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Posted: 2/19/2015 10:10:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Thanks for posting that link. I've been meaning to send a comment to ATF on this idiotic proposal, and that link made my job easier.
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Posted: 2/20/2015 12:21:43 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for posting that link. I've been meaning to send a comment to ATF on this idiotic proposal, and that link made my job easier. We need as many people as possible to send in emails, not just for ATF but so Congress can see that there are a lot of folks that are upset about this. Upset voters translates into upset Legislators which translates into a good chance of Congress taking that authority away from ATF. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 12:56:19 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:53:10 PM EDT
[#4]
Prices on this ammo seems to have already gone up by 25% to 35% if not more.
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Posted: 2/24/2015 3:58:16 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Prices on this ammo seems to have already gone up by 25% to 35% if not more. Yep, and Walmart has been cleaned out of the ZQI SS109 30-rd boxes. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 4:08:39 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, and Walmart has been cleaned out of the ZQI SS109 30-rd boxes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Prices on this ammo seems to have already gone up by 25% to 35% if not more. Yep, and Walmart has been cleaned out of the ZQI SS109 30-rd boxes. Well that's a pretty broad statement, considering I just picked up 9 boxes. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 11:44:40 PM EDT
[#7]
AIM just had a good sale on Swedish M885.
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Posted: 2/25/2015 12:43:08 AM EDT
[#8]
Done & posted link on F book!
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Posted: 2/26/2015 7:06:28 PM EDT
[#9]
Mark Warner responded to me about this. Ugh, I hope we can vote him and Kaine out when they're up for re-election.
******************************************* Dear Mr. TangledThorns, Thank you for contacting me to share your thoughts on a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) proposal to ban certain types of SS109 and M855 cartridges. I appreciate your contacting me on this issue. On February 13, 2015, ATF released a proposed framework that would ban ammunition made of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium that can be used in a handgun. In addition to reclassifying these popular kinds of ammunition as "armor piercing," the framework also provides guidance as to what ammunition is "primarily intended for sporting purposes," in accordance with the Gun Control Act of 1968. I encourage you to share your thoughts directly with ATF so that they may also benefit from your views as they formulate a final proposal. ATF has assured me that they will carefully consider all comments received on or before March 16, 2015. You may submit your comments in one of the following ways: Email : [email protected] . Fax: (202) 648-9741. Mail: Denise Brown, Mailstop 6N-602 Office of Regulatory Affairs, E nf orcement Programs and Services B ureau of Alcohol, Tob acco, Firearms, and Explosives 99 New York Av enue, NE, Washington, DC 20226 ATTN: AP Ammo Comments Again, thank you for contacting me. I will keep your opinion in mind should the Senate address this issue or other relevant legislation. For further information or to sign up for my newsletter please visit my website at http://warner.senate.gov . Sincerely, MARK R. WARNER United States Senator |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 10:09:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Ive owned AR 15 rifles since 1989 and have never fired a single round of it.......or possessed it .........Ive always shot m193
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Posted: 2/27/2015 10:36:39 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ive owned AR 15 rifles since 1989 and have never fired a single round of it.......or possessed it .........Ive always shot m193 I've owned them almost as long, and while I rarely use M855 - this is a horrible precedent and needs to be stopped on principle alone. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 12:46:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ive owned AR 15 rifles since 1989 and have never fired a single round of it.......or possessed it .........Ive always shot m193 I wasn't aware that Martin Niemöller had an arfcom account. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 1:10:24 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've owned them almost as long, and while I rarely use M855 - this is a horrible precedent and needs to be stopped on principle alone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ive owned AR 15 rifles since 1989 and have never fired a single round of it.......or possessed it .........Ive always shot m193 I've owned them almost as long, and while I rarely use M855 - this is a horrible precedent and needs to be stopped on principle alone. M193 is a deadlier round..........as in-flight bullet stability increases, lethality decreases.......M855 is a more stable in-flight round than M193, |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 1:17:55 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
M193 is a deadlier round..........as in-flight bullet stability increases, lethality decreases.......M855 is a more stable in-flight round than M193, Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ive owned AR 15 rifles since 1989 and have never fired a single round of it.......or possessed it .........Ive always shot m193 I've owned them almost as long, and while I rarely use M855 - this is a horrible precedent and needs to be stopped on principle alone. M193 is a deadlier round..........as in-flight bullet stability increases, lethality decreases.......M855 is a more stable in-flight round than M193, What does that have to do with anything? The issue here is tyranny, not ballistics. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 2:21:39 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What does that have to do with anything? The issue here is tyranny, not ballistics. This! -shooter |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 4:34:46 PM EDT
[#16]
I just got off the phone with the DC office of my Congresscritter (Forbes). I told him that I expect the Congressman to insert a rider into the DHS funding bill to prohibit the BATFE from banning ANY rifle ammunition whatsoever. His staffer claimed he didn't know how Forbes was going to vote on the DHS funding issue. My guess, he'll cave just like he did with the Cronmibus bill. He talks a good game but in the end, he's become a DC insider crony.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 10:15:08 PM EDT
[#17]
Got my can in from AIM today. Excellent service on their part! The only problem I see is that being Swedish ammo, it will only fire at politically correct targets.
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Posted: 2/28/2015 11:25:34 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Got my can in from AIM today. Excellent service on their part! The only problem I see is that being Swedish ammo, it will only fire at politically correct targets. That ammo (the Carl Gustaf) uses a bullet with a solid steel core (not just a penetrator cone) and the bullet is longer as a result. I'm actually surprised the ATF lets them import it. It's also Berdan primed, which you may or may not care about. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 7:26:53 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've owned them almost as long, and while I rarely use M855 - this is a horrible precedent and needs to be stopped on principle alone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ive owned AR 15 rifles since 1989 and have never fired a single round of it.......or possessed it .........Ive always shot m193 I've owned them almost as long, and while I rarely use M855 - this is a horrible precedent and needs to be stopped on principle alone. Agreed. |
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Posted: 3/3/2015 10:51:25 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've owned them almost as long, and while I rarely use M855 - this is a horrible precedent and needs to be stopped on principle alone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ive owned AR 15 rifles since 1989 and have never fired a single round of it.......or possessed it .........Ive always shot m193 I've owned them almost as long, and while I rarely use M855 - this is a horrible precedent and needs to be stopped on principle alone. 10-4 case law or legal precedent is something that can haunt us forever..as well as provide inroads to further erosion of your rights. I'm not a lawyer, bit I did spend 17 yrs researching case law to get my clients what they wanted case law never goes away.. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 8:49:57 AM EDT
[#21]
For those of us in the 2nd district, Congressman Rigell has a poll with comment section on his website.
https://rigell.house.gov/forms/form/?ID=3283 |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 2:44:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Senator Kaine replied...typical statements, I have made bold some of the best BS and did edit his reply to get below 2000 characters:
Thank you for contacting me about the regulation of armor-piercing ammunition. Every day, brave law enforcement officers risk their lives to make our communities safer. In return, government leaders have a responsibility to do all they can to help protect and support law enforcement. Congress passed the Law Enforcement Officers Protection Act in 1986, which defined and regulated armor-piercing ammunition, among other provisions. On February 13th, 2015 the ATF announced a draft framework for determining which projectiles qualify for the sporting exemption. This draft seeks to establish an objective set of guidelines that will create a fair and predictable process for exempting ammo. If this framework is implemented, the ATF will grant the sporting exemption to two types of projectiles: 1) a .22 caliber projectile that weighs less than 40 grains and is loaded into a rimfire cartridge; and 2) a projectile that is loaded into a cartridge that may be used only in a single-shot handgun. Under this new framework, 5.56mm projectiles would not be exempted; it would thus be illegal to manufacture, import, or sell them in most circumstances because those projectiles, when loaded into SS109 and M855 cartridges, could be used in a handgun other than a single-shot handgun. Used in these handguns, such ammunition poses a grave threat to our law enforcement officers. Please be assured that I will monitor the ATF's process for considering and implementing its proposed framework and I will be sure to keep your views on this important issue in mind. Thank you again for contacting me. Sincerely, Signature Tim Kaine |
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Posted: 3/6/2015 11:00:03 AM EDT
[#23]
this was Kaine's reply to my email about the idiocy of the m855 ban:
Thank you for contacting me about the regulation of armor-piercing ammunition. I appreciate hearing from you.
Every day, brave law enforcement officers risk their lives to make our communities safer. In return, government leaders have a responsibility to do all they can to help protect and support law enforcement. Congress passed the Law Enforcement Officers Protection Act in 1986, which defined and regulated armor-piercing ammunition, among other provisions. In response to concerns expressed by law enforcement officials, Congress prohibited two types of ammunition capable of penetrating body armor: 1) a projectile or projectile core that may be used in a handgun and that is constructed of certain specified metals; and 2) a full-jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket weighs more than 25 percent of its total weight. The law includes an exemption for ammunition that is "primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes" and gives the Attorney General the authority to determine which ammunition should be included in that category. Since 1986, the Attorney General has tasked the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) with evaluating which types of body armor-piercing ammunition should be included in the sporting exemption. On February 13th, 2015 the ATF announced a draft framework for determining which projectiles qualify for the sporting exemption. This draft seeks to establish an objective set of guidelines that will create a fair and predictable process for exempting ammo. If this framework is implemented, the ATF will grant the sporting exemption to two types of projectiles: 1) a .22 caliber projectile that weighs less than 40 grains and is loaded into a rimfire cartridge; and 2) a projectile that is loaded into a cartridge that may be used only in a single-shot handgun. Under this new framework, 5.56mm projectiles would not be exempted; it would thus be illegal to manufacture, import, or sell them in most circumstances because those projectiles, when loaded into SS109 and M855 cartridges, could be used in a handgun other than a single-shot handgun. Used in these handguns, such ammunition poses a grave threat to our law enforcement officers. The ATF is accepting public comments on its draft framework until March 16th, 2015. You may wish to share your concerns with the ATF at [email protected]. Public comments are a key avenue for citizens to make their voices heard. Please be assured that I will monitor the ATF's process for considering and implementing its proposed framework and I will be sure to keep your views on this important issue in mind. Thank you again for contacting me. Sincerely, Signature Tim Kaine |
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Posted: 3/9/2015 2:20:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Edited...VA-gunnut
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Posted: 3/9/2015 3:04:27 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Edited...VA-gunnut |
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Posted: 3/9/2015 5:10:46 PM EDT
[#26]
Edited...VA-gunnut
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Posted: 3/9/2015 5:18:03 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 3/9/2015 7:03:59 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Edited...VA-gunnut I've edited your post for two reasons. The first being the personal attacks you posted. That shit wouldn't fly in GD, and it sure isn't going to be allowed in here. Second, every bit of info you posted about M855 was inaccurate. If you choose not to use the ammo, that is fine and dandy. Not everyone has made the same choice, and the proposed ban on this ammo sucks on many levels. |
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Posted: 3/9/2015 8:44:38 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've edited your post for two reasons. The first being the personal attacks you posted. That shit wouldn't fly in GD, and it sure isn't going to be allowed in here. Second, every bit of info you posted about M855 was inaccurate. If you choose not to use the ammo, that is fine and dandy. Not everyone has made the same choice, and the proposed ban on this ammo sucks on many levels. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Edited...VA-gunnut I've edited your post for two reasons. The first being the personal attacks you posted. That shit wouldn't fly in GD, and it sure isn't going to be allowed in here. Second, every bit of info you posted about M855 was inaccurate. If you choose not to use the ammo, that is fine and dandy. Not everyone has made the same choice, and the proposed ban on this ammo sucks on many levels. 
And sorry for quoting the mess. 
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Posted: 3/9/2015 9:28:56 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've edited your post for two reasons. The first being the personal attacks you posted. That shit wouldn't fly in GD, and it sure isn't going to be allowed in here. Second, every bit of info you posted about M855 was inaccurate. If you choose not to use the ammo, that is fine and dandy. Not everyone has made the same choice, and the proposed ban on this ammo sucks on many levels. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Edited...VA-gunnut I've edited your post for two reasons. The first being the personal attacks you posted. That shit wouldn't fly in GD, and it sure isn't going to be allowed in here. Second, every bit of info you posted about M855 was inaccurate. If you choose not to use the ammo, that is fine and dandy. Not everyone has made the same choice, and the proposed ban on this ammo sucks on many levels. No problem.........dude attacked me first...........My information on M855 was partially taken from "Small Arms of the World" 12th edition, by Edward Clinton Ezell. If you would like to contact the Chesterfield County Virginia Sheriff's Office and confirm that they use M855 in their Courthouse rifles to defeat body armor then feel free to do so......this information was supplied to me by an employee who went through the training course with the ammo in question......... |
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Posted: 3/10/2015 7:36:26 AM EDT
[#31]
I'm not questioning that someone gave you incorrect info or not. It's quite possible the history of the bullet is what was confusing those that passed the info along.
There isn't a 5.56 round that won't penetrate soft armor. When discussing hard armor, there are lots of variables that come into play. Either way, when making comments that appear to support or being indifferent to something being banned, just because you don't choose to use that item, it tends to upset folks. It's no different then Fudds that say they don't care if AR15s are banned, just because they only own shotguns and bolt guns. Try to remember that we're all on the same side here. An attack against one's rights, should be considered an attack against all of our rights. |
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Posted: 3/10/2015 2:30:12 PM EDT
[#32]
It seems that the ATF is backing off this issue. For now.
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Posted: 3/10/2015 4:19:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It seems that the ATF is backing off this issue. For now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
It seems that the ATF is backing off this issue. For now. Just like I'll always be a slow-chargin' klutz of a guy <g>, 1911SFOREVER is e'er the optimist ... viewing a glass containing water, as being 'half full,' while to me it's 'half empty.' I fear that like moray eels -- a different slimy, though less dangerous, species -- those responsible for this (and other) infringement(s) will just retreat/hide while they consider new attack strategies. ====================================== On another note, for any of you close to the VCDL leadership, I read this just now in an Alert (from shortly after midnight this morning): At a town-hall meeting in South Carolina on Friday, Mr. Obama reflected on his failed efforts to enact gun legislation such as mandatory background checks on gun purchases. “The courts and state legislatures … have greatly restricted the ability to put in place common-sense gun safety laws like background checks,” Mr. Obama said. “So what we’ve done is we have tried as much as we can administratively to implement background checks and to make sure that we’re working with those states and cities and jurisdictions that are interested and willing to partner with us to crack down on the legal use of firearms, particularly handguns.” The president said there’s too much gun violence in America because legislators won’t stand up to the pro-gun lobby. “In the absence of more, what I would consider, heroic and courageous stances from our legislators both at the state level and the federal level, it is hard to reduce the easy availability of guns,” Mr. Obama said. “And as long as you can go into some neighborhoods and it is easier for you to buy a firearm than it is for you to buy a book… we’re going to continue to see unnecessary violence.” Is the quote correct? For sure? If so, may I suggest publicizing this to other 2A groups ... and citizens of the Commonwealth? Tons of ink from the press of the current regime about Quayle misspelling the word "potato" but nary a mention of cracking down on "legal" firearms use. "Cracking down" seems like a synonym for "infringing" to me. In other news ... there's been no word concerning efforts by the regime to make reading a more palatable option for those living in "some neighborhoods" (to re-use the term) or of possible tax-incentives for those entrepreneurs who might risk opening a bookstore or two in "some neighborhoods." |
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Posted: 3/10/2015 4:30:51 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 3/10/2015 5:19:54 PM EDT
[#35]
Please send in your comments still if you have not already. This is your only chance to get on the record about this proposal even though they appear to be backing down/delaying.
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Posted: 3/11/2015 10:08:10 AM EDT
[#36]
the vast majority of the comments received to date are critical of the framework, and include issues that deserve further study Translation: Ah, we see that many of you have mentioned that M193 is actually better at penetrating (hard) armor than M855, and that ALL cartridges in this caliber can penetrate soft armor. These issues deserve further study so that we can determine whether to ban ALL the ammo. Thank you kindly for hammering this point home. |
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