I have noticed that the demand for concealed carry courses has dwindled in our area.  Are instructors in other parts of the state seeing the same thing?

It seems that lately the only people interested in taking the course want a 16 hour course taught in 6 hours with ammunition and firearms provided for $50.

What are you seeing?

Makes perfect sense. Everyone who wanted it forever has got it. Wait a few years until everyone needs "refresher" courses and it'll be a mad rush all over again. I can't wait for that. /sarcasm

The people who are on the fence about it are probably turned off by the 16 hour requirement, along with the price for 16 hours of training. The people who will do anything to get it, have already got it.

May 2014, I stopped offering speculative classes in the hopes that people would fill them, and began offering private groups only.



I trained 500 students from September 30th  2013, until May 2014. I went from having 25 students in a class with 2 assistant instructors in addition to myself, to having less than 10 students in a class which is why I switched my business format to only offering private groups. I may do another speculative class in the next couple months and see what happens.

I am not having an issue filling classes. I limit my classes to 15 and nearly all of my students are from referrals. Usually classes are about 10 people or so.

The latest numbers suggest there are about 7k licenses per month being issued.

That is a trickle, I think, from March 2014 when this thing got started.  

I've heard some grousing from a couple of instructors I know who say business was a lot better before we had CCW and the perceived gold rush that brought 3000 new instructors out of the woodwork.

I'm smack dab in central IL and there are no shortage of classes if you can wait a week or three for one to come close to you.  If you want to travel, you can probably find one this weekend somewhere.

The Gold Mine that is/was Illinois CCW training has become a Tin Mine.  Instructors and training groups that taught before we had CCW in this state will still be teaching long after 2800+- of the instructors have jumped on the next big thing they think will make them rich. That's fine honestly, probably better for the students going forward. They'll get training from people that have been at it a while and actually know their business instead of guys with a single NRA 'instructor's course' and a bunch or war stories to tell.

People like us on here got our CCL's right away. So it makes sense that demand is going down.

Here's an oddity. A number of people I know that always had firearms with them before we had CCW have still not taken a class to get their license. I don't get it...

Some people just have no interest in carrying a gun. My girlfriends, brother in law (who I shoot with) has zero interest in getting his carry license.

I have a group that carries daily and are not bothering with getting the permit. Most of them carry in Madison county so they aren't worried about getting in trouble.

The permanent address thing is kinda fucking me.

There are still some out there that want training, just less of a priority for them. Heck, 3 in my family still need their CCL.

We have always limited our CCL Classes to 6-10 students and only hold them a few times per year so filling our classes isn't usually a problem.  We see more contacts interested in the training and then cancel out for a number of reasons after reserving a slot (that is why we overbook).  We said from the beginning that those who 'jumped on the bus' to make a quick buck won't be around for the long term.....and we are starting to see this.  Those that came into this just doing CCL and no other types of training, or not well established as a CCL Instructor will fall by the wayside as time goes on.

I have been waiting to take the 8 hr class since it started. I just don't know where to take it. there are so many and then the ones offering it free to disabled vets. There are way to may instructors out there and none seem to be in my area and the ones that are seem to charge a lot. I know my wife is interested but there is no priority for her. I think once I get it I can teach it. But who knows.

It seems like I have had more demand for defensive pistol courses than IL CCW courses over the past 12 months.  People don't shy away from the course cost or ammunition requirement as much as some who want to do the absolute minimum to acquire their Illinois FCCL.

Those who jumped in to get rich quick off Concealed Carry courses seem to be dropping off the radar.  I am referring to those without any firearm experience who attended the long weekend puppy mill classes to secure their instructor credentials.   I have had a some students who attended courses put on by these people attend a course to cover ground they wished they had covered in the first course.  That's a shame.

If I had my way the only requirement for carrying a loaded concealed firearm in Illinois would be to have a valid FOID, but we are a long way from reaching that goal.

I know a number of people who haven't taken classes because they're holding off on applying for CCL until some of the more egregious likely information and privacy issues get dealt with.  In particular the fact that crook county gets the name and address of every applicant statewide (so I"ve been told) and has to be presumed to be keeping them and providing them to other interested parties.

If you will provide a source for that information, we can run that by Swanhunter.

I have to admit it is anecdotal; two knowledgeable friends who researched it right after the law went into effect, and one of the training instructors for the classes (I took the classes but have not yet applied).

The instructor stated that the applicant names and info are made available to pretty much every law enforcement agency (and judicial?) in the state (county and municipal) via a 'database', so that any of those agencies could file an objection to an applicant.  The applicant info stays published for a set period of time and then is removed.  He said access to the info was not limited to just the municipality or county where the applicant lived.

So if crook county has access to the name, address, and whatever else of every applicant statewide... don't know about you but legal or not I'd expect they are recording and keeping it for whatever use and distribution suits them.  Given the nature of the people running the county it wouldn't be prudent to assume otherwise.  Certainly other agencies could be doing the same, but crook is the one I'd be most concerned about.

Yup.  Stupid expensive permit.  Take a whole weekend of "training" (training that I've had before).  Stupid restrictions on where I can carry.  Basically I'm wasting all of my time and money so I can carry in the car on the way to and from work.  "F" the commies in Illinois, they get enough of my money.

I think the cost is holding back some of the less enthusiastic folks.
Most people who want one, have already got one.

I've wanted CCW for so long, I would have paid more than I did, but it IS a costly endeavour.

+/- $200 or so for 16 hours of training.
+/- $50 for LiveScan fingerprints
$150 for the permit

That is before the gun/holster/ammo/practice.

So, say a "non gun person" hears IL now has CCW and thinks, "I should get mine, the world is a crazy place".
Then they start looking in to how much it takes to be up and running..

They find out that it going to be 2 months and $1000 minimum for a person with no real experience and no gun.
You have to get a FOID, get a gun, become minimally competent at shooting, find a weekend you can invest 16 hours in.
Then take the class over 2 days, get the fingerprints, apply online, and pay the $150 fee.

Not to mention the holster(s)

I think a lot of people blow it off after looking into the real costs.

It is a big expense, plus most people are lazy and won't invest the 2+ months in the process.

The high cost is by design IMHO. The State made it expensive to on purpose to keep "fence sitters" from getting them just because they can now.

Requiring 16 hour classes with shooting qualifications more than doubled the actual cost of the permit itself.
Trainers have to make money, and a 16 hour class costs a lot to put on.
Venue, curriculum, projector, screen, computer, range time, I'd assume insurance of some sort, and refreshments.

Anyone with a law enforcement log in has access to the system and yes any one of those people from anywhere in the state can file an objection. Once you get your license they'll have access to pretty much all your info via LEADS by just running your DL.  So what? Are they going to put me on some Crook county list? Maybe, but honestly that scares me not at all.

Speaking of 'the government' in general -

They already know I have an FOID.
They already know I have a CCW license possibly from more than one state.
They already know I'm a NRA and CCW instructor.
They already know I have an FFL.

So what more can they find out or do that I should be concerned with? My name, address, etc are already in a system somewhere. That I passed a criminal background check numerous times is also there as is the fact I'm somehow 'involved' with firearms. So I don't get the worry about all that being available to Crook county or anyone else in the government since from what I can see it already is in one form or another.

The cost is no doubt an issue. The time investment is at least as much of a problem if not more of one. 16 hours ( that is really more like 20 hours ) is not as easy for some to come up with as for others..  

I became a instructor just to teach people the right way. I enjoy it. I don't offer classes I teach my friends and their wives and kids. and if I am not doing that I am shooting with my wife who is a new shooter. I know she wants to do the class but doesn't want to sit in it alone and I don;t have time for the 8 hr course because of my job.  I also didn't look into it to see what is needed for me to teach it, but I am not really interested in teaching CCW. I would love to get into defensive pistols and maybe rifles.

That would be me.  For a number of reasons:

First, I think we should have gotten Constitutional Carry instead.

Second,  I think it is way too expensive.

Third, granted what I carried on my hip at USPSA/IDPA/Steel matches was a full size duty gun, but after like 5 to 8 hours of having it on, I was done.  It kinda grated on me.

Fourth, where I work, it is strictly forbidden to have any kind of weapons on you or left in your vehicle.  It is a Federal thing, and supposedly they bring in gun-sniffing or ammo-sniffing dogs through the parking lots from time to time.  One guy got fired for having an empty shotgun hull in the back of his truck.

Fifth, privacy waiver concerns.

Sixth, when I do finally take the CCW course, it will be at a time when "darwinism" has kind of whittled down all the other CCW instructors who were just out to turn a fast buck.  The cream rises to the top.

I laughed out loud when I read this.   It's true, very true.

One thing that threw me off was that we had a decent CC law with less requirements that barely got shot down and a very expensive one got passed. After it passed the large amount of people who supported this terrible CC law on a certain forum turned out to be people who wanted to make money off it by teaching classes. I didn't realize that forum was 90% instructors. I've searched plenty and the total cost for me to get a CCW license without driving 30+ miles is $500, $450 if I don't want to use prints. There's also no indication from IL or any real qualified instructor what the requirements or cost of renewal are. Anyone here know for sure?

Madigan called in votes to barely defeat our CC bill before he passed "his" bill.  He pretty well took control of the whole process.  The renewal criteria will be 3 hours of refresher and the fee will be $150 again (this IS IL).  The refresher material hasn't been defined yet.

-CCL is valid for 5 years

-CCL holder must attend a 3 hour class covering review of criminal law and live fire qualification

-CCL renewal does not require submission of fingerprints

-CCL renewal fee is $150.00

Excerpt from statute indicating fees:

(430 ILCS 66/60)
   Sec. 60. Fees.
   (a) All fees collected under this Act shall be deposited as provided in this Section. Application, renewal, and replacement fees shall be non-refundable.
   (b) An applicant for a new license or a renewal shall submit $150 with the application, of which $120 shall be apportioned to the State Police Firearm Services Fund, $20 shall be apportioned to the Mental Health Reporting Fund, and $10 shall be apportioned to the State Crime Laboratory Fund.

Depending on what the refresher requires, it could be some ammo and of course the class fee. So the total could be about $250 (wild guess) just to renew. It's a shame that much cheaper out of state permits now require you to have an IL permit as well. Tack in all of the restrictions and what's the point? Does anyone really think it's going to be cheaper one day? WI CC classes were cut in half after the first year according to many that live there which includes some relatives, but I don't see any costs or requirements being cut here no matter how long we have it. Hopefully I'm wrong.

ETA: I see the edit above. I'm sure that all goes towards where they say it goes.

There are plenty right now aren't there?

Some of us were around before the law. We'll be around long after. Meanwhile the get rich quick guys ( that never got rich ) will move on to the next thing.

Of course. The state has collected about $20M in application fees. Yet it still takes months to get a license and people are still fighting trivial things to get it done. But I'm sure if they just collect MORE MONEY that will all be fixed...

Do you have a link to that?

I had heard that there was some sort of privacy waiver.  I would like to know what that entails, especially since if I recall correctly, then state Attorney General Lisa Madigan was in a fight with the Illinois State Police over FOID card holders's names and addresses.

I think it might have been one of the Virginia's where their entire list of CCW holders had their names and addresses printed in the newspaper.

I thought it was New York where the CCW holders names were printed in the newspaper.

Lisa Madigan's opinion was that the ISP should release FOID information to the Associated Press and the ISP resisted the release of the information.  People from my area filed a class action lawsuit against the ISP and obtained a court order prohibiting the ISP from releasing the information, which the ISP could not publicly say the agency wanted.

The link to 430ILCS66/1 et al is http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=3497&ChapterID=39

I just moved back to Illinois from a few year stint in Cali, any recommendations as to where to take a CCW course in Chicagoland?

Article 2 is close, but I'd rather support a private trainer.

I'm in Bartlett.

Black Flag Training. Rocco W (Rockdiver here) is the head instructor and can't be beat. I wish I'd taken my CCL class with him. But I've taken two of his Force on Force classes as well as a weapons retention class.

You'll have to drive a bit, but the classes are well worth it.

Black Flag Training

And the cookies...Mrs. Rocco makes the best cookies for all his classes.

When Illinois law changes, there are some Missourians who will be taking classes.

I appreciate the response but he has nothing scheduled.

Did you contact him? I've found the online calendar wonky before.

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For me it`s the price, I really can not afford it.  I also think the training requirements,  and cost is excessive, but that was an attempt by Chicago to make it hard to get a permit because they don`t want anybody to have guns. For me though the training is only 8 hours.

sounds like a good time to take the class, sounds like it won't be crowded.

I take a little bit of offense to this comment and here is why... Longevity does not make you great.  





I did get into firearm training at the time that Illinois Concealed Carry was becoming a reality, but not because I thought it would make me rich, but because I was miserable in my career and wanted to do something I enjoy. I closed the business I owned for 10 years to focus on training as a FULL TIME job, not as a side business or get rich quick business.  It truly was my intention to continue offering quality concealed carry classes until the time I retire.





It still is my intention, however after 6 months of doing it full time, when the market tanked, it became apparent I would not be able to meet my obligations by doing it.  Class fees dropped BELOW my cost to do the job, many instructors who didn't know their costs of doing business put themselves out of business, and me right along with them.  





I got back into training only recently after diggin myself out of the hole that it put me into. 6 months to dig the hole and over a year to dig out.  Woo Hoo get rich quick! But I enjoy doing it, and will continue to do so.





Back to my original comment, Longevity does not make you great. I have met some instructors who have been instructing for many many years. Some know their stuff but are dull and monotone and I would likely fall asleep on them. Some are full of confidence but have no clue what they are talking about.  Others are great!  But what makes you great at something is not how long you have been doing it, but how much you enjoy doing it. What makes you great at something is how much of yourself you invest into constantly getting better at doing it.  What makes you better at something is the time and energy you spend researching your topic, and proving or disproving your theories.   The benefit of longevity is that an instructor who has been doing it awhile and really cares about what he or she is doing has the time to perfect their technique. But just because someone has been doing something awhile does not make them great.





So now I continue to train Illinois Concealed carry in the Chicago area, but currently only do private groups rather than schedule a class and not have enough students to break even.





 

Agree even if my post didn't come off quite like that. Longevity doesn't automatically make you good. Being successful over a long period of time is just one indicator. If you're in it for the long haul that says something. That's separates you from all the get rich quick guys.

Took my first 8 hr. course today, there was two of us. Tomorrow there may be a couple more.

Where at?

I assisted in a class yesterday that had 12 students. I am glad to see schools are still doing well. Most of those students were from referral.

Down Range Tactical

There was three of us today,

Yep, those 'higher up' are the problem and not just at the very top. I have nothing but good to say about the folks doing the actual work at ISP. Every one of them I've dealt with along with all of them my students have dealt with have been great. I sympathize with them. They have bosses and bosses of bosses trying to make the entire process difficult while they sit at the bottom trying to do a good job. I know from experience that sucks.