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ATC
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Posted: 1/1/2013 4:06:49 PM
Located on Rt 24 between William Byrd HS and the intersection of Jordantown & Goodview road, just past the large gas station on the right as you head toward Bedford.

They just opened a couple weeks ago from what I hear, so a buddy and I went there today to check them out. They don't have any guns yet, but they have plenty of 223/556 and x39 on the shelf....however they want rediculus prices for them. $13/bx for PMC Bronze...$10-11/bx for Tula x39. They carry 5.11 stuff...pants, shirts, gun cases. They had a Pmag hanging on the rack, but I never asked how much they wanted for it. They had a 37mm or 40mm launcher in a case.

They are currently working on getting their class III paperwork....so I guess they are trying to get into the NFA stuff.

Might be worth a stop if you are passing through...but I wouldn't make a special trip
SafeSide
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Posted: 1/7/2013 2:43:55 PM
Thanks ATC for dropping in and sharing your experience. I thought it would be fair to give some answers and perspective to your post, so other folks can form an educated opinion...

1) The $13/box on PMC Bronze 223 ammo is indeed "ridiculous" when compared to buying ammo prior to 11/6/12 or so. My searching on GB and other gun targeted sites show it selling at auction for $12.50-15 per box (When bought by 500 or 1000). Our costs are up, as are our prices, but we have not sold out yet and there is no shipping to come into the store to buy some (sales tax yes, so maybe this point is moot). The same ammo I saw at the Roanoke gun show (same local market) for $16 per box and people were buying what little was available. We are trying to keep the cost as low as possible, but the industry (as a shooter for a long time and a dealer for 6 weeks) is almost unrecognizable as I'm sure you are aware.

2) Your quote for the x39 is wrong. That ammo is currently in stock at $7/box. Yes, not like the "glory days" of 2012 but below what other folks are selling it for, and we have a good bit to sell so we aren't likely to get cleaned out for several more weeks.

3) The Pmag on the rack (which we currently have about 25 pmags and 50 metal 30rd mags) are expensive right now. For us and for you. But we have some. We are selling them for $10-15 less than the average GB/eBay price. Below that, I lose money. I'm not sure the right move here, but having some available seems to be a plus as it is clear they are cheaper locally than on the internet (how often is that true?) While some may assume we are gouging, the fact is we are making few dollars per mag now than we were when we initially ordered them through normal distribution channels in November (based on the cost of our last batch).

4) After our FFL is approved (should be 3-5 weeks if the ATF sticks to their projected timetable which is questionable), we will be applying for our Class II SOT as a dealer and manufacturer. "Trying to get into the NFA stuff" is accurate when referencing the business, but "already very familiar with registering, transferring, owning, and collecting NFA stuff" would be a more accurate depiction of our experience (as individual owners, through our multiple trusts, etc). We see this as a part of gun ownership that is underserved and where a lot of people are under- or miseducated and hope that its a good sector of the business.

Again, thanks for coming into the store. Its going to take us some time to get things running the way we want, and the uncertainty in the market is making it unclear how everything will turn out. As local boys who thought it would make sense to turn a passion into a business - and fill a need in the community - I hope we get some positive response from others in addition to the criticism.

Mitch

rocket
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Posted: 1/7/2013 2:57:30 PM
I thought Magpul discouraged selling over MSRP?
Originally Posted By SafeSide:
Thanks ATC for dropping in and sharing your experience. I thought it would be fair to give some answers and perspective to your post, so other folks can form an educated opinion...

1) The $13/box on PMC Bronze 223 ammo is indeed "ridiculous" when compared to buying ammo prior to 11/6/12 or so. My searching on GB and other gun targeted sites show it selling at auction for $12.50-15 per box (When bought by 500 or 1000). Our costs are up, as are our prices, but we have not sold out yet and there is no shipping to come into the store to buy some (sales tax yes, so maybe this point is moot). The same ammo I saw at the Roanoke gun show (same local market) for $16 per box and people were buying what little was available. We are trying to keep the cost as low as possible, but the industry (as a shooter for a long time and a dealer for 6 weeks) is almost unrecognizable as I'm sure you are aware.

2) Your quote for the x39 is wrong. That ammo is currently in stock at $7/box. Yes, not like the "glory days" of 2012 but below what other folks are selling it for, and we have a good bit to sell so we aren't likely to get cleaned out for several more weeks.

3) The Pmag on the rack (which we currently have about 25 pmags and 50 metal 30rd mags) are expensive right now. For us and for you. But we have some. We are selling them for $10-15 less than the average GB/eBay price. Below that, I lose money. I'm not sure the right move here, but having some available seems to be a plus as it is clear they are cheaper locally than on the internet (how often is that true?) While some may assume we are gouging, the fact is we are making few dollars per mag now than we were when we initially ordered them through normal distribution channels in November (based on the cost of our last batch).

4) After our FFL is approved (should be 3-5 weeks if the ATF sticks to their projected timetable which is questionable), we will be applying for our Class II SOT as a dealer and manufacturer. "Trying to get into the NFA stuff" is accurate when referencing the business, but "already very familiar with registering, transferring, owning, and collecting NFA stuff" would be a more accurate depiction of our experience (as individual owners, through our multiple trusts, etc). We see this as a part of gun ownership that is underserved and where a lot of people are under- or miseducated and hope that its a good sector of the business.

Again, thanks for coming into the store. Its going to take us some time to get things running the way we want, and the uncertainty in the market is making it unclear how everything will turn out. As local boys who thought it would make sense to turn a passion into a business - and fill a need in the community - I hope we get some positive response from others in addition to the criticism.

Mitch




SafeSide
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Posted: 1/7/2013 3:38:55 PM
From what I can gather, MagPul has requested that from their direct Distributors (with whom they have contracts on such matters). I'm not able to get any from distribution, and the Sales Reps response is call in 3 months. My source is through private sellers who are dictating prices based on market conditions.

I'm not sure there is a winning move here. As a new store, I thought it would be a plus to buy at a premium, but be a source for local customers. It may be argued that they would be better off not having them at all than paying $40 a piece. What's the right answer? Sell at $20 at a loss, be out in a day and shut the place down? Or make local customers (who I would like to come back if and when things settle down) go on eBay and pay $115 for 2.

I think the criticism is warranted. I saw $600 ARs sell for $1900 last week, and 30rnd mags for $55 - but people are buying them, and they aren't uneducated. They realize the additional cost is ok because it could be their last opportunity to collect these types of items. They've weighed the risk of overpaying today and it all settling back down, and are ok with that. Other people are buying them for $40 and selling on eBay for $50. The large number of "Price Police" seem to think that all of us (dealers, individuals, etc) are still buying them by the thousand at dealer pricing and paying off the mortgage 10 years early - that just isn't the case in many instances (and certainly not in ours!).
ATC
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Posted: 1/7/2013 3:46:24 PM
Originally Posted By SafeSide:
Thanks ATC for dropping in and sharing your experience. I thought it would be fair to give some answers and perspective to your post, so other folks can form an educated opinion...

1) The $13/box on PMC Bronze 223 ammo is indeed "ridiculous" when compared to buying ammo prior to 11/6/12 or so. My searching on GB and other gun targeted sites show it selling at auction for $12.50-15 per box (When bought by 500 or 1000). Our costs are up, as are our prices, but we have not sold out yet and there is no shipping to come into the store to buy some (sales tax yes, so maybe this point is moot). The same ammo I saw at the Roanoke gun show (same local market) for $16 per box and people were buying what little was available. We are trying to keep the cost as low as possible, but the industry (as a shooter for a long time and a dealer for 6 weeks) is almost unrecognizable as I'm sure you are aware.

2) Your quote for the x39 is wrong. That ammo is currently in stock at $7/box. Yes, not like the "glory days" of 2012 but below what other folks are selling it for, and we have a good bit to sell so we aren't likely to get cleaned out for several more weeks.

3) The Pmag on the rack (which we currently have about 25 pmags and 50 metal 30rd mags) are expensive right now. For us and for you. But we have some. We are selling them for $10-15 less than the average GB/eBay price. Below that, I lose money. I'm not sure the right move here, but having some available seems to be a plus as it is clear they are cheaper locally than on the internet (how often is that true?) While some may assume we are gouging, the fact is we are making few dollars per mag now than we were when we initially ordered them through normal distribution channels in November (based on the cost of our last batch).

4) After our FFL is approved (should be 3-5 weeks if the ATF sticks to their projected timetable which is questionable), we will be applying for our Class II SOT as a dealer and manufacturer. "Trying to get into the NFA stuff" is accurate when referencing the business, but "already very familiar with registering, transferring, owning, and collecting NFA stuff" would be a more accurate depiction of our experience (as individual owners, through our multiple trusts, etc). We see this as a part of gun ownership that is underserved and where a lot of people are under- or miseducated and hope that its a good sector of the business.

Again, thanks for coming into the store. Its going to take us some time to get things running the way we want, and the uncertainty in the market is making it unclear how everything will turn out. As local boys who thought it would make sense to turn a passion into a business - and fill a need in the community - I hope we get some positive response from others in addition to the criticism.

Mitch




Thanks for replying. I, in no way, meant for my post to be negative towards your business. I guess I just haven't fully accepted the price of ammo/mags/guns lately. I bought my stash before the madness at "normal" prices, so all of this is new to me and hard to accept At the time of posting, I could have swore I saw a box of x39 for $10.99....but I must have gotten it mixed up with something else (my memory ain't the best!)

The FFL stuff I heard was 3rd or 4th party information from a friend.

I will be back in your store, don't get me wrong. But for now, I'm getting into long range shooting and reloading until all this madness settles down, and I'm stepping away from my 5.56 and x39 toys. I'm glad there are more gun related businesses around our area now. Welcome to the site!
undone11091
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Posted: 1/7/2013 4:17:50 PM
the more the merrier
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Posted: 1/7/2013 7:03:40 PM
Originally Posted By SafeSide:


3) The Pmag on the rack (which we currently have about 25 pmags and 50 metal 30rd mags) are expensive right now. For us and for you. But we have some. We are selling them for $10-15 less than the average GB/eBay price. Below that, I lose money. I'm not sure the right move here, but having some available seems to be a plus as it is clear they are cheaper locally than on the internet (how often is that true?) While some may assume we are gouging, the fact is we are making few dollars per mag now than we were when we initially ordered them through normal distribution channels in November (based on the cost of our last batch).



I really am not trying to stir the pot but, please do tell which distributors have raised Magpul pricing? I have not seen a single one of the distributors raise their prices. There are notices that shipping will be delayed and many items have gone allocated, but prices are no higher than what they were 3 weeks ago.
SafeSide
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Posted: 1/7/2013 7:12:01 PM
I meant that we are not able to get them from the normal distribution chain right now (dealer pricing) due to the backorder situation, so we are paying more (street pricing) in order to have some available. I didn't mean to imply that distributors had raised their prices- I haven't seen that either.
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Posted: 1/7/2013 7:16:39 PM
This whole CT Shooting and resultant panic buying screwed up some very well laid plans I had for 2013. Pushed some big deals I had negotiated -- but not yet pulled the trigger on -- off the table.

Must be really suck ass timing to open a store. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Best of luck to you.
Originally Posted By SafeSide:

I'm not sure there is a winning move here. As a new store, I thought it would be a plus to buy at a premium, but be a source for local customers. It may be argued that they would be better off not having them at all than paying $40 a piece. What's the right answer? Sell at $20 at a loss, be out in a day and shut the place down? Or make local customers (who I would like to come back if and when things settle down) go on eBay and pay $115 for 2.

I think the criticism is warranted. I saw $600 ARs sell for $1900 last week, and 30rnd mags for $55 - but people are buying them, and they aren't uneducated. They realize the additional cost is ok because it could be their last opportunity to collect these types of items. They've weighed the risk of overpaying today and it all settling back down, and are ok with that. Other people are buying them for $40 and selling on eBay for $50. The large number of "Price Police" seem to think that all of us (dealers, individuals, etc) are still buying them by the thousand at dealer pricing and paying off the mortgage 10 years early - that just isn't the case in many instances (and certainly not in ours!).


SafeSide
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Posted: 1/7/2013 7:36:58 PM
I appreciate the input from a major player - its clear that well established companies and newbies have a tough road ahead. Ultimately, customers in the store will have to weigh the cost vs value and decide for themselves. Its understandable that long-time AR owners are outraged at the pricing, lack of industry preparedness, backorders, etc - but there is a growing group of people that decided to get into this platform since the CT shooting and have decided to pay a premium to join the party. I thought it was very reasonable what you guys did at the Salem show - selling at normal price, but limiting quantities. That's what we did with our remaining 25 or so the week after (the ones that were purchased through normal distribution at dealer pricing) and sold out in 2 days.
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Posted: 1/7/2013 11:23:53 PM
Give me better directions or a street address. I go through there often and I'd like to at least stop by. Your honesty and openness will gain you my business long before low prices and shitty CS. So I'd like to stop by and see what you guys have.

And if QT. weren't a 3 hr drive, I'd go there too. And I'd pay $2 over asking price just to make up for the scalper shipping debacle.

LGS's take note: I'd rather deal with a fair, open, and honest dealer who understandably has to make a living than a snake any day. There is something to be said for the 'convenience premium' of having the item in your hand that day, too.
Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined. - Patrick Henry
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Posted: 1/8/2013 12:34:54 AM
A quick Google search comes up with

15462 Stewartsville Rd, Vinton, VA 24179

Just past the Exxon gas station on the right as you are headed toward Bedford.