I am working on building a new members only shooting club so I joined this forum in hopes to learn from the real shooters what is wanted in a club. I want to be built for action shooting mostly that to me is 2&3 gun and combat pistol shooting. I want to have different areas setup so that people can actually walk through the targets like they do in real competition.

I shoot now at a lot of different places but none of them fit my needs and I love sport shooting and have for a while now just probably not at the level of most of you. So please tell me what you like in your club and practice area as well as any fun competition ideas that you might have. Currently we have the basic shooting setups on the event road map and a few fun ones like our little tykes shoot out that will be for the younger kids and the calipers and targets will be set to their line of sight and skill level, and we are planning a 5 stage shotgun shoot out once I get more information from the range in Virginia that does this one that is said to be a lot of fun.

What kind of events do you enjoy? Any specifics you can give me and if it is a fun one that we use we will name it after the club that gave us the idea.
In a dream world what would your training environment look like? Anything from cars as walls, to motion timers so that you can run the stages alone.

If there are already threads like this, my apologies I am new obviously and just wanting to do this the right way.

Not exactly sure where you are going but I'll throw out some leads.
You might look at all the other local matches to see what's going on and what people like on the front range.
You can try:
http://www.ecouspsa.com/
https://www.ar-15.co/forums/114-Shooting-Sports-and-Events
As for shotgun. PPGC will be having their 2nd annual shotgun match with monthly matches once it warms up. See:
http://www.pikespeakgunclub.org/PP___Pikes_Peak_Gun_Club.html

Are you doing an outdoor range with more sophisticated bullet traps vs standard dirt berms?

Good luck

Thanks and I have seen the setup to most standard sport shooting, what I am wanting is have you ever been to an event that was just fun. Example would be like the stuff they do on top shot, shooting out of moving cars and stuff, just for example. Or another one is have cards setup and you shoot to see who made the best hand, just fun stuff.

For the training part of it, what are some of the other location not giving you? My example of this would be a step by step area that would teach the new guys just the basic drills and areas that they should be doing something. This would allow a new shooter to practice and know that what they are practicing will be helpful to them in a real match. Have a poster that shows the area setup  


Yes, for our main stand and shoot area we are going to have the crumb rubber bullet traps. We are also planning on having areas that you can actually walk through the targets as well not just stand and shoot. There will also be a main area setup with seating and everything for the big events.

You check ins coverage for this? Outside basic ranges and comps. Getting behind the wheel . shooting from might be a tad higher than normal range coverage.

Thanks for the heads up, I have insurance on both the range/accidental and the land/business already to go and is built into the business plan and 3 year financials.

I am also just looking into ideas right now, if the ideas do not work out then we will have new ones that do.

You won't be able to run sanctioned matches that are only open to your club's members under the bylaws of USPSA - and I'm guessing IDPA would likewise require you to open attendance to their members.

Thanks, we are planning on that and will run matches open to the public and also just sponsor people that want to go into other matches once we feel we need to do that. We will have several times that we open up to people that want that type of competition and have the sanctioned events. We are also wanting to have more then just those competitions though and will be having members only competitions that may be similar to those but not sanctioned. These could be anything like a beginner competition where only novice or never shot in competition can get into to a pyramid setup where it is a point match leading down to 1 winner.

All that stuff aside, what are some other ideas for shooting events?
What about one that is like an old game of trick shot, like in pool played like a game of horse.

___________________________________________________________________________
Ty Schubarth - Iron Hill
http://ironhillgc.com
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/iron-hill/x/9421801

Thanks for the nice greeting!

We are hopeful we can appeal to the sport shooter and have a great place where people can come out and have a whole bunch of fun.

Whereabouts are you thinking of doing this?  
I wonder how many more gun ranges the Springs can take.  Whistling Pines opened another store over near Garden of the Gods and Centennial, their other store out by hwy 24 and Marksheffel.  Magnum Shooting Center opened up near Northgate.  Huh, looking at their website they're open the public, not members only as with WPGC.  Anyway, there's also Dragon Man's east of town, and the Cheyenne Mountain Shooting Complex.  And of course, there's the national forest for those so inclined.  Don't get me wrong, I hope things work and lots of people go shooting.  

We are going north of Colorado Springs into Douglas county to give the Castle Rock and south Denver families someplace to go. Land has not be purchased yet and we are working with USDA agricultural and Douglas County zoning to find the best location.

I hear what you are saying and I have shot at almost all of those places except the indoor ranges and have nothing bad to say about any of them. I just want my own place where I can do things my way and be more for the competition shooter that I feel gets kinda of left out at some ranges. I hate the public lands thing mainly because of the trash and crazy crap that goes on up there. One of the open areas was recently shut down because of what was done to the area and if the groups pushing keep going Rampart Range is next. Also some of the public lands are shut down no matter how nice of a day it is, I think if you want to shoot in 20 degree or lower weather then have at it, I love extreme weather drills keeps you sharp.

I do not want to get to sales pitchy cause I am still the new guy here, but we are going to be a limited number of members outdoor range that has setups for families and sport shooters. We want a small group of people that love shooting and want to have a lot of fun and a safe place to do it. Thanks for wishing us luck we need it right now.

I'm in castle rock so this sounds very interesting to me. I have also always thought that an "interactive" range would be very fun! I wish you the best and can't wait to see it open. Also, if you ever need anything just im me!

Links removed to stay within the rules

I would welcome you to join us then, we need members to make this happen.


What are some events that you always wanted to get into?

Moving targets would be a real treat, be it computer controlled, or even a simple pully system. both single and multiple targets. its a whole lot of fun shooting at multiple advancing targets. It's only paper, but gives quite a rush. Couple that with malfunctions, planned or otherwise, and you see people get real flustered real quick.

For the shooting from car aspect, I've seen a car door mounted to a seat that was mounted To wheels. That whole assembly was then set on a section of rail then pushed down the rail. Gives the general feel without risking someone's door, or having someone loose control and kill everybody.

Those are great idea's.

We might only be able to have the moving targets in 1 section but could look at putting them on a rail or some sort of system.

The car door idea sounds cool and we would have to look into that as well, at least of maybe an event if not up all the time.

Thanks for the thoughts!

Was working on the new pitch video last night and had a new idea, how about an old timer 3 gun. You would have to use a revolver hand gun, a lever action rifle, and a time period shot gun. Just might be a lot of fun as a different take on a modern event.

Not really a new idea.  In fact it has been happening for quite a while in single action/cowboy shooting.



I would love to see another shooting range on the Front Range and hope you can make it work. I wish you the best of luck, but please accept some constructive criticism offered in that light.

Your website and Indiegogo page are frankly unprofessional and do not offer me information anywhere near the level of detail I would need before I would decide to contribute.

Obvious errors in grammar like "active your membership today", is probably the worst way to start.  (Buying a ARFCOM team membership would be a good way to start.)

Much of the verbiage of your website, Indiegogo page and videos makes it sound like you are already in operation.  When in fact you have not even purchased land, much less received the requisite approvals from local government.

Nor have you included the cost of land in your "budget".  I think you are drastically underestimating the expense of 35 acres in your chosen area not to mention any earth moving that would most likely be necessary.  I would also question if 35 acres would be enough, or given its location, whether it could remain there for any length of time given how quickly the area is being developed.

I can not for the life of me understand what my membership fee goes toward, nor what time frame, if any, there is for its fulfillment.

"The total cost for this project will be estimated above $300,000 start-up. Once the goal is reached then the funding will be available and the project will move forward with milestones and road-maps clearly defined and will be posted for review".  This statement makes no sense.

"Starting something from nothing is very hard now days and asking others for help seems to be the only way to make this happen".  This statement is absurd and pity is no way to woo investors.

Since there is no mention of your own investment, it seems as though you are relying entirely on crowd sourcing for funding.  If you do not have any skin in the game, why on earth would I want to?

IMO you kind of go off the reservation talking about "trees are not a target they are a living organism", "the lead and steel in bullets destroys the environment" and "loopholes".

You are also assumedly using video that is most likely copyrighted, which if true does not promote an air of trust with an investor.

At the minimum, these examples are uninspiring or confusing but they could also be viewed by some as being deceptive or even fraudulent.

Sounds like Cowboy Action and Wild Bunch Shooting, or even Zoot Shooters matches.

I would suggest doing some more research on competitive shooting before you build a range to cater to competitive shooting.

Thank you for your comments and we will be working on the items that you mentioned and try to bring them up to a better standard.

The cowboy action thing is just another idea to get people thinking about it is all. I understand that the idea is not new, but to some people that have never had the exposure to the idea it is. Maybe a person has a bunch of old guns that were passed to them and they would like to have some fun shooting them. There maybe a lot of ranges that offer this around us but I do not hear about them and just want people to tell me some of the ideas that they enjoy doing.

The website and Indiegog campaign are written that way so that the proposed member can picture it in their head and feel that they belong to something. This is an old sales tack tick much like a car dealer puts keys in your hand. If you see it as not legitimate or in bad taste I do apologize as I do try to be very truthful about everything that we are doing and at no point try and do anything that is considered shady or bad dealing, just as I have on this board with staying in the rules.

We do not have the land yet, but we are already working with Douglas County zoning to make sure that once the land is found that we will have all of our paper work ready. We also do have our market area defined and are working hard to make sure that the only thing we are waiting on is the first investment.

We are working on the text and will have clearer numbers and information available. They will all be forecast numbers but will give a better estimate and bring a better picture of our numbers to people that want to know them. We are estimating for the cost of land but it is not clearly defined for you to see. As stated we will defiantly be working on this so that we can show you more of our financial break down and how we plan on making this all work. I have removed this section for now because of how muddy it is, we will have it all back up quickly though.

My own investment, this one is hard for me because I have put everything I have into this and ready to put everything I have for the 30 years to make it happen. I will not break down how much of my own capital I have invested in this nor the time and effort that I have put into it. This is my dream and I would not want anyone to feel that I am asking them to ever match what I do for my dream. I understand what you are looking for in this and you are trying to make sure I am not just getting a free ride and if it does not work out then I am not out anything, this part all I can do is tell you I am invested in this with every dime I have, every hour I breath. Every small business is bound to fail more then built to succeed, but this one will be no different then my guns and someone will have to pull it out of my cold dead hands before I quit trying to make it happen.

When I talk about the environment and the destruction that is done by target shooting on public lands it seems to hit a nerve with gun owners because we are all under the microscope all the time. We are all used to having to stand up to people and defend our self all the time. I went the environmental route because that does effect me and the trash and junk that is left behind is a terrible scene. I thought more people would fee the same about that message but have found that the line is so deep now days with all the sides that everyone has that this will never happen if I stay that course. Iron Hill will still be environmentally focused but I will not be pressing that so hard and just build it behind the scenes the right way.

The video was approved and given to me by 3 Gun Nation as were all the other videos on YouTube channel and Facebook. I have also been notifying them of all my work and sending everything to my contact at that office. There is also a screen at the end that clearly states where the music and video came from. There is absolutely nothing deceptive or fraudulent about anything that was posted.

Again I do thank you for the comments and conversation.

New members are only allowed 2000 charicters

We have a lot of ideas that are already done and have been for a long time, just wanting to get ideas going.

Thank you for your comments and conversation.

On the website it says you are trying to get $100 donation from anyone who wants to join until you are up to $300k, that would take awhile. And It doesn't say anything about how much the fees will be after startup.

We are going to be working on the website today and will hopefully have all the correction that are needed found today. Thank you for bringing that to our attention.
At first we were going to try and raise all the capital through crowdfunding but did the numbers and found that the goal would be much to high.

+1 on this.

If there is any interest at all in this and any of you want to see it happen then now is the time to act. We need members to make this a go. Any money put in right now is fully refunded if we do not reach our goal, and we will also keep your name active so if this way does not work and we do it another way you will be notified first before the launch to the public.

In response to the issues that you both pointed out the website has been redone, and we are working with a professional CFO. Please know that I do appreciate all your comments and I am working hard to make sure that you and any other potential members remarks are noted and action is taken when needed. We have posted the membership amounts on both the website and the campaign page in hopes to clarify any confusion.
We are working out the numbers and have a 3 year plan with P&L statement as well as start-up expenses estimates, and the CFO is reviewing all that information to be sure it is correct and within reason.


Moving forward, since I have been told that all my ideas have been done is there any events that anyone has seen or entered that was fun and also something that pushed them harder then they thought the event was going to?

Is there anything like a Spartan Race + Shooting competition?

So no new ideas, what do you want out of your gun range then?

Is there not enough competitor shooters in the area?

Depending on price... I could be in too. Im in littleton but would drive 45 minutes for a good range like that. Had one in Oregon that my friend was a member of and memberships were so cheap compared to out here in CO.

Funny thing is a friend and I were tossing around the same idea a couple weeks ago. How much land are you looking at getting? What kind of long range are you going to have set up?

I cannot post links as a moderator has advised me not to do that because it is to much advertising and I like this community and want to remain a part of it. I have sent you a PM though with information on us.

In response to your post we will have 3 different plans available all very comparable to what is out there. Each annual access will be between $100 - $200 and a one time $100 activation fee. Also note that our group fee for $200 annual access can be friends and family and do not have to reside in the same house hold. The only other fees will be for events or sanctioned competitions, not for range use. We will even have targets for you past 50 yard that will be similar if not the same as Action Targets so that you do not even have to bring those. So load up your friends and family and come enjoy the day on the range as it should be.

We are looking at a minimum of 35+ acres to start with and have the ability to go up to 100+ in the area very quickly with the parcel we are currently reviewing. The main issue in Colorado is water and that will decide a lot of the land areas for us as we need to work with our agriculture neighbors.

At start up we will open with a 200 yard pre-measured range with bullet trap and benches for the stand and shoot area. There are plans to go a little longer but we will max out at 500 yards and that range will be after we have several other phases complete.

In Oregon did you compete in any of the club activities?
Do you remember any fun ones that the club had?

I didnt get a chance to join in the competitions but they had lots of 2 and 3 gun comps that I would have had I not moved out here. The place was Tri-County Gun Club in Sherwood OR. My friend met Iain Harrison at one of the comps (Was the winner of season 1 Top Shot). Their long range was really nice and getting in the place was a breeze. Drive up to the gate, badge in... park where you want to shoot (long range or short bunkers for cowboy, staged etc) or the indoor range. Outdoor range didnt have officers but it was very strict with how you behave and you were not allowed on the range or to shoot at/near wildlife (as there was at times). Membership was cheap and around $100 if I recall... which when I had to spend $400 out at Blucore for an Indoor only, I was a bit suprised. I do like Blucore though but will be looking to swap to yours once you get off the ground for sure. I may be indigogoing (is that even a word? ha!) next month just to help unless things go wildly south.

Will you be offering any other services at your range? FFL transfers, sales, smithing, tactical driving, CCW, Tactical Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun, etc?

We seem like we would be right where you would want to be, and even hitting the price point and relaxed atmosphere. We will have a lot of surveillance equipment, waivers, and of course range rules but for the most case everyday will be much like that what you described. You will have an entrance badge that lets you in and also allows access to the different areas, this will also record the movements for added security of the range. We will attempt to have a safe place but also allow you to enjoy the range.

Well we do hope nothing goes South as we need all the members we can get right now and look forward to you joining with us. We are doing the Indiegogo thing to not only get our start-up money but to also see if there is a need for this style of range. If the goal is not met then all the money is returned to you. We are hopeful though and have received a lot of great people saying they want in, just waiting to see if it gets more traction first.

** New members are only allowed 2000 characters

Funny you should ask about that, I am meeting with Colorado Carry and we are going to be talking about what we might be able to offer at the range and we will see how that works out. We are also going to have guest instructors come out and do things with our members that we see useful as most pro's or even just very well trained people are all over the place and we have some great people in mind. We will be focused on a lot of the tactical training with the different small arms as well as some different useful skills, never know when you might have to rub 2 sticks together to win a bar bet.

Transfers and sales of any kind are down the road for us as we are a members first kind of place we would want to make sure that our members had what they need but not pushed to only use us. There are already a lot of great store fronts in the area and we would almost rather partner with a few of them to give our members great pricing then try and get into that arena with them. Once we are up and going you never know, Iron Hill logo on the side of an AR sound pretty cool to me.

So what does everyone think about this idea of opening this type of range?
Is there any interest in opening a competition/combat style range or should I just fall back to the standard range?

You all are my target audience and I am using the crowdfunding thing to gauge if there is a demand for this or not. From what I am seeing there is not much of an interest for this type of range or maybe just a fear of buying into an idea. I have tried to be as open as I can and listen to every person that has posted up with comments. Please tell me if it is a dumb idea so that I can push forward  on something that is wanted. All honesty is appreciated and I will not get hurt feelings or anything like that. I also completely understand that putting your money up for just a dream with no real land yet is probably my biggest hurdle, I thought by offering it out there first would be the better play cause if it did not work the money is given back to you but I could gauge the interest then. This forum has been the best yet in telling me real opinions as to what is needed and I still need your help in making this happen.

I have been working with Carry On Colorado and we have a great plan on classes and what the instructors need from a range. We are also working with a local indoor range and we start talks with them the end of this week so we can offer members the option of both ranges.

What would make you sign up today to become a member?

The reason nobody is putting up money for this is you arent offering something we cant get elsewhere.

To get people to sign up you need to offer a facility that is better than those that currently exist. Better in terms of the facility, not a gimmick of being able to shoot a certain kind of match there. Build a range with rifle out to 1000, some 50 yard deep pistol berms, some skeet fields, and five stand and you'll have a good start.  Then allow members to come use the place for the type of shooting they want (including FA) and allow he members to start running matches.

Problem is i dont see how you do the above and make money, there is a reason almost every range is some sort of a non profit entity.

Knowing what your real, not screen name is.  You sound like a good salesman. However so did another Crowd Funding/ FB  gun owner who never delivered a product as promised even with a contract the owner / ffl wrote up to make sure everything was up front. Matter of fact your sales pitch sounds just like his.    AND NO i'm not talking about Shadow Ops.

I agree with what was previously posted. I do like the "come when you want" mentality... but its gotta be worth it. Long range 1000m+ with targets at 25,50,75,100 and every 100 after. Pistol range, walkthrough tactical areas, skeet, etc would be worth it unless it was an hour to get there. At that point, the distance only makes it worthwhile for those once in a while things that I couldnt do at a local range (anything over 100m) or in the forest.

Being through indigogo or whatever doesnt protect much as what it seems. It only allows for funding levels and hopes that your fulfil your promise. If you are incorporated I am sure you can get away with taking the money and walking with little recourse...but im not a lawyer so I have no idea, just speculation. Having some kind of actual reciept for something or a contract drawn up that people can "invest" in would be more fitting honestly in my eyes. At least for the $100+ ranges.

I know there are a lot of people out there making a living in the crwodfunding world and there are going to always be those that take advantage of the system.

My real name is Ty Schubarth and I am from Aurora Colorado, lived on Quincy reservoir growing up and fished there almost everyday I could or when they stocked it. I then lived in Utah for some time on a farm just outside of Cleveland Utah, and got my teenage ass handed to me, but learned the power of hard work and how to get things done. After that I lived in Las Vegas for a long time and met my wife and had 2 daughters there. When the housing market crashed and all the homes in our area were turning into crack houses we left the home we built and came back to Colorado Springs, where my sister lived and have loved it ever since. That is the cliff notes of my life and who I am, just an average guy trying to get my dream going. I do not have anyone rich in my family to support my dream and I am a guy working a job that chokes the life out of me everyday and waiting for the day that I can build a place that I can be proud of.

I am by no means a salesman, but thank you for the compliment, I think.

I setup the campaign in the safest way I could for everyone that supported it. I have it set to fixed funding, that means I do not get a dime unless the campaign reaches it's goal to 100%. I have no idea about other people that have tried this as this is my first time doing something this big for myself. I have gone through SBA and Colorado Lending and explored the several ways that they tell you to start a small business. I have an SBA business plan and 3 year financial estimates, I also have a complete SWOT assessment and several other items that I have been told I have to have to make this a success. Even in the first class at the SBA the instructor tells you to call your rich uncle, or as he did get a loan from a father in law, I do not have that opportunity.

I have no guarantee that this will work and cannot even for sure tell you that I will not run into any hurdles along the way that stop me in my tracks. I can tell you that I am ready to go with this with everything I have to make this a success and give us all a great place to shoot. If anyone wants to ever meet me in person I have no issue with that at all and love to talk about my dream as much as I can.

Stretching out that far right at the start would be a financial disaster. We have to keep it small to start to get up and going and then build on as we go. Having a range that only goes out 200 yards with a rubber bullet trap and fire safe sprinkler systems on it with several bench and stand position stalls should give us a good start and then we can work on stretching out further in the future when the members are ready for that.

Indiegogo is setup that I do not reach my goal all the money is returned and I never actually have it until the goal is reached. After the campaign does hit its goal, all the money is handed to an account that is in the Iron Hill llc. name, and yes at this point I could take it all and do nothing more with it then have a great vacation and payoff all my bills. Or I could stick to my word and show keep updating all the people that gave to the dream detailed accounts of what I am doing and what is being spent. I also hear what you are saying about this and have been trying to think of a way that everyone that gives receives some kind of way to get their money back if it does not work, but the whole point to this is I have to spend the money.

We are going to start looking for investors at over $25,000 and give returns on the capital, but that plan is not completed yet because I never liked the idea of investors coming in. I believe then it becomes all about the money and the members receive a lower grade of service because we have to get the investor the money back. I also know when to ask for help and never let my pride kill my dream, so we are working on the investor angle and will have that going soon.

Thanks again for all the comments and great conversation on this site, it is truly a great forum here and I am very happy that I found it. I appreciate every comment you guys have given me and thank you for your time.

I'm a Tri-County member too (from western OR, currently going to Mines) and was also looking for something similar in price with similar facilities out here. The Springs is a little far for me though.

How do you plan to have limited membership, and membership funding at the same time? If you reach your max membership level, but do not reach your funding goal, what will you do then?

If we reach our max membership we will have over our goal as well as several companies that are currently watching our campaign to see if they want to put any money into it. We are going to have a maximum membership of 1500, asking for the activation fee only right now that gives use $150,000 and that is way over our goal and opening numbers of capital needed at $125,000. There are also 3 companies that I have been talking to as well as others that I do not have a definite yes on that would jump in this game too if they see the number of memberships sold and the area public call out to open something like this. I have also talked to several event organizations that are not currently in our area that have said that they will absolutely help if they see memberships and true support in our area, that they have wanted into for sometime now.

With my financial plan in place I need an over estimated $118, 986 to open the doors, the $125,000 is put there as a safety to make sure there is money that will be available so we have less chance to fail. No big organizations or any companies want to back a start-up that is not deemed needed by the public. Once we have memberships sold then I am sure that companies will be begging to come in with us as this is going to be something this area truly needs and all of us are wanting.

Thank you for addressing my questions.

Any more ideas, questions, remarks, or anything about opening a competition style shooting range.

I know handing over your hard earned money to a dream with no guarantees is hard, but standing with someone and seeing their dream become a reality is easy for anyone to do and what we all want to do in some form or another. This is something all of us can gain from as it is a whole different type of area that not only opens doors to things that you may not currently have access to, but also gives you a place to build on real skills and enjoy the sport like no place else. We all need a place that supports our hobbies and allows the industry to grow so that more people are comfortable with the sport. The more shooting ranges and areas that give the public knowledge and show that yes we own guns, and we train with them so that they are safe and we know what we are doing with them.

I live in the Rockrimmon area.  I'm a member at WPGC and formerly a member at PWSC.  I would definitely join an outdoor range in your proposed area.  


As a shooting sport addict, I really like USPSA.  Steel Challenge is fun here and there but it's primarily USPSA for me.  I've never shot IDPA nor do I ever plan to.  3 gun looks like a lot of fun but I just don't have the time or money for all of the additional accessories.  




I think that in order to pull off a successful range like you envision would require many 50yd pistol bays/berms.  At least 12 bays.  This would allow the range to host Level II and above matches.  




As a member, I would want rifle ranges as well.  An obligatory 100yd range and also one as long as possible.  The further the better.  




I would definitely join but I'm not going to put down any money pre-open.  I've been burned once before on a gun range that never materialized.


 

I agree that not being open for people to come see us is our true issue right now. I am going to start pursuing different ways to open our doors through the regular systems. We are not quitting just going the more traditional route.

I still do want to know about different shooting events or training that you all have done and the different types of things that you would want in a range.