anyone know the law on blade length for a folder?

I do not believe there is one.

I think the only length law is 3" or longer is banned on school property. Otherwise, no laws regarding length that I'm aware of.

Edit: Found the code section

§ 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited; penalty.

A. If any person knowingly possesses any (i) stun weapon as defined in this section; (ii) knife, except a pocket knife having a folding metal blade of less than three inches; or (iii) weapon, including a weapon of like kind, designated in subsection A of § 18.2-308, other than a firearm; upon (a) the property of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (b) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (c) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

I didn't know there was one or at least if there is I highly doubt it's enforced.  I mean, it would make very little sense if a CHP holder was stopped legally carrying two pistols but was booked for a Benchmade slightly longer than allowed.

All the more reason to revert back to concealed weapons permits!

This.

That's how I felt when the teenager at Bed, Bath and Beyond had to carry the kitchen knife I was trying to purchase to the register and escort me because "safety". Meanwhile I have a glock 27 on my hip.

Yep.  My daily carry knife is a Spyderco Endura, but when I go to a school function at the kid's HS I swap the Endura for a Dragonfly.

There is likely common (case) law in different jurisdictions.

Searching for it can be a nightmare.

It is likely to hinge on when a knife becomes a weapon [or 'deadly weapon'] and would require careful review of a lot of cases.

It's very unclear if you try to look at the case law on "concealed weapons" and knives.

The main theme that emerges is that the people who get charged tend to be convicted felons already, so read between the lines on that. But the case law still allows, in theory, for a lot of knives to become illegal if carried concealed.

I tried reading the VA code, and the language around dirks and daggers looks pretty antiquated. I can imagine
a cop on the side of the road trying to make a meaningful interpretation using that code and looking at a ~4"
fixed blade with a false edge.  

We need these guys:

http://www.kniferights.org/

As others have mentioned, it's silly that someone with a permit can carry a handgun or three, but OMG don't
get caught with one of these!



-Warren-

You are likely going to have to read transcripts of cases and not just final decisions.
A LOT of work.

What you're saying is it's an add-on charge for criminals or a way to bust someone when the police don't have another charge?  Makes sense.

I'd prefer the GA to revert back to pre-shall issue rules.  Not on the shall-issue, of course, but go back to having concealed weapons permits.

Silly and stupid.

I'd love and would prefer to carry a smaller fixed blade knife. But I'm not gonna run the chance and get jammed up on some cop stop. And loose my CHP because I happened to be concealing a fixed blade. Course you can open carry the things. But I'm not gonna worry about making sure my knife if OC when I'm trying to CCW a pistol.

One more reason to get involved in http://www.kniferights.org/

They are the VCDL on knife rights issues and legislation.

I don't have to do any of that to tell you what's going on here. All (or almost all) the case law on this subject is from the Virginia Court of Appeals, which for those who don't know is an intermediate appellate court inbetween the trial courts and the state supreme court. It is not a friendly place for criminals and I consider it to be all but a rubber stamp for the Commonwealth.

The problem with their decisions on knives is that they all involve felons carrying them concealed, which means zero sympathy from the court. But then the language about how you decide if it's a "weapon" is incredibly tortured, and it theoretically applies to every Jim Bob out there with a folder clipped in his front pocket. That language applies to EVERYONE, not just felons, in determining whether a knife is a "weapon" that cannot be carried concealed.

It's a big problem. If you carry any kind of knife in your pocket or otherwise concealed, you are completely at the mercy of any cop who discovers it. If you're not a felon/mope, they'll probably leave you alone, but they don't have to.

It SEEMS like it's a mopery charge for people who the police know are felons. Or an add-on for people who aren't felons but get whacked with something else and the cop decides to tack that on.

The problem, again, is that the language in the COA opinions captures an enormous array of knives, including most if not all of the common locking-blade folders that people carry every day. They can't say "we're only going to apply this to mopes," even if that is the unwritten rule. It's a symptom of the problem we have of legislating to the worst-behaved common denominator.

Reverting back to the concealed "weapon" permits would make a lot of sense. It's preposterous that I can walk around with loaded, concealed handguns but theoretically get arrested and jailed for having a folder.

W.E.G. can comment on this more intelligently but I believe that there is no clear standard on what can be carried concealed other then a common pocket knife.

We should push to make the the Concealed Handgun Permit a Concealed Weapons permit - would make it legal to carry knives without fear of being railroaded over a tactical folder or hunting knife.

I looked at this ages ago and the "like kind" language is the problem.  What exactly is "like" a dirk, bowie knife, or switchblade is open to interpretation.  If I recall, there is case law holding that butterfly knives are like a dirk.  It makes you wonder if some bad facts could render flippers and assisted opening knives to be like a switchblade.

The end result of this poorly worded law is that an officer can get away with charging someone for just about anything, and courts have a lot of discretion in rendering a conviction.

Just the opposite regarding butterfly knives.  Va supreme court held butterfly knives were not of like kind.  Thompson v Comm, 2009 case.  The supreme court tends to view of like kind narrowly.  Box cutters, with a razor blade, have been held to not be of like kind to razors, which are prohibited.  Agree it is still way too up for interpretation on the street, but there is a lot of limiting case law.  

The problem is that the SCV hasn't said much at all on this subject, and there are several COA cases that could easily be read to put common locking-blade folders into that "like kind" bucket.

Ohin v. Com., 622 S.E.2d 784, 47 Va. App. 194 (Va, 2005) is a good example.

You're right on Thompson, but that wasn't always the case.  In Ohin, mentioned by dbrowne1 below, the Court of Appeals in Chesapeake found that a butterfly knife was indeed of "like kind."



There are also prior cases, such as O'Banion v. Com., 519 S.E.2d 817, 30 Va.App. 709 (1999), holding that box cutters are of like kind.

Point being that VA's knife law is terrible.  An officer reading only the statute and not delving in the case law can charge someone for just about any knife and an overworked GDC can easily rubber stamp a conviction that you'll have to take up in circuit.

Virginia established the Court of APpeals in the early 1970s.
Before that we had nothing except Circuit Court to Supreme Court.

Few knife related cases ever made it the the Supreme Court.