Hundreds, if not thousands of people openly and brazenly defied the government.

Just sayin'.

I can't get enough people to notice when I do it.

Ok so what do we do?

Different battles call for different tactics, but I agree.

IMO, too much word was getting out down there. Their fight is not over, not by a long shot. They will wait for everyone to go home and/or stop watching, and they will pick up where they left off.

Imagine if 60 or 70 (or 500) people here in CT held a rifle shoot at someone's property and it was an open secret that unregistered rifles were welcome (if not encouraged)?

They wouldn't do a thing. This state has no backbone

Nothing stops police from simply setting up a "dui checkpoint" on the road(s) leading to/from that location and trolling for so called illegal firearms.

Where there's a will...there's a way.

Have fun storming the castle!

Yeah, but the department of the interior will be back. They'll regroup with a different strategy.




Frequently, since around the time I realized that we were lied to about the whole "weapons of mass destruction" crap, after we attacked Iraq, I've fantasized about this (the storming the castle idea). And more and more since then, as we all recognize that nothing but lies and corruption come out of the government, I've fantasized about it more and more. More than I should admit.

There ARE people in this country who KNOW that a revolution is quite possibly the only way we're going to have any say in our country. They know that their vote has absolutely no affect on elections at the national level. Yet we all vote anyway. And most of those who are pessimistic about whether they actually have any say in the system, are still willing to tolerate the way things are, because we're NOT at the point where we're all jobless, or where we can't get trustworthy medical help, or where the economy has flattened out, or where there's no more freedom, etc.

Just how bad is it supposed to get, before we decide to actually fucking do something?

I'm bold faced serious when I ask that question.

Even though we've all been taught how America became "The Land of the Free", and proud men chose to possibly sacrifice all they had, to make their world a better place for their children... Who, today, is willing to recognize that we ARE at the EXACT same point that our forefathers were, when they decided to say "No" to the king, back in 1776. We're there.

We're. There.

Re-read the Declaration of Independence. Almost word for word, you could easily transcribe it and use it against the Obama administration. Word for fucking word.



*sigh*



I dunno'... My line's been drawn in the sand a LONG time ago. I hope the existing 3% isn't too dispersed around the country, to make a difference, the way it did during the Revolutionary War.

Hell yeah...

And they're not illegal... They're 'undocumented'.

Bro, remember my speech last week? I crafted it word-by-word for a reason. Our situation is nearly a carbon copy of what our ancestors went through. You are spot-on, bud. Spot-on.

 
 
 
















 

Thomas Jefferson's words in the Declaration of Independence, are the single greatest uses of the English language, EVER written. We can only aspire to be even half as literate as that man was.



Anyway... Hearing it read back to you, tends to raise your level of emotion. Too bad there are more sheep in that clip, than there are true, understanding patriots.

There's SO many ignorant people in this country.

I assume our forefathers dealt with the same amount of complacent citizens, who were willing to tolerate a lack of freedom, in sake of the illusion of "security", similar to what we have today. Which is where the whole "3%" comes from.

Only, back then, the entirety of the American population was assembled within the original 13 states. Now, we've got people scattered all across the entire country, and spread thin. Laws vary from state to state, regarding firearms and their transportation, concealment, etc. So, getting to these hot zones can be difficult, when called to arms.


Unless we take the fight to them first.

The only thing I disagree about is the allocation of the 3%. There were 3% in thirteen states back then, but there are 3% in 50 states now. They are spread out, but they are still 3% of a total population.

3% is no thinner now than 3% was back then.


Also, I personally believe the longer the situation we are in now gets drawn out, the greater that percentage will rise. Also for consideration, 3% fought, 13% supported. While the situation is not identical and we are not engaged in a violent revolution as of yet, I believe the number for support would be much higher now than it was then. If the question was posed today, while I can't say with certainty about a violent revolution, something like 70% of people today would say something needs to be done and that big brother is out of control. Even this socialist fuckwad I work with concedes that much. That doesn't say 70% is for revolution, but 70% think something needs doing.

Thomas Jefferson is my idle.

Yeah, but it's harder to get to those who need help in California, while we're here in Connecticut. And vice versa.

Before, we were kinda' in a nice, tight little package. Now we're in a blue state, surrounded by blue states and have to go through at least one, to get to a "free" state.

That's what I mean by "spread thin".

I get what you mean, but 3% is 3%. Cali has its 3%, as does CT and MA, and NY etc. Granted 3% is an estimate, and probably low at that.


Hell, I could make the argument that it is EASIER to rally up/mobilize today than it was back then. Sure, the distances CAN be greater, but they could only walk back then. I could get to Cali quicker today than a Mainer could get to Delaware back then. And thats only for physical travel. Back then they'd have to wait days just for the information to get around. Today, we get information instantly.

I believe one of the biggest reasons why our ancestors said "FUCK YOU" on the Lexington Green when their government told them to drop their weapons and disperse is the fact that back then every single possession, every single thing anyone owned came at great cost. We're literally talking blood, sweat, and tears. Cattle? Garden? Home? Horse? Gun? Wagon? Wife? Children? Money? It was all obtained through very difficult and challenging processes. Because of this, anytime someone threatened to take any of it from you, you got your dander up pretty quickly.

Nowadays, we are so prosperous (yes, even the poor among us are prosperous compared to previous generations) that losing many things is no big deal most of the time.

Back then, losing your horse, home, wagon, or gun meant your family might not last the week.

Interesting point - I've never really thought about it like that.


Maybe if every gun was made by Larue or Noveske, we could say the same today.

Completely agree.

I also like to point out to people that there were probably times when the founding fathers were all fired up and George Washington screamed "FUCK THAT GUY! I'M GONNA KILL HIM." Everyone was like calm down George. Of course when you win the war, all the paintings and writings are all civilized looking.

There is no need for violent revolution and in fact the powers that be are BEGGING for that now. They are in such need of violence abroad and domestically that they would love somebody to start shooting federal or state agents. Why? Because this country is economically destroyed by the policies and blatant theft of the oligarchy that has usurped control of every branch of our federal government.

This is the end game for our country if faith in the dollar fails, and it should. Historically either they create a massive world/civil war or they wither away into the obscurity of other failed empires. They need the war to cover their own crimes and to forgive the debt that will only come from worldwide destruction of production capacity. Funny thing is the United States has gutted our industrial capacity. The people who own us don't suffer from a sense of nationalism.

There's not much we can do to alter the trajectory at this point but you can help. Don't participate. Don't obey. Keep true to your own moral compass and ignore the edicts of this failed state. Help support those around us who warrant that support in our own local communities.

But you have to be smart about it. This isn't a king several months and 2000 miles away. This is a cancer right here in every state backed by enough firepower to reduce the first "domestic insurgents" to ashes post haste.

Cancer will kill itself eventually if it has no fuel. Money and compliance of the productive populace are that fuel.

This is 100% right, and the reason why despite all our internet uproar there isn't going to be a revolution. Even with CT's shit economics, we're still worlds better off than most all of the planet, to say nothing of the countries that actually experience violent civil wars/revolutions. Further, no matter who's yelling about Obama or Malloy or Bush or anyone, there is still general acceptance of the legitimacy of our political system, and the ability to work within it. Our gun laws suck, but it does not come near the level of repression traditionally required to mobilize forces for drastic change. Maybe most importantly, there really isn't a feeling that there's much to gain from a revolution compared to what would be lost.

What percentage of the country cares enough about gun laws, unconstitutional as they may be, to risk all of their possesions and possibly their life? Even out of gun owners, the number would be tiny. It's easy to forget we're in an echo chamber here, with everybody talking about the next revolution, keeping their guns for when the SHTF, etc, but hey, nobody started shit because nobody feels the potential reward (or tiny chance of success) is worth the almost certain arrest/death.

Things were MUCH tougher back then, that much is certain. The enemy was a foreign colonial power, the economic situations of most were much worse, the benefits were much higher (not only self-determination, but all the land in the Ohio River Valley and west that the British denied the colonists), and the chance of victory and general support were much greater.

Right.

Disagree. The British government was every bit as much "our" government in 1775 as the current federal government is today. In fact, I think our gripes with today's government mirror down to minute details many, if not most of the gripes our ancestors had with the British.

The British gov after 1763 was poised far more as an other than people seem to realize. There were obviously huge loyalist populations, but to many the continued stationing of troops after the French, the supposed reason for their presence, had lost their northern colonies caused many to look on the crown as a meddling power, as did things like the refusal to open the Ohio river valley. There was a really good book on this a few years ago about the shift in British positions titled "Scratch of a Pen" that goes into that.

E: I 100% disagree on the assessment that Brit/Colonial relations are remotely similar to our relations with the fed or state gov today, but that's not really a bad thing. I've really no desire for my home to be a battlefield.

and that's what the state and feds are counting on,people that are to comfy and will give up Liberty for that cozy "security",
...as in do what we say and we won't come take whats left,maybe.
Cram it down our throats one shitty spoonful at a time.
I'm sure no Colonialist wanted their homes to be battlefields but they sure as hell
didn't want them to be the domain of the king either.

Yep. I'm fine admitting that my life is good enough that living with this BS is better than enduring widespread death and destruction at home. Apparently the same is true for those here as well. If it's worth all the suffering and horrors a civil war entails, and it's as imminent as everyone here seems to say, what's everyone waiting for?

What did the Colonials wait for? Why did the US wait to enter WWI or WWII,simply silly to say nothing will ever happen because the time is not right now.
Silly to assume there is no breaking point and to assume that everyone has that same point, but watch the snowball get bigger and bigger once it starts rolling.

thats some good stuff

That's true in that every state, always, could eventually develop precursors for a revolution. We do not have these conditions now, which is the point. For all the internet bravado, we're all taking that shit, nobody is starting a revolution, nor can any of us now, just as horrible Fed abuses at Waco and Ruby ridge didn't touch shit off. Besides being offputting, hoping and waiting for a revolution is pointless. I'm taking a step to get out from under it by moving. It sucks, but if you're waiting for a revolution to right all the wrongs of CT, you'll be waiting awhile.

first hand knowledge?

Yeah, just peep my crystal ball

This post is redeemable for any of my goods, firearms, uglier daughters, or attractive livestock should a revolution topple the US government in my lifetime.

Brother, you laid into me a couple weeks ago in a post I made.   Your premise was generally, that I was preaching to the choir.  I tried not to take offense, and I didn't really.  


This post of yours I quoted above is truly powerful, and I thank you for posting it.  I am in total agreement.  Thank you.

The biggest thing to take away from the Bundy range war is that we need to be peaceful. We need to point cameras at the thugs, not weapons. The instant you resort to violence is the instant the state wins. They are much better at violence than you are, they have more experience and more training, and you automatically look crazy and lose in the court of public opinion.

If instead you video record everything then people will see the situation as it truly is, government goons come around with weapons and take people's rightful property with violence and aggression. Color of law, the unconstitutional words written on paper and signed by politicians, means nothing when you can show the world that the police come to your house, point guns at you, and threaten to take what you own as it happens.

Do not fire the first shot, it guarantees your defeat.

It doesn't have to be a "civil war"

Again, look to Nevada.

And what are your guns for if they are not worth fighting for?  Hobbies?

This conversation got fucking retarded. Let's make one thing clear, here and now; you are talking about civil war, not revolution. I am not waiting for a civil war, I do not want a civil war. Who the fuck honestly wants a civil war? Nobody. There are no victors in a civil war - but if me fighting one today were to guarantee my kids did not have to tomorrow, then let it be so.

As for REVOLUTION, there will be no waiting, and its too late for anybody to "start" it. To those of us who stand peacefully in defiance, who strike up conversations with and educate our counterparts, who get involved, attend meetings, create groups like the CCDL and CTCARRY, who donate to the NRA, who attend meetings and campaign for righteous politics, who run for office and WIN. . . For those of us, the revolution has already started.

Open your eyes, waffles - nobody is waiting for a revolution. You don't have to wait, the revolution is here. Revolution does not mean war.. A militia of armed ranchers just turned a crooked FED agency away, Colorado OUSTED its political "leaders", 3000+ men just stood armed on the steps of our states capitol with supporters from all over New England and the country, NY and CT combine for over 1,000,000 un-registered guns in defiance of tyranny. Waffles, friend, that IS a revolution. It is here, it has been here, the revolution is alive and well.

I don't know you or what you contribute so I will not speak ill of you. But I must say it sounds an awful lot like you projecting personal ideals and beliefs on us. You say you are moving away ASAP- you tell me you are letting tyranny drive you from the place you call home - and you mean to tell me what I am doing is pointless? Nuts! You are holding a sign that reads "forward to save freedom" while you sound the retreat. You're free to do as you wish, but you have no ground to stand on when it comes to talking about those who stand their ground now.

ETA: It is our responsibility as patriots to first pursue and exhaust every single peaceful means of extinguishing the evil that is burning our country down. The more peacefully this can be accomplished, the more victory can be achieved.

I'm staying and fighting. I'd love to pick up and move down south. But my life is here. And that's not moving anywhere.


Plus I can't live without snow

I just watched this video made by the guy who runs http://stormcloudsgathering.com/


You wanna' see what the Bundy Ranch confrontation was really about?


Edited to add... I LOVE the words this guy uses in his videos. I fucking LOVE IT!

No, let's be clear. Revolution is the destruction of the old state apparatus. It is not deposing a president and replacing with someone else like a coup. Do you really think anybody's going to peacefully take down the entire US government, especially when you want the example for it to be armed men standing up to the feds? It is war. And yeah, I am moving. Revolution, or whatever you envision is not coming. Since it's not coming, I'm moving somewhere where I can enjoy a little more of my hobby (and yeah, it's primarily a hobby for me. If called to, would I ever completely disarm? Probably not, my rowboat is really leaky donchaknow, but I'm not anxious to kill or be killed with them as the sole reason), get a better job, enjoy better scenery, live cheaper, and all of that. I'm in a unique position where I am able and willing to move. I know that many aren't, and I'm sorry that I'm not as optimistic on the prospects of changing CT. I sold guns and my road bike to donate, I went to rallies, I wrote letters, emails, made calls, even personally reached out to a legislator I ran into. We're stuck in a shit place right now. Using the legitimate measures of the state, we lost. We had numbers, common sense, and the fucking state and US constitution on our side, and it didn't save us. People compare our plight to those of the founding fathers, and I'm saying that while arfcom is full of people saying they're ready to do what it takes, the conditions that would motivate essentially anyone else to take that risk are not there. Rather than being in limbo, I'm choosing to leave. I don't want to live in a state like this, and I've exhausted my options to change it. Staying and trying to change things is admirable. I wanted that too, but hey, now there's one less college grad paying taxes into CT's life support fund. Everybody gotta do what they gotta do. (FWIW, I agree on defying the law, both this one and the one before it. If this is all you're saying, yeah, blue on blue)

e: Just a quick thing, not trying to get personal with anyone on this. Just ever since Newtown there's been so much "time to bury em time to use em", "the 2nd american revolution almost started", "when the shit starts", etc on here, CTGT, and at some of the...ahem...no longer operating stores that it's kinda pushing my buttons. I miss when shooting was fun with my buddies, not hoping for shit to pop off, not constantly discussing what we'd do if the state popo tried to confiscate, not trying to figure out how we can make our rifles as normal as possible without going to jail. That's not the main reason that I'm moving, but shit man, I can't wait to get back to that.

Here's a pretty good Set of Pictures that most people haven't seen of the confrontation.

I dunno'... To me, it looks like the American government is not an ally to the American people.

Unless you have more people on your side.  Then maybe.  But for the most part you are correct.  Some of the largest movements in history were successful because they were non violent......of course there were others where they all just ended up dead.

 

Unfortunately in the real world, we don't just get to pick definitions for the sake of our side of the argument. Unless of course you're a progressive liberal politician.
For your consideration-

Revolution: - a dramatic and wide-reaching change in the way something works or is organized or in people's ideas about it.
                  - a forcible overthrow of a government or social order in favor of a new system.
synonyms:rebellion, revolt, insurrection, mutiny, uprising, riot, rioting, insurgence, seizure of power, coup (d'état)

If you consider what happened in CO anything short of revolution, you are a delusional pessimist. Yes, power was overthrown. No, there was no war.

Yes, 3000 armed men protested peacefully. Is that not revolting? It certainly was not war.



All those things you "miss", I still have and here in CT. That is a result of your doing, your perceptions and perspectives, no one else's. That's exactly what I'm talking about when I say projecting. If shooting is no longer fun with your buddies, who's fault is that? You think leaving here and shooting elsewhere is going to change the issue? I doubt it.

If I'm tired of anything in this state, it's defeatists. One less won't hurt us, no offense.

^^^I agree completely^^^

I'm a bit baffled by how you consider people working within the system to remove legislators they disagreed with, again, as the system was set up to do, revolutionary. Under that very broad definition, the CO thing doesn't qualify. There was not a widespread change in the way people thought, what they thought, or how things worked. They believed in their 2nd Amendment rights, their legislature did not. They exercised the political rights they already had, and removed offending legislators. There was no "dramatic and wide-reaching change in the way something works or is organized or in people's ideas about it" nor was there "a forcible overthrow of a government or social order in favor of a new system". There was what would have happened in CT if we had enough right minded people, voters using their rights to recall (or in our case deny re-election, lord knows we've had enough time to know where they stood before Newtown) politicians that they no longer felt represented them.

And best of luck with CT. Bizarrely enough, CO is where I'm headed. I was mostly sick of having to fly to do any serious mountain climbing, but the guns are a nice benefit too. You're right though, I am defeatist about this state. Not just on guns either. Job prospects are awful, the cost of living is through the roof, we have too many people, and we're surrounded by states going through the same shit we are. I'm not living my life on the prospect that some miracle is going to befall CT and all will be led into the light of freedom. I'm exercising my right to get the fuck out and live a life I can be happy with, and if you can do that in CT, more power to you :)

Zergs is kinda giving me a boner

The Bundy standoff is moving

Some got tased, livestock has died

Part of the problem is the Fed is the single largest landowner and restricts usage as they see fit

That old commie hippie Woody Guthrie said it ," this land is your land this land is my land..." Collectivism and centralization of power

Z, this could be an issue of a payoff got use of the grazing land for a solar farm

Always a back story with graft and payoff to govt officials

Sounds like USSR style politics

And nobody gives a fuck

you two should hug

I briefly read something about that. A chinese investor to boot, I believe. The only thing that doesn't add up about that - if they own that much land, why wouldn't they just opt for an un-used plot? Apparently they own like 90% of the west, and solar isn't that picky.

Crazy situation. If big brother is not too big for its britches, well . . . .


Saw something similar may go down around the TX/OK border or some shit. Something about flood land being seized and more farmers getting pissed..

Nein, ich habe nur hug Feuerwehrmann.