contrary, I try to push everybody, but some of them think that working and raising a family should come first. There may be other people/groups that are doing more/better things in Ky. than KC3, but I haven't seen them yet. I hope they are out there. I'd certainly be glad to listen while somebody names them off. Maybe somebody would send me an application. . |
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Posted: 9/24/2014 9:20:45 AM EDT
[#28]
Thanks for your work with KC3. I had no idea this organization existed and I appreciate the work you're doing.
I've subscribed to the RSS news feed on the site. I will try to make some room in the October budget to make a donation too. Please keep posting on ARFCOM and your website as issues come up. |
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Posted: 9/24/2014 10:27:16 PM EDT
[#29]
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Thanks for your work with KC3. I had no idea this organization existed and I appreciate the work you're doing. I've subscribed to the RSS news feed on the site. I will try to make some room in the October budget to make a donation too. Please keep posting on ARFCOM and your website as issues come up. Thanks. Why not become a member? I have posted dozens of our activities on opencarry.org. My screen name over there is gutshot.There are currently a lot of things in the works, some big, some small, but all important. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 11:34:44 PM EDT
[#30]
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Will you tell us who the employer is, so we can keep an eye on them? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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sorry for the late reply i have computer issues going on right now,anyway for the time being they are mum on the subject,i believe someone besides me has said something because all the signs they put up are gone now (actually gone in one day) so thats a good thing.HOWEVER i am waiting for it to come up again,i have a copy of the laws on my phone and i will raise hell about it,and if they fire me i will sue there pants off of them, Will you tell us who the employer is, so we can keep an eye on them? There are alot of employers that have no gun on premise rules, they aren't aware of the KRS on the subject. I have brought it up to HR a number of times and nothing ever occurred. |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 7:18:35 AM EDT
[#31]
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There are alot of employers that have no gun on premise rules, they aren't aware of the KRS on the subject. I have brought it up to HR a number of times and nothing ever occurred. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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sorry for the late reply i have computer issues going on right now,anyway for the time being they are mum on the subject,i believe someone besides me has said something because all the signs they put up are gone now (actually gone in one day) so thats a good thing.HOWEVER i am waiting for it to come up again,i have a copy of the laws on my phone and i will raise hell about it,and if they fire me i will sue there pants off of them, Will you tell us who the employer is, so we can keep an eye on them? There are alot of employers that have no gun on premise rules, they aren't aware of the KRS on the subject. I have brought it up to HR a number of times and nothing ever occurred. Can these companies be punished by the courts, if they persist on illegal sign posting? of course on the flip side... you might be looking for a new job afterwards 
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Posted: 9/28/2014 9:46:24 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can these companies be punished by the courts, if they persist on illegal sign posting? of course on the flip side... you might be looking for a new job afterwards Quote HistoryQuoted:
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sorry for the late reply i have computer issues going on right now,anyway for the time being they are mum on the subject,i believe someone besides me has said something because all the signs they put up are gone now (actually gone in one day) so thats a good thing.HOWEVER i am waiting for it to come up again,i have a copy of the laws on my phone and i will raise hell about it,and if they fire me i will sue there pants off of them, Will you tell us who the employer is, so we can keep an eye on them? There are alot of employers that have no gun on premise rules, they aren't aware of the KRS on the subject. I have brought it up to HR a number of times and nothing ever occurred. Can these companies be punished by the courts, if they persist on illegal sign posting? of course on the flip side... you might be looking for a new job afterwards It's a private company, the signs are put on by another company that owns the building. Our official policy is no weapons at work nor on the property. AFAIK it has never been an issue that someone has been disciplined for a weapon in their car. Most of my co-workers assume I have at least one gun in the car as I shoot alot and run matches pretty much monthly and talk guns on every break pretty much with other shooters If the day comes that the company pushes it and asks me if I have a gun in the car I won't lie, I will admit I have a gun and then hope they discipline or even better fire me because I will then get paid to not work when the lawsuit starts and when I win I will get a settlement and back pay. |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 4:13:47 PM EDT
[#33]
We only have the rights we are willing to defend. This is exactly the reason Michael Mitchell sued UK, he was fired for keeping a gun in his car on UK property. The Ky. Supreme Court ruled, in a 7-0 opinion, that his firing was improper. So, yes, the company can be punished for breaking this law, just like you can be punished for breaking any other law. Can they fire you? Yes, they can, but they will be liable for those actions in court. Michael Mitchell got all his back pay, an offer to be reinstated in his job and a huge settlement. He didn't want his job back. By the time the case was settled, he was in medical school in the Virgin Islands. I doubt that any other employer will want to try this again. Many of them are just ignorant of the law, some just try to bluff their employees or think that employees are too cowered to do anything about it, but when faced with the law and advice from their lawyers, they will relent. A few "tough guys" may say they wont allow it, but when faced with the realities of a lawsuit I suspect they will decide to comply with the law. The problem is that most employees are not willing to stand up for their rights. Most just keep a gun in their car and keep their mouths shut about it. The problem with that is that this emboldens the employers. They never see a downside to violating the law. Some day, a guy (just like you or me), will be found with a gun in his car and fired, because the employer is used to doing as he pleases and expects no push back. These people need to be confronted every time a sign goes up.
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Posted: 9/28/2014 4:37:31 PM EDT
[#34]
double post
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Posted: 9/28/2014 5:35:58 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryIt's a private company, the signs are put on by another company that owns the building. Our official policy is no weapons at work nor on the property. AFAIK it has never been an issue that someone has been disciplined for a weapon in their car. Most of my co-workers assume I have at least one gun in the car as I shoot alot and run matches pretty much monthly and talk guns on every break pretty much with other shooters If the day comes that the company pushes it and asks me if I have a gun in the car I won't lie, I will admit I have a gun and then hope they discipline or even better fire me because I will then get paid to not work when the lawsuit starts and when I win I will get a settlement and back pay. It doesn't matter whether it is the employer or the owner of the building/property. The statute says "No person" can prohibit another from keeping a gun in their car. This includes you at your home. You can't prohibit a guest in your home from keeping a gun in his car. |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 9:38:55 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It doesn't matter whether it is the employer or the owner of the building/property. The statute says "No person" can prohibit another from keeping a gun in their car. This includes you at your home. You can't prohibit a guest in your home from keeping a gun in his car. Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's a private company, the signs are put on by another company that owns the building. Our official policy is no weapons at work nor on the property. AFAIK it has never been an issue that someone has been disciplined for a weapon in their car. Most of my co-workers assume I have at least one gun in the car as I shoot alot and run matches pretty much monthly and talk guns on every break pretty much with other shooters If the day comes that the company pushes it and asks me if I have a gun in the car I won't lie, I will admit I have a gun and then hope they discipline or even better fire me because I will then get paid to not work when the lawsuit starts and when I win I will get a settlement and back pay. It doesn't matter whether it is the employer or the owner of the building/property. The statute says "No person" can prohibit another from keeping a gun in their car. This includes you at your home. You can't prohibit a guest in your home from keeping a gun in his car. If that car is on my property I can tell them to move the car off my property. The KRS is very clear that only employers are liable if they punish you for having a gun in the car. What exactly could the state do if I asked a guy over my house to get his car off my property when I knew he had a gun in it and didn't want his car on my property with a gun in it? nothing. I understand your passion and excitement about this whole law but I also see as a homeowner I have the right to ask someone to leave my property whenever I feel like it. |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 10:30:45 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryIf that car is on my property I can tell them to move the car off my property. The KRS is very clear that only employers are liable if they punish you for having a gun in the car. What exactly could the state do if I asked a guy over my house to get his car off my property when I knew he had a gun in it and didn't want his car on my property with a gun in it? nothing.
I understand your passion and excitement about this whole law but I also see as a homeowner I have the right to ask someone to leave my property whenever I feel like it. You have missed the point. Sure, you can just not invite anyone to your house or un-invite those that you have invited. An employer can also close the parking lot and not allow any employee to park on his property, but once you or he allows other people's cars on the property, guns can not be excluded. There is nothing in the law that says that you or an employer is required to allow cars on his property. That was never the subject of this thread. This was about cars that are parked on other peoples property. The point I was attempting to make is that the law is not exclusive to employers. It can also apply in a public or commercial parking lot. |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 10:51:22 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have missed the point. Sure, you can just not invite anyone to your house or un-invite those that you have invited. An employer can also close the parking lot and not allow any employee to park on his property, but once you or he allows other people's cars on the property, guns can not be excluded. There is nothing in the law that says that you or an employer is required to allow cars on his property. That was never the subject of this thread. This was about cars that are parked on other peoples property. The point I was attempting to make is that the law is not exclusive to employers. It can also apply in a public or commercial parking lot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
If that car is on my property I can tell them to move the car off my property. The KRS is very clear that only employers are liable if they punish you for having a gun in the car. What exactly could the state do if I asked a guy over my house to get his car off my property when I knew he had a gun in it and didn't want his car on my property with a gun in it? nothing.
I understand your passion and excitement about this whole law but I also see as a homeowner I have the right to ask someone to leave my property whenever I feel like it. You have missed the point. Sure, you can just not invite anyone to your house or un-invite those that you have invited. An employer can also close the parking lot and not allow any employee to park on his property, but once you or he allows other people's cars on the property, guns can not be excluded. There is nothing in the law that says that you or an employer is required to allow cars on his property. That was never the subject of this thread. This was about cars that are parked on other peoples property. The point I was attempting to make is that the law is not exclusive to employers. It can also apply in a public or commercial parking lot. I think you have missed the point. I ABSOLUTELY can tell you to get off my property if you have a gun in your car and then allow anyone else I want to come unto the property with a gun in their car. No one can tell me who I have to allow on my property. There are situations where public safety such as LE fire etc can force their way unto the property but they are rare. I understand the law, I understand it very well. I have been a CCDW instructor for 7 years. The law is the law, good, bad, whatever we think of it. We are arguing the same point I think. |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 1:17:18 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryI think you have missed the point. I ABSOLUTELY can tell you to get off my property if you have a gun in your car and then allow anyone else I want to come unto the property with a gun in their car. No one can tell me who I have to allow on my property. There are situations where public safety such as LE fire etc can force their way unto the property but they are rare. I understand the law, I understand it very well. I have been a CCDW instructor for 7 years. The law is the law, good, bad, whatever we think of it. We are arguing the same point I think. I think you are right, we are saying the same thing in different ways. |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 9:41:02 PM EDT
[#40]
Chris, sorry for the slow response....
As I recall, HR was told via the "rumor" mill that I carried at work. On the date in question I had left my CCW at home due to needing a cleaning from firing the day before. So after being searched and humiliated at work they found all my police gear in my personal car and not firearms. So instead of firing me for firearms related issues they concocted a story about timesheets and lunch breaks. Long story short, I was let go for 2 years and then the union finally "found" my grievance and took them to arbitration and I won back my job with back pay. I then proceeded to turn in my 2 weeks notice on day one and never returned to work again. If they had found a firearm they would have let me go for that...but I still feel violated by the implied forced search of my person and personal vehicle all on a rumor Thanks for listing to my rant! Jim - EX-Cincinnati Bell employee. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 11:59:22 AM EDT
[#41]
Hi guys, Colorado resident here moving to Ky soon. Been following your HT forum a bit, to become more familarized with yall.
Morlock, sorry for your situation, but sounds like you hung in there. Hope you find another employer and aren't too hurting without employment right now. May I suggest a moderator take out the whole banter about the KC3 stuff and all those replies and tack them up top with a new Topic heading? Seems like good stuff but may get lost in this thread (since it DID kinda hijack it!  )
Be seeing you all soon, keep up the fight, Lord knows we need it in Commi-rado these days! (had to ship some hi cap mags to my BIL since the only thing we can get here is MMJ! go figure) jack, out |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 10:10:29 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you are right, we are saying the same thing in different ways. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you have missed the point. I ABSOLUTELY can tell you to get off my property if you have a gun in your car and then allow anyone else I want to come unto the property with a gun in their car. No one can tell me who I have to allow on my property. There are situations where public safety such as LE fire etc can force their way unto the property but they are rare. I understand the law, I understand it very well. I have been a CCDW instructor for 7 years. The law is the law, good, bad, whatever we think of it. We are arguing the same point I think. I think you are right, we are saying the same thing in different ways. I think you both have good points. The courts probably would not intervene if someone told another person to get off their property if the individual had a firearm in their vehicle if it was a private home. I am doubtful they would go against the homeowner. A business is a different animal. If a business told an employee to remove their car from their property because the vehicle had a firearm in it I am doubtful the courts would support the business for a variety of reasons not the just the law in question. That is because you get into harassment and discrimination issues for the employer. Also the courts would probably take the view that the company was violating the spirit of the law. |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 7:58:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryI think you both have good points. The courts probably would not intervene if someone told another person to get off their property if the individual had a firearm in their vehicle if it was a private home. I am doubtful they would go against the homeowner. A business is a different animal. If a business told an employee to remove their car from their property because the vehicle had a firearm in it I am doubtful the courts would support the business for a variety of reasons not the just the law in question. That is because you get into harassment and discrimination issues for the employer. Also the courts would probably take the view that the company was violating the spirit of the law. I have never said that a person can't control who comes onto their property. They can exclude who ever they want. My point is that once you allow a car on your property, you must also allow the guns inside the car. That person can kick them off the property any time they want for any reason they want. What they can't do is punish anybody for having a gun in the car that has been allowed on the property. An employer or private property owner can close his parking lot or property to everybody if he wants to, but can not punish anyone that has guns in the car. These are two different things. This is true for everybody, even private property owners; including you and me. |
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Posted: 10/8/2014 6:05:48 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have never said that a person can't control who comes onto their property. They can exclude who ever they want. My point is that once you allow a car on your property, you must also allow the guns inside the car. That person can kick them off the property any time they want for any reason they want. What they can't do is punish anybody for having a gun in the car that has been allowed on the property. An employer or private property owner can close his parking lot or property to everybody if he wants to, but can not punish anyone that has guns in the car. These are two different things. This is true for everybody, even private property owners; including you and me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you both have good points. The courts probably would not intervene if someone told another person to get off their property if the individual had a firearm in their vehicle if it was a private home. I am doubtful they would go against the homeowner. A business is a different animal. If a business told an employee to remove their car from their property because the vehicle had a firearm in it I am doubtful the courts would support the business for a variety of reasons not the just the law in question. That is because you get into harassment and discrimination issues for the employer. Also the courts would probably take the view that the company was violating the spirit of the law. I have never said that a person can't control who comes onto their property. They can exclude who ever they want. My point is that once you allow a car on your property, you must also allow the guns inside the car. That person can kick them off the property any time they want for any reason they want. What they can't do is punish anybody for having a gun in the car that has been allowed on the property. An employer or private property owner can close his parking lot or property to everybody if he wants to, but can not punish anyone that has guns in the car. These are two different things. This is true for everybody, even private property owners; including you and me. Exactly. IIRC the law is set up so that, while a company can exclude guns in the building, a worker doesn't have to remain unarmed before and after work... cos in KY the "castle doctrine" applies to the car as well as the home IIRC. IIRC this also means they can't fire you for having a firearm in the car. |
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