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Posted: 9/26/2016 8:54:30 PM EDT
So I read a thread a few weeks back pointing out that the VDGIF Regulations Digest says (and I quote) "Shotgun barrels must be at least 18 inches long" (source, Hunting & Trapping in VA, July 2016-June 2017, page 20, Legal Use of Firearms and Archery Tackle).

Well, that stuck in my craw, so I fired off an email to VDGIF and posed the question:
Is this minimum barrel length actually codified in Virginia statute or VDGIF regulation or is it a "carryover" regulation related to the minimum barrel length for Title I shotguns under Federal law (e.g. National Firearms Act of 1934)?  If it is so codified, I would very much like a cite for the statute or regulation.
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Today I got a call from a nice VDGIF officer who confirmed my suspicion, that the 18" barrel length is not codified anywhere in Virginia hunting regulations, and is a carry-over from Virginia code which prohibits barrels shorter than 18", unless you have a stamp.  

§ 18.2-303.1. What article does not prohibit.

Nothing contained in this article shall prohibit or interfere with the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle for scientific purposes, the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle possessed in compliance with federal law or the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle not usable as a firing weapon and possessed as a curiosity, ornament, or keepsake.
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His explicit statement was, that if you have a stamped SBS, and you carry that Form 1/4 with you while hunting (to prove it's a legal firearm), and you are otherwise legal with respect to shotgun hunting rules (plugged mag for migratory, shot size limitations, not using slugs in no-slug counties etc.) you are PERFECTLY LEGAL to use a shotgun of whatever barrel length you want to hunt game in Virginia.

DSC_5312-Turkey SBS by FredMan, on Flickr
Link Posted: 9/27/2016 9:03:18 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
So I read a thread a few weeks back pointing out that the VDGIF Regulations Digest says (and I quote) "Shotgun barrels must be at least 18 inches long" (source, Hunting & Trapping in VA, July 2016-June 2017, page 20, Legal Use of Firearms and Archery Tackle).

Well, that stuck in my craw, so I fired off an email to VDGIF and posed the question:
Is this minimum barrel length actually codified in Virginia statute or VDGIF regulation or is it a "carryover" regulation related to the minimum barrel length for Title I shotguns under Federal law (e.g. National Firearms Act of 1934)?  If it is so codified, I would very much like a cite for the statute or regulation.
View Quote


Today I got a call from a nice VDGIF officer who confirmed my suspicion, that the 18" barrel length is not codified anywhere in Virginia hunting regulations, and is a carry-over from Virginia code which prohibits barrels shorter than 18", unless you have a stamp.  

§ 18.2-303.1. What article does not prohibit.

Nothing contained in this article shall prohibit or interfere with the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle for scientific purposes, the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle possessed in compliance with federal law or the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle not usable as a firing weapon and possessed as a curiosity, ornament, or keepsake.
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His explicit statement was, that if you have a stamped SBS, and you carry that Form 1/4 with you while hunting (to prove it's a legal firearm), and you are otherwise legal with respect to shotgun hunting rules (plugged mag for migratory, shot size limitations, not using slugs in no-slug counties etc.) you are PERFECTLY LEGAL to use a shotgun of whatever barrel length you want to hunt game in Virginia.

<a href="https://flic.kr/p/G7vL66" target="_blank">https://c8.staticflickr.com/2/1543/26327976255_62dca3c3d1_c.jpg</a>DSC_5312-Turkey SBS by FredMan, on Flickr
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I'd be careful with that, you never know what flavor of Johnny Law or Johnny Game-Law you're gonna run into.  I think you'd be safter if you perhaps got an email from someone relatively high up at VDGIF and carried that around as well in case "some 'splainin'" is needed.

YMMV

ETA and that shotgun is badass dude, badass!
Link Posted: 9/27/2016 11:14:19 AM EDT
[#2]
Do you have the contact info for that officer? I would like to get this in writing myself. I was considering using my SBR for deer.
Link Posted: 9/27/2016 11:33:40 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I'd be careful with that, you never know what flavor of Johnny Law or Johnny Game-Law you're gonna run into.  I think you'd be safter if you perhaps got an email from someone relatively high up at VDGIF and carried that around as well in case "some 'splainin'" is needed.

YMMV

ETA and that shotgun is badass dude, badass!
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Quoted:
Quoted:
So I read a thread a few weeks back pointing out that the VDGIF Regulations Digest says (and I quote) "Shotgun barrels must be at least 18 inches long" (source, Hunting & Trapping in VA, July 2016-June 2017, page 20, Legal Use of Firearms and Archery Tackle).

Well, that stuck in my craw, so I fired off an email to VDGIF and posed the question:
Is this minimum barrel length actually codified in Virginia statute or VDGIF regulation or is it a "carryover" regulation related to the minimum barrel length for Title I shotguns under Federal law (e.g. National Firearms Act of 1934)?  If it is so codified, I would very much like a cite for the statute or regulation.


Today I got a call from a nice VDGIF officer who confirmed my suspicion, that the 18" barrel length is not codified anywhere in Virginia hunting regulations, and is a carry-over from Virginia code which prohibits barrels shorter than 18", unless you have a stamp.  

§ 18.2-303.1. What article does not prohibit.

Nothing contained in this article shall prohibit or interfere with the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle for scientific purposes, the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle possessed in compliance with federal law or the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle not usable as a firing weapon and possessed as a curiosity, ornament, or keepsake.


His explicit statement was, that if you have a stamped SBS, and you carry that Form 1/4 with you while hunting (to prove it's a legal firearm), and you are otherwise legal with respect to shotgun hunting rules (plugged mag for migratory, shot size limitations, not using slugs in no-slug counties etc.) you are PERFECTLY LEGAL to use a shotgun of whatever barrel length you want to hunt game in Virginia.

<a href="https://flic.kr/p/G7vL66" target="_blank">https://c8.staticflickr.com/2/1543/26327976255_62dca3c3d1_c.jpg</a>DSC_5312-Turkey SBS by FredMan, on Flickr


I'd be careful with that, you never know what flavor of Johnny Law or Johnny Game-Law you're gonna run into.  I think you'd be safter if you perhaps got an email from someone relatively high up at VDGIF and carried that around as well in case "some 'splainin'" is needed.

YMMV

ETA and that shotgun is badass dude, badass!


Simple response,  "what section of the VA code are you going to cite me with?"

They are going to have to charge you with some violation of the law,
They are going to have to write that section of the code on your ticket.  Or if the put you in cuffs and take you in they will have to bring you before the magistrate for charging.   What is the officer going to say "I arrested him because I don't think what he is doing is right".
Link Posted: 9/27/2016 1:36:42 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Simple response,  "what section of the VA code are you going to cite me with?"

They are going to have to charge you with some violation of the law,
They are going to have to write that section of the code on your ticket.  Or if the put you in cuffs and take you in they will have to bring you before the magistrate for charging.   What is the officer going to say "I arrested him because I don't think what he is doing is right".
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So I read a thread a few weeks back pointing out that the VDGIF Regulations Digest says (and I quote) "Shotgun barrels must be at least 18 inches long" (source, Hunting & Trapping in VA, July 2016-June 2017, page 20, Legal Use of Firearms and Archery Tackle).

Well, that stuck in my craw, so I fired off an email to VDGIF and posed the question:
Is this minimum barrel length actually codified in Virginia statute or VDGIF regulation or is it a "carryover" regulation related to the minimum barrel length for Title I shotguns under Federal law (e.g. National Firearms Act of 1934)?  If it is so codified, I would very much like a cite for the statute or regulation.


Today I got a call from a nice VDGIF officer who confirmed my suspicion, that the 18" barrel length is not codified anywhere in Virginia hunting regulations, and is a carry-over from Virginia code which prohibits barrels shorter than 18", unless you have a stamp.  

§ 18.2-303.1. What article does not prohibit.

Nothing contained in this article shall prohibit or interfere with the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle for scientific purposes, the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle possessed in compliance with federal law or the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle not usable as a firing weapon and possessed as a curiosity, ornament, or keepsake.


His explicit statement was, that if you have a stamped SBS, and you carry that Form 1/4 with you while hunting (to prove it's a legal firearm), and you are otherwise legal with respect to shotgun hunting rules (plugged mag for migratory, shot size limitations, not using slugs in no-slug counties etc.) you are PERFECTLY LEGAL to use a shotgun of whatever barrel length you want to hunt game in Virginia.

<a href="https://flic.kr/p/G7vL66" target="_blank">https://c8.staticflickr.com/2/1543/26327976255_62dca3c3d1_c.jpg</a>DSC_5312-Turkey SBS by FredMan, on Flickr


I'd be careful with that, you never know what flavor of Johnny Law or Johnny Game-Law you're gonna run into.  I think you'd be safter if you perhaps got an email from someone relatively high up at VDGIF and carried that around as well in case "some 'splainin'" is needed.

YMMV

ETA and that shotgun is badass dude, badass!


Simple response,  "what section of the VA code are you going to cite me with?"

They are going to have to charge you with some violation of the law,
They are going to have to write that section of the code on your ticket.  Or if the put you in cuffs and take you in they will have to bring you before the magistrate for charging.   What is the officer going to say "I arrested him because I don't think what he is doing is right".


Or you know, have a piece of paper tht might avoid that as an ace in the hole... whichever you want to do buddy.
Link Posted: 9/27/2016 3:00:14 PM EDT
[#5]
That Remington (20ga.?) is sweet!  What changes, if any, did you need to make it run reliably?
Link Posted: 9/27/2016 5:34:42 PM EDT
[#6]
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Or you know, have a piece of paper tht might avoid that as an ace in the hole... whichever you want to do buddy.
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You have way too much faith in the validity of an email from an unknown beauracrat.

I doubt if the fish cop doesn't know the law, and won't look it up for themselves that they would believe a random piece of paper in your pocket.  You might as well print out this thread and show it to him.
Link Posted: 9/27/2016 8:04:07 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
That Remington (20ga.?) is sweet!  What changes, if any, did you need to make it run reliably?
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Benelli M2, in 20 ga.  No changes other than getting the barrel chopped by Rose Action Sports (guncat here on ARF).  It's 12.5".

Behold!

And yes, it's a risk hunting with the SBS, particularly when the freakin' reg digest says 18" minimum.  It is, however, a risk I'm willing to take when hunting on family land.  Particularly when I know I'm in the right.

It will definitely be interesting, though, if I do have a showdown with the conservation officer; I'll be polite and firm.

ETA, I'm of a mind to write the director of the agency about this and suggest politely that they update the digest.  I do note that the digest also says my county is a shotgun-only county for deer when just this year the BoS voted to allow rifles for deer.  So don't believe everything you read in the digest.
Link Posted: 9/27/2016 8:19:59 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:



You have way too much faith in the validity of an email from an unknown beauracrat.

I doubt if the fish cop doesn't know the law, and won't look it up for themselves that they would believe a random piece of paper in your pocket.  You might as well print out this thread and show it to him.
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Quoted:


Or you know, have a piece of paper tht might avoid that as an ace in the hole... whichever you want to do buddy.



You have way too much faith in the validity of an email from an unknown beauracrat.

I doubt if the fish cop doesn't know the law, and won't look it up for themselves that they would believe a random piece of paper in your pocket.  You might as well print out this thread and show it to him.


You'd be surprised.
Link Posted: 9/27/2016 9:13:06 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
Do you have the contact info for that officer? I would like to get this in writing myself. I was considering using my SBR for deer.
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I use an SBR every time I am in rifle county. The cited regs in this thread are about shotguns.

How is an SBR different than a pistol? (As far as hunting regs are concerned)
Link Posted: 9/28/2016 7:00:08 AM EDT
[#10]
I would further examine this issue before officially challenging it in the field.  

It may not be a written code in Va, but it might be a game commission regulation.  

If it is a reg you be at risk of losing your hunting license for violating it.

Link Posted: 9/28/2016 11:52:14 AM EDT
[#11]
Very curious about the fish/bunny cops out here in VA, out West, they are awful but haven't heard too many horror stories about VA fish cops.
Link Posted: 9/28/2016 4:41:59 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I would further examine this issue before officially challenging it in the field.  

It may not be a written code in Va, but it might be a game commission regulation.  

If it is a reg you be at risk of losing your hunting license for violating it.

View Quote


The guy (who's name escapes me, dammit) specifically said there is no VDGIF reg about hunting with a SBS
Link Posted: 9/28/2016 4:54:08 PM EDT
[#13]
2014 Virginia Code
Title 29.1 - Game, Inland Fisheries and Boating
§ 29.1-519. Guns, pistols, revolvers, etc., which may be used; penalty

Universal Citation: VA Code § 29.1-519 (2014)

A. All wild birds and wild animals may be hunted with the following weapons unless shooting is expressly prohibited:

1. A shotgun or muzzleloading shotgun not larger than 10 gauge;

2. An automatic-loading or hand-operated repeating shotgun capable of holding not more than three shells the magazine of which has been cut off or plugged with a one-piece filler incapable of removal through the loading end, so as to reduce the capacity of the gun to not more than three shells at one time in the magazine and chamber combined, unless otherwise allowed by Board regulations;

3. A rifle, a muzzleloading rifle, or an air rifle;

4. A bow and arrow;

5. [Expired.]

6. A crossbow, which is a type of bow and arrow, in accordance with the provisions of § 29.1-306.

B. A pistol, muzzleloading pistol, or revolver may be used to hunt nuisance species of birds and animals.

C. In the counties west of the Blue Ridge Mountains, and counties east of the Blue Ridge where rifles of a caliber larger than .22 caliber may be used for hunting wild birds and animals, game birds and animals may be hunted with pistols or revolvers firing cartridges rated in manufacturers' tables at 350 foot pounds of energy or greater and under the same restrictions and conditions as apply to rifles, provided that no cartridge shall be used with a bullet of less than .23 caliber. In no event shall pistols or revolvers firing cartridges rated in manufacturers' tables at 350 foot pounds of energy or greater be used if rifles of a caliber larger than .22 caliber are not authorized for hunting purposes.

D. The use of muzzleloading pistols and .22 caliber rimfire handguns is permitted for hunting small game where .22 caliber rifles are permitted.

E. The use of muzzleloading pistols of .45 caliber or larger is permitted for hunting big game where and in those seasons when the use of muzzleloading rifles is permitted. The Board may adopt regulations that specify the types of muzzleloading pistols and the projectiles and propellants that shall be permitted.

F. The hunting of wild birds and wild animals with fully automatic firearms, defined as a machine gun in § 18.2-288, is prohibited.

G. The hunting of wild birds or wild animals with (i) weapons other than those authorized by this section or (ii) weapons that have been prohibited by this section shall be punishable as a Class 3 misdemeanor.

Code 1950, § 29-140; 1962, c. 469; 1964, c. 441; 1974, cc. 108, 302; 1977, c. 377; 1983, c. 166; 1987, c. 488; 1988, c. 162; 1989, c. 421; 1993, c. 684; 1998, c. 144; 2002, c. 157; 2005, c. 8; 2007, c. 643; 2014, cc. 117, 136.
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