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Tango7
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Posted: 6/27/2012 11:25:06 PM

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So Rahmbo decides to tell his cops to issue citations for "minor" pot possession rather than go through the full arrest and process procedure.

Now I haven't reviewed the statutes in depth on the issue, but it seems like they are handling this criminal act in a different fashion than state law would dictate.

So, what''s to stop communities or counties from adopting a similar policy for CCW barring any other criminal activity?
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SilverLamp
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Posted: 6/28/2012 12:56:45 AM
It is my understanding that a municipality can concurrently exercise its police power with the state. City of Chicago v. Roman, 705 N.E. 2d. 81 (Ill. App. 1st Dist. 1997). So long as the state has not expressly prohibited municipal regulation of a subject, a municipality may concurrently regulate the subject as long as its regulations do not conflict with state law. Id. Obviously, there is a lot of political gray in this area.

Some examples:

1) Under 720 ILCS 5/12-38, the state expressly prohibits municipalities from regulating the purchase or acquisition of a caustic or corrosive substance. Here, a municipality cannot act under any circumstances to regulate the purchase or acquisition of a caustic or corrosive substance.

2) My understanding of Chicago's new cannabis law is that it concurrently regulates cannabis and does not "conflict" with state law. Here, "conflict" is given a very narrow meaning whereby a municipal ordinance conflicts with state law only if it prohibits the doing of something the state permits or permits the doing of something the state prohibits. I could very well be wrong here.

3) My understanding of the municipality-rule concept in regards to firearms is that state law expressly prohibits carrying a concealed firearm. A municipal ordinance permitting the carrying of a concealed firearm would be in direct conflict with state law and would therefore be void.
Tango7
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Posted: 6/28/2012 8:23:54 PM
Originally Posted By SilverLamp:
It is my understanding that a municipality can concurrently exercise its police power with the state. City of Chicago v. Roman, 705 N.E. 2d. 81 (Ill. App. 1st Dist. 1997).


Thus the reason why many municipalities create Ordinances with nearly identical language to the State Statutes, although how that doesn't trip double jeopardy is by the thinnest of judicial and legislative flim-flammery.

3) My understanding of the municipality-rule concept in regards to firearms is that state law expressly prohibits carrying a concealed firearm. A municipal ordinance permitting the carrying of a concealed firearm would be in direct conflict with state law and would therefore be void.


I have heard this repeatedly, and it may be a matter of "understanding", but I tried to look for statutory and (state) constitutional language that expressely stated that and I could not find it.

Is this a matter of this concept being an "accepted nature of the law" or something I'm unaware of?
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D233
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Posted: 6/28/2012 10:16:39 PM
[Last Edit: 6/28/2012 10:21:13 PM by D233]
Originally Posted By Tango7:
So Rahmbo decides to tell his cops to issue citations for "minor" pot possession rather than go through the full arrest and process procedure.

Now I haven't reviewed the statutes in depth on the issue, but it seems like they are handling this criminal act in a different fashion than state law would dictate.

So, what''s to stop communities or counties from adopting a similar policy for CCW barring any other criminal activity?


Not really. Most home rule towns already do it. I'm actually surprised it took Chicago so long. It's merely enacting a local ordinance that permits you to write someone a ticket and it's handled in traffic/ordinance court rather than criminal. Takes burden off states attorney's office for minor charges. It's only a big deal because they claiming it was "de-criminalized" which does not mean "legalized."

A city can make an ordinance more restrictive than state law, but not less restrictive, i.e. can't permit CCW.

It's not double jeopardy to have two ways to charge someone. Only if you charge them both ways, or retry a case they are acquitted of.
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SilverLamp
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Posted: 6/28/2012 10:23:39 PM
This question will almost certainly be answered in the case law. I doubt there's any case law on point, so your job will be to analogize between fact patterns.

For example, in City of DeKalb v. White, 591 N.E. 2d. 522 (Ill. App. 2 Dist. 1992), the court held that "although home rule municipality could exercise any power or could legislate to protect public health, safety, and welfare of its community, the Illinois vehicle code had to be applicable and uniform throughout the state and no municipality could enact or enforce any ordinance in conflict with its provisions."

In opposition to that case is Witvoet v. Quinlan, 354 N.E. 2d. 524 (Ill. App. 1 Dist. 1976), although ILCS "[section] pertaining to protection of farmers, fruit growers, vine growers, and gardeners granted to farmers an “undisputed right to sell” their produce in direct conflict with attempt by city of Chicago to limit such right via an ordinance prohibiting the selling, packing and storing of produce on a public way, where foodstuffs and, especially, produce were subject to spoilage and vermin and, as such, presented a serious health hazard unless closely supervised by local authorities, ordinance was enacted for the protection of the public health and safety and, as such, constituted a valid exercise of the home rule power of the city."

Perhaps if a municipality argued that it permits concealed carry of a firearm for public health and safety reasons it could survive an attack for being in direct conflict of a state statute.

I don't know about this one though. There are 685 cases in the "notes on decisions" section of Westlaw concerning the powers of home-rule units and I simply don't have the time to sift through all of them.

Tango7
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Posted: 6/29/2012 8:37:14 PM
Originally Posted By SilverLamp:
I don't know about this one though. There are 685 cases in the "notes on decisions" section of Westlaw concerning the powers of home-rule units and I simply don't have the time to sift through all of them.



Hey, it's more info than I've gotten other than (essentially) "That's the way it is". At work I've disproven several "facts" that turned out to be rumors simply by RTFM as it were.

Thanks.
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you haven't brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble - Kharn

LTC Chessani USMC - TYVM

Keep ur powdr dry- liberty tree's thirsty