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Posted: 8/12/2012 12:14:25 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Just saying.. My stamps got back in the mail week before last... on a Revocable Living Trust. 
I was hoping this bill would allow me to bring them to ILL to use as I have family there but looks like that isn't happening. Get a C&R. If ATF approves your 5320.20 you should be GTG. |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 1:42:11 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
I think it's obvious from the legislative histories of the bill/law last year as well as this year, that person or persons very influential in the workings of the machine wanted this to happen. There's no other explanation for why a laundry list of anti-gun chicago dems voted for this, why the governor signed it, or that it was even brought to the floor in the house for a vote. If Boss Madigan didn't want this to happen, it would have never been called for a vote - but it was, last year for the original bill and this year to fix the wording. The intent statement and the other stuff in there is pretty window dressing to deflect criticism from the media or others. SBRs are reasonably esoteric and no real media demonization campaign against them so it can slip through under the radar. The practical effect, the number of people who are effected by it are reasonably limited and the general public will never know. What you're saying is logical enough....while Quinn is dumb as a bag of hammers, Madigan isn't...but why would Madigan and his friendswant to expand gun rights in IL? If they really did this on purpose...I have to wonder what they got in exchange for their acquiescence. And as far as demonizing SBRs, the anti's have that covered....the correct buzz-word is "sawed off", I believe. |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 8:12:42 PM EDT
[#3]
It's going to be interesting to see where this goes. First, I have a hard time believing that the IL government would pass this....but - if it was meant to only affect re-enactors, why did they change it? That's what it said before.
Now, I'm wondering if it has greater effect. This change is to number 7 of subsection c, which states: (c) Subsection 24-1(a)(7) does not apply to or affect any of the following: blah blah blah. Well, if you read the rest of the Criminal Code of 1961, subsection 24-1(a)(7) deals with possession and ownership of a machine gun, SBR or explosive device. So, if you have a C&R AND an SBR, are you now able to purchase a machine gun? Just wondering. The wording of it seems a bit off. Boot. |
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Posted: 8/13/2012 8:51:34 AM EDT
[#4]
So what if you live in a unincorporated area? I think I would have to go to the Dupage Sheriff. For the sig on the form. Right?
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Posted: 8/13/2012 1:19:44 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
So what if you live in a unincorporated area? I think I would have to go to the Dupage Sheriff. For the sig on the form. Right? I would say the rule of thumb is whoever you call for your police coverage is who will sign your paperwork. So in your case, yes the Dupage Sheriff will sign it |
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Posted: 8/13/2012 1:48:53 PM EDT
[#6]
I mailed off my C&R application today. I have a feeling that by the time I get it back we'll have an answer one way or the other on this matter.
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Posted: 8/13/2012 2:56:01 PM EDT
[#7]
Just as a side note this doesnt take affect until jan 1 2013. Not sure what this means to the time line for getting the form 1 sent in.
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Posted: 8/13/2012 4:28:08 PM EDT
[#8]
It looks like 6 months is the turn-around time on Form 1.
Its an interesting question, because you don't possess the SBR until the stamp is approved because at that point your regular receiver prest-o change- becomes an SBR. So knowing that the turn around time is 6 months, individuals with C&R licenses could send in their Form 1 today and theoretically get approved in Feb. 2013. Of course, if the approval process suddenly becomes super-efficient and you're approved prior to Jan 1, 2013, I guess you'd have a problem. Again, I think it is all going to turn on CLEO signing the Form 1. Any thoughts? Anybody talk to their CLEO today? |
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Posted: 8/13/2012 4:48:35 PM EDT
[#9]
FYI - Here is the Form 1 description of CLEO:
"Law Enforcement Certification. The chief law enforcement officer is considered to be the Chief of Police for the maker’s city or town of residence, the Sheriff for the maker’s county of residence; the Head of the State Police for the maker’s State of residence; a State or local district attorney or prosecutor having jurisdiction in the maker’s area of residence; or another person whose certifcation is acceptable to the Director, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and Explosives. If someone has specific delegated authority to sign on behalf of the Chief of Police, Sheriff, etc., this fact must be noted by printing the Chief’s, Sheriff’s, or other authorized official’s name and title, followed by the word “by” and the full signature and title of the delegated person. Item 13 must be completed for an individual maker. The certification must be dated no more than one year prior to the date of receipt of the application" Sounds like you can pick any of the above to execute your Form 1. |
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Posted: 8/13/2012 5:42:24 PM EDT
[#10]
I talked to mine today and they said that it shouldn't be a problem to get everything signed off on. Filling out paperwork to turn in ASAP.
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Posted: 8/13/2012 5:55:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
I talked to mine today and they said that it shouldn't be a problem to get everything signed off on. Filling out paperwork to turn in ASAP. C&R paperwork or Form 1 paperwork? |
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Posted: 8/13/2012 7:28:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Form 1 paper work. I already have my C&R
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Posted: 8/13/2012 7:44:13 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Form 1 paper work. I already have my C&R Would be interesting to game the system by applying now, under the assumption that an examiner (or other party) won't read it until after Jan 1. |
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Posted: 8/13/2012 11:43:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Hmm. Jan 1? why not now?
Oh well, still have to wait on my C&R. . . . . |
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Posted: 8/14/2012 6:23:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Well, my Chief said no worries...bring the stuff in at 1pm today. He even said "we'd see what we could do" on the fingerprint charge. I just hope it still takes them 6 months to get me my stamp or at least 5!
I'll follow up after my meeting at 1pm. I wonder what ATF ATL is going to say when they get flooded with C&R apps from Illinois! DC |
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Posted: 8/14/2012 7:48:50 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
I wonder what ATF ATL is going to say when they get flooded with C&R apps from Illinois! DC Mine is in the mail today!! I've been planning on submitting the app, this was the motivation I needed! 
ETA: Todd Vandermyde:
Today, Governor Quinn signed HB-4901a bill that would legalize rifles with barrels shorter than 16" for those people who hold a curio & relic or collectors license issued by ATF. The change in law is not limited to those rifles that are classified as C & R firearms, the C&R license, is merely a prerequisite/condition of ownership. Kinda like a FOID card is for Illinois residents. ***** I almost forgot, the law takes effect January 1, 2013 |
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Posted: 8/14/2012 1:05:42 PM EDT
[#17]
Well my meeting went fine. Met with the Police Chief and the Sheriff just happened to be there too. Talked with both and the Chief seemed a little hesitant as to what it was he was signing exactly. The Sheriff is an FFL holder himself and explained what I was wanting signed. In the end, the Sheriff signed my Form 1. The Chief called downstairs and had them run my prints for free. They even provided me the two blank 258 cards that I filed in with the ORI for the NFA branch. All in all, I was out the door in 40 minutes with my print cards and freshly inked Form 1.
I'm not sure how it would have gone if the Sheriff wasn't there or if neither would have been familiar with NFA. Chief kind of thought it was a personal voucher of some sort that said he knew me and that I was an okay guy. I don't blame anyone at all...but I see that with this being very unfamiliar territory that CLEO's that are not familiar with NFA may be hesitant to sign, simply because they aren't really certain of what they are signing. I'm sure as time goes by, they'll learn through experience. I may have been his first, but I bet good money I'm not his last within the next few weeks. I did make sure I had a copy of the new public act printed from the legislative website as well so they could look at it. In the end, it all went fine. I hope everyone else has good luck. DC |
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Posted: 8/14/2012 3:09:48 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
snip DC Glad to hear it! Care to share what county you reside in? We could always refer our sheriffs/police chiefs to your guy if they had any questions. |
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Posted: 8/14/2012 3:38:22 PM EDT
[#19]
You bet, anything that might help someone else! I'm here in Coles county.
DC |
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Posted: 8/15/2012 7:27:48 AM EDT
[#20]
what the fuck Iowa is so retarded you guys are lucky
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Posted: 8/15/2012 8:38:13 AM EDT
[#21]
Suddenly Illinois isn't quite as terrible!
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Posted: 8/15/2012 8:59:20 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
what the fuck Iowa is so retarded you guys are lucky I guess if I could conceal and carry my SBR for self-defense then I'd feel lucky
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Posted: 8/15/2012 10:05:03 AM EDT
[#23]
Anyone have an idea as to which way Kane County (unincorporated) would lean on this in regards to the CLEO sign off?
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Posted: 8/15/2012 10:20:28 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Anyone have an idea as to which way Kane County (unincorporated) would lean on this in regards to the CLEO sign off? I'm not sure how Kane county will handle the CLEO signatures, but I want to remind everyone that you can establish a revocable living trust (also called a "revocable inter vivos trust" or simply a "living trust") and avoid both the CLEO signature and fingerprints requirements for Form 1. The ATF has said many times that a business entity, legal organization, or trust can hold NFA items. I have a trust in Indiana for this very reason. |
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Posted: 8/15/2012 10:40:43 AM EDT
[#25]
The question is, can a trust have a FOID card?
Or can a trust own a firearm without a FOID card? |
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Posted: 8/15/2012 10:52:59 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
The question is, can a trust have a FOID card? Or can a trust own a firearm without a FOID card? No, a trust cannot hold a FOID card. A trust can own a regular firearm and an NFA item. The trustee (you) and beneficiary (you) of the trust must hold the FOID card and C&R license. ETA: I would run down the statutes and properly cite this for everyone, but my plate is full right now. I'm pretty sure there's an estates planning lawyer on here who can chime in. I'll try to find him again. |
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Posted: 8/15/2012 11:21:45 AM EDT
[#27]
Perfect! That is what we need for all of us NFA newbies
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Posted: 8/15/2012 2:06:07 PM EDT
[#28]
I was thinking about the trust route, but really in the end, it just seemed like more of a pain than it was worth. It was my plan "B" though if the meeting went badly. Anyone else had their stuff signed yet? I want to be the first SBR in the state! Haa haa haa.
DC |
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Posted: 8/15/2012 2:54:21 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
I was thinking about the trust route, but really in the end, it just seemed like more of a pain than it was worth. It was my plan "B" though if the meeting went badly. Anyone else had their stuff signed yet? I want to be the first SBR in the state! Haa haa haa. DC Hope you're not the first arrested by the cop at the range who doesn't understand the new law.
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Posted: 8/15/2012 3:00:37 PM EDT
[#30]
Right! Nothing like being a guinea pig. I plan on having laminated copies of my C&R, Form 1, and a copy of the public act whenever it leaves the safe. Hopefully, calm heads will prevail if there is every a question. Fortunately, I'm in the middle of farmville, so my range is the backyard.
DC |
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Posted: 8/15/2012 4:16:41 PM EDT
[#31]
Backyard range....ah...I dream of a backyard range.
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Posted: 8/15/2012 6:25:58 PM EDT
[#32]
I am trying to figure out this new law to, what kind of sbr is allowed does it have to meet a c&r requirment or can it be any short barreled rifle .
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Posted: 8/15/2012 6:31:59 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Anyone have an idea as to which way Kane County (unincorporated) would lean on this in regards to the CLEO sign off? Despite being a Dem, Pat Perez is pro CCW. I wouldn't be surprised if he'd sign off on a SBR. |
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Posted: 8/16/2012 4:58:23 AM EDT
[#34]
I've had C&R for several years. My CLEO received the required copy of my last renewal, so he knows about me. I plan to mail
him a letter asking him to sign the applications with a copy of the new legislation and C&R license, and that I ordered the proper fingerprint cards from BATF's online forms site. Letter will also state that I will pay any reasonable fingerprinting fee. Not sure if all CLEOs will be informed about new law. Mail/dropoff a copy for them. |
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Posted: 8/16/2012 9:44:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Anyone have an idea as to which way Kane County (unincorporated) would lean on this in regards to the CLEO sign off? Despite being a Dem, Pat Perez is pro CCW. I wouldn't be surprised if he'd sign off on a SBR. Likely I will find out here in the next few months, I am in Kane County too! |
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Posted: 8/16/2012 10:07:51 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
I am trying to figure out this new law to, what kind of sbr is allowed does it have to meet a c&r requirment or can it be any short barreled rifle . It would appear it can be any SBR. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 5:39:49 AM EDT
[#37]
Just the motivation I needed to finally get that C&R. Dropped my application in the mail this morning.
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Posted: 8/17/2012 6:21:38 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am trying to figure out this new law to, what kind of sbr is allowed does it have to meet a c&r requirment or can it be any short barreled rifle . It would appear it can be any SBR. Agreed. The old statutory language required the SBR to be vintage or a modern reproduction of a vintage SBR and the purpose of possession must have been for historical military re-enactment. The new language is crystal clear. You can possess an SBR if a) you have a C&R license OR b) you are a member of a military re-enacting group. There is no language tying possession of an SBR specifically to military re-enactment or of limiting the kind of SBR one may possess. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 7:10:09 AM EDT
[#39]
with c&r do you have to have a place of business? Can they search you home with out warrant?
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Posted: 8/17/2012 7:45:10 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
with c&r do you have to have a place of business? Can they search you home with out warrant? No and NO
ETA: The C&R FFL is for collecting. It is a $30 fee for three years of licensure and the application is very easy to fill out. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 3:08:42 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
with c&r do you have to have a place of business? Can they search you home with out warrant? No and NO
ETA: The C&R FFL is for collecting. It is a $30 fee for three years of licensure and the application is very easy to fill out. I believe your C&R will be revoked if you use it for business purposes. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 3:21:11 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
with c&r do you have to have a place of business? Can they search you home with out warrant? No and NO
ETA: The C&R FFL is for collecting. It is a $30 fee for three years of licensure and the application is very easy to fill out. I believe your C&R will be revoked if you use it for business purposes. Yet the application form references "business" operations in multiple places. They really need to fix their own documents. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 8:34:02 PM EDT
[#43]
this only means more waiting for the stamp for rest of us folks... :(
but congratz never the less.. i like how the trend is moving toward more favorably for gun owners. now if can remove the federal law for stamp for owning an SBR.. that would be super. the ATF wait period is just horrible.. |
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Posted: 8/18/2012 2:36:07 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
this only means more waiting for the stamp for rest of us folks... :( but congratz never the less.. i like how the trend is moving toward more favorably for gun owners. now if can remove the federal law for stamp for owning an SBR.. that would be super. the ATF wait period is just horrible.. I've read this entire thread and still don't understand what's going on. If I get a C&R and a trust, I can now posess an SBR? |
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Posted: 8/18/2012 2:40:20 PM EDT
[#45]
You dont even need the trust...just the C&R. My stuff is signed and ready! Just playing the system against the calendar now to make sure it doesn't get approved before Jan 01.
DC |
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Posted: 8/18/2012 2:50:16 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
You dont even need the trust...just the C&R. My stuff is signed and ready! Just playing the system against the calendar now to make sure it doesn't get approved before Jan 01. DC But I would need the CLEO signature, right? |
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Posted: 8/18/2012 3:10:16 PM EDT
[#47]
I think I will have mine the first week of January.
But I've got a bit of a leg up on the rest of you folks. 
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Posted: 8/18/2012 7:36:03 PM EDT
[#48]
I'm confused by the "compliance" part. Do I need the CLEO's signature for that? Do I have to keep a log if I never intend to buy an C&R firearms?
Recommendations on a place/lawyer for the trust? |
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Posted: 8/19/2012 3:38:08 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Anyone have an idea as to which way Kane County (unincorporated) would lean on this in regards to the CLEO sign off? Despite being a Dem, Pat Perez is pro CCW. I wouldn't be surprised if he'd sign off on a SBR. Likely I will find out here in the next few months, I am in Kane County too! I know a bunch of the guys that work for him, and have a key to their range so I shoot with them a bunch. Pretty sure it wouldn't be an issue. He seems like a decent guy. |
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Posted: 8/19/2012 3:38:49 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
I think I will have mine the first week of January. But I've got a bit of a leg up on the rest of you folks. Bet my leg's bigger
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