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Posted: 6/13/2017 3:46:54 PM EDT
[#1]
Form 4473
Here is the form you fill out, on page 5 it explains question 16. It is not a pistol, it is an other, being an other you have to be 21+ to buy it, but it is not subject to pistol laws. |
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Posted: 6/13/2017 6:33:26 PM EDT
[#2]
A receiver is a receiver and nothing more. The shop does not know what the laws are. Best suggestion is to stay away after you get the proceed.
Did they make you fill out the state pistol transfer application form? Also, which shop? |
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Posted: 6/13/2017 7:07:04 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also, which shop? let us know where not to shop. |
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Posted: 6/13/2017 8:03:52 PM EDT
[#4]
It transfers as other; there is no pistol transfer application for it.
He's doing it wrong. |
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Posted: 6/14/2017 12:29:33 AM EDT
[#5]
That FFL is an idiot........
I wonder what other laws, rules and regs he's fucking up on..... |
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Posted: 6/14/2017 12:49:36 AM EDT
[#6]
Your FFL does not know what he is talking about, it is "Other" it is not configured into a gun as of yet, so there is no holding period on it, you should be able to walk out the door after you get a proceed from the FBI.
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Posted: 6/14/2017 3:27:06 AM EDT
[#7]
In for the name and shame!
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Posted: 6/14/2017 11:05:35 AM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 6/14/2017 10:23:40 PM EDT
[#9]
I'm going in tomorrow to see if I can resolve the issue. ill let you all know who it is once I've got my lower.
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Posted: 6/15/2017 12:51:27 AM EDT
[#10]
Receiver is a receiver. Would have allowed you to take your lower home but I would have mentioned that if you plan to make a pistol, I would recommend filling out the pistol transfer form to have paperwork on it.
Side note, I recommend getting your CPL renewal.. Less of a hassle. Question, did they do a background check or did they send the paperwork (4473 and pistol transfer form) to the police? If police then it does take time but that should only be done if filing out the pistol transfer form. Sounds more like he doesn't know what they are doing. The 15 day is bs.. You don't have to wait that long legally |
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Posted: 6/15/2017 1:29:33 AM EDT
[#11]
Who is the idiot FFL??
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Posted: 6/15/2017 2:30:13 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Receiver is a receiver. Would have allowed you to take your lower home but I would have mentioned that if you plan to make a pistol, I would recommend filling out the pistol transfer form to have paperwork on it. Side note, I recommend getting your CPL renewal.. Less of a hassle. Question, did they do a background check or did they send the paperwork (4473 and pistol transfer form) to the police? If police then it does take time but that should only be done if filing out the pistol transfer form. Sounds more like he doesn't know what they are doing. The 15 day is bs.. You don't have to wait that long legally He did mention sending in to LE. I was a bit confused as I've never heard of that happening. I filled out the 4473 on the computer. I've never done that befor either, so was a little confused when he said that it'll be a few days before they hear back. |
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Posted: 6/15/2017 4:42:49 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Receiver is a receiver. Would have allowed you to take your lower home but I would have mentioned that if you plan to make a pistol, I would recommend filling out the pistol transfer form to have paperwork on it. Side note, I recommend getting your CPL renewal.. Less of a hassle. Question, did they do a background check or did they send the paperwork (4473 and pistol transfer form) to the police? If police then it does take time but that should only be done if filing out the pistol transfer form. Sounds more like he doesn't know what they are doing. The 15 day is bs.. You don't have to wait that long legally |
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Posted: 6/15/2017 9:44:32 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WA state removed "Frame" as a selection on the Pistol Transfer Application form years ago. A receiver is a receiver and nothing more. You can't submit a pistol transfer application form on an AR lower as it does not fit the description of either a pistol or a revolver. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Receiver is a receiver. Would have allowed you to take your lower home but I would have mentioned that if you plan to make a pistol, I would recommend filling out the pistol transfer form to have paperwork on it. Side note, I recommend getting your CPL renewal.. Less of a hassle. Question, did they do a background check or did they send the paperwork (4473 and pistol transfer form) to the police? If police then it does take time but that should only be done if filing out the pistol transfer form. Sounds more like he doesn't know what they are doing. The 15 day is bs.. You don't have to wait that long legally For those who would like to avoid this frustration, the shop is norpoint in Arlington. Trying to reason further with any of the staff there was like talking to a brick wall. I gave up quickly as I would have been a fool to peruse further. I gathered my things and left. This begs the question: if they are doing to it correctly, did they fuck up by not enforcing the 10 business day waiting period? One would think that if they did not have to enforce the wait then there is no reason to do a pistol transfer. But the brick walls at the counter didn't see it that way. By the same reasoning, I should be able to slap a pistol tube and 10.5" barrel and be in the clear, but they didn't see it that way either...... |
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Posted: 6/16/2017 12:36:00 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's interesting. I picked up the lower today and looked at the pistol transfer form and it did have a section for frame. I'm guessing they're using old forms... either way, I asked again why hey had to to that (different counter guy) and he held firm that the state required it since it could be made a pistol. For those who would like to avoid this frustration, the shop is norpoint in Arlington. http://www.dol.wa.gov/forms/652001.pdf You will notice in the drop down that only "Pistol" and "Revolver" are choices. Sounds like the entire shop is full of idiots that don't know what the hell they are doing...... 
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Posted: 6/16/2017 2:29:05 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's interesting. I picked up the lower today and looked at the pistol transfer form and it did have a section for frame. I'm guessing they're using old forms... either way, I asked again why hey had to to that (different counter guy) and he held firm that the state required it since it could be made a pistol. For those who would like to avoid this frustration, the shop is norpoint in Arlington. Trying to reason further with any of the staff there was like talking to a brick wall. I gave up quickly as I would have been a fool to peruse further. I gathered my things and left. This begs the question: if they are doing to it correctly, did they fuck up by not enforcing the 10 business day waiting period? One would think that if they did not have to enforce the wait then there is no reason to do a pistol transfer. But the brick walls at the counter didn't see it that way. By the same reasoning, I should be able to slap a pistol tube and 10.5" barrel and be in the clear, but they didn't see it that way either...... As for the PTF. I remember a long time ago that I contacted the WA DOL about frames and filling out the Pistol Transfer forms, they said they required it.. though the guy sounded unsure in his voice. Just the mentioning the frame can be built into a pistol probably caused him to side with the needing to do the form. Also they should be using the new updated forms.. which was updated last year. If not they are out of compliance. |
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Posted: 6/16/2017 6:18:08 PM EDT
[#17]
They are not using the new forms?
Hell the BATF notified all of us FFL's of the new forms when they were issued! I would stay VERY. VERY far away from that FFL in the future.
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Posted: 6/18/2017 10:35:02 PM EDT
[#18]
Skagit Arms tried to pull this stunt on me...I left it sitting on their counter.
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Posted: 6/18/2017 11:42:37 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Skagit Arms tried to pull this stunt on me...I left it sitting on their counter. Walked in. Filled out 4473. Paid. Walked out with lower. It took 15 minuets, and that was because I was browsing the store... |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 6:16:54 PM EDT
[#20]
I tired of Norpoint some time ago, and their overly aggressive rules and attitude. I blame it on the Lawyers that own/run the place. Sad, I've been a member there for as long as that building has been there, through all the different owners. Now I'm a member at Skagit
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Posted: 6/19/2017 6:57:14 PM EDT
[#21]
Last year I ordered 5 strip lowers online and called the FFL I normally use to let them know they were on the way. He asked if I was going to be registering them as rifles or pistols, told him there was no such thing they are all receivers. We went back and forth a couple times and I let him win and figured I'll just have to walk him through it when I pick them up.
Went to get them a week or so latter and he's all chipper saying I'll start the paperwork on the receivers! Must have brushed up on the law after my call.
I don't mind when someone doesn't know everything about a subject, but when they refuse to listen or look something up themselves I'll cut them off. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 8:05:34 PM EDT
[#22]
Bill Porter out of Kennewick.
He is the owner of InTacLLC and is an excellent cerakoter. Recently got his FFL and has awesome prices. He does a lot of business on the wet side and works through gunsmith Larry Conley in Snohomish who is arguably the best gunsmith I know. You guys should really check with Bill Porter and Larry Conley if you live up in the north end. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 12:08:23 AM EDT
[#23]
An annoyance of mine when it comes to the firearms industry. Most everything is in writing, written at about the 9th grade level, and anyone can find it. Yet because some dealers were too hard headed to understand the simple instructions on the 4473, or like one of my old managers never read them, the ATF put it out twice that a receiver is just a receiver. Anyone can go the ATF website and view everything the ATF has published, from the FAQ to their publications of open and news letters. Not much is actually contradictory. Outside of the few well published cases, usually involving the Firearms Technical Branch, the regs and laws, while arbitrary are not capricious. They are pretty damn clear. A long gun (rifle or shotgun) is defined as xxx, a handgun is defined as yyy... if neither fits (and don't read into it... is it meant to be fired from the shoulder or not? At THIS moment, not an hour or even ten seconds from now, but right freaking now!) then it's an "other."
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Posted: 6/20/2017 12:23:39 PM EDT
[#24]
Not uncommon. Back when I worked at Wades there was a period when all lowers were to be done as a "Pistol". Not sure how it's done there now. Seemed to be a CYA thing.
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Posted: 6/20/2017 12:49:00 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
An annoyance of mine when it comes to the firearms industry. Most everything is in writing, written at about the 9th grade level, and anyone can find it. Yet because some dealers were too hard headed to understand the simple instructions on the 4473, or like one of my old managers never read them, the ATF put it out twice that a receiver is just a receiver. Anyone can go the ATF website and view everything the ATF has published, from the FAQ to their publications of open and news letters. Not much is actually contradictory. Outside of the few well published cases, usually involving the Firearms Technical Branch, the regs and laws, while arbitrary are not capricious. They are pretty damn clear. A long gun (rifle or shotgun) is defined as xxx, a handgun is defined as yyy... if neither fits (and don't read into it... is it meant to be fired from the shoulder or not? At THIS moment, not an hour or even ten seconds from now, but right freaking now!) then it's an "other." 
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Posted: 6/20/2017 5:33:45 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
An annoyance of mine when it comes to the firearms industry. Most everything is in writing, written at about the 9th grade level, and anyone can find it. Yet because some dealers were too hard headed to understand the simple instructions on the 4473, or like one of my old managers never read them, the ATF put it out twice that a receiver is just a receiver. Anyone can go the ATF website and view everything the ATF has published, from the FAQ to their publications of open and news letters. Not much is actually contradictory. Outside of the few well published cases, usually involving the Firearms Technical Branch, the regs and laws, while arbitrary are not capricious. They are pretty damn clear. A long gun (rifle or shotgun) is defined as xxx, a handgun is defined as yyy... if neither fits (and don't read into it... is it meant to be fired from the shoulder or not? At THIS moment, not an hour or even ten seconds from now, but right freaking now!) then it's an "other." Lesson learned. Drive a little further next time. Also they charge $40 a transfer. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 11:11:52 PM EDT
[#27]
I think some businesses use deliberately messed up, or confusing paperwork as a way to discourage people from trying to buy receivers through them again. If they don't want to process receivers, they would need to do is tell people "we don't want to process those", or learn applicable laws and tell folks,they charge extra processing fees for firearms or receivers they otherwise wouldn't make much money on.
I really wouldn't expect them to process my receivers without charging me for the paperwork. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 11:44:28 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, this was the main argument I had, then he brought up some bullshit state mumbo jumbo about having to have LE sign off on it since it COULD be truned into a pistol. Lesson learned. Drive a little further next time. Also they charge $40 a transfer. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 11:51:52 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now I really just want to go up there and try to buy a receiver and see what happens. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yeah, this was the main argument I had, then he brought up some bullshit state mumbo jumbo about having to have LE sign off on it since it COULD be truned into a pistol. Lesson learned. Drive a little further next time. Also they charge $40 a transfer. |
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