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Posted: 11/24/2015 6:23:04 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The state is just stalling. If they had a leg to stand on they would have just said no go. Qft |
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Posted: 11/24/2015 7:33:40 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Qft Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The state is just stalling. If they had a leg to stand on they would have just said no go. Qft Stalling until the next legislative session... |
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Posted: 11/24/2015 8:11:57 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Stalling until the next legislative session... The way the rules work for the state legislature they probably cannot take up a bill to close what they view as a loophole until 2017 unless they go the EC route again. |
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Posted: 11/24/2015 8:57:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The way the rules work for the state legislature they probably cannot take up a bill to close what they view as a loophole until 2017 unless they go the EC route again. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Stalling until the next legislative session... The way the rules work for the state legislature they probably cannot take up a bill to close what they view as a loophole until 2017 unless they go the EC route again. So stalling till one of the 1600 "refugees" we're going to take in gives them a nice new reason for a new shiny EC. |
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Posted: 11/24/2015 9:47:42 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So stalling till one of the 1600 "refugees" we're going to take in gives them a nice new reason for a new shiny EC. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Stalling until the next legislative session... The way the rules work for the state legislature they probably cannot take up a bill to close what they view as a loophole until 2017 unless they go the EC route again. So stalling till one of the 1600 "refugees" we're going to take in gives them a nice new reason for a new shiny EC. Ayup. I fucking hate this state. I can't afford to leave and every day I just dread. 20 dollars they close the "Pre-ban loophole" too. |
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Posted: 11/24/2015 11:23:30 PM EDT
[#6]
What preban loophole?
It's specifically worded in the law that they are legal to own, buy, sell, transfer. 
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Posted: 11/25/2015 6:00:52 AM EDT
[#7]
They will never make a determination. They will just find another excuse.
They probably feel they cant win in court because the way the law is worded, so they need to stall until they can change it. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 7:43:07 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They will never make a determination. They will just find another excuse. They probably feel they cant win in court because the way the law is worded, so they need to stall until they can change it. Apparently they are not transferring anymore.....until state makes a determination. |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 6:52:22 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They will never make a determination. They will just find another excuse. They probably feel they cant win in court because the way the law is worded, so they need to stall until they can change it. Yep... I guess we should anticipate another law next year to ban these. They're probably ban pre-bans too and make us register them. I'm sure they will have to add something new while they're at it, so they'll probably add other grey area guns to the list too that aren't banned by name that some shops are still transferring. 
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Posted: 11/28/2015 8:31:46 PM EDT
[#10]
If the legislature were to pass an aids cannon ban, would that mean another registration period?
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Posted: 11/28/2015 10:08:32 PM EDT
[#11]
Maybe they just aren't that smart at the state.
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Posted: 11/29/2015 12:28:04 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep... I guess we should anticipate another law next year to ban these. They're probably ban pre-bans too and make us register them. I'm sure they will have to add something new while they're at it, so they'll probably add other grey area guns to the list too that aren't banned by name that some shops are still transferring. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They will never make a determination. They will just find another excuse. They probably feel they cant win in court because the way the law is worded, so they need to stall until they can change it. Yep... I guess we should anticipate another law next year to ban these. They're probably ban pre-bans too and make us register them. I'm sure they will have to add something new while they're at it, so they'll probably add other grey area guns to the list too that aren't banned by name that some shops are still transferring. Ayup. I wouldn't be surprised. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if they go after ALL nfa items (cans, full auto, etc. Select fire is already banned.) |
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Posted: 11/29/2015 12:57:17 AM EDT
[#13]
dupe
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Posted: 11/29/2015 8:48:31 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe they just aren't that smart at the state. This state knows EXACTLY what they're doing. Infringing on the second amendment as much as physically possible. |
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Posted: 11/29/2015 10:00:32 AM EDT
[#15]
A lot of these type of discussions reminds me of WWII Germany. Instead of producing larger numbers of weapons that worked, they spent huge amounts of time and resources on trying to come up with "Wonder Weapons"
Sure it is a worthy task to challenge the AWB by all means possible. The Freedom Shoppe has found a very small opening, and is trying to exploit it. Good for them, but don't get your hopes up. The pre-ban road is wide open (for now). We should concentrate on getting as many of them as possible into the state while we can. Yes, the prices are rising, but they are 100% legal, and most FFLs in the state will handle them now. Want to thumb your nose at the state? Get a pre-ban AR, then buy one of the fixed magazine ARs for good measure. Spare parts will fit on either one, as well as uppers. Sure the fixed magazine AR is a joke, but it is fine for range work. |
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Posted: 11/29/2015 11:44:05 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<snip> Want to thumb your nose at the state? Get a pre-ban AR, then buy one of the fixed magazine ARs for good measure. Spare parts will fit on either one, as well as uppers. Sure the fixed magazine AR is a joke, but it is fine for range work. Or get a jig and make your own fixed mag lower. |
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Posted: 11/29/2015 8:08:14 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or get a jig and make your own fixed mag lower. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
<snip> Want to thumb your nose at the state? Get a pre-ban AR, then buy one of the fixed magazine ARs for good measure. Spare parts will fit on either one, as well as uppers. Sure the fixed magazine AR is a joke, but it is fine for range work. Or get a jig and make your own fixed mag lower. Do they make any 80% lowers that don't have the mag catch milled in? That is the difference with the Dark Storm, and CTLegal lowers, there is no machine work done for the mag catch. The CTLegal lower also does not have the channel broached in the lower portion of the mag well, that clears the "hump" around the magazine mag catch slot. This prevents you from inserting a magazine from below, you must remove the bolt catch, and drop the magazine in from above. |
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Posted: 11/29/2015 9:44:42 PM EDT
[#18]
I would dig a Ar-10 with a fixed mag.
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Posted: 11/30/2015 8:54:36 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would dig a Ar-10 with a fixed mag. Me too! All of the CT legal AR15 substitutes are all too close in price to a pre-ban to motivate me to buy one. However, since AR-10 pre-bans are substantially more expensive, and a fixed mag version would be interesting. |
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Posted: 12/1/2015 6:30:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Me too! All of the CT legal AR15 substitutes are all too close in price to a pre-ban to motivate me to buy one. However, since AR-10 pre-bans are substantially more expensive, and a fixed mag version would be interesting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I would dig a Ar-10 with a fixed mag. Me too! All of the CT legal AR15 substitutes are all too close in price to a pre-ban to motivate me to buy one. However, since AR-10 pre-bans are substantially more expensive, and a fixed mag version would be interesting. Agreed, but in theory at least an AR "substitute" could be a truck gun legally. Preban is still a no go for that. |
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Posted: 12/1/2015 6:35:36 PM EDT
[#21]
Pin the mag and you can put a folding stock on it too, it would take up even less room.
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Posted: 12/1/2015 10:38:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pin the mag and you can put a folding stock on it too, it would take up even less room. Troy PAR has a folding stock. |
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Posted: 12/2/2015 7:54:30 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Troy PAR has a folding stock. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Pin the mag and you can put a folding stock on it too, it would take up even less room. Troy PAR has a folding stock. The Troy PAR can have all the evil features, including a folding/collapsible stock, because it is not a semiautomatic rifle, there for its not subject to any of the idiotic AWB feature ban language. It is pump action. For a centerfire semiautomatic detachable magazine rifle. which isn't banned by name, that is subject to the feature bans, if one fixes the magazine (containing no more than 10 rounds) into place then they can have all the evil features on the rifle they want. At that point, the only restriction from the current AWB would be the (eta: under) 30 inches in over all length. |
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Posted: 12/2/2015 10:12:46 AM EDT
[#24]
I was at Hillers a year or so ago and an older black gentleman was shooting his new Troy PAR and having a blast. I let his try my semi pre ban and he let my try his. We we're both surprised at the recoil difference. It was nice to see new blood getting into black rifles despite the hurdles.
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Posted: 12/9/2015 6:46:50 PM EDT
[#25]
A bit more from CTGT:
Tommytman: "So is this option not happening now?" MadSmith: "Politically, they can't say yes, legally, they can't say no. So we're hiring an attorney to write legal boilerplate, and will be including that, and a copy of the ATF determination letter with each one that goes out the door starting Jan." |
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Posted: 12/9/2015 7:02:23 PM EDT
[#26]
Hmmm tommytman hungh? Well there it is. So now we wait till Jan.
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Posted: 12/10/2015 12:37:11 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A bit more from CTGT: Tommytman: "So is this option not happening now?" MadSmith: "Politically, they can't say yes, legally, they can't say no. So we're hiring an attorney to write legal boilerplate, and will be including that, and a copy of the ATF determination letter with each one that goes out the door starting Jan." Is this letter like the sig brace letter  
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Posted: 12/10/2015 1:20:39 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is this letter like the sig brace letter Will be interesting to see both letters either way. Will be funny if the letter end up like the Sig Brace letter. I do suspect however that someone at some point will probably end up being a test case for the FM14. Putting on the tinfoil beanie I could see SLFU sitting back and letting a few of the FM14's get transferred, then use the DPS-3-C form to track down the user and confront or even arrest them then sit back and let the courts make the final decision. |
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Posted: 12/10/2015 1:53:17 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Will be interesting to see both letters either way. Will be funny if the letter end up like the Sig Brace letter. I do suspect however that someone at some point will probably end up being a test case for the FM14. Putting on the tinfoil beanie I could see SLFU sitting back and letting a few of the FM14's get transferred, then use the DPS-3-C form to track down the user and confront or even arrest them then sit back and let the courts make the final decision. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is this letter like the sig brace letter Will be interesting to see both letters either way. Will be funny if the letter end up like the Sig Brace letter. I do suspect however that someone at some point will probably end up being a test case for the FM14. Putting on the tinfoil beanie I could see SLFU sitting back and letting a few of the FM14's get transferred, then use the DPS-3-C form to track down the user and confront or even arrest them then sit back and let the courts make the final decision. I imagine this is how it will go. I mean honestly, how else can it go? |
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Posted: 12/10/2015 3:32:43 PM EDT
[#30]
I would argue entrapment
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Posted: 12/10/2015 3:57:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would argue entrapment I would too. However, the problem we face is we are relying on the courts, several of which have previously ruled that even though the latest AWB is an infringement its OK because "public safety", to see it our way in this instance. I'm not optimistic they'd see it our way. 
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Posted: 12/11/2015 11:57:43 AM EDT
[#32]
SBHaven,
If that was the case, wouldn't they go after buyers of pre-ban as well? Those are being transferred on a regular basis. |
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Posted: 12/11/2015 12:30:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If that was the case, wouldn't they go after buyers of pre-ban as well? Those are being transferred on a regular basis. Oh they can try but they'd most likely loose since SLFU and a (former) Commissioner for DESPP both have indicated publicly that banned by name prebans can be bought/sold/possessed/transferred. Any non banned by name preban was always (eta: except between 4/4/13 and 6/18/13) good to go legally. DESPP: Pre-Ban Assault Weapons Former DESPP Commissioner: Pre-Ban Assault Weapons |
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Posted: 1/9/2016 8:09:19 AM EDT
[#34]
Another update, from CTGT:
After lengthy consultation with attorneys specializing in the firearms industry who are familiar with the horrible political conditions we have in CT, where the AG and the judges don't care about the letter of the law - I've decided that the best thing to do is to add another layer of insulation between the fascists in the state, and the buyer.
To that end, I've modified the design such that the barrel is cut down to 12.25in in length to make it NOT a pistol under CT law, including quadrail and foregrip, pistol buffer tube, and registering them with the ATF as NFA AOW, with a $5 transfer tax. Now that it is a full up AOW, the State will have the problem of contradicting the ATF if they want to argue that it is a 'rifle' or a 'pistol', as an AOW is by DEFINITION neither of those things. :evil: And you have an ATF tax stamp to prove it. We've started doing the form4 transfer paperwork on them. The low cost of a $5 transfer tax is a bonus to have the additional boilerplate and CYA paperwork to protect the buyers from potential depredations by the state. |
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Posted: 1/9/2016 8:26:58 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Another update, from CTGT: After lengthy consultation with attorneys specializing in the firearms industry who are familiar with the horrible political conditions we have in CT, where the AG and the judges don't care about the letter of the law - I've decided that the best thing to do is to add another layer of insulation between the fascists in the state, and the buyer.
To that end, I've modified the design such that the barrel is cut down to 12.25in in length to make it NOT a pistol under CT law, including quadrail and foregrip, pistol buffer tube, and registering them with the ATF as NFA AOW, with a $5 transfer tax. Now that it is a full up AOW, the State will have the problem of contradicting the ATF if they want to argue that it is a 'rifle' or a 'pistol', as an AOW is by DEFINITION neither of those things. :evil: And you have an ATF tax stamp to prove it. We've started doing the form4 transfer paperwork on them. The low cost of a $5 transfer tax is a bonus to have the additional boilerplate and CYA paperwork to protect the buyers from potential depredations by the state. i thought an AOW stamps was 5 PLUS the 200.. maybe im wrong |
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Posted: 1/9/2016 8:39:31 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i thought an AOW stamps was 5 PLUS the 200.. maybe im wrong Quote HistoryQuoted:
i thought an AOW stamps was 5 PLUS the 200.. maybe im wrong Its only $5. From the ATF... What is the tax on the transfer of an NFA firearm?
The tax is $200 for the transfer of any firearm except a firearm classified as an “any other weapon” which is $5. An unserviceable firearm may be transferred as a curio or ornament without payment of the transfer tax. [26 U.S.C. 5811, 5852(e) and 5845(h); 27 CFR 479.11, 479.82 and 479.91] |
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Posted: 1/9/2016 9:02:06 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i thought an AOW stamps was 5 PLUS the 200.. maybe im wrong Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Another update, from CTGT: After lengthy consultation with attorneys specializing in the firearms industry who are familiar with the horrible political conditions we have in CT, where the AG and the judges don't care about the letter of the law - I've decided that the best thing to do is to add another layer of insulation between the fascists in the state, and the buyer.
To that end, I've modified the design such that the barrel is cut down to 12.25in in length to make it NOT a pistol under CT law, including quadrail and foregrip, pistol buffer tube, and registering them with the ATF as NFA AOW, with a $5 transfer tax. Now that it is a full up AOW, the State will have the problem of contradicting the ATF if they want to argue that it is a 'rifle' or a 'pistol', as an AOW is by DEFINITION neither of those things. :evil: And you have an ATF tax stamp to prove it. We've started doing the form4 transfer paperwork on them. The low cost of a $5 transfer tax is a bonus to have the additional boilerplate and CYA paperwork to protect the buyers from potential depredations by the state. i thought an AOW stamps was 5 PLUS the 200.. maybe im wrong It's a $5 transfer on a Form 4 but $200 if you make it yourself on a Form 1 |
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Posted: 1/9/2016 9:29:07 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's a $5 transfer on a Form 4 but $200 if you make it yourself on a Form 1 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Another update, from CTGT: After lengthy consultation with attorneys specializing in the firearms industry who are familiar with the horrible political conditions we have in CT, where the AG and the judges don't care about the letter of the law - I've decided that the best thing to do is to add another layer of insulation between the fascists in the state, and the buyer.
To that end, I've modified the design such that the barrel is cut down to 12.25in in length to make it NOT a pistol under CT law, including quadrail and foregrip, pistol buffer tube, and registering them with the ATF as NFA AOW, with a $5 transfer tax. Now that it is a full up AOW, the State will have the problem of contradicting the ATF if they want to argue that it is a 'rifle' or a 'pistol', as an AOW is by DEFINITION neither of those things. :evil: And you have an ATF tax stamp to prove it. We've started doing the form4 transfer paperwork on them. The low cost of a $5 transfer tax is a bonus to have the additional boilerplate and CYA paperwork to protect the buyers from potential depredations by the state. i thought an AOW stamps was 5 PLUS the 200.. maybe im wrong It's a $5 transfer on a Form 4 but $200 if you make it yourself on a Form 1 ahh thanks |
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Posted: 1/9/2016 11:43:55 AM EDT
[#39]
Is it me or is this now very complicated ?
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Posted: 1/9/2016 12:05:46 PM EDT
[#40]
Well now you need to wait for the paperwork
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Posted: 1/10/2016 1:10:56 PM EDT
[#41]
That's a nice little additional "safety' measure.
I suppose it adds to the wait, but having the stamp is a good measure of piece of mind. |
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Posted: 1/10/2016 2:04:48 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a nice little additional "safety' measure. I suppose it adds to the wait, but having the stamp is a good measure of piece of mind. I don't get why they are going the AOW route and I don't see the value of NFA registration as a mechanism to prove state law legality. While NFA Branch has a policy of not approving making and transfer / registration applications for firearms that violate state law, part of the application is an attestation by the applicant that the firearm/ making/ transfer comply with state law. Since ATF doesn't necessarily have full knowledge of the nature of the firearm in front of them, it is conceivable that based on the knowledge they have, the information on the application, and the attestation, that a Legal Instruments Examiner could easily approve an application that might violate state law. (Note that I am not making any statement about any specific firearm or making any suggestions about course of action anybody should take.) |
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Posted: 1/10/2016 9:23:14 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't get why they are going the AOW route and I don't see the value of NFA registration as a mechanism to prove state law legality. While NFA Branch has a policy of not approving making and transfer / registration applications for firearms that violate state law, part of the application is an attestation by the applicant that the firearm/ making/ transfer comply with state law. Since ATF doesn't necessarily have full knowledge of the nature of the firearm in front of them, it is conceivable that based on the knowledge they have, the information on the application, and the attestation, that a Legal Instruments Examiner could easily approve an application that might violate state law. (Note that I am not making any statement about any specific firearm or making any suggestions about course of action anybody should take.) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That's a nice little additional "safety' measure. I suppose it adds to the wait, but having the stamp is a good measure of piece of mind. I don't get why they are going the AOW route and I don't see the value of NFA registration as a mechanism to prove state law legality. While NFA Branch has a policy of not approving making and transfer / registration applications for firearms that violate state law, part of the application is an attestation by the applicant that the firearm/ making/ transfer comply with state law. Since ATF doesn't necessarily have full knowledge of the nature of the firearm in front of them, it is conceivable that based on the knowledge they have, the information on the application, and the attestation, that a Legal Instruments Examiner could easily approve an application that might violate state law. (Note that I am not making any statement about any specific firearm or making any suggestions about course of action anybody should take.) Registering it as an AOW means the feds say it isn't a pistol and it isn't a rifle. Very difficult for CT to say it is one or the other when the ATF state that it is not. It is simply a firearm
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Posted: 1/10/2016 9:38:53 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Registering it as an AOW means the feds say it isn't a pistol and it isn't a rifle. Very difficult for CT to say it is one or the other when the ATF state that it is not. It is simply a firearm
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That's a nice little additional "safety' measure. I suppose it adds to the wait, but having the stamp is a good measure of piece of mind. I don't get why they are going the AOW route and I don't see the value of NFA registration as a mechanism to prove state law legality. While NFA Branch has a policy of not approving making and transfer / registration applications for firearms that violate state law, part of the application is an attestation by the applicant that the firearm/ making/ transfer comply with state law. Since ATF doesn't necessarily have full knowledge of the nature of the firearm in front of them, it is conceivable that based on the knowledge they have, the information on the application, and the attestation, that a Legal Instruments Examiner could easily approve an application that might violate state law. (Note that I am not making any statement about any specific firearm or making any suggestions about course of action anybody should take.) Registering it as an AOW means the feds say it isn't a pistol and it isn't a rifle. Very difficult for CT to say it is one or the other when the ATF state that it is not. It is simply a firearm
except state laws are allowed to conflict with federal laws so long as the state law is more restrictive |
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Posted: 1/29/2016 12:50:23 PM EDT
[#45]
Cross posting from CTGT.
https://www.facebook.com/TheFreedomShoppe/photos/a.624380597645596.1073741833.252848974798762/952872421463077/?type=3 
CT Legal FM14-S PDW Semi-automatic .223/5.56x45 magazine fed compact Personal Defense Weapon Also available in 300AAC, 9mm, 5.7x28, 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 Base model as pictured (minus optional sights) $850. ATF AOW tax prepaid. |
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Posted: 1/29/2016 12:54:08 PM EDT
[#46]
so they are transferring?
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Posted: 1/29/2016 8:09:52 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so they are transferring? check their facebook page |
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Posted: 1/29/2016 10:57:30 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
check their facebook page Quote HistoryQuoted:
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so they are transferring? check their facebook page How about a simple Yes/No for the people who don't use Hatebook? |
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Posted: 1/29/2016 11:16:43 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How about a simple Yes/No for the people who don't use Hatebook? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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so they are transferring? check their facebook page How about a simple Yes/No for the people who don't use Hatebook? I don't know either, I was just saying that's the best place to look. |
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Posted: 1/29/2016 11:30:48 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know either, I was just saying that's the best place to look. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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so they are transferring? check their facebook page How about a simple Yes/No for the people who don't use Hatebook? I don't know either, I was just saying that's the best place to look. They are transferring them via a $5 NFA stamp. |
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