As most of us know already, the Washington AG has introduced, through compliant legislators, bills to ban “assault weapons” and “high” capacity magazines.  As a backup, he has proposed a bill that would create a new tier of restrictions, licensing and restrictions for such items in Washington State.  Many believe, as do I, that these bills will not pass in the current legislature.  The danger, however, lies in the Initiative process.

While failure of these bills is hopefully likely, it is inevitable that the proposed AWB will appear as an Initiative on the 2018 ballot.  Given the political makeup of this state, and recent Bloomberg Initiative successes, the passage of such an Initiative seems all but a sure bet.

There are those who would say we need to rally at the state capital and contact our legislators, and while such things are always a good idea, Initiatives are not won or lost in Olympia.  This battle must be fought in the public domain and will require substantial funding.  Bloomberg’s funding is a shining example of this requirement.

If we are to thwart such an Initiative we must contribute to those groups who can fight this battle in the media for us.  This will not be won by protests on the Capitol lawn, but by a clear and consistent message put forth without interruption in all of the media formats.  We cannot rely on the NRA to fill this void as evidenced by their lack of presence in our state during the I594 debate.  We must contribute funds to other groups who are vocal locally.

In addition to our personal contributions, it is time for the local businesses who profit from these firearms to begin heavily funding these groups.  We have manufacturers and many, many gun shops whose livelihood depends on the sale of firearms explicitly targeted by this proposed ban.  It is time for these businesses to make an effort to stop the AWB movement or risk being put out of business.

Money, not protests, is our only hope in this battle.

I am going to say something very real.

There is nothing that anybody can do to stop this. Washington State is lost; all of you should consider moving. As a property owner in the South Puget Sound area, I look at these forums often to see what is the what of what of the area; I have a vested interest in consideration of retiring in the area. I spent a long time on JBLM before being moved. I love the area and it used to be a great place. Not even just the AWB issue, but so many other issues just make me not want to live there, it is completely lost. I feel very sorry for everybody that lives there east of the Cascades and people like me that lived in Pierce County, but got wrapped up in what is happening there. I think now I will be selling and staying down south or retiring in a state like Montana or Idaho.

The simple very real fact is that if any of these bills make it to Inslee's desk, they are law. The even more real fact is that if these bills make it to the initiative process, they will most certainly become law; due to the insanely flawed process that for some reason exists in Washington State. To compound the issue forget about challenging this and having it overturned because that is simply not going to happen.

I agree 100% with the new guy!

I agree 100%, which is the reason I moved out of WA many years ago and settled in Montana, I still have real estate holdings in Clark County, that I visit a couple of times a year as well as a sister that still lives in SW Washington, but the writing was on the wall years ago with which way Washington was going, and it is not just Washington, Oregon has followed in step with California, the left coast is a lost cause when it comes to constitutional rights and I am glad I read the wall many moons ago!

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you.

But it doesn't mean I'm going to give up, it would be great if some billionaire came to our aid just on the principle of protecting our Constitution and Bill of Rights. But that is not likely.

We do need to figure out a way to fight though, and I believe a very organized effort needs to be put together.

I was born and raised here in Washington state, and don't really have the means to move out of state, and feel completely victimized by the wants of 3 counties. But I'm not leaving yet.

I'd like to take part of fighting the good fight before I move.

Count me in.

I will be donating to the SAF.

Done with the NRA.

Why not make an initiative or law to combat this garbage? Fast-track a new bill. Would that work or even be a possibility?

Why not lobby for a repeal of the initiative process?  If we can get rid of those at least it buys us some time to work with legislators.  Not all of them have gone over to the left leaning side.

SFC out

This is what im wondering as well....and where are the billionaire libetarians and conservatives? 50 million is pocket change for these guys...that asshole nazi bloomberg and soros have bought these initiatves for few million tops...

Everything in life has three options:
Freeze.

Flee.

Fight.

Choose one of the above.


For those that choose to fight:
Ideas on how to fight:

IDEA #1:
Much better organization at rallies:
1) More people there.  To do this we need a better way to get word.  This can be email alerts, phone calls, text or phone call trees.

2) When organized, face to face meeting with all legislators, Governor, Lt Governor, etc must be made.  From the above group will be sent to the right places at the right time to make the case.

3) Visual (non hat, as these are asked to be removed when inside hearing rooms; no signs) recognition of why we are there.  

4) Need to show early for hearings, take the seats in the morning and do not give them up.

I would think this would be the specialty of the NRA, WAC, SAF, etc.  If that is not happening we all need to step up and bring 2 friends.

IDEA #2:
Introduce an initiative.  I suggest the following: "Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Washington: It shall be an absolute defense from prosecution when the law is more than twenty-nine words in length."  Nope that is the whole thing right there.  

IDEA #3:
Challenge initiatives and bills under Art II section 19: Bill to contain one subject.  No bill shall embrace more than on subject, and that shall be expressed in the title.

We lost the $30 license tabs in this state under Amalgamated Transit v State, 11 P.3d 762 (2000).  I 594, and the AWB currently contain more than one issue.  I have asked my representatives to ask the AG for an official opinion on the issue count.  To date no luck.  I get unofficial opinions.  I have written letters to the AG asking on Initiatives (as I am the legislature at that time), I have gotten back letter saying we only do that for the legislature; um okay.

We were able to own, but not use suppressors in this state because of an AG opinion.
We got AOWs because of AG opinion.

IDEA #4:
Challenge these bills under Art I sect 24 Right to bear arms:  The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.

IDEA #5
Challenge the laws in Federal court for violating Interstate Commerce.  Removing the potential market for legal items has an adverse effect on tax collection, and market for business.

IDEA #6: (edit to add 6, 7, 8, 9)
Signature collection for initiatives needs to be proportional.  Meaning that all districts have to submit enough signatures to get on the ballot, not just a fixed percent of the overall state voter pool.

IDEA #7:
Jury Duty.  When you get called, we all hate it.  Do your duty, and overturn laws from the Jury box.

IDEA #8:
Become a Judge.  Legislate from the bench, or Perhaps De legislate.

IDEA #9:
BAR complaint about the AG.  IMO he does not understand his duty, nor his oath of office.

Add you ideas.

For those waiting for the billionaire, the NRA, SAF, etc.  Remember Oz never gave anything to the Tin Man!!!

'Salvation' from such an initiative will likely have to come from the US Supreme Court.

That said, anything short of a NFA-style registration scheme or turn-them-all-in is largely unenforcable for anything that can be 3D-printed (how exactly do you determine the year-of-manufacture of an unmarked polymer lower)?

More than likely Tool and Die marks of some sort will be there.  It will not be what we are used to seeing, it will be look at how it was printed, and with what material.  This is 0.003 micron material, that was not available until XXXX date so this is too new.  Under XRay or some other the pattern of the welding be different from program to program.  The heat from the nozzle adding in air born contaminates

I LOVE idea 6.  require the number of signatures equal to 10% of registered voters from every precinct to get an initiative on a statewide ballot.  you want a law for the entire state?  then representatives from the entire state must agree to put it on the ballot.

Guys, I grew up in NY state and almost no one complied with the new registration requirement there.

I hope Washingtonians have the same backbone on the slight change this ever becomes law...

It isn't enough that I disagree with the above suggestion.  I feel that anyone who feels this way can GO FUCK THEMSELVES!!!  The cowards who cut and run instead of fighting will just end up waiting to get fucked over in their new state.

Anyone who feels I'm being too harsh can call me on it at the number below.  Thank you.

Randy Bragge
[email protected]
(360) 440-5889

Where's the "like" button?  Just cutting and running every time the going gets tough eventually leaves you trapped in a corner.  

This last Presidential election should also prove that nothing is lost or hopeless.  Some long time deep Blue states were turned Red.  Hard to do that if we all relocate to Wyoming or something.

I suggested this in a thread.  Seattle & certain politicians will fight any initiative reform, but it's damn well worth a try.

Hear hear!

I've lived in 4 states now (New York, California, Iowa, here) and I moved here because it is pro-gun.

I'm going to stand and FIGHT.

+1 on this message!

This last election showed that pro-freedom people CAN win. It's time to roll up our sleeves and fight, not run away.

I am also very concerned that this will fail in Olympia and then get turned into an initiative by WAGR, and we all know where that will lead.

Unfortunately I don't think SAF is the right group to fight an initiative. They are too old school, they rely too much on direct mail and most of their material is dated. Even their anti-594 signs were completely useless IMHO. Gottlieb has done well in court but his political tactics from the 80's don't work today in the broader population. Just look at http://www.ccrkba.org/ for example - it's straight out of last century.

Rallies also achieve very little IMHO. Very few successful groups use them for anything more than photo ops.

We really need a couple of things to fall our way to win this:

1. The NRA. Way better at this than anyone. Yes, they abandoned us on 594 but they can't afford to repeat that mistake and keep members in WA.

2. A SCOTUS decision giving us air cover and strict scrutiny on modern sporting rifles. This is unlikely to arrive in time unfortunately, unless there is more turnover on SCOTUS this year. This might be the long play that undoes every state AWB.

3. The WA Supreme Court finds some spine and backs up their Seattle v Evans decision (http://www.courts.wa.gov/opinions/pdf/906084.pdf). It appears the geniuses at WAGR forgot that we have a strong right to bear arms in the WA Constitution, and the Evans decision extended this to military arms, making an AWB problematic. The proposed AWB is probably in violation of the WA State Constitution, and this is where SAF could be useful.  

4. Recall Ferguson. This would require 750k signatures, so probably less than a million dollars for a PAC. If we could actually get a decent candidate in there, they could look at point 3 above and declare the AWB initiative unconstitutional. Long shot perhaps but worth discussing.

This makes more sense.   The fucktard liberals have the system rigged in their favor so there's no way to beat them in their game.  Need a Trump-style strategy to break it.  Trump won by not following the libtards' game and making his own.   I'd even "hire" him to advise us on how to beat the fucktards in the West Coast.

I think I'm in love
Why aren't you running for office? I hate the cut and run attitude.

Since WA politicians are temps and only make about $45k a year I lack the means to pay for a campaign, serve and earn enough of a living at my day job in the shipyard to ensure I can retire in the next ten years (I'm in my 50's).  Politics also means compromise and a willingness to make deals you don't like.

Anyone care to guess how Senator Kline was convinced to say (about the silencer bill in 2011) on the Senate floor "I encourage this body to show this bill a lot of love."?  He sure as hell did not do it out of the goodness of his heart.  I have no idea who dealt with him, but I'm sure there was a price (a deal made) to pay.  Ditto for Representative Jinkins' support of the SBR bill on the House floor a few weeks after she killed it twice in committee.  

Talking the talk on the internet is one thing, as is merely participating in committee hearings.  Walking the walk as a Senator or Representative is quite another.

So, out of curiosity, could Trump enact or start something that would mandate states to follow Federal gun laws, as in the 2nd Amendment?

I know that basically States can enact BULLSHIT laws that supersede federal law, i.e. the 2nd Amendment. . Is there a way the Federal Government could abolish that? Free all the states like NY, Kalifornia and the such.

Make weapons ownership a Federally regulated, uniform law? Put it under a National Security Act since We protect 2 borders of the USA?

I dunno, just wondering.

Just finished reading through the whole bill.  It specifies that there are 5 limited approved lawful purposes for use and possession of "assault weapons" with the license.  These are buying, selling, hunting, target shooting at a range, and competition.  It appears that personal/home defense is not considered a "lawful purpose".  So you can still use your GP100 or 870 to fend off a home invasion (for now).  But that pistol or carbine with a threaded barrel must stay locked in the safe when a bunch of thugs invade your home.  So much for maintaining situational awareness or protecting your hearing with your legally owned suppressor, unless you'll be using your bolt or lever action.

Liberals protect their own.  Why do you think the  where they get their way have the highest crime rates?   Do not forget they are also for early release of criminals, "safe spaces" for drug use, meaning helping to spread it, hence encouraging drug consumption and smuggling, etc.  

It's quite clear on what side they are.

Just sent off my email to my "representatives"...

Per googled info from WA State, a "citizen" in Seattle is 12 times more likely to die from a Heroin or Prescription drug overdose than to be killed by any firearm, per published data from 2012.

The deaths from Firearm were not edited to remove numbers from suicides or self defense/LEO shootings.  Per the data from King County, military styled rifles accounted for 0.6 % of weapons used in the homicides.

So how much money/time/energy are our politicians wasting to "fix" 6 tenths of one percent of the "problem"?

Guns are not the problem... let your reps know and get them to reply.  

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/heroin-deaths-spike-nearly-60-percent-in-seattle-area/

http://www.kingcounty.gov/depts/health/violence-injury-prevention/violence-prevention/gun-violence/LOK-IT-UP/~/media/depts/health/violence-injury-prevention/documents/homicide-investigation-tracking-system.ashx

I was thinking of this same idea today.

I doubt it, the States have to follow Federal Law, but can implement laws to go above and beyond the Federal minimums... except when it comes to weed or deportation apparently?

I need someone to sell a 5 or 10 pack of decent lowers so I can at least bypass this a little bit.

Exactly, restrict the states from imposing undo, and restrictive laws that burden the LEGAL residents of the USA. I'm an AMERICAN before I'm a Washingtonian..

A few years ago when I lived down in Nevada a local gun shop did a special order for NVHTF members of lowers with the state seal on the side of them.  you got as many as you ordered and you even got to customize your SN.  any chance a gun shop here could do something like that for an affordable price so we can all pick up as many as we will need for the next few years?  I know I have a few sitting in the safe waiting to be built but I would absolutely pick up a half dozen or so if someone did a special order for the right price.

When I was in 2A Industries last week, they were running a special of five Aero stripped lowers for $350.

This!!!

I just bought a bunch of blem lowers from PSA for $49.99 each, this is the second time that I have done it and they look great. The only thing I could tell is it seems they went from milling the markings to laser engraving them. LINK

Thanks for the heads up. I ended up walking into a local shop and asking for a deal on 5. Said they would do four since the new form only has four slots now.

One can finish-machine an 80% AR-15 lower.
My personal favorites are from Tactical Machining, Andersen, and 80% Arms.
One can also finish-machine an 80% .308 AR lowers from the same companies, plus an Armalite style .308 AR lower from Genesis CNC.
There are 80% 1911 single stack and 2011 double stack frames.
There are also 80% SIG P228/229 frames from Matrix Precision.
Ruger 10/22 80% receivers from Tactical Machining.
Glock 17 and now Glock 19  style frames from Polymer 80.
I have machined all of these myself and they have all turned out great and function flawlessly.
I highly suggest that everyone get busy doing and learning how to do the same thing.
They cannot restrict , register, nor confiscate what they don't know about.

Double post.

You must be a relatively new transplant to this state & unaware of the political makeup & the peculiar initiative process here.

This bill is purposely designed to attack legal gun owners.  Period.  The densely populated cities & counties that run the gammut from socialist lite to searingly communistic political slant where this bill is surely being embraced with open arms will ensure that, even if failing the legislative process, will be voted into law by the power of the popular vote.  The votes - & the money - are against us.  Chest beating doesn't change this fact.

Barring federal level intercession & US constitutional override, we are looking at a severe threat to us all.  The potential of this becoming law is very likely.

That's pretty funny.  

I594 passed and it wasn't made to be scary at all by the gun grabbers. It's for the good of the people.  I know there were even absent minded gun owners that voted for that garbage.

These Bills likely may not pass BUT.....You mention Assault Weapons in an initiative and it's game over around here.  

Have fun believing you are going to beat the three liberal main counties in this state.    

I appreciate your fight attitude but I just don't have the heart or the drive anymore.    I'm the dude that want's to go live in the sticks and not be bothered.

The objective must be to change this initiative process to be like the electoral college and all counties have a say.  Nowadays it's built to be a majority dictatorship and the liberal democras know that they have the voting system rigged enough to get the results they want in those "simple majority" votes.

What is needed to change it?



The way things are happening today is like they dump their shit using dump trucks and we have to cleanup using shovels.  Easy to see where it goes if the process does not change.

To be fair, my posts are not just firearms related.  

After 40 years of living around western Washington I'm just sick of what's happened to the place.    

Like I said, it's not just silly firearms issues.  I wish it was but, but it's just not.      How do I fight off all the other liberal issues and taxes?   I can vote all I want, but my vote doesn't matter anymore.  I've been out numbered IMO.