Has anyone else heard the news blips on WRVA today about Tannerite being illegal and a felony? I just want to make sure I heard it correctly. There have been "issues" in Chesterfield and Hanover, but I Googled and cant find anything.

Was just told the other day it was to a certain point a no go in Stafford. GTG not mixed, once mixed it is considered an explosive device.You must pay for a permit,which is good for 3 mths.When you are ready to use it notify fire marshal and they will come and watch you dispose of it.

Someone better call the police on Dick's SG because they sell it by the pound!

I saw it in the Fredericksburg Gander Mountain the other day too!!  [:)

The Hanover CA supposedly in conjunction with the Hanover Sheriff's Office issued an opinion today that says  just mixing tannerite is a class 6 felony.

https://www.facebook.com/HanoverSheriff

I can't wait to see the first court case and the waste of tax dollars to used prosecute and then defend the county in civil court.  They are definitely stretching the code because the section they are using is the one regulating fireworks.

Too bad I thought Hanover was one of the sane counties.  

Ed Levine (who is the found of VA open carry) wrote a letter to the Hanover sheriff department. I follow VA Open Carry and VCDL so I get the news through FB quickly.

I guess they need to close down Green Top, and Pla Mor pools and Tractor Supply as well, and all the gas stations in Hanover.

Code of VA 18.2-85

"Explosive material" means any chemical compound, mechanical mixture or device that is commonly used or can be used for the purpose of producing an explosion and which contains any oxidizing and combustive agents or other ingredients in such proportions, quantities or packaging that an ignition by fire, friction, concussion, percussion, detonation or by any part of the compound or mixture may cause a sudden generation of highly heated gases. These materials include, but are not limited to, gunpowder, powders for blasting, high explosives, blasting materials, fuses (other than electric circuit breakers), detonators, and other detonating agents and smokeless powder."

Under that direct reading, Tannerite, when mixed, could be considered prohibited.  That said, having smokeless powder, black powder, etc would also be technically illegal.  There was an attempt in the general assembly to add "impact" to the list of detonating means.  That would have clearly defined mixed Tannerite (ANAl) and it's copies.  ANAl is cap sensitive so if you want to argue legality, it is already prohibited.  As of yet, no jurisdiction wants to be the test case.  Looks like someone is prepared to do that now.

Tannerite is still legal to sell as it is an unmixed binary.  Once mixed though, you meet the above and it is what it is...  

Can you get a license to manufacture explosives..  absolutely..

I would guess that the days of binary reactive targets are limited unless they change the code.  On the section that excludes fireworks, consider that black cats and M80s are illegal in VA.  It would  be an uphill fight to say that you had a legal firework weighing in at 1 pound when a fire cracker that is less than 50mg of flash powder is illegal.

I think the fact that the assembly killed the addition of impact is a good sign but I would't hold my breath that it will last.



edit as my grammar sucked

Also from §18.2-85:


Wouldn't this negate everything else?  Smokeless and black powder is legal for "lawful purposes" so why wouldn't reactive targets be legal so long as they are used as such?

I had a VSP Special Agent assure me last month that Tannerite was A-OK until it is contained in a non-frangible container (steel pipe, etc).

Here is what the Hanover Sherrifs office response was to my ATF statement:

The non-commercial use of explosives and explosive materials are regulated by the States. As such, it is regulated by the Code of Virginia in the Commonwealth.  The Sheriff's Office, as well as other VA law enforcement agencies may only enforce state laws, not federal laws.   Also note that the ATF does not regulate non-commercial use of explosives, nor do they require a federal explosive license for non-commercial use.  If you have specific questions about federal law and its interpretation, you are encouraged to contact the relevant federal agency or the nearest U.S. Attorney's Office.

We have what we call the "Tannerite BBQ" a couple of times a year in southern Chesterfield. Probably 200+ people show up. We shoot guns, set off some tannerite, and have a bbq. Its on a big farm and the nearest house is probably close to a mile away. They complain of the noise, police show up, they are cool and let us know we arent doing anything wrong, the fun continues.

The tannerite is a target, thats what it is intended for. It could be used in an illegal way.....just as gasoline is explosive, its intended purpose is a fuel, and it can be used in an illegal way.

I think the law needs to look at intent when it comes to tannerite. Are you in a 500 acre field with no one around and shooting it on the ground? Or are you in a subdivision sticking in mailboxes and shooting it?

I think they are just looking for a way to scare people into not using it to curb the noise complaints.

I went to high school with a guy from the Commonwealth Attorney's office, I just sent him the details to see what he says.

well, just noticed this http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?141+ful+HB129

HOUSE BILL NO. 129
Offered January 8, 2014
Prefiled December 18, 2013
A BILL to amend and reenact § 18.2-85 of the Code of Virginia, relating to explosive material; method of ignition.
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Patron-- Bell, Richard P.
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Referred to Committee for Courts of Justice
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Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Virginia:

1. That § 18.2-85 of the Code of Virginia is amended and reenacted as follows:

§ 18.2-85. Manufacture, possession, use, etc., of fire bombs or explosive materials or devices; penalties.

For the purpose of this section:

"Device" means any instrument, apparatus or contrivance, including its component parts, that is capable of producing or intended to produce an explosion but shall not include fireworks as defined in § 27-95.

"Explosive material" means any chemical compound, mechanical mixture or device that is commonly used or can be used for the purpose of producing an explosion and which contains any oxidizing and combustive agents or other ingredients in such proportions, quantities or packaging that an ignition by fire, friction, concussion, percussion, detonation, or high impact velocity or by any part of the compound or mixture may cause a sudden generation of highly heated gases. These materials include, but are not limited to, gunpowder, powders for blasting, high explosives, blasting materials, fuses (other than electric circuit breakers), detonators, and other detonating agents and smokeless powder.

"Fire bomb" means any container of a flammable material such as gasoline, kerosene, fuel oil, or other chemical compound, having a wick composed of any material or a device or other substance which, if set or ignited, is capable of igniting such flammable material or chemical compound but does not include a similar device commercially manufactured and used solely for the purpose of illumination or cooking.

"Hoax explosive device" means any device which by its design, construction, content or characteristics appears to be or to contain a bomb or other destructive device or explosive but which is an imitation of any such device or explosive.

Any person who (i) possesses materials with which fire bombs or explosive materials or devices can be made with the intent to manufacture fire bombs or explosive materials or devices or, (ii) manufactures, transports, distributes, possesses or uses a fire bomb or explosive materials or devices shall be is guilty of a Class 5 felony. Any person who constructs, uses, places, sends, or causes to be sent any hoax explosive device so as to intentionally cause another person to believe that such device is a bomb or explosive shall be is guilty of a Class 6 felony.

Nothing in this section shall prohibit the authorized manufacture, transportation, distribution, use or possession of any material, substance, or device by a member of the armed forces of the United States, fire fighters or law-enforcement officers, nor shall it prohibit the manufacture, transportation, distribution, use or possession of any material, substance or device to be used solely for scientific research, educational purposes or for any lawful purpose, subject to the provisions of §§ 27-97 and 27-97.2.

2. That the provisions of this act may result in a net increase in periods of imprisonment or commitment. Pursuant to § 30-19.1:4, the estimated amount of the necessary appropriation cannot be determined for periods of imprisonment in state adult correctional facilities; therefore, Chapter 806 of the Acts of Assembly of 2013 requires the Virginia Criminal Sentencing Commission to assign a minimum fiscal impact of $50,000. Pursuant to § 30-19.1:4, the estimated amount of the necessary appropriation cannot be determined for periods of commitment to the custody of the Department of Juvenile Justice.

another

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?ses=141&typ=bil&val=hb129

These guys are just following the President's executive order playbook.  They may be pushing the existing law beyond what was intended, but do you want to be the test case?  

There are bunches of laws on the books that could be enforced to the detriment of a free people.  

Vote them out of office.

jail is no fun

Trust me when I tell you that the Hanover County Commonwealth's Attorney's office is not a bunch of Obama supporters. Their interpretation of the Code on this issue may be annoying, it may suck, it may even be incorrect - but it's got nothing to do with Obama.

People (read: urbanites who moved to Hanover) bitch to the sheriff about it because noises are scary and stuff, he goes to the CA's office (which up until now probably didn't care about the issue), they read the Code, they think Tannerite fits the definition and make that known.

Doesn't tannerite produce a cold explosion containing water vapor?

Yes it is an endothermic reaction.

edit... no one ever said that those that interpret the law actually know what it says and understand science.

Smokeless powder and black powder is also explicitly listed this code.  When I load them as designed for recreational shooting and hunting I am meeting the "all lawful purposes" in the law.  What is stopping them from rereading the law again to declare all us shooter s creating explosions in the chamber of out firearms are committing a felony.  I stand by what I said.  Vote them out.

Arguing with me on the Internet isn't going to help. I'm just providing an explanation of all of this, not a defense of it.

Agreed.  I've me some truly special ones in the CA's office.

Illegal fireworks, to include M80s, are illegal under the fire code.

Violation of any provision of the fire code is a class 1 misdemeanor.

Could you cite the specific code?

Unmixed.

Meanwhile, Virginia's response to Hanover County's finest:

Fire code is under Chapter 27. He's right, with regard to where fireworks are regulated in the code, and what the penalty is for violating it.

It's been way too long since I fooled with the fire code to cite the particular section about fireworks in general

Haven't found it.  Could you direct me a little closer.  Here's the sub sections of Chapter 27 (but I didn't see it):

Chapter 1General Provisions (27-1 thru 27-5.5)
Chapter 2Fire/EMS Departments and Fire/EMS Companies (27-6 thru 27-24)
Chapter 3Local Fire Marshals (27-30 thru 27-37.1)
Chapter 4Relief for Fire Fighters and Dependents (27-38 thru 27-50)
Chapter 5Safety Provisions Generally (27-51 thru 27-54.5)
Chapter 6Department of State Police; Public Building Safety Law; Arson Reporting Immunity Act (27-55 thru 27-85.6)
Chapter 7Liquefied Petroleum Gases (27-86)
Chapter 8Fire Services Training (27-91)
Chapter 9Statewide Fire Prevention Code Act (27-94 thru 27-101)

Chapter 27

This whole misdemeanor stuff is confusing.  The way the link below reads, most fireworks are not flat out illegal, you are suppose to have a permit though.  This all sounds like BS.  I could see a lot of Arfcommers on their boat celebrating Independence Day and really get jacked up over all the horrible laws on the books.



Fireworks Legal Info

Bottle Rockets:   With Permit Only  
  Sky Rockets:   With Permit Only  
  Roman Candles:   With Permit Only  
  Firecrackers:   With Permit Only  
  Sparklers:   Legally Allowed  
  Smoke and Punk:   Legally Allowed  
  Fountains:   Legally Allowed  
  Missiles:   With Permit Only  
  Novelties:   Legally Allowed  
  Crackle and Strobe:   Legally Allowed  
  Parachutes:   With Permit Only  
  Wheels and Spinners:   Legally Allowed  
  Sky Flyers:   With Permit Only  
  Display Shells:   With Permit Only  
  Aerial Items (Cakes):   With Permit Only  

NOTE: Limited to smoke effects without a permit.

It would be 9, Statewide Fire Prevention Code.

Virginia adopts a modified version of the Uniform Fire Prevention Code, with a couple of chapters changed. The penalty for violation of any section of the fire code is a Class 1 Misdemeanor. The fire code is one of the most convoluted and difficult pieces of law to understand and research. I was previously an NPFA 1031/1033 inspector and investigator, as a side job to my normal police job. Call me a jerk, but I'm not digging through the whole book. Knock yourself out.

Dealing with the fire code sucks ass.

That said, only a 'fire official' can enforce portions of that code section. Local ordinances aside, a standard street cop can't write you a summons for a violation of the fire code, including fireworks.

The permitting process exists just so that localities, neighborhoods, etc can put on fireworks shows on July 4th, Memorial Day, etc. The fire official is the signatory authority for the permits. Good luck getting one, they normally require insurance, trained/bonded people doing the ignition, etc. Basically limited to professional pyrotechnic events.

Oh, and 'Fire Official' is normally the Fire Chief for an area (yes, including VFD's), but is almost always relegated to the Fire Marshall's Office in areas that have one. In areas that don't have one, the State Fire Marshall's Office handles complaints but rarely if ever enforcement, and VSP Arson/Bomb units of BCI handle any investigations.

Thanks.
It does seem like the police can arrest and seize  fireworks though:    How often or selectively is this enforced?


Sorry, OP for the slight tangent.

That doesn't say any officer may arrest. It says any officer that does, must also hold the fireworks as evidence.

In my experience, unless folks were doing really, really dumb stuff, fireworks were ignored by patrol units on the big holidays.

Again, in most places they don't have the legal authority to charge anyone anyway.

Over this last weekend? Very, very selectively. My brother's apartment complex had a shooting/murder/drug-deal-gone-good not long ago, so they had cops roaming the place all the time when I was there. Heard fireworks going off all day/night; not a peep from Henrico cops.

Of course, I don't know about the other 51 weeks of the year.

Technically speaking, you do need a permit for the stuff that says as such.

That said, if you stand outside on the 4th of July it becomes very obvious the fire code is ignored.

NVM.

I only brought up the fire code as the 18.2-85 permits legal fireworks.  Repack fireworks in another container and you are a felon.  Ask the kid in Leesburg who just got convicted on 2 felonies for it.  Same would go for tannerite.

I have never heard that tannerite is an endothermic reaction..  It contains a fuel thus I would believe it is exothermic, but I will check with an explosive chemist to be certain.

Btw..  The legislation that was listed on page 1 was killed in committee.