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Posted: 7/6/2014 9:02:31 AM EDT
[#1]
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First, you won't find any other state org that is worth supporting over the VCDL. No other gun rights group (in the country IMO) has accomplished as much as they have. Second, if you are having an issue with something the VCDL is doing, you should work within the group to fix those issues. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Thank you for the information, Bulldog. With actions like this one and another political incident last fall, I am lowering my VCDL membership a level, as Executive Member Levine's actions certainly do not reflect well on me. I'll find another gun group in VA to support financially.
First, you won't find any other state org that is worth supporting over the VCDL. No other gun rights group (in the country IMO) has accomplished as much as they have. Second, if you are having an issue with something the VCDL is doing, you should work within the group to fix those issues. I agree with VA-gunnut to all counts here (if anyone gives a crap). The VCDL has done more for VA than the NRA, which should tell you something. Not to slight the NRA, I am a member as well. I think his email to the business owner was a little "unprofessional", if you will, but It was well-intentioned. I would have just ignored it, had I received it. But the business owner chose to respond, and his response was way overboard. A simple "Yes, that's our policy", would have ended it. Why don't you try sending an email to the VCDL President and let him know that the email was worded improperly, and as a member, you take offense to the language/style in which it was written. My guess is he will write them differently in the future. Everyone makes a mistake now and again. On a side note, I think he was doing everyone the same service as listing other non-gun-friendly places, ala Toby Keith's. Which is a fine example, as people changed plans about spending money at that establishment due to the "gun ban". Again, I was a bit taken aback by the email chain as a whole, but as a business owner you never threaten someone, let alone on the interwebs, and then dare them to come pay you a visit. That's just asking for the crazy nut to show up at your house and boil your rabbit, if you get my drift. |
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Posted: 7/6/2014 11:47:20 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why don't you try sending an email to the VCDL President and let him know that the email was worded improperly, and as a member, you take offense to the language/style in which it was written. My guess is he will write them differently in the future. Everyone makes a mistake now and again. Because I'm still "waiting" for him to respond to an issue from last October that he said directly to me via email he was going to review and respond. I never saw a damn thing. |
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Posted: 7/6/2014 12:29:11 PM EDT
[#3]
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Because I'm still "waiting" for him to respond to an issue from last October that he said directly to me via email he was going to review and respond. I never saw a damn thing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why don't you try sending an email to the VCDL President and let him know that the email was worded improperly, and as a member, you take offense to the language/style in which it was written. My guess is he will write them differently in the future. Everyone makes a mistake now and again. Because I'm still "waiting" for him to respond to an issue from last October that he said directly to me via email he was going to review and respond. I never saw a damn thing. Send him another email. Do you realize how many emails PVC gets every single day? I do. A ton. If he didn't respond, it wasn't intentional. |
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Posted: 7/6/2014 12:41:11 PM EDT
[#4]
I'll just vote with my money, just like Ed implied in his email to the shop owner.
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Posted: 7/7/2014 5:53:30 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll just vote with my money, just like Ed implied in his email to the shop owner. I don't like Ed's or the gun shop owner's handling of this matter. The VCDL isn't perfect, but they are a very effective entity in supporting Virginia's gun rights. What other options do you have in mind that will offer the similar bang for your buck? |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 7:21:31 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't like Ed's or the gun shop owner's handling of this matter. The VCDL isn't perfect, but they are a very effective entity in supporting Virginia's gun rights. What other options do you have in mind that will offer the similar bang for your buck? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll just vote with my money, just like Ed implied in his email to the shop owner. I don't like Ed's or the gun shop owner's handling of this matter. The VCDL isn't perfect, but they are a very effective entity in supporting Virginia's gun rights. What other options do you have in mind that will offer the similar bang for your buck? VSSA 
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Posted: 7/7/2014 12:28:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
VSSA
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll just vote with my money, just like Ed implied in his email to the shop owner. I don't like Ed's or the gun shop owner's handling of this matter. The VCDL isn't perfect, but they are a very effective entity in supporting Virginia's gun rights. What other options do you have in mind that will offer the similar bang for your buck? VSSA
Hardly. |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 3:26:30 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll just vote with my money, just like Ed implied in his email to the shop owner. As much as I did not care for the VCDL to get involved in this matter (all involved were dicks IMHO) I think you are throwing out the baby with the bath water. You are very short-sighted if you think your money could be better spent. 
The VCDL is where the rubber meets the road in Virginia as far as our gun rights go. Were it not for the VCDL we would have been screwed long ago. It's not like the NRA ever stepped up to the plate in our Statehouse except to try to throw up barriers or take credit away from the accomplishments of the VCDL. |
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Posted: 7/9/2014 7:11:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As much as I did not care for the VCDL to get involved in this matter (all involved were dicks IMHO) I think you are throwing out the baby with the bath water. You are very short-sighted if you think your money could be better spent.
The VCDL is where the rubber meets the road in Virginia as far as our gun rights go. Were it not for the VCDL we would have been screwed long ago. It's not like the NRA ever stepped up to the plate in our Statehouse except to try to throw up barriers or take credit away from the accomplishments of the VCDL. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'll just vote with my money, just like Ed implied in his email to the shop owner. As much as I did not care for the VCDL to get involved in this matter (all involved were dicks IMHO) I think you are throwing out the baby with the bath water. You are very short-sighted if you think your money could be better spent.
The VCDL is where the rubber meets the road in Virginia as far as our gun rights go. Were it not for the VCDL we would have been screwed long ago. It's not like the NRA ever stepped up to the plate in our Statehouse except to try to throw up barriers or take credit away from the accomplishments of the VCDL. +1. |
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Posted: 7/10/2014 9:54:22 AM EDT
[#10]
That guy just ain't a bright bulb... I've had good experiences with Sodan in Quinton (Rt 249 near 64.) Great little shop and they've done good smith work with what I've seen.
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Posted: 7/17/2014 10:34:29 AM EDT
[#11]
Regardless of the gun shop's policy, I would not shop there based simply on their unprofessional response.
Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking… |
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Posted: 7/18/2014 9:50:23 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
First, you won't find any other state org that is worth supporting over the VCDL. No other gun rights group (in the country IMO) has accomplished as much as they have. Second, if you are having an issue with something the VCDL is doing, you should work within the group to fix those issues. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thank you for the information, Bulldog. With actions like this one and another political incident last fall, I am lowering my VCDL membership a level, as Executive Member Levine's actions certainly do not reflect well on me. I'll find another gun group in VA to support financially.
First, you won't find any other state org that is worth supporting over the VCDL. No other gun rights group (in the country IMO) has accomplished as much as they have. Second, if you are having an issue with something the VCDL is doing, you should work within the group to fix those issues. Here's a question: Wouldn't it make sense for an organization as large as VCDL to have a standard process for dealing with gun-related businesses? Say a member reports a business with questionable (in VCDLs eyes) practices, there should be a person or board that goes to to determine if action should be taken and then a form letter that is standardized sent out. I'd think some businesses at least may not be familiar with VAs laws (though I'd hope gun shops would be) and perhaps an "educational assistance" be offered before ultimatums are thrown around. I'd think that may gain more positive interaction with businesses and communities than throwing a hand grenade into a ammunition dump whenever random members get excited about something. |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 4:06:31 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Snip Maybe this incident will cause them to implement such a policy. I know most in the gun community (especially here) think everyone needs to be 100%, 100% of the time. People screw up from time to time, and I can look past a mistake. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 9:49:51 PM EDT
[#14]
I believe the matter can be resolved as soon as someone tries to transfer an upper.
-Warren- |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 5:33:18 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe the matter can be resolved as soon as someone tries to transfer an upper.
-Warren- Alright, I laughed. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 5:38:56 AM EDT
[#16]
never mind
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Posted: 7/23/2014 7:17:30 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
His shop his rules. Either you believe in private property rights or you don't. I don't see anyone getting all butt-hurt over nearly every gun show in the state having a no loaded firearms sign at the entrance. Funny that, they line-up to get in and there's usually a VCDL table set-up. I guess it's just fine at those venues.
I'm a VCDL member and I can read a sign and make up my own damn mind if I want to shop there and to be honest I'm not donating to the VCDL to have them attacking private property rights. Stick with the public issues. In this case the VCDL comes off looking like just as big a dick as the shop owner IMHO. Sometimes the VCDL gets a little to big for their britches.  here we have the ever so common misconception that a fundamental right to do something indemnifies the exerciser from public ridicule and scorn. fundamental rights do not convey protection from the scrutiny of others, only protection from infringement by government. you are employing the exact same line of reasoning used to justify snowboots and his fat homeboy OC'ing their shitty guns into chipotle, though ironically using it to defend the property owner rather than the patrons. in this case, only if the VCDL was petitioning local government to intervene against the store owner, would you be correct to defend his property rights. no one has the right to freedom from public shaming, if you do heinous shit (even if it's entirely within the law and your rights) you will have to answer for it in the court of public opinion. the original email, which you read as a threat, to me was an opportunity to clarify a seemingly despicable (yet entirely lawful) policy in the owner's store. I too would have tried to give the shop owner the benefit of the doubt and hope he just meant to disallow the handling of loaded guns, which is the policy of every gun store I've ever encountered. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 12:00:42 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
here we have the ever so common misconception that a fundamental right to do something indemnifies the exerciser from public ridicule and scorn. fundamental rights do not convey protection from the scrutiny of others, only protection from infringement by government. you are employing the exact same line of reasoning used to justify snowboots and his fat homeboy OC'ing their shitty guns into chipotle, though ironically using it to defend the property owner rather than the patrons. in this case, only if the VCDL was petitioning local government to intervene against the store owner, would you be correct to defend his property rights. no one has the right to freedom from public shaming, if you do heinous shit (even if it's entirely within the law and your rights) you will have to answer for it in the court of public opinion. the original email, which you read as a threat, to me was an opportunity to clarify a seemingly despicable (yet entirely lawful) policy in the owner's store. I too would have tried to give the shop owner the benefit of the doubt and hope he just meant to disallow the handling of loaded guns, which is the policy of every gun store I've ever encountered. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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His shop his rules. Either you believe in private property rights or you don't. I don't see anyone getting all butt-hurt over nearly every gun show in the state having a no loaded firearms sign at the entrance. Funny that, they line-up to get in and there's usually a VCDL table set-up. I guess it's just fine at those venues.
I'm a VCDL member and I can read a sign and make up my own damn mind if I want to shop there and to be honest I'm not donating to the VCDL to have them attacking private property rights. Stick with the public issues. In this case the VCDL comes off looking like just as big a dick as the shop owner IMHO. Sometimes the VCDL gets a little to big for their britches. here we have the ever so common misconception that a fundamental right to do something indemnifies the exerciser from public ridicule and scorn. fundamental rights do not convey protection from the scrutiny of others, only protection from infringement by government. you are employing the exact same line of reasoning used to justify snowboots and his fat homeboy OC'ing their shitty guns into chipotle, though ironically using it to defend the property owner rather than the patrons. in this case, only if the VCDL was petitioning local government to intervene against the store owner, would you be correct to defend his property rights. no one has the right to freedom from public shaming, if you do heinous shit (even if it's entirely within the law and your rights) you will have to answer for it in the court of public opinion. the original email, which you read as a threat, to me was an opportunity to clarify a seemingly despicable (yet entirely lawful) policy in the owner's store. I too would have tried to give the shop owner the benefit of the doubt and hope he just meant to disallow the handling of loaded guns, which is the policy of every gun store I've ever encountered. hei·nous 'han?s/ adjective (of a person or wrongful act, especially a crime) utterly odious or wicked. "a battery of heinous crimes" des·pi·ca·ble di'spik?b?l/ adjective deserving hatred and contempt. "a despicable crime" Really? What the guy did by putting a no loaded gun policy in place was heinous and despicable? I'd think the cause of defending the 2nd would probably be better defended by not using the same ridiculous vitriol as the liberal gun-grabbers. Sometimes we're our own worst enemies people. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:23:14 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Really? What the guy did by putting a no loaded gun policy in place was heinous and despicable? I'd think the cause of defending the 2nd would probably be better defended by not using the same ridiculous vitriol as the liberal gun-grabbers. Sometimes we're our own worst enemies people. yes, really, I think it's despicable I don't question whether it's within his rights to do so, but I consider a policy like that to be anathema to what I stand for as a gun owner and self defense advocate |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 1:20:19 PM EDT
[#20]
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yes, really, I think it's despicable I don't question whether it's within his rights to do so, but I consider a policy like that to be anathema to what I stand for as a gun owner and self defense advocate Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Really? What the guy did by putting a no loaded gun policy in place was heinous and despicable? I'd think the cause of defending the 2nd would probably be better defended by not using the same ridiculous vitriol as the liberal gun-grabbers. Sometimes we're our own worst enemies people. yes, really, I think it's despicable I don't question whether it's within his rights to do so, but I consider a policy like that to be anathema to what I stand for as a gun owner and self defense advocate You hate a complete stranger because of the way he runs his business. Gotcha. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:33:44 PM EDT
[#21]
So I know who to hate this month, besides his dbag response to a dbag email, what is all the hubbub about his sign?
Colonial shooting has similar signs as you walk to to have unloaded guns unless law enforcement I don't see the real issue? The shop owners reply was no worse than the derp email from someone with little more than a library card as authority |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:38:38 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So I know who to hate this month, besides his dbag response to a dbag email, what is all the hubbub about his sign? Colonial shooting has similar signs as you walk to to have unloaded guns unless law enforcement I don't see the real issue? The shop owners reply was no worse than the derp email from someone with little more than a library card as authority So the shop owner has only conditional support of the right to bear arms....meh, not true freedom but whatever. It should have ended there; however, the unprofessional response and attack on a true champion for Virginia gun rights garnered much attention. It went beyond two personalities.....so much for everyone being on the same side. Sure many don't agree with Ed's wording, but if someone can be that easily provoked into a shit storm then we don't need them. Your take is off base; this has nothing to do with authority and everything with influence, your friend chose poorly. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:43:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Not my friend.
I just like knowing who to boycott and it changes quickly on arfcom . I think everyone acted like 2 year Olds, in this case I just happened to note similar wording at another gun shop in VA after reading this post |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 5:08:13 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not my friend. I just like knowing who to boycott and it changes quickly on arfcom . I think everyone acted like 2 year Olds, in this case I just happened to note similar wording at another gun shop in VA after reading this post Do whatever feels right bro. I agree with the silliness of this and I view it as an embarrassment for all. Perhaps Ed and the shop owner take a lesson. The difference is, I know VCDL and they will continue to do good things for all of us and are worthy of support. I don't feel the same for the business. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 3:26:10 AM EDT
[#25]
There is no getting around this company's policy for me. None.
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Posted: 7/25/2014 6:10:35 AM EDT
[#26]
If you conceal carry in a store such as this (or Toby Keith, et al) and you are "found out" - either in a self-defense situation or otherwise, what is the legal ramification? Trespassed from the premises? Worse?
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Posted: 7/25/2014 6:18:38 AM EDT
[#27]
They ask you to leave. If you don't leave, then they can call the police and have you tresspassed.
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:44:01 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As much as I did not care for the VCDL to get involved in this matter (all involved were dicks IMHO) I think you are throwing out the baby with the bath water. You are very short-sighted if you think your money could be better spent.
The VCDL is where the rubber meets the road in Virginia as far as our gun rights go. Were it not for the VCDL we would have been screwed long ago. It's not like the NRA ever stepped up to the plate in our Statehouse except to try to throw up barriers or take credit away from the accomplishments of the VCDL. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'll just vote with my money, just like Ed implied in his email to the shop owner. As much as I did not care for the VCDL to get involved in this matter (all involved were dicks IMHO) I think you are throwing out the baby with the bath water. You are very short-sighted if you think your money could be better spent.
The VCDL is where the rubber meets the road in Virginia as far as our gun rights go. Were it not for the VCDL we would have been screwed long ago. It's not like the NRA ever stepped up to the plate in our Statehouse except to try to throw up barriers or take credit away from the accomplishments of the VCDL. +1 bits in bold |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 9:03:53 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They ask you to leave. If you don't leave, then they can call the police and have you tresspassed. 
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Posted: 7/28/2014 6:46:48 AM EDT
[#30]
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You hate a complete stranger because of the way he runs his business. Gotcha. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Really? What the guy did by putting a no loaded gun policy in place was heinous and despicable? I'd think the cause of defending the 2nd would probably be better defended by not using the same ridiculous vitriol as the liberal gun-grabbers. Sometimes we're our own worst enemies people. yes, really, I think it's despicable I don't question whether it's within his rights to do so, but I consider a policy like that to be anathema to what I stand for as a gun owner and self defense advocate You hate a complete stranger because of the way he runs his business. Gotcha. As it could lead to me and mine being killed because I was unable to protect them... Absolutely! Now granted, I would never go into an establishment that had such a sign but still, fairweather 2nd supporters are just as bad as the anti's. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 7:18:44 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You hate a complete stranger because of the way he runs his business. Gotcha. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Really? What the guy did by putting a no loaded gun policy in place was heinous and despicable? I'd think the cause of defending the 2nd would probably be better defended by not using the same ridiculous vitriol as the liberal gun-grabbers. Sometimes we're our own worst enemies people. yes, really, I think it's despicable I don't question whether it's within his rights to do so, but I consider a policy like that to be anathema to what I stand for as a gun owner and self defense advocate You hate a complete stranger because of the way he runs his business. Gotcha. He was specific in that he thinks that the policy is despicable. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 12:20:02 PM EDT
[#32]
FYI - I drove by the other day and it looks like he took the sign down. Not 100% sure but looks like it's gone.
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Posted: 7/28/2014 1:50:54 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FYI - I drove by the other day and it looks like he took the sign down. Not 100% sure but looks like it's gone. Grab a pic if you're around there again. Would be interesting to see. |
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Posted: 8/14/2014 8:34:34 AM EDT
[#34]
I know I'm new to this forum - but not to firearms....and not really as far as living in VA goes -
That being said - most every gun shop / indoor range I've been to has the same sort of sign, although most of 'em are inside and even a few have a clearing barrel as well. I deal with email everyday in my business. If my skin gets any thicker, it would likely deflect bullets, so I don't read "between the lines" when it comes to emails... That being said - the original email with the LONG signature of "credentials" just rubs me the wrong way. Just saying. It's like emailing someone and including all of your degrees and technical certifications. Is it applicable? I think everyone should read every email they compose (in a professional / semi-professional setting) BEFORE they send it and ask: Does this email make me look like a douchebag? Do I sound pompous? Now that being said, the owner's response (if that was the owner etc etc) took the douchebaggery to another level. Basically a call out. Just my 2 cents -
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Posted: 8/14/2014 8:53:27 AM EDT
[#35]
Well, the NRA allows open or concealed carry it at their range. And the new range in PWC - ESS - said it will be doing the same when it opens.
It's just a matter of policy for the store owner. Agree with it or not, but it's his choice to disallow it. But it's also my choice to think he's an ass for his reply. I won't be visiting for those two reasons. And welcome to ARFCOM! |
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