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Posted: 2/28/2017 8:25:51 PM EDT
In about eight years, I'm planning to move to either Wisconsin or Michigan. I want to buy 40 acres or so for deer hunting. I also want to fish, ski, and not get ass-raped with property taxes. I've spent only a small amount of time in either state. You guys live in Wisconsin, so what do you think?

Cross posted to the Michigan HTF.
Link Posted: 2/28/2017 9:40:32 PM EDT
[#1]
Are you a FIB? If so I am pretty sure Michigan will be much more desirable for you.

Relatively similar landscape for both states. Similar out door opportunities.  Taxes are relative to each person on what is bad.  I don't find the taxes up north WI all that bad. Don't pay taxes in Michigan so wouldn't know personally.  That being said, quick google search produced this article from 2015 stating Wisconsin is the worst in the midwest, with Michigan a few places behind for property taxes.

Some friends from Michigan a while back said there are huge meth problems out in the countryside of Michigan, both people using and labs to feed Detroit.  I would think Wisconsin has its own set of issues, but none immediately coming to mind.  

I like it well enough here.  On the other hand I wouldn't choose WI or MI given the choice.  I would have moved to the mountains of Montana, Wyoming, Washington or Colorado by now if my wife would let me.
Link Posted: 2/28/2017 9:55:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Are you a FIB? If so I am pretty sure Michigan will be much more desirable for you.

Relatively similar landscape for both states. Similar out door opportunities.  Taxes are relative to each person on what is bad.  I don't find the taxes up north WI all that bad. Don't pay taxes in Michigan so wouldn't know personally.  That being said, quick google search produced this article from 2015 stating Wisconsin is the worst in the midwest, with Michigan a few places behind for property taxes.

Some friends from Michigan a while back said there are huge meth problems out in the countryside of Michigan, both people using and labs to feed Detroit.  I would think Wisconsin has its own set of issues, but none immediately coming to mind.  

I like it well enough here.  On the other hand I wouldn't choose WI or MI given the choice.  I would have moved to the mountains of Montana, Wyoming, Washington or Colorado by now if my wife would let me.
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lol what's an FIB?

Montana, Wyoming, et al. are appealing, as is Alaska for that matter, but I'm trying to be realistic. I grew up in the Northeast, so I'd like to be somewhat close to family. I also have kids who will eventually grow up and have to find jobs, and there are simply more jobs in the Midwest than the mountain West.
Link Posted: 2/28/2017 10:22:50 PM EDT
[#3]
Ah.  Gotcha.

FIB is an essential term if you end up living over this way.  It is a term of endearment we have for Illinois people, more often than not Chicagoland people specifically.  It stands for Fxxxing Illinois Bastard.

I was thinking you meant retiring to one of the two states.  With your further explanation, both WI or MI would be good, but I would pull for WI.  Just avoid Dane and Milwaukee County in particular if you want to avoid some of the heavier property taxes.  (I have lived in both, they are bad, particularly MKE County.)
Link Posted: 3/1/2017 7:30:10 AM EDT
[#4]
If kids, jobs and futures are involved, WI.  No comparison really.

However, you probably need to fine tune your search parameters.

The tax issue is very easy to resolve mentally.  If you have lived in places that don't have a lot of quality public land access, polluted waters, crowded forests and shit cities all over, you will feel like you are getting your money's worth here.
Link Posted: 3/1/2017 10:05:59 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If kids, jobs and futures are involved, WI.  No comparison really.

However, you probably need to fine tune your search parameters.

The tax issue is very easy to resolve mentally.  If you have lived in places that don't have a lot of quality public land access, polluted waters, crowded forests and shit cities all over, you will feel like you are getting your money's worth here.
View Quote


I agree.

A tale about property taxes. I moved to WI from a burb of shitcago in 1991. Not one of those high dollar burbs, but working class with nice neat homes. My property taxes there were roughly $1400 when I left. I had a 4 bedroom brick home, single car garage, on a half acre lot. To find somewhere to shoot, it was an hour drive...in traffic. Nowhere to hunt, not much fishing nearby. There was Lake Michigan, but I had to drive through city traffic (and ghettos) to get there. I'm a snowmobiler, not much of that there either.

Moved to Vilas County WI in 1991, at the age of 41. Got a nicer, & 40 yrs newer, 4 bedroom frame home, attached 2 car garage, on several acres of woods. I built a 36'X36' pole barn. The equity in the IL home was enough to buy this one outright, no loans. National forest is right down the road, the nearest town just a few miles the other direction. I am surrounded by water, fishing lakes up the ying yang, more public hunting land than I could ever want, and a snowmobile trail right outside my doorstep. Violent crime is almost non-existant. Taxes when I moved in were about $50 LESS than my taxes in IL.

Fast forward to today. Recently I did an online  "look up" of our old home in IL for another reason, but in the process found that both properties have appreciated about the same percentage. But the taxes on the IL property rose from $1400 in 1991 to $4900 in 2015. The taxes on my WI property were $1365 ~ in 1991, today (2016 taxes) they are $1425.

Bottom line... I have zero complaints on the amount of property taxes I pay here in my part of WI. Taxes in general...different story.

eta: OP... That 40 acres you talk about isn't getting any cheaper. Vacant hunting land was about $500 per acre for high land when I moved here 25 years ago. It's now up to about $2500 for all high ground, forested with hard woods, hunting land.... mixed high & low land can be had for about $2K per acre. Cheaper land can still be found across the border in the Upper Peninsula of MI. Don't know much about the taxes up there, but everything else is about the same as WI's northwoods (public hunting-fishing access). I like our gun laws better though...much better here IMO. Wasn't always that way, but it sure is now.
Link Posted: 3/1/2017 12:14:00 PM EDT
[#6]
US News Best States

I don't put much stock in the above and they ranked some states I wouldn't go near too highly in my opinion, but article made me think of this thread.  

FWIW, they rank Wisconsin much better than Michigan.
Link Posted: 3/1/2017 12:20:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I agree.

A tale about property taxes. I moved to WI from a burb of shitcago in 1991. Not one of those high dollar burbs, but working class with nice neat homes. My property taxes there were roughly $1400 when I left. I had a 4 bedroom brick home, single car garage, on a half acre lot. To find somewhere to shoot, it was an hour drive...in traffic. Nowhere to hunt, not much fishing nearby. There was Lake Michigan, but I had to drive through city traffic (and ghettos) to get there. I'm a snowmobiler, not much of that there either.

Moved to Vilas County WI in 1991, at the age of 41. Got a nicer, & 40 yrs newer, 4 bedroom frame home, attached 2 car garage, on several acres of woods. I built a 36'X36' pole barn. The equity in the IL home was enough to buy this one outright, no loans. National forest is right down the road, the nearest town just a few miles the other direction. I am surrounded by water, fishing lakes up the ying yang, more public hunting land than I could ever want, and a snowmobile trail right outside my doorstep. Violent crime is almost non-existant. Taxes when I moved in were about $50 LESS than my taxes in IL.

Fast forward to today. Recently I did an online  "look up" of our old home in IL for another reason, but in the process found that both properties have appreciated about the same percentage. But the taxes on the IL property rose from $1400 in 1991 to $4900 in 2015. The taxes on my WI property were $1365 ~ in 1991, today (2016 taxes) they are $1425.

Bottom line... I have zero complaints on the amount of property taxes I pay here in my part of WI. Taxes in general...different story.

eta: OP... That 40 acres you talk about isn't getting any cheaper. Vacant hunting land was about $500 per acre for high land when I moved here 25 years ago. It's now up to about $2500 for all high ground, forested with hard woods, hunting land.... mixed high & low land can be had for about $2K per acre. Cheaper land can still be found across the border in the Upper Peninsula of MI. Don't know much about the taxes up there, but everything else is about the same as WI's northwoods (public hunting-fishing access). I like our gun laws better though...much better here IMO. Wasn't always that way, but it sure is now.
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Ouch.  Just drives home how bad taxes in Milwaukee County really are.

And the violent crime comment is true.  City of Milwaukee is the worst, City of Racine not so great, some in the Madison area or Green Bay, but nothing compared to MKE.  With the amount of land you want, you won't be looking in these areas anyways.  Though there are still some good deals on land to be had in Racine County, away from the City of Racine.  Who knows where it will be in eight years though.
Link Posted: 3/1/2017 6:19:10 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If kids, jobs and futures are involved, WI.  No comparison really.

However, you probably need to fine tune your search parameters.

The tax issue is very easy to resolve mentally.  If you have lived in places that don't have a lot of quality public land access, polluted waters, crowded forests and shit cities all over, you will feel like you are getting your money's worth here.
View Quote


Jobs for me, my wife, and my by then newly adult children will definitely be a big concern. Wisconsin also looks to have slightly lower in-state tuition at the state colleges than Michigan too.
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 1:42:19 PM EDT
[#9]
I have always liked the UP but would rather live in WI
Ideally a border area would be good for you.
Florence county maybe...property taxes are weird up north though...so I don't know if Florence went the way of Forrest or Taylor counties...
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 1:53:17 PM EDT
[#10]
the type of work OP does makes a big difference on where in WI.
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 2:24:29 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
the type of work OP does makes a big difference on where in WI.
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hopefully 8 yrs of President Trump might make that easier...
Link Posted: 3/15/2017 3:08:36 PM EDT
[#12]
For deer hunting, I would avoid the northern 1/3 of Wisconsin.  The herd is crazy low.  Personally, I really like the area from Wisconsin Dells going towards Oshkosh.  Lots of deer in the farmland band of the state, plenty of lakes/rivers for fishing, and far enough to be away from the cities but only a couple hours from Milwaukee or Madison.  To give you an idea of prices, I know several people that I have bought properties through this realtor. Whitemarsh Properties
Link Posted: 3/15/2017 3:55:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Born and raised in Suburban Detroit.  
Living in Suburban Milwaukee for the last 13 years.  

I would move back to Michigan if I could find a job in the Northwestern chunk of the State.  Beautiful lakes, forests and rolling landscape.  Great hunting and fishing too.  I couldn't imagine ever moving back to the Detroit area.  The only thing I miss from there is good food and my family.  

I love Wisconsin.  Taxes are reasonable IMO, people in the metro Milwaukee area are nicer than the Detroit area and I have quick access to the city or country.  Got to be honest, deer hunting has sucked for the past several years, but I only hunt in Algoma.  

Beer is better in Wisconsin too.
Link Posted: 3/15/2017 6:24:59 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
For deer hunting, I would avoid the northern 1/3 of Wisconsin.  The herd is crazy low.  Personally, I really like the area from Wisconsin Dells going towards Oshkosh.  Lots of deer in the farmland band of the state, plenty of lakes/rivers for fishing, and far enough to be away from the cities but only a couple hours from Milwaukee or Madison.  To give you an idea of prices, I know several people that I have bought properties through this realtor. Whitemarsh Properties
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thank a wolf
Link Posted: 3/15/2017 10:45:16 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
For deer hunting, I would avoid the northern 1/3 of Wisconsin.  The herd is crazy low.  Personally, I really like the area from Wisconsin Dells going towards Oshkosh.  Lots of deer in the farmland band of the state, plenty of lakes/rivers for fishing, and far enough to be away from the cities but only a couple hours from Milwaukee or Madison.  To give you an idea of prices, I know several people that I have bought properties through this realtor. Whitemarsh Properties
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I was thinking Central WI, rather than Northern.

Prices on that site seem about like what I had figured.
Link Posted: 3/15/2017 10:46:53 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Born and raised in Suburban Detroit.  
Living in Suburban Milwaukee for the last 13 years.  

I would move back to Michigan if I could find a job in the Northwestern chunk of the State.  Beautiful lakes, forests and rolling landscape.  Great hunting and fishing too.  I couldn't imagine ever moving back to the Detroit area.  The only thing I miss from there is good food and my family.  

I love Wisconsin.  Taxes are reasonable IMO, people in the metro Milwaukee area are nicer than the Detroit area and I have quick access to the city or country.  Got to be honest, deer hunting has sucked for the past several years, but I only hunt in Algoma.  

Beer is better in Wisconsin too.
View Quote


Believe me, beer quality is definitely going to be a factor.

I haven't spent a lot of time in Northwest Michigan, but the few times I've traveled there, I was immensely impressed. Beautiful, beautiful area.
Link Posted: 3/16/2017 1:02:01 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Believe me, beer quality is definitely going to be a factor.

I haven't spent a lot of time in Northwest Michigan, but the few times I've traveled there, I was immensely impressed. Beautiful, beautiful area.
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My goal has been to move to the Traverse City area ever since I was a little kid.
Link Posted: 3/16/2017 5:09:17 PM EDT
[#18]
As soon as I can afford to take a pay cut, I'm going to look for another job in Green Bay/Appleton area just to get a few hours closer to the north woods. I can't wait to get out of Milwaukee. We only live here to pay for our trips up north...
Link Posted: 3/16/2017 7:20:08 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:


thank a wolf
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"A" wolf? More like 1,000 wolves, and increasing. Bears & coyotes take most of the fawns, wolves get the adults.

Wolves are reproducing faster than I can dig holes. j/k
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 9:26:03 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I was thinking Central WI, rather than Northern.

Prices on that site seem about like what I had figured.
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Not dissing CWI but I feel northern WI is a bit more scenic.

I have lived in 4 states & have been to the UP many times. I would not choose MI over WI.

Around me asking price is ~$2,000/acre. I have a piece of property I am working on purchasing that is a 40acre parcel with a house for $100k. Already have a house in town & this one would be an additional one for rental & recreational use.
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 10:47:19 AM EDT
[#21]
Been looking for a 20+ acre piece of wooded paradise for a few years now.

Thing is, everyone is looking for the same thing.  Therefore prices are insane for anything decent.  Really good property never gets listed...licked up by family and neighbors before it makes it to market.

If I was a waterfowl hunter the market would be perfect.  Most the land you see for sale is swampy lowlands.  I kind of gave up looking when I found the perfect property ... 80 acres, close to Medford, with a good size private lake in the corner for a doable price.  Went to look at it and turned out the entire 80 was waterlogged.  Figured it was too good to be true.

I've since turned my attention to small lake lots instead.  Either way it's starting to look like a vacation property is out of my league.
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 11:56:21 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Been looking for a 20+ acre piece of wooded paradise for a few years now.

Thing is, everyone is looking for the same thing.  Therefore prices are insane for anything decent.  Really good property never gets listed...licked up by family and neighbors before it makes it to market.

If I was a waterfowl hunter the market would be perfect.  Most the land you see for sale is swampy lowlands.  I kind of gave up looking when I found the perfect property ... 80 acres, close to Medford, with a good size private lake in the corner for a doable price.  Went to look at it and turned out the entire 80 was waterlogged.  Figured it was too good to be true.
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About 2 years ago, my buddy bid on behalf of 4 of us on a 50 acre parcel of swamp that was foreclosed on by the county for unpaid taxes. There is a creek running through it, and of the 50 acres, only about 5 would not be considered swampland, and that 5 is a hill in the center of the property, across the creek. My friend already owns 5 acres that seperates this property from the nearest road access, except for a 60' wide portion that touches the road, and the creek crosses under the road into the property dead center of that 60'.  His 5 acre property is long and narrow and parallells the road, and is on the east side. He has a cabin and a new pole barn on it. His dad owns 11 acres across the road, he and his brother own lake homes about 1/2 mile away too, each on several acres.  On the north side of the foreclosed 50 is a property that itself is 2 years delinquent on the taxes. On the south side is a 30 acre parcel that was owned by the same owner as the foreclosed 50, but he was able to sell that before he lost it too. It has about 15 acres high land. On the west is a large cattail marsh, then a lake. The cat tail marsh is technically a "navigable water way" on a map... but it has zero access, unless you've got wings or a huge air boat.

The 50 is good for nothing except hunting. A 650lb bear was killed on the property to the north back in 2009, and it's loaded with deer. It's accessibility issues means it's most valuble to the 3 adjoining property owners, so we figured we'd lo-ball bid on it  at the auction, use it for a deer hunting camp (we already had stands on it, and a cabin right there with another 16 acres). The other 2 property owners didn't look like they'd be bidders. One can't pay his taxes on what he's got, the other just bought the 30 to the south for $40K, and had plenty of opportunity at the 50, from the same owner in a package deal. Who else would want it?

The county had it assessed at $50K. We bid $25K. We lost. The nephew of the property owner to the north bid the full $50K, as he has access to it across his uncle's land. He paid $1K per acre for 50 acres of mosquitos & mud.... but he's a city guy, and there's critters to hunt on it. The two years the county owned it, it was open to public hunting, so we hunted it (nobody else knew it was county land...couldn't get to it anyway). I saw a lot of deer, but no big racks, and no antlerless tags are issued in this area.
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