I came home from a trip up north to find that my computer had been hacked by none-other than Microsoft, themselves.  Seems that my constant denial of their offers to "upgrade" to Win 10 have been annoying them so they just up and installed a good portion of it on my machine without my permission!  Needless to say I was extremely pissed and used a lot of language that I normally don't use.  Fortunately I was able to back it all out and resume my nice, stable and understandable Win 7.   Subsequently I believe that they didn't actually install Win 10 but, in disguise, they put up a page that for all the world looked like Win 10 had failed to load all the way.  I had the choice of continuing which would have completed the project but I did back out and nothing was harmed.  Then, within 24 hours, they did the same thing to my wife's laptop.  Once again we turned it back and got back to normal.

Who do they think they are uploading ANYTHING without my permission!  I allow them to update Win 7 when needed automatically but dumping new software on my system to replace the basic OS is a slapping in the face or kicking in the groin offence. I've since done some research and there are ways to prohibit anyone, including Microsoft, from uploading anything to your system without your administrative permissions.  Rest assured something will change.  

BTW, I do have Win 10 on my tablet because I had Win 8.1 on it.  I hate 8.1 and figured 10 wouldn't be any worse.  I was wrong.  I haven't touched that thing since because the learning curve is just another big time sucker and I'm tired of having to completely relearn how to turn off and on a computer and find files using my finger on a screen.  That whole thing is a solution looking for a problem.  

Rant, off.......

Rome

LOT of people bitching in multiple GD threads (see here, here, hereand here) about Win 10 auto installing over the last few days. To the point that its comical some of the bitching that always happens when someone posts a thread about Windows 10.

Couple of comments:
Despite what most everyone is saying Windows 10 will not complete the update WITHOUT the user clicking one or more links/buttons on screen. If I remember right all one has to do is click Decline at the license screen and Windows 10 should roll back the attempted install/upgrade. As explained in one of the GD thread posts (see this post) people thought they were preventing the Windows 10 Upgrade, but because they didn't read the screens carefully and click the right button/link(s) to prevent the install/upgrade, what happened instead was they were clicking a "install now" yes/no button, and by clicking "no" thinking they were stopping the upgrade, instead they scheduled the install/upgrade to a later time so when that time occurred Windows 10 upgraded itself. Which lead people to erroneously believe that Windows 10 auto installed without their being able to prevent it. Most of this is due to people not quite understanding what was happening and what they were agreeing to, and Microsoft's intentional poor wording of the various screens.

As explained NUMEROUS times in a great many threads about Windows 10 both on ARFCOM and elsewhere it is quite easy to prevent Windows 10 from being installed. Run either one of the following programs and you can prevent Win 10 from installing.
GWX Control Panel
Never 10

If you did install Windows 10 and want to roll back, within 30 days, to your previous OS, follow the steps at the following link.

How to Uninstall Windows 10 and Downgrade to Windows 7 or 8.1

If you want to keep Windows 10 one can disable quite a bit of the tracking/monitoring the OS does, but you cannot prevent all of it from within the OS. There are several programs out there that will, in one or two clicks, turn off most monitoring/tracking. O&O ShutUp10 is one such free program.

Unfortunately even with the various programs to turn off the monitoring/tracking you cannot stop it all within the OS, rather you have to do so at the network edge using a router or similar device that is capable of blocking inbound/outbound network traffic on user specified ports or to user specified websites.

Thx, fellas.  Just know that as far as I'm concerned, AR15.com is this hometown thread.  I rarely, if ever, go elsewhere.  It's like knowing your own neighborhood and not wanting to drift into unknown areas of the same town.  Hell, I didn't even know what GD was until someone told me about a year ago.

Understand, too, that I've been on the learning curve since 1985 when my dad and I built our first PC from components still warm off the factory floor.  I'm just tired of it anymore.  I like 7 and it likes me and I'm not a fan of these touch screens because either the screens got smaller or my fingers got pudgier.  I even use a stylus like a girl sometimes.......I admit it.  As for Microsoft, sell me on the fact that 10 is better because....... not because you want me to go there for my own good.  Tell me the features I can't live without.  Understand, however, that my main screen remains as clean as the driven snow and when you boot up Google, it's a clear screen there, too.  I don't like clutter and I certainly don't need entertainment on my main screen unless I want to be entertained.  Big blocks may be cool to the younger crowd who are closer to having played with blocks.  I'm a minimalist and I prefer as little in my face as possible when I sit in front of my 'puter.  That's all just me, however.  Way behind the times.  I just got my first "smart phone' in January and use it for maybe three or four things all of which has saved me time in front of my normal screen and I even discovered something called "bluetooth".   I do appreciate that even though it had a huge learning curve from my old-fashioned flip phone.  

Have a good weekend!

Rome

Just happened to me 3 days ago. I've always maintained that I never wanted to upgrade an operating system as it was originally intended. I'm kinda pissed off that it happened.

I updated on my own. its fine.

I used to write software for a living.  Absolutely hate computers now.  Before that I raced a Porsche 911, built race cars, serviced Porsche, MB, Ferrari, etc.  Now I have no interest in cars.  I have a Mazda RX-7 that I dropped a 5 liter V8 into 15 years ago.  I've put maybe 5,000 miles on it in 15 years (maybe less).  It runs fine, but I'm just not into cars anymore.  Haven't read a car magazine in at least 20 years.

At least guns still have my interest.  At 61 now I hope I die before I want to garden.  I hate lawns, and have to mow the fucking thing after I finish this post.  I hate trying to grow food - tried it for a couple of years a decade ago and won't do it again (would rather starve to death).  Old people suck!  Yeah 61 is old in my mind, so I guess I suck too.

I'm typing this on a 15 year old Dell Latitude laptop with Windows XP Pro (service pack 2).  When it dies I'll consider buying something 5 years old.

Fuck CT DOT and their god damn road salt!

FDM.

It should be noted that Win 10 doesn't really change the "desktop" screen you see with Win 7 all that much. What you have on a Win 7 desktop will generally remain once upgraded to Win 10. The only major change is with the taskbar ribbon and the addition of the stupid Cortina search field which can be removed from the task bar. Below is an example of the Win 10 desktop.



Where you see the stupid "blocks" is when one opens the start menu and those "blocks" can be removed. Example of the start menu below:



The Windows 10 interface isn't as obnoxious as the stupid tablet Metro interface Microsoft inflicted upon people in Windows 8.

For some Windows 10, will possibly run faster than Windows 7.

Thx, SB, for sharing that.  I guess  that I'd rather not have to upload and then seriously modify that OS to come back to something I recognize.  What I'm going to do is open the dumb tablet and get that all sorted out before I have to migrate to a new OS on my main computer.  At least I have that option rather than screw up my main ride.

Group 8..........CONGRATULATIONS on your 1000th post!  Bet you missed it

We all go through phases.  I love firearms but no longer keep the huge stable I once had with stuff from all over the world.  It was a lot of fun but I don't miss the maintenance and most of what I had collected has ended up in someone else's collection, not on the rack of the local FFL so they all have good homes.

One easy/quick way to learn the user interface changes in Windows 10 without actually upgrading one's PC is to run it within a virtual machine. Download and run the Windows 10 virtual machine version from Microsoft then run it within free VM software like Oracle's VirtualBox,

good idea.  I'll give that a try.  

R

Can someone with Windows 10 start the process to add a printer and see if there is an option for a XEROX DOCUPRINT N17? (N17 is the important part.  Docuprint may or may not be displayed)

TIA

I went to add device and it just scanned  it wasn't like the old style where you could pick the model.

There was a fielt to browse the c drive

Actually you can pick a printer driver like previous versions of windows the problem is you have to select a printer that's already installed, select its Properties, then change Properties, then click the Advanced tab, then click the New Drivers button and click the next button which will then list the printer drivers similar to previous versions of Windows.

While there are several Xerox Docuprint printers listed none specific included or listed the N17. Its possible the N17 is included under some other version similar to the way HP groups multiple printers under a certain generic series driver.

Edit: One could simply try the Windows 7 driver (if one exists) for the printer. When upgrading to Windows 10 it should transfer over all the existing installed printer drivers for printers that were installed by the user under Windows 7, 8 and 8.1..

Bummer.  The N17 drivers are in XP.  Recently upgraded wife to newer computer with Win 7 Pro, but no N17 drivers.  Nothing at Xerox other than a generic driver that works.... most of the time.  We have three of these fantastic workhorse printers and a bunch of supplies for them.  Was hoping y'all would say there was an N17 driver in Win 10.

Try this answer to see if it works. If not spend $75 and get yourself a smaller, better, modern printer. A 20 year old printer is like driving a 50 year old car.

Edit never mind wasn't drivers just a web utility program.

Lol those assholes at Microsoft better get their shit straight with this upgrade. In my field, we run a lot of software that isn't compatible with Win10 (at least, not yet). Hell, we have a hard enough time getting software to run properly on 64-bit Win7. At least we're only dealing with machine automation software, what's the worst that could happen?

Yeah the way Microsoft has rolled out the "free" upgrade to Windows 10 has been, on many levels, not well though out. Same goes for the amount of tracking and data collection that is done by the OS in an effort to monetize the end user/customer's computing habits/actions. There is unfortunately no indication that Microsoft will change their new course or will listen to the many complaints about Windows 10.

On the flip side, to expect a new OS to run software that is 10 or 20 years old may be a bit unreasonable. At some point the user and software/hardware vender has to bear some of the blame rather than Microsoft. Currently Windows 10 does not auto upgrade without some form of user interaction. At some point the user clicked or has to click to allow Windows 10 to upgrade. Windows 7, 8, 8.1 users can continue to use their current OS and not upgrade to Windows 10. The user can roll back (within 30 days) from Windows 10 to their previous OS. The software/hardware vender could upgrade their software/drivers to work with Windows 10. The customer could pay for new versions of that software (or hardware) that is compatible with Windows 10. Instead some (many?) simply choose to bitch/moan and blame Microsoft.

On a side note, as with every time Microsoft releases a new OS, its been LOL funny to see some bitch about their 10+ year old low cost printer not working with Windows 10 or some old game or software long out of date not working with the new OS.

If one wants to dump Windows then there is always Linux for basic home use, even though Linux still has a ways to go to be as easy to use as Windows or OS X. Some flavors of Linux fairly closely approximate the same user interface of Windows.

I dunno if you're referring to me, but the N17 printers I have weren't "low cost" printers when new.  They are corporate/business grade workhorse machines.  I have had two in use for about 10 years, one backup, and a decade's supply of new toner/drums and fuserrs.  (I don't print much, but my wife is a teacher and prints reams and reams of stuff....  anywhere from 10 to 20 thousand pages a year).  She has had cheapy consumer grade printers in the past and they were a pain in the ass fucking junk.

Windows used to add printers to their list with each new version.  They had 9 pin printer drivers for decades after those printers were probably long gone.  I was disappointed to see they dropped the N17 in Windows 7 when I upgraded my wife to a newer machine with Win 7.  I used a generic type driver which mostly works, but was hoping Win 10 had an N17 specific driver.  I was planning on skipping Win 10, and have auto updates shut off.  Every couple of weeks I run Win 7 updates, and try to read about each update to avoid installing any Win 10 bullshit.

After 33 years of using IBM/DOS/Win machines I'm thinking seriously of switching to Apple.

Fuck Bill Gates.

SB, I understand completely your comments and, in most ways, agree with them.  But there's a "but" coming.

You buy a car that requires leaded fuel to run properly and leaded fuel is removed from the market with nothing to replace it ruining your car's ability to run correctly or costing you a lot to retrofit or buy a new car;  
You buy an expensive tubed TV and get great service from it until all the analog channels are discontinued and require you to buy new technology or a secondary cable box to run correctly;
You've stocked up on light bulbs only to be told that they are no longer on the market and you MUST buy bulbs that have no correct way to dispose of them and make crappy harsh light;
You finally swapped over to the crappy bulbs only to be told that LED is now the way to go and have to learn all over again how to buy bulbs that last 25 years and come in a huge variety of lights. What's a Kelvin??;
The flip phone you've become accustomed to and which works for your purposes is abandoned and you have to buy a mini-computer that does everything well except work as a phone and damned if you can figure it out;
The pc you've come to know and love even with it's deficiencies and the printer that give you satisfactory hard copies no longer works because the "new and improved" OS is so much better.  Well, not for you;

Now I could go on and on but I think you get the drift.  When we were younger, technology really didn't change all that much from our parents generation.  Sure, there were some things that appeared in our homes but they didn't require the ability to read 43 page manual to make 'em work.  But, when you're younger, you're not married to a particular technology and you tend to go with the flow and stuff gets more and more complicated.  As you get older (and I'm going to admit right here that I'm 64) after a while you have better things to do with your time than sit at the kitchen table with a manual printed in 2 pitch trying to figure out how to get your contacts from one phone to the other.  You're conversing with a fella that can adjust points on any English car (and most American cars) with a screwdriver and match book cover or tune triple carbs using an 8" piece of tubing and my ear.   I can tear down complete engines, diagnose most problems with anything mechanical and fix them if i can find the parts.  I've worked with both my head and hands since I was 15.   Today very little of that is even viable any more.  You throw stuff away. Stuff just happens ever damned week and we, of the Baby Boomer Age, have decided that enough is enough and I'm going fishing or camping or I'm going to prepare an 8 course fancy dinner using my knowledge (still applicable) about wine I've accumulated over the decades rather than be forced to becoming a slave to this.  Yes, I have applied some of my talents to overhaul my computers completely with better MBs and cooling and Sata 3 SSHDs but there's little fun in that and I did it because I wanted to.  

Sorry......I got off on a tangent there.  Tomorrow I put all this behind me as my architect son, his wife,and my precious 1 year old grand daughter all come back to New England permanently from the coast of California where we saw them twice a year if lucky.  I'm in 7th heaven and have been baby proofing the house for the 2 weeks she'll spend here while the kids prepare their Condo in Boston, a mere 97 miles from here.  Keep Calm........rant off......

Rome

No I wasn't I was thinking more about the constant bitching I heard when people's printers that worked under XP stopped working when Vista and Win 7 were released.

But in the end why bitch about Microsoft in this instance? It is at the end of the day the fault of Xerox not Microsoft for not releasing Windows 10 drivers for your N17 printer. Like it or not Xerox does not support the N17 under Windows 8.x or Windows 10: http://www.office.xerox.com/latest/SFTWP-03U.PDF

Why should Microsoft, when they release a new OS, choose to continue supporting a printer when the printer manufacturer has chosen two OS versions ago to no longer support their own printer?

In fact it appears (at least for the N17b) the last supported postscript drivers (for XP) was released in 2004, over 12 years ago.

If the N17 printer is that important then don't upgrade. Or upgrade on PC as a test and roll back if it doesn't work. Or setup a network print server for the N17 printer and try to configure Windows 10 PC's to use that network print server. Edit to add: Or keep one PC on the older Windows OS that supports the printer and enable Print Sharing (if possible) to share the printer with Windows 10 computers.

Oh I fully understand what your saying but it should be noted that several of your examples were mandated by the government, not by your personal choice. No one is forcing you to use Windows 10, period. Currently Microsoft is not forcing one to use Windows 10 in spite of what people think is happening. To upgrade to Windows 10 requires end user intervention even if that end user doesn't fully understand or read the dialog boxes on screen.

I am usually the last to defend Microsoft on Windows 10 due to the data collection it does on the end user. When I upgraded one PC to Windows 10 I saw first hand how easy it was to misread the onscreen dialog boxes because Microsoft intentionally made them confusing or obfuscated where one could decline the upgrade or reject some of the installation defaults. However, it is NOT Microsoft's fault that I have one computer (Toshiba laptop) that doesn't run properly under Windows 10 due to drivers/software not supported by Windows 10. That is the fault of Toshiba for not providing updated drivers for that specific model line of laptops. Sucks but that is the reality so for now that laptop will remain on Windows 7. Further it is not the fault of Microsoft that my Canon printer from over 10 years ago no longer has drivers for Windows 10, that is the fault of Canon. Canon states for that printer; "Windows 7 drivers should function in the Windows 10 environment with some limitations which are currently unknown to Canon." So the only way I'd know for certain if the printer functions correctly or not under Windows 10 is to install Windows 10 and test that printer.

Edit to add: One additional comment. It is sometimes painful, frustrating, and expensive to upgrade to new technology. But in this instance one is not being forced to upgrade to Windows 10. They can continue to use their old OS even when Microsoft discontinues active support for it. But if one chooses to use the older OS they may find that certain new equipment may not longer work with that older OS. Currently new computer equipment is often labeled as not supported under Windows XP even though many still use Windows XP. Hell I still run XP under a virtualbox environment because of some old software that I don't want to pay to upgrade to later versions supported under Windows 7 (or 10).

SB,  you and I are looking at the same 1/2 full glass.  I'm also aware of the holes in my discussion that ignore the fact that the gubmint mandates stuff.  I'm sick of that, too, because I would much prefer that the market place and the consumer be the progenitor of a new product.  TV airwaves are something else, however, and are regulated by the feds and therefore, they make the rules.  Plus, you couldn't bring out a flat-screen TV without having the airwaves to power them.  Even so, I think it could have been done a lot more positively.  (I was one of the first early adopters of HDTV, btw.  I paid big time for an RPTV back before there were NO HDTV broadcasts in CT or Cable.  My RPTV (A Mitsubishi) didn't even have a digital tuner because the technology had not been standardized yet.)

I'm just getting set in my ways, SB, and with all that I have to do in the time I have available seems to be demanded on by a lot of outside forces beyond my control........unless I don't allow them to take control of the time in the first place.  So, I pick and choose my battles.  I actually bought my wife a Motorola Moto G smartphone to match mine because I do like the features it bring to my daily life but it doesn't rule my day and you'll never see me texting or reading in public, period.  

Thanks for your replies.  You make a lot of good points as has everyone else here.  I began this thread because I was just caught off guard when I turned on my monitor to see what I thought was the "BSOD" !  (blue screen of death, fyi)  Remember that?  Instead it was almost as bad when it said "Welcome to Windows 10".  I had a lot to do on my computer and cleaning up that mess wasn't the way I wanted to start my day, that's all.

Rome

Way too much text.

But you can compile Linux from source and customize it as you wish. Then you only have yourself to blame.

Sometimes concepts and thoughts cannot fit or be jammed into 140 characters or less that people seem to want to consume these days.  

There's an upgrade for that.