I'm sure there is more wtf? stuff in it then the back side but...

A person may not possess someone else's deer in the field, even after registered, unless the tag holder is present....

Seems like they are trolling for fines for people...

I run with my bro and last year and he could have been fined like 17 times for driving around a piece and pushing it to me.

It's tagged leave us alone... and definitions of ' In the field' are very pliable.

I suppose 'in possession' includes standing next to, or near according to the DNR.

So how does that work if a hunter wants to donate their deer to another person or perhaps a food pantry?

Any person who kills a deer, etc may give the meat to another person once the deer is registered but they (person who killed it) MUST retain the registration tag until all of the meat is consumed.   29.347(2m)(b)

Please cite the source (and actual verbiage if possible)..  This does not even make sense...  What is the "back side"?  The 2014 changes have been published (FAQ style) and there is no mention of such pending change.  I am not aware of any relevant Statute change pending.  http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/documents/dtrrulechanges.pdf   Here is the "summary" pamphlet of 2013 "regulations" (all in FAQ style with no actual Statutes or Admin Code contained)..http://dnr.wi.gov/files/pdf/pubs/wm/wm0431.pdf  
Once tagged, the hunter may leave the deer unattended.   The deer may not be transported by anyone but the hunter which killed it until it is registered.  Once registered, the deer can be transported by anyone and the hunter need not be present with their deer.  (29.324, 29.347)

Sorry, haven't yet looked for a statute or admin rule, but it looks like there HAS been a change made.

Under the FAQ of the "new" regulations begining in 2014 it says this:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

What is the requirement for transporting registered deer?

Beginning this year a person may not possess another hunter's deer while afield, even if the deer is tagged and registered, without the tag holder being present, except that anyone can possess and transport another person's REGISTERED deer on a public highway for purposes of transportation to, and possession at, a dwelling or a business without the tag holder being present. A dwelling includes both permanent and temporary residences, and would include hunting cabins and camp sites. This allows a person to leave their registered deer at a hunting camp, meat processor or someone else's residence when they are not there.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

This is word for word from the tri-fold I got from Wal-Mart when buying a fishing license.  There was a stack of them next to the fishing regs.  When folded up it's on the back side.

Front side says: Wisconsin deer hunting rule changes for 2014 and a bunch of crap about deer trustee review process that made them decide to change a bunch of rules.

they had the loaded guns in vehicles taken  from them so they had to come up with a way to generate more revenue.

Read some of the Faq there on the link you posted.  Typical governmental idiocy.  lets make rules (that don't make sense even after going automated) for an automated system now a year or two ahead of time.

LOL. I like this one....

Can I leave my tagged deer hanging in camp or at someone else's dwelling and go home, to work, to school, etc.?

Until electronic registration is in place, a person may leave their legally tagged deer at another person's dwelling until they can come back and bring it to an in-person registration station. When electronic registration is in place, it will be necessary for a person who tags a deer to register that deer before they leave that deer in the possession of another person at someone else's dwelling (residence, camp site or cabin).



The way I read this is:  if I'm hunting in an area where there is no cell service available with which to do an electronic registration during gun season, I cannot hang my deer in camp and continue to group hunt, until I drive (with it along) to an area where there is cell service to enable registration. Nor can I drag it to my truck, and go back into the woods to help another drag out a dead deer. Wherever I go, it must go too... until I find a working phone.

WTF??? Do these fools realize that there's HUGE areas up north where cell phones just do not work? The majority of the northern half of the Nicolet National Forest between Eagle River & Florence is still a "dead zone" for cell service. Current rules give me until 5pm the day after gun season ends to register in person. New rules say the dead deer and I are joined at the hip until I register it with a telephone, even though there are no working telephones available near my deer camp.


The very next FAQ answers my question on do they realize there's huge areas without cell service. No they don't.

What is the purpose behind the new requirement for transporting registered deer?

This rule change was made in preparation for the launch of electronic registration. In the past, a person only had to accompany the deer they tagged only when it was being transported and before it was registered. But registration could only be done in-person at a DNR-designated registration station and a DNR registration tag had to be attached. When electronic registration is launched, it will be possible for a person to register their deer or a deer tagged with someone else's tag by phone while still in the field just moments after the deer is tagged. To continue to allow anyone to possess or transport someone else's registered deer when electronic registration is available would allow a person still out hunting to be in possession of, or dragging out a deer tagged with someone else's tag, without the tag holder being present. This would make enforcement of group hunting violations difficult if not impossible.



How about "moments after I load it up and drive with it 20 miles towards the nearest cell tower", you dimwits.

Start making noise with your legislators.

LOL. It gets better.

With the implementation of electronic registration, will the registration requirements for harvested deer change?

In 2014, since all hunters will register harvested deer in-person as usual, they will still be able to register both antlered and antlerless deer either in the Deer Management Unit (county) of kill or an adjacent unit. With the full implementation of electronic registration in 2015 or 2016, each antlerless deer killed during all deer hunting seasons must be registered before being transported from the unit of kill and each antlerled buck killed during all deer hunting seasons must be registered before being transported from the unit of kill or an adjacent unit.

- - - - - -
DMUs will be changed to County boundaries this year. So if I kill a antlerless deer in remote northern Forest County, for example near Alvin/Nelma (where there's no cell service), the "unit of kill" is Forest County. I cannot drive towards the nearest cell towers (in Vilas County) a few miles east of Eagle River or in Phelps to register it? Or even drive home to Eagle River? I must register it before leaving Forest County, according to this! So instead, to stay within the law, I must drive south towards Crandon until I find cell service within Forest County, then turn around and go back home. Makes sense to me.

I know that a game warden with a shred of common sense would allow an exception in the above example.... problem is finding one with common sense.

eta: not to mention this little tidbit... I know it may be difficult for the younger guys to imagine this, but not everybody owns a cellphone up north, especially the older people. I know plenty of old time deer hunters who do not have cellphones. They simply have no use for one, especially if they live where cell service is marginal or non existant. They be fucked now.

It is Admin Code changes.  They have not been officially published yet.  The admin code listed on line is still last year's.   The change is not just for deer.  It is bear also..    Here is the summary of actual changes we can look forward to...

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/wildlifehabitat/documents/DTR/FinalReport/FinalRule.pdf
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I'm reading that to say we can't possess deer or bear w/o registering it first out in the field.  Basically we have to find phone service or internets before we can transport the animal.

I hunt in Clark county in a dead zone... I have to drive almost 15 miles to get reliable service.

Oh and maybe the person who tagged it can't move away from the animal to register it?  Because if someone else is near it the tag holder must be too...

Like I said in my OP I'm sure there is more bs going on than the one 'rule change' from the pamphlet...

You don't have to register it before you transport it.  What this law will do is cut down on people shooting a deer and registering it with someone elses tag who is miles away.  I don't see it as a problem at all.

If you kill a doe in Clark County, you MUST register it before leaving Clark County. Better check the signal meter on your phone before pulling the trigger.

Another thing to consider now, is who your cell provider is, if you'll be hunting away from home. Certain companies have no service in the northwoods whatsoever, even if you're sitting under a cell tower. AFAIK,  Sprint & T-Mobile don't work up here anywhere. And pay phones are a long gone relic of the past. There's always the Trac Phone option.

You don't see a problem with having to register a deer with a cell phone that has no service?

No, but you must register antlerless in the county of kill, and you must not leave an unregistered deer unattended by the person who tagged it, until it's registered. What if there's no cell service in county of kill?

If cell service was 100% everywhere in WI, then I'd agree, no problem. But it's far from it... where I live it's 60% at BEST and that also depends on your cell carrier. Where I hunt in the Nicolet, about 6 miles east of Eagle River, ATT & U.S. Cellular phones work marginally, service is very spotty and inconsistant... get a heavy snow on the trees, it's a no-go. Verizon, Sprint, Cellcom are dead. Go a few more miles east or north, complete dead zone for ALL carriers. There's not a cell tower between Eagle River and Tipler in Florence County. That's 35-40  miles of no cell service in between, guarenteed regardless of phone type or carrier.  

Prior to this law, tagging was good enough until 5pm the day AFTER season ends. Now, registration is required immediately before you can leave the deer unattended anywhere. Here's just another completely plausible example of why it's a bad thing. You're hunting with your wife, or your child. One vehicle between you. Opening morning one of you shoots a buck. Typical behavior is tag, drag to truck, go back and hunt some more... opening day is not the day to be farting around registering deer, it's the best time to be in the woods, and "group" hunting is still perfectly legal. So, you tag it, grab your phone to register it, no cell service. Now what? You're done hunting pal, until you find cell service, or you drag that dead deer with you everywhere you go. It's not about transportation, you and that dead deer have become Siamese twins until you register it. Your whole hunting season now could hang on the reliability of electronics in your hunting area.

I was in favor of the change to phone-in registration before this, but now that I see how it'll be implemented, I'm dead-set against it. Maybe the DNR plans to install call-boxes in remote areas where cellphones don't work, or bring back payphones.

ETA: If I don't even own a cellphone (don't laugh, lots of people up north don't) now I've got to either buy one,  hunt with someone who has one, or drive home to my landline as soon as I shoot a deer.

I don't understand why this is such a problem. We are one of the last states to require in person registration for deer. Can't the WI DNR just look at what the other states do? Why do they have to make this so complicated?

Not county of kill, Unit of kill or any adjoining unit.  You MAY leave it unattended.    There is nothing in Statute or Admin Code which prohibits an unattended deer.  It can be unattended in the back of your vehicle which is locked up.  
The dumb thing is that nobody else may be "attending" (possess)  it while you are gone looking for cell phone reception..  


I see nothing prohibiting you from tagging the deer, leaving it unattended in your vehicle and driving another vehicle to where you have cell service.  You are allowed to transport the deer in your unit and into any adjoining unit before you register it.  That is a big area to find cell reception in.  You have until 5PM the following day to find such said reception.



Drag it to your truck, pull your truck out of the "field" onto the road, lock it up and then go back into the woods and help drag the other deer out.  

A lot of the "what if" scenarios are not going to be enforced by the wardens.  If you shoot a deer with your kid and you go get the truck there will not be a ticket issued.  If you shoot a deer, register it with your kids tag numbers while he's at home and call him to come out and get it you should be issued a ticket.  The deer zone will be the county, the numbered zones are going away, so you have to be in the county to call it in.  This may be a pain in some rare instances but right now it's a pain trying to find a registrations station open a lot of times.  There have been numerous times early season bow hunting when the weather is warm that I want to skin and cut up the deer the night I shoot it but by the time I get it out of the woods the gas station (that I have to drive way out of my way to get to) is closed.

In the field means in the woods basically.  Your cabin, garage, house, etc. are not in the field, nor is being on a road.

I think this is really much to do about nothing.  It's just a house keeping detail that needs to be done with the coming of call in registration.

How do you know about the part in red? Are you a Warden? How can you say what they will or will not enforce? It seems like whenever one of these types of topics come up you are always the apologist for the DNR and the Wardens, I am just wondering why?

 

Don't you mean uncased? You still can't have a loaded rifle in the vehicle, but unloaded and uncased is allowed now. But yeah, they are losing a lot of revenue from that.

They should eliminate the loaded rifle law now, too. If somebody really wants to road hunt, they just need to use a handgun now.

I wouldn't consider myself an appologist for the DNR, in fact I think I'm pretty tough on them, maybe not on here it may not seem that way.  The warden at the hearings last night said that there are many things that he could give out tickets for but they need to use common sense.  Much the same as a cop could pull you over for doing 26 in a 25 but none are going to.  

I read a lot of stuff on here about there being a law that you can't have a gun below the window line of your vehicle or that technically having your rifle in a case in your vehicle is considered concealed yet I've never herd of these laws ever being enforced.  This is pretty much the same, if your not trying to get away with something illegal the law will not be inforced.  

This really isn't a big deal.  I'm not standing up for the DNR but I am standing up for violating and poaching which without this law would be way to easy to do.

Unit of kill = county of kill, beginning this year. That's another change. The DMUs of the past are now just that... of the past. Read the reg.... you may not transport an antlerless deer into another "unit of kill" (ergo - county) until registered. An antlered deer may be legally transported to an adjacant unit/county prior to registration.



Two vehicles? Neat trick if you hunt alone or with a partner who doesn't have (a) 4 wheel drive (b) old enough for a drivers license. Antlerless deer cannot be transported into another unit of kill (county) until registered. That's the biggest problem I see.  



Define "road". Is it a marked and signed township, county, state maintained roadway as shown on official DOT county maps (where parking on the shoulder is normally prohibited).... or is a two-track logging trail (accessible only by a 4X4) a "road" also in the eyes of a DNR warden? What if the nearest "road" is miles away down a logging trail? These are not just hypothetical "what if" instances I'm dreaming up while sitting at my keyboard... these are the actual circumstances that I've been hunting in for 40+ years, as have many others who hunt up north.  The opening day scenario is not a "what if", it's far more common than not.  



As for the 5pm on the next day, I guess I missed that part. My understanding was it must be registered before it can be left unattended by the tag holder, period. But changing it from 5pm day after season ends to day after kill still sucks!The 5pm the next day doesn't mean much as it cannot be hung up at a cabin or deer camp until registered, that part is clear. If your hunting cabin or camp is also in the no cell service area, you must now drive to cell service to register before hanging in camp. LOL... in my area, even one of the former in-person registration stations is beyond cell service. To me, this only makes sense if the same deadline for registration is imposed as before... 5pm on the day AFTER season's end, so deer can be registered on the way home, as always.

And again, you're whole argument is based upon the fact that the hunter even owns a cell phone. I guess having a cell phone now is a mandate to hunt deer instead of a convenience, especially if you live more than two counties away from your hunting area and only have a landline at home... or in the case of an antlerless deer, you don't live in the same county you hunt in.

Explain how I go about registering a deer legally if I do not own a cellphone, and I hunt in a non-adjacant county to where I live. The only answer is buy, or borrow, a cell phone. I hate fucking govt mandates.  

And PLEASE don't tell me to trust in the "disgression" of DNR wardens. I much prefer to be protected under color of law.

How does the DNR get Revenue from enforcing a WI State Statute which has nothing to do with "hunting or fishing"?   Does the DNR get a portion of the forfeiture because they wrote the ticket?  

Do you have a cite for your premise?  Even 2013 Code allows for transporting antlerless deer into adjacent units for registration....

What about this change makes poaching more difficult than the current system of registering a deer by 5pm the day after season ends, vs 5pm the day after it's killed? All deer must be tagged immediately upon kill in either system. I have no beef with the method of registration, nor registration itself... it's the timeline imposed and the prohibition about hanging a deer in a deer camp prior to registration, when that (almost) immediate registration creates difficulties for those in no-cell areas, or those who do not own cellphones.

Also remember, that many other states (MI for rexample) have NO registration whatsoever. Tagging is good enough. The only purpose of registration is for the DNR to have an accurate method of tabulating deer kill. It's not an anti-poaching mechanism... that's what tags are supposed to do.

Again, there is nothing prohibiting the transportation of antlerless deer into the adjoining unit.  So long as nobody stays with the vehicles without you, you all can go back in and drag out the other deer.   You can even drive 100 feet down the trail if someone is going to stay with their vehicle just so that they are not near your deer if you are paranoid.  Nothing prohibits you leaving your tagged carcass unattended

Burner phones are almost free.   A small number of people having to drive a few miles in order to get cell reception is better than EVERYONE having to drive to a registration station.  Everyone in a hunting party could pile into a single vehicle and leave their deer at camp while they drive to get reception.  Only a single person in the party needs a phone.  I see this as progress.  This progress has been a long time coming..

You qouted the 2013 (old) regulation (just read the last dozen or so words...old timeline), not the new regs beginning in 2014 and fully implemented in 2015 or 16. AFAIK the new Admin rules are not published yet, and at this time, all we have to go on is what's in the FAQ. From the FAQ:

With the implementation of electronic registration, will the registration requirements for harvested deer change?

In 2014, since all hunters will register harvested deer in-person as usual, they will still be able to register both antlered and antlerless deer either in the Deer Management Unit (county) of kill or an adjacent unit. With the full implementation of electronic registration in 2015 or 2016, each antlerless deer killed during all deer hunting seasons must be registered before being transported from the unit of kill and each antlerled buck killed during all deer hunting seasons must be registered before being transported from the unit of kill or an adjacent unit.

(as it says above... unit of kill NOW is County of kill)

NO YOU CANNOT!!! That's my whole point! According to the FAQ below (again, all we have for now) You cannot hang a deer in a deer camp until it's registered!!

Can I leave my tagged deer hanging in camp or at someone else's dwelling and go home, to work, to school, etc.?

Until electronic registration is in place, a person may leave their legally tagged deer at another person's dwelling until they can come back and bring it to an in-person registration station. When electronic registration is in place, it will be necessary for a person who tags a deer to register that deer before they leave that deer in the possession of another person at someone else's dwelling (residence, camp site or cabin).




I agree with the phone-in registration being progress (REAL progress would be no registration), but I don't agree with the way they're implementing it, specifically the timeline and the assumption that everyone has access to a cell phone, and cellphones work everywhere. They need to get out of the office in the city and into the woods where modern technology is totally unreliable or even non-existant.

So long as the deer is not left "with" a person, you are good to go.  Ignore the FAQ and read the Admin Code.   It only prohibits someone from "possessing" the deer.  If it is in your vehicle away from the dwelling, what are they going to cite for?
If you are in such a barren place and you do not have 2 vehicles and you must to out of the allowed area to register an antlerless deer, leave your deer in the woods, jump in your car and register it.  Problem solved.   I have traveled to every corner of the State and cell phone reception was available in most areas and I did not have to travel far to get it if it was bad in an isolated area

Try driving across hwy 70 from Tipler to Eagle River. Or go up US 45 from Eagle River to Land O Lakes and then west on B toward Boulder Junction. I was up there just this morning to open a defective gun safe in a home on the Cisco Chain, and I checked my phone signal the whole way.... zero signal for a good 20 miles, once north of Conover and west on B. Very typical for this area... I should know, I run my business from my cell phone while I travel the northwoods. 60% coverage at the very most. Back in the analog phone days, with a roof mounted antenna plugged into my phone, I'd get maybe 80%. But that's a fact of life in the northwoods, not complaining... until the DNR mandates I have a workable phone to register a deer.


As I said, I like the change to phone/internet registration, vs the in-person system. What I don't like is the urgency to get the registration completed in the manner they're proposing (before 5pm next day, before hanging, etc). They're taking the burden of driving to a registration station from the majority, and turning it into the burden of finding cell service in the same county you kill an antlerless deer in, for a minority. Where's the "progress"? You're just shifting a burden from a larger group to a smaller group, when leaving the old timeline for registration in place would take the burden from everyone. That would be progress.

Here is the amended 2014+ Code...  Since "afield" is clearly not a highway per the definition, I see no prohibition of possession on the highway for purposes of registration in the adjoining unit.  We all know that FAQs are prone to errors....

Sorry, I don't like "picking nits" with the DNR. Especially the "gung ho" newbie type we have here now. MOFO would ticket his own mother for 1 too many bluegills. Even the retired wardens think he's a "fish-Nazi".

I'll wait until the 'new' code gets published, but I certainly don't like the looks of it judging by the FAQ.

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/wildlifehabitat/documents/DTR/FinalReport/FinalRule.pdf.....

You can still register them in person once the call in registration takes place.  Go ahead and drive 20 miles each way to register it if you like but I'm betting in that time you will get just fine phone coverage.  If you don't have a cell phone you can still use a land line once you get back to your house or cabin.  Again this is not a big deal.

All that's good, except the new timeline. I see no valid reason to advance it to day-after-kill, from day-after-season.

And I don't see how the change will hinder poachers. Group hunting is still legal, isn't it? If you've got 8 guys with 8 tags, you're allowed 8 dead deer, regardless of who shoots them, are you not? This implementation seems more aimed at making sure the guy who tags a deer is the guy who shot it. If that's the intent, then just outlaw group hunting. I thought the whole point of the change was to ease the burden of driving to an in-person registration station. Now it's driving to cell service for many of us, and likely days sooner than required before will now become necessary. Big help there. Leave it to the DNR to fuck up a good thing.  

No tagging is not an anti-poaching device but the way it will be with call in registration it opens itself up to a lot of violating.  Right now if you take your buddies back tag, shoot a deer and then get caught dragging it out you will be in trouble.  With phone in registraion you could take your buddies back tag, go hunting, call in the deer you killed and it would be registered.  With todays law since it's registered you could be in possesion of it, with the new law you need the tag owner there to be present.

Imagine this scenario if you could be in possesion of someone else's phone in registered deer?  I shoot a deer and have your tag in my pocket.  I put your tag on it, call it in to register it.  Then a warden sees me dragging the deer out and checks me.  I tell him that you shot the deer but had to leave.  The way the current law is there is nothing he could do about it.  With the new law the warden could write a ticket, which is a good thing.

You don't need to use a cell phone.  You can use the land line at your cabin, hotel, resort, or home.

You still don't get it. Instead of having up to 9 days to drive the 20 miles (or whatever) to register, we now have less than 36 hours to get it done. And don't you dare hang it up outside your hunting cabin if anyone else remains in camp, like we could always do before, until you do drive to register it, by whatever means. Lock it in the back of your truck... your buddies might steal it, or you might have to prove to a fish-Nazi that they don't have "possession" while you drive around looking for a cell tower in the same county you shot your doe in.  

What if I don't intend to go back to my home's landline (maybe hundreds of miles away), and stay in deer camp at the hunting cabin, in the middle of nowhere (no landline, no electricity, no internet, no cell service) for the whole 9 days? Have any of you guys ever hunted in a wilderness camp for the whole 9 days, or am I the only one? Or do you hunt in either a State Park or on grandpa's farm, and go home for a hot lunch and some internetting, maybe some TV, every day.  

It's not the means of registration that's important to this discussion, it's all the other bullshit (like shortening the timeline and the "possession by others before registered" shit) they've thrown in the mix. For what? How does that make things easier?

You're serious, aren't you. Writing a ticket for possessing a deer without the tag holder being present is a good thing, I agree. That's why It has always been illegal to possess an unregistered deer out in the woods with someone else's tag, without them present. It has nothing to do with the registration being changed to a phone-in system. Under the old in-person registration system, it was illegal to do as you described above also, but it was more difficult to register it , because anyone can phone in anyone else's tag, where the old system required the tag holder actually be present at time of registration. All they did was make sure the phone-in system doesn't make it easier to possess a deer registered to someone else's tag in the field. If you're going to make "instant" registration the law, you MUST do this to prevent misuse of tags.

I'm no newbie to witnessing the practice of using someone else's deer tag. I've seen plenty of guys buy a tag for their wife or girlfriend, even send them to hunter safety class to get them a license, but the women never leave the house... until hubby shoots "her" deer, hides it in the woods then goes home to get her, to come tag "her" deer, and they go to town together to register it. If you've ever seen a woman in pajamas, hair curlers, a blaze parka 3 sizes too big, and wearing some snowmobiling  "moonboots", trudging through the woods behind her hubby, that's what they're up to, I guarentee it.

Changing the system to  phone -in actually makes it easier for them... now he doesn't need to drag her AND the deer to the registration station, they can go directly home and register it from there. Either system, the person who holds the tag must accompany the deer in the field. This changes nothing in that regard.

What it does change, is I can no longer hang my deer bearing my tag at a relative's hunting cabin, or in his garage away from the yotes, until after I register it. Before the change I could, as long as I registered it by the day after season ends.

I just read this thread and I saw "phone/internet registration."  I am on my iPhone right now but I can't call you with it.  Sometimes if I am outside, with the leaves off the trees during winter voice will work for a rare moment but text and data always work.  I have to drive to known locations to catch a strong enough voice signal.

This craze with catching every Violator is a bit OCD (love that by the way, sounds like a deer rapist.  Never heard that term before living here).  If the deer is tagged and in camp, it's like crossing home plate, score 1 deer.

Now, any advice for calling Turkey in a snow storm tomorrow?  Turkmagedon is coming tonight.

No advice on how to call in a snowstorm (I just wait til after the storm to try any set-ups), but I will scout around and use the snow for tracking purposes to find out where they've been moving.

My tag is next week. I got my turkey decoys out over the last weekend and cleaned them up, got them ready for use. I've got a Tom, a Jake, and 3 hens. Then it hit me... they all have plastic stakes and the ground is still frozen solid, making the stakes (and decoys) useless. I guess I'll just stick them in a snowbank.

Yeah, this afternoon on the way home from work I slowed down to eyeball any tracks in the snow.  I am off Friday so I may just start walking the edges and do some calling.  Someone was out this morning early, where I saw a huge Tom the other day.  He had some time to hunt before the snow started.  Right now I am working 6 to 2 so I have afternoons for outdoor fun.

I will have my AR "Handgun" with me this year... Guarantee it will be loaded all the time.