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Posted: 4/16/2014 6:49:19 AM EDT
[#1]
Wtf
Are they going to not give me a stamp on a 9mm can because I can't prove that I'll be putting it on a 9mm host? 
What if I wanted to SBR a bolt action?
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Posted: 4/16/2014 6:50:13 AM EDT
[#2]
Thanks for the update, can you link us to the"Bradford" letter? I have a pre-ban going through now, so I want to be prepared when the letter comes in.
I do have a letter from Bushmaster, but still these hoops are bullshit! EDIT: Does anyone remember back during the federal ban how this was handled? Did they require preban proof? |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 7:19:41 AM EDT
[#3]
ATF was fuckin with me too. Kicked back my forms twice because of illegible signature and unable to read CLEO title.
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Posted: 4/16/2014 7:51:26 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ATF was fuckin with me too. Kicked back my forms twice because of illegible signature and unable to read CLEO title. If they have an issue with an illegible signature I'm fucked...I dont know too many people that you can read their signature. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 6:33:51 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the update, can you link us to the"Bradford" letter? I have a pre-ban going through now, so I want to be prepared when the letter comes in. I do have a letter from Bushmaster, but still these hoops are bullshit! EDIT: Does anyone remember back during the federal ban how this was handled? Did they require preban proof? The Bradford letter is posted on the CCDL website |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 6:39:56 AM EDT
[#6]
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Well got a call from a nice lady at the ATF this morning looking for my AW cert that I don't have because I didn't register my pre ban,so I tell her that pre Sept 13 1994 fireams don't have to be registered and could be transferred in CT,so she tells me to get a letter from the DESPP stating so, as we were talking more she found the letter that Bradford sent out saying all pre bans are GTG she tells me she will call me back and let me know what the examiner says.I sent in my pistol permit and when I asked her why that wasnt good enough she said they need an AW cert.Probly screwed if they want date of manufacture. If this happens to anyone else, simply send or give them them the SLFU/DESPP PDF link on the preban statute (Sec 53-202m). Edit to add: The former commissioner of DESPP (Bradford) reply letter to Attorney David Clough about prebans. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 8:28:41 AM EDT
[#7]
Really, jest freaking perfect. I e-filed a form 1 Nov 19th and later dates are getting approved in the Genaral Class 3 board.
This one is preban, so I don't need nor do I have an AW certificate for it. I do have an e-mail from Bushmaster saying what date it was made on. Supposedly there is no way to update or amend an e-file form, and their whole system is offline right now. Looks like I'm getting bent over. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 8:32:32 AM EDT
[#8]
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ATF may view approving a Form 1 as manufacturing a new firearm (somehow making all Form 1 items post-ban) while CT views the original mfg date of the receiver as the birthday. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll definitely be watching this thread as I just submitted a Form 1 for a pre-ban. I had a trust drafted and I bought a pre-ban specifically to build an SBR. If the ATF gives me a hard time I'm going to be really pissed. I'm very curious to find out if proof of manufacture date will be sufficient to satisfy the ATF. ATF may view approving a Form 1 as manufacturing a new firearm (somehow making all Form 1 items post-ban) while CT views the original mfg date of the receiver as the birthday. If they consider it being a new firearm manufacture, then you can't have an SBR with nice features at all. You can't make a new AW in CT. They're banned. Even if you have the AW registration certificate ATF better not say you're making a new AW. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 8:56:23 AM EDT
[#9]
I wonder what that means for the exempted folks who don't have to register, maybe supply credentials?
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Posted: 4/17/2014 8:59:44 AM EDT
[#10]
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I wonder what that means for the exempted folks who don't have to register, maybe supply credentials? Interesting arguments over equal application of the law here |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 9:00:58 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting arguments over equal application of the law here Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I wonder what that means for the exempted folks who don't have to register, maybe supply credentials? Interesting arguments over equal application of the law here It is indeed. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 5:00:13 PM EDT
[#12]
Update......well Pain was right on with his prediction, got my stamp today.
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Posted: 4/22/2014 3:14:57 AM EDT
[#13]
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Update......well Pain was right on with his prediction, got my stamp today. Who was your examiner? Mine has been assigned to Ted Clutter. I'm working with him to get my pre-ban form 1 SBR approved. I'll let you all know how it goes. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 4:24:25 AM EDT
[#14]
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Who was your examiner? Mine has been assigned to Ted Clutter. I'm working with him to get my pre-ban form 1 SBR approved. I'll let you all know how it goes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Update......well Pain was right on with his prediction, got my stamp today. Who was your examiner? Mine has been assigned to Ted Clutter. I'm working with him to get my pre-ban form 1 SBR approved. I'll let you all know how it goes. I just sent my form 1, for a pre-ban, to my local PD and when I get it back it will be going to the ATF, please let me know what you figure out with them. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 4:29:28 AM EDT
[#15]
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Who was your examiner? Mine has been assigned to Ted Clutter. I'm working with him to get my pre-ban form 1 SBR approved. I'll let you all know how it goes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Update......well Pain was right on with his prediction, got my stamp today. Who was your examiner? Mine has been assigned to Ted Clutter. I'm working with him to get my pre-ban form 1 SBR approved. I'll let you all know how it goes. What has he asked you for? |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 9:26:26 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What has he asked you for? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Update......well Pain was right on with his prediction, got my stamp today. Who was your examiner? Mine has been assigned to Ted Clutter. I'm working with him to get my pre-ban form 1 SBR approved. I'll let you all know how it goes. What has he asked you for? Well, after seeing this post I called about my 11/19 application for SBR. The person on the phone told me there is an issue status on it and it has been assigned to supervisor Ted Clutter. He was out that day so she patched me through to his voice mail. I left him a message and he called me back later the same day. He asked what I called about. I said I was told there was an issue and asked him if he could see the details. He didn't really state a specific issue, just clarified that I was applying for SBR in CT. I asked how familiar he is with the CT law and he said not very. I explained that my firearm is a pre-ban and doesn't need to be registered. He asked if I had a letter from the state explaining that it was OK. He didn't want to call DESPP/SFLU, he needs something in writing. He told me to e-mail him with any relevant documentation I could, so I sent him an e-mail with the links posted in this thread by sbhaven and several attachments. I attached my CT pistol permit, an e-mail from Bushmaster saying my lower was made before 1994, and a copy of the letter from DESPP/SFLU that is hosted on CCDL's site and is linked to in this thread. TL/DR : He didn't ask for anything specifically, but said he wasn't familiar with the law. I sent him some info on CT law regarding pre-bans and proof that my rifle is pre-ban via e-mail. Now I'll wait a couple weeks and pray. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 11:28:08 AM EDT
[#17]
Thanks CTGunner.Did you get that email from Bushmaster recently?
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Posted: 4/22/2014 1:05:50 PM EDT
[#18]
Not really, the e-mail from Bushmaster was from Feb 2012.
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Posted: 4/22/2014 5:51:29 PM EDT
[#19]
Examiner was Shawn Cook.......Last stamp I got on January 2013 was done by Chris Farris, that one only took six months to get, this one took 11 months.
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Posted: 4/24/2014 1:25:03 PM EDT
[#20]
Got another letter today asking for an aw cert i think I am fucked
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Posted: 4/25/2014 5:11:15 AM EDT
[#21]
Still waiting for progress on an eform trust form 1 started in Jan to SBR registered glock. No request yet for additional info and no AW forms back yet anyway.
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Posted: 4/25/2014 5:45:15 AM EDT
[#22]
I was told by the ATF they are having a meeting today on whats going on with pre bans here.ETA who I was told by
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Posted: 4/25/2014 5:59:29 AM EDT
[#23]
I still haven't paid my mag tax. I think I'm screwed
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Posted: 4/25/2014 8:04:03 AM EDT
[#24]
Just got a call back from the ATF and was told pre bans don't matter because you are making a firearm so you need an AW cert to do a form 1
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Posted: 4/25/2014 8:27:53 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just got a call back from the ATF and was told pre bans don't matter because you are making a firearm so you need an AW cert to do a form 1 You gotta be kidding me! |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 8:59:32 AM EDT
[#26]
Ok, think about the above logic. If you are making a "NEW" firearm then what good is the AW Cert since you can't make a new one? Also wasn't there precedent set on pre-bans remaining as such even after a form 1?
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Posted: 4/25/2014 9:02:36 AM EDT
[#27]
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Just got a call back from the ATF and was told pre bans don't matter because you are making a firearm so you need an AW cert to do a form 1 What the fuck What if it's AWB compliant at time of form 1? |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 9:05:50 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
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Just got a call back from the ATF and was told pre bans don't matter because you are making a firearm so you need an AW cert to do a form 1 What the fuck What if it's AWB compliant at time of form 1? Interesting... looks like I called it 
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I'll definitely be watching this thread as I just submitted a Form 1 for a pre-ban. I had a trust drafted and I bought a pre-ban specifically to build an SBR. If the ATF gives me a hard time I'm going to be really pissed. I'm very curious to find out if proof of manufacture date will be sufficient to satisfy the ATF. ATF may view approving a Form 1 as manufacturing a new firearm (somehow making all Form 1 items post-ban) while CT views the original mfg date of the receiver as the birthday. |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 9:08:52 AM EDT
[#29]
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You gotta be kidding me! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just got a call back from the ATF and was told pre bans don't matter because you are making a firearm so you need an AW cert to do a form 1 You gotta be kidding me! Makes no sense. They must mean proof of manufacture date is required. |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 9:13:49 AM EDT
[#30]
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Interesting... looks like I called it
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just got a call back from the ATF and was told pre bans don't matter because you are making a firearm so you need an AW cert to do a form 1 What the fuck What if it's AWB compliant at time of form 1? Interesting... looks like I called it
Quoted:
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I'll definitely be watching this thread as I just submitted a Form 1 for a pre-ban. I had a trust drafted and I bought a pre-ban specifically to build an SBR. If the ATF gives me a hard time I'm going to be really pissed. I'm very curious to find out if proof of manufacture date will be sufficient to satisfy the ATF. ATF may view approving a Form 1 as manufacturing a new firearm (somehow making all Form 1 items post-ban) while CT views the original mfg date of the receiver as the birthday. So all of our pre-ban SBR's from before 4/4/13 were illegal because they were new firearms Nice to know |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 9:29:22 AM EDT
[#31]
Looks like my MP15 will become a SBR vs my pre ban
This is all a bunch of bull shit |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 9:38:40 AM EDT
[#32]
I just sent an email to Sen Kissel's office over this. I'm hoping he can talk with DESPP and have DESPP clear up this issue.
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Posted: 4/25/2014 10:02:26 AM EDT
[#33]
Wait
How the duck does the ATF know what you are registering or making? The details on the F1 don't include the key details for them to determine |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 10:16:30 AM EDT
[#34]
I just received my form 1 back from my local PD today so now I'm pissed!
ETA: you would think the police chief's signature on a a form be enough to show that what you are doing is legal. |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 10:40:16 AM EDT
[#35]
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Wait How the duck does the ATF know what you are registering or making? The details on the F1 don't include the key details for them to determine The F1 (if I'm looking at the correct form) does. The information they ask on the form includes: Description of Firearm (complete items a through i) a. Name and Location of Original Manufacturer of Firearm (Receiver) (If prototype, furnish plans and specifications) (See Instruction 2i) b. Type of Firearm to be made (See instruction 1c) c. Caliber, Gauge or Size (Specify) d. Model Length (Inches) e. Of Barrel: f. Overall g. Serial Number (See instruction 2i.) h. Additional Description (Include all numbers and other identifying data which will appear on the firearm) i. State Why You Intend To Make Firearm (Use additional sheet if necessary) |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 12:32:35 PM EDT
[#36]
Well this doesn't make sense on at least three levels.
1) If it is creating a new assault weapon, then presenting an AW certificate shouldn't matter, it would still be making a new AW. 2) CT doesn't consider it making a new firearm, only ATF does. CT sees it for what it really is, putting a shorter barrel on a rifle. Barrel length doesn't play any part in whether a firearm is considered an AW. So it is simply reconfiguring an existing AW as far as CT is concerned and of course we're going through the process to comply with making a new firearm as the ATF sees it. ATF can't impose their laws on CT. They're just supposed to make sure it is compliant with CT law, which it is. 3) Its already been dun be fo! Nothing has changed in CT regarding pre-bans. New law, old law, they're exempt either way. Either it was and is OK or it was and is illegal. Did the ATF approve a bunch of pre-ban SBRs under the old law? Wankers. |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 12:35:21 PM EDT
[#37]
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The F1 (if I'm looking at the correct form) does. The information they ask on the form includes: Description of Firearm (complete items a through i) a. Name and Location of Original Manufacturer of Firearm (Receiver) (If prototype, furnish plans and specifications) (See Instruction 2i) b. Type of Firearm to be made (See instruction 1c) c. Caliber, Gauge or Size (Specify) d. Model Length (Inches) e. Of Barrel: f. Overall g. Serial Number (See instruction 2i.) h. Additional Description (Include all numbers and other identifying data which will appear on the firearm) i. State Why You Intend To Make Firearm (Use additional sheet if necessary) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wait How the duck does the ATF know what you are registering or making? The details on the F1 don't include the key details for them to determine The F1 (if I'm looking at the correct form) does. The information they ask on the form includes: Description of Firearm (complete items a through i) a. Name and Location of Original Manufacturer of Firearm (Receiver) (If prototype, furnish plans and specifications) (See Instruction 2i) b. Type of Firearm to be made (See instruction 1c) c. Caliber, Gauge or Size (Specify) d. Model Length (Inches) e. Of Barrel: f. Overall g. Serial Number (See instruction 2i.) h. Additional Description (Include all numbers and other identifying data which will appear on the firearm) i. State Why You Intend To Make Firearm (Use additional sheet if necessary) Where does it say of it is a semi or has ban Features? |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 1:26:49 PM EDT
[#38]
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Where does it say of it is a semi or has ban Features? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wait How the duck does the ATF know what you are registering or making? The details on the F1 don't include the key details for them to determine The F1 (if I'm looking at the correct form) does. The information they ask on the form includes: Description of Firearm (complete items a through i) a. Name and Location of Original Manufacturer of Firearm (Receiver) (If prototype, furnish plans and specifications) (See Instruction 2i) b. Type of Firearm to be made (See instruction 1c) c. Caliber, Gauge or Size (Specify) d. Model they are the ATF-they have a department that examines firearms Length (Inches) e. Of Barrel: f. Overall They are aware that in Ct there are new laws and they will not approve anything that is not legal in CT g. Serial Number (See instruction 2i.) h. Additional Description (Include all numbers and other identifying data which will appear on the firearm) i. State Why You Intend To Make Firearm (Use additional sheet if necessary) Where does it say of it is a semi or has ban Features? |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 2:16:06 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where does it say of it is a semi or has ban Features? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wait How the duck does the ATF know what you are registering or making? The details on the F1 don't include the key details for them to determine The F1 (if I'm looking at the correct form) does. The information they ask on the form includes: Description of Firearm (complete items a through i) a. Name and Location of Original Manufacturer of Firearm (Receiver) (If prototype, furnish plans and specifications) (See Instruction 2i) b. Type of Firearm to be made (See instruction 1c) c. Caliber, Gauge or Size (Specify) d. Model Length (Inches) e. Of Barrel: f. Overall g. Serial Number (See instruction 2i.) h. Additional Description (Include all numbers and other identifying data which will appear on the firearm) i. State Why You Intend To Make Firearm (Use additional sheet if necessary) Where does it say of it is a semi or has ban Features? But that's not what you asked. You asked; "how the duck does the ATF know what you are registering or making" then stated "the details on the F1 don't include the key details for them to determine". The form clearly does have the information for the ATF to determine the make, type, caliber, barrel length, and overall length of the firearm one is applying for. Furthermore it states right on the form the following; "Under Penalties of Perjury, I Declare that I have examined this application, including accompanying documents, and to the best of my knowledge and belief it is true, accurate and complete and the making and possession of the firearm described above would not constitute a violation of Chapter 44, Title 18, U.S.C., Chapter 53, Title 26, U.S.C., or any provisions of State or local law." Because you are attesting that the firearm conforms to state law they are asking you to prove it, since to make an SBR one is shortening the barrel and in the process the entire overall length of the firearm. If that overall length is under 30 inches it makes it (a semiautomatic centerfire rifle) an AW under state law. So the ATF is asking one to prove that the firearm is legal under state law by making the applicant send in the Certificate of Possession which would show the firearm is legal under CT law. The problem some may have comes with prebans. If the ATF demands all CT firearms must be accompanied by a Certificate of Possession (CoP) regardless of date of manufacture how do those without them, obtain them? The state statute says one doesn't need a CoP for pre 9/13/94 manufactured firearms and the cut off date for applying for the CoP has come and gone (1/1/14). What is the person to do if the ATF still demands the CoP for a preban? We have a similar running discussion over on CTGT where this preban issue has cropped up. Edit to add: Additionally under the "Instructions" on the form it states the following: 7. Reasons for Disapproval. 26 U.S.C. § 5822 provides that applications shall be denied if the making or possession of the firearm would place the maker in violation of law. a. State or Local Law. If State or local law prohibits the making or possession of the firearm being made, the application will be disapproved. |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 3:06:02 PM EDT
[#40]
That is such bullshit!! What did they do during the federal ban!?!?!?!?
It wasn't considered making a new firearm then. Fuckers making new rules. |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 3:33:52 PM EDT
[#41]
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Just got a call back from the ATF and was told pre bans don't matter because you are making a firearm so you need an AW cert to do a form 1 Which is interesting logic. If in fact the current interpretation being used by ATF is that making a title II firearm from a title I firearm voids the preban status, causing it to be subject to the certificate requirment; how would making a (CT papered) title I firearm into a title II firearm per an approved form 1 not create a similar illegal act, in that the resulting (new) firearm is no longer the one represented on the COP (and arguably wouldn't be eligible for one, due to the fact that it was acquired after the effective date of PA 13-3)? |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 3:44:45 PM EDT
[#42]
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But that's not what you asked. You asked; "how the duck does the ATF know what you are registering or making" then stated "the details on the F1 don't include the key details for them to determine". The form clearly does have the information for the ATF to determine the make, type, caliber, barrel length, and overall length of the firearm one is applying for. Furthermore it states right on the form the following; "Under Penalties of Perjury, I Declare that I have examined this application, including accompanying documents, and to the best of my knowledge and belief it is true, accurate and complete and the making and possession of the firearm described above would not constitute a violation of Chapter 44, Title 18, U.S.C., Chapter 53, Title 26, U.S.C., or any provisions of State or local law." Because you are attesting that the firearm conforms to state law they are asking you to prove it, since to make an SBR one is shortening the barrel and in the process the entire overall length of the firearm. If that overall length is under 30 inches it makes it (a semiautomatic centerfire rifle) an AW under state law. So the ATF is asking one to prove that the firearm is legal under state law by making the applicant send in the Certificate of Possession which would show the firearm is legal under CT law. The problem some may have comes with prebans. If the ATF demands all CT firearms must be accompanied by a Certificate of Possession (CoP) regardless of date of manufacture how do those without them, obtain them? The state statute says one doesn't need a CoP for pre 9/13/94 manufactured firearms and the cut off date for applying for the CoP has come and gone (1/1/14). What is the person to do if the ATF still demands the CoP for a preban? We have a similar running discussion over on CTGT where this preban issue has cropped up. Edit to add: Additionally under the "Instructions" on the form it states the following: 7. Reasons for Disapproval. 26 U.S.C. § 5822 provides that applications shall be denied if the making or possession of the firearm would place the maker in violation of law. a. State or Local Law. If State or local law prohibits the making or possession of the firearm being made, the application will be disapproved. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wait How the duck does the ATF know what you are registering or making? The details on the F1 don't include the key details for them to determine The F1 (if I'm looking at the correct form) does. The information they ask on the form includes: Description of Firearm (complete items a through i) a. Name and Location of Original Manufacturer of Firearm (Receiver) (If prototype, furnish plans and specifications) (See Instruction 2i) b. Type of Firearm to be made (See instruction 1c) c. Caliber, Gauge or Size (Specify) d. Model Length (Inches) e. Of Barrel: f. Overall g. Serial Number (See instruction 2i.) h. Additional Description (Include all numbers and other identifying data which will appear on the firearm) i. State Why You Intend To Make Firearm (Use additional sheet if necessary) Where does it say of it is a semi or has ban Features? But that's not what you asked. You asked; "how the duck does the ATF know what you are registering or making" then stated "the details on the F1 don't include the key details for them to determine". The form clearly does have the information for the ATF to determine the make, type, caliber, barrel length, and overall length of the firearm one is applying for. Furthermore it states right on the form the following; "Under Penalties of Perjury, I Declare that I have examined this application, including accompanying documents, and to the best of my knowledge and belief it is true, accurate and complete and the making and possession of the firearm described above would not constitute a violation of Chapter 44, Title 18, U.S.C., Chapter 53, Title 26, U.S.C., or any provisions of State or local law." Because you are attesting that the firearm conforms to state law they are asking you to prove it, since to make an SBR one is shortening the barrel and in the process the entire overall length of the firearm. If that overall length is under 30 inches it makes it (a semiautomatic centerfire rifle) an AW under state law. So the ATF is asking one to prove that the firearm is legal under state law by making the applicant send in the Certificate of Possession which would show the firearm is legal under CT law. The problem some may have comes with prebans. If the ATF demands all CT firearms must be accompanied by a Certificate of Possession (CoP) regardless of date of manufacture how do those without them, obtain them? The state statute says one doesn't need a CoP for pre 9/13/94 manufactured firearms and the cut off date for applying for the CoP has come and gone (1/1/14). What is the person to do if the ATF still demands the CoP for a preban? We have a similar running discussion over on CTGT where this preban issue has cropped up. Edit to add: Additionally under the "Instructions" on the form it states the following: 7. Reasons for Disapproval. 26 U.S.C. § 5822 provides that applications shall be denied if the making or possession of the firearm would place the maker in violation of law. a. State or Local Law. If State or local law prohibits the making or possession of the firearm being made, the application will be disapproved. Where duck does it say semi auto? Where duck does it say it takes a detachable mag? |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 3:57:53 PM EDT
[#43]
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Where duck does it say semi auto? Where duck does it say it takes a detachable mag? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wait How the duck does the ATF know what you are registering or making? The details on the F1 don't include the key details for them to determine The F1 (if I'm looking at the correct form) does. The information they ask on the form includes: Description of Firearm (complete items a through i) a. Name and Location of Original Manufacturer of Firearm (Receiver) (If prototype, furnish plans and specifications) (See Instruction 2i) b. Type of Firearm to be made (See instruction 1c) c. Caliber, Gauge or Size (Specify) d. Model Length (Inches) e. Of Barrel: f. Overall g. Serial Number (See instruction 2i.) h. Additional Description (Include all numbers and other identifying data which will appear on the firearm) i. State Why You Intend To Make Firearm (Use additional sheet if necessary) Where does it say of it is a semi or has ban Features? But that's not what you asked. You asked; "how the duck does the ATF know what you are registering or making" then stated "the details on the F1 don't include the key details for them to determine". The form clearly does have the information for the ATF to determine the make, type, caliber, barrel length, and overall length of the firearm one is applying for. Furthermore it states right on the form the following; "Under Penalties of Perjury, I Declare that I have examined this application, including accompanying documents, and to the best of my knowledge and belief it is true, accurate and complete and the making and possession of the firearm described above would not constitute a violation of Chapter 44, Title 18, U.S.C., Chapter 53, Title 26, U.S.C., or any provisions of State or local law." Because you are attesting that the firearm conforms to state law they are asking you to prove it, since to make an SBR one is shortening the barrel and in the process the entire overall length of the firearm. If that overall length is under 30 inches it makes it (a semiautomatic centerfire rifle) an AW under state law. So the ATF is asking one to prove that the firearm is legal under state law by making the applicant send in the Certificate of Possession which would show the firearm is legal under CT law. The problem some may have comes with prebans. If the ATF demands all CT firearms must be accompanied by a Certificate of Possession (CoP) regardless of date of manufacture how do those without them, obtain them? The state statute says one doesn't need a CoP for pre 9/13/94 manufactured firearms and the cut off date for applying for the CoP has come and gone (1/1/14). What is the person to do if the ATF still demands the CoP for a preban? We have a similar running discussion over on CTGT where this preban issue has cropped up. Edit to add: Additionally under the "Instructions" on the form it states the following: 7. Reasons for Disapproval. 26 U.S.C. § 5822 provides that applications shall be denied if the making or possession of the firearm would place the maker in violation of law. a. State or Local Law. If State or local law prohibits the making or possession of the firearm being made, the application will be disapproved. Where duck does it say semi auto? Where duck does it say it takes a detachable mag? At this point, you should hire a lawyer and sue the ATF, who knows, you just might win. You would then be a hero in Connecticut |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 4:30:19 PM EDT
[#44]
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Where duck does it say semi auto? Where duck does it say it takes a detachable mag? For starters it doesn't matter if the rifle takes a detachable magazine or not. The qualifier(s) is a semiautomatic centerfire rifle when it comes to the under 30 inch BS rule. If one is putting down, for example; Stag Arms, rifle, AR-15 (or Model 2), 2.23 (or 5.56) for the name of original manufacturer, type, model, and caliber. The ATF can make an "educated guess" that you have a semiautomatic centerfire rifle there for ask for the certificate of possession for it. If you don't have a semiautomatic centerfire rifle then I assume one would be telling ATF that and would show them the state statute language that indicates the under 30 rule applies to semiautomatic centerfire rifles. If ATF still demanded the certificate of possesson then I would venture to say its lawyer time to try and resolve the impasse with ATF. |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 5:27:33 PM EDT
[#45]
Are we going to be able to see this "ruling" in writing?
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Posted: 4/25/2014 5:37:43 PM EDT
[#46]
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Are we going to be able to see this "ruling" in writing? probably not unless you write the ATF and ask for a ruling on the matter- the ruling you will receive only applies to you. The only way to stop this is to sue or ........... |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 5:39:17 PM EDT
[#47]
THE BATFE has very broad powers however they have lost in court before! it just takes some money- like a lot of money and a good judge
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Posted: 4/25/2014 7:05:28 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
probably not unless you write the ATF and ask for a ruling on the matter- the ruling you will receive only applies to you. The only way to stop this is to sue or ........... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Are we going to be able to see this "ruling" in writing? probably not unless you write the ATF and ask for a ruling on the matter- the ruling you will receive only applies to you. The only way to stop this is to sue or ........... Then I guess we should each call and or write and get our own opinion then. Not like they have anything else to do but talk to us(LOL). |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 7:25:02 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For starters it doesn't matter if the rifle takes a detachable magazine or not. The qualifier(s) is a semiautomatic centerfire rifle when it comes to the under 30 inch BS rule. If one is putting down, for example; Stag Arms, rifle, AR-15 (or Model 2), 2.23 (or 5.56) for the name of original manufacturer, type, model, and caliber. The ATF can make an "educated guess" that you have a semiautomatic centerfire rifle there for ask for the certificate of possession for it. If you don't have a semiautomatic centerfire rifle then I assume one would be telling ATF that and would show them the state statute language that indicates the under 30 rule applies to semiautomatic centerfire rifles. If ATF still demanded the certificate of possesson then I would venture to say its lawyer time to try and resolve the impasse with ATF. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Where duck does it say semi auto? Where duck does it say it takes a detachable mag? For starters it doesn't matter if the rifle takes a detachable magazine or not. The qualifier(s) is a semiautomatic centerfire rifle when it comes to the under 30 inch BS rule. If one is putting down, for example; Stag Arms, rifle, AR-15 (or Model 2), 2.23 (or 5.56) for the name of original manufacturer, type, model, and caliber. The ATF can make an "educated guess" that you have a semiautomatic centerfire rifle there for ask for the certificate of possession for it. If you don't have a semiautomatic centerfire rifle then I assume one would be telling ATF that and would show them the state statute language that indicates the under 30 rule applies to semiautomatic centerfire rifles. If ATF still demanded the certificate of possesson then I would venture to say its lawyer time to try and resolve the impasse with ATF. Ok I saw that part about the detachable mag the first two times you answered me on it. But the ATF has no fucking clue if the rifle is semi auto or not. They can guess all they want. But they really don't know what it is, and are not in the business of telling you unless you ask them or run afoul of federal law. They can make all the educated guesses they want, but if I pull the gas tube on an SBR build on a pre-ban as a straight pull rifle, register it on the NFA registry, and then convert it back to semi-auto after the stamp comes in, it wouldn't violate NFA, nor would it violate the state AWB. |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 7:25:53 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
THE BATFE has very broad powers however they have lost in court before! it just takes some money- like a lot of money and a good judge Nutter can you register a Duck as a short barreled mallard? |
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