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Posted: 3/16/2016 3:36:05 AM EDT
[#1]
This shit needs to stop.
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Posted: 3/16/2016 10:12:16 AM EDT
[#2]
Just like I-594, this has nothing to to do with reducing crime. It's designed to make it all too easy to throw law-abiding gun owners under the bus.
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Posted: 3/16/2016 4:03:17 PM EDT
[#3]
Its all about control, and they won't stop.
ETA: This is the same group that did 594. Paid for by Alliance for Gun Responsibility PO Box 21712 Seattle, WA 98111. Top five contributors: Nicolas Hanauer, Everytown for Gun Safety Action Fund, Connie Ballmer, William Gates III, Melinda Gates |
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Posted: 3/16/2016 7:39:25 PM EDT
[#4]
I don't want anyone to be a victim of DV, but due process needs to be followed.
There is no cost to the petitioner. The petitioner doesn't have to give their address. No Bond is required. Reasons for granting include: ownership of firearms, evidence of recent purchases of firearms. Of the 30,000 deaths each year the bulk are suicides, roughly 19,000. The State already condones suicide. The balance of the shootings/murders, actually a majority of them, are committed by men 18-30 with some other crime involved related to gang or drug activity. False reporting is a Gross Misdemeanor, violation of the order is a C felony. Both need to be on equal footing. timelines for petitioners is 14 days max. For respondents it is 14 days minimum, 30 days maximum. Both need to be on equal footing. |
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Posted: 3/17/2016 5:14:02 PM EDT
[#5]
This is why Washington needs a wealth tax.
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Posted: 3/17/2016 6:35:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is why Washington needs a wealth tax. Explain to me why we want to allow the Camel's nose to get into the tent? |
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Posted: 3/17/2016 6:50:21 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Explain to me why we want to allow the Camel's nose to get into the tent? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is why Washington needs a wealth tax. Explain to me why we want to allow the Camel's nose to get into the tent? You know all of those pro gun control rich assholes in Seattle? Let's take 1% of their net worth every year, on assets over $10m. Then we don't need a sales tax. Or those assholes can move out of Washington and support gun control somewhere else. |
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Posted: 3/17/2016 8:56:03 PM EDT
[#8]
I'm not sure that I would trust the politicians in Olympia with that kind of taxing authority. Pretty soon the threshold for "rich" would be $50,000 and we'd be getting screwed from both ends.
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Posted: 3/18/2016 12:03:17 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know all of those pro gun control rich assholes in Seattle? Let's take 1% of their net worth every year, on assets over $10m. Then we don't need a sales tax. Or those assholes can move out of Washington and support gun control somewhere else. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is why Washington needs a wealth tax. Explain to me why we want to allow the Camel's nose to get into the tent? You know all of those pro gun control rich assholes in Seattle? Let's take 1% of their net worth every year, on assets over $10m. Then we don't need a sales tax. Or those assholes can move out of Washington and support gun control somewhere else. Bloomberg doesn't live in WA and managed to spend millions here. I think your logic is flawed. |
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Posted: 3/18/2016 12:21:45 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know all of those pro gun control rich assholes in Seattle? Let's take 1% of their net worth every year, on assets over $10m. Then we don't need a sales tax. Or those assholes can move out of Washington and support gun control somewhere else. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is why Washington needs a wealth tax. Explain to me why we want to allow the Camel's nose to get into the tent? You know all of those pro gun control rich assholes in Seattle? Let's take 1% of their net worth every year, on assets over $10m. Then we don't need a sales tax. Or those assholes can move out of Washington and support gun control somewhere else. Your newsletter, I wants it. |
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Posted: 3/18/2016 1:07:20 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bloomberg doesn't live in WA and managed to spend millions here. I think your logic is flawed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is why Washington needs a wealth tax. Explain to me why we want to allow the Camel's nose to get into the tent? You know all of those pro gun control rich assholes in Seattle? Let's take 1% of their net worth every year, on assets over $10m. Then we don't need a sales tax. Or those assholes can move out of Washington and support gun control somewhere else. Bloomberg doesn't live in WA and managed to spend millions here. I think your logic is flawed. |
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Posted: 3/18/2016 2:26:58 AM EDT
[#12]
Then that's a victory for us insofar as you can use their unwillingness to pay taxes personally as a weapon against them when they support an income tax.
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Posted: 3/21/2016 5:18:52 PM EDT
[#13]
The moms who hate everything are organizing to collect signatures at the democratic caucuses
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Posted: 3/21/2016 5:56:39 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The moms who hate everything are organizing to collect signatures at the democratic caucuses |
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Posted: 3/21/2016 6:04:35 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is why Washington needs a wealth tax. 
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Posted: 3/21/2016 6:07:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is why Washington needs a wealth tax. You don't want to give up paying sales tax to sock it to Bill Gates, Paul Allen and Nick Hanauer? |
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Posted: 3/21/2016 8:30:25 PM EDT
[#17]
Wealth tax is just opening the door to the inevitable income tax for all. Remember when al Gore's tax plan described "millionaires and billionaires" as anyone making over $200k / year? Yeah, well, that would creep down, and inflation would creep up until we were all paying that crap. Just a matter of time.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 3/22/2016 6:12:01 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sometimes I wonder if they had kids in order to have some kind of political leverage. Easiest way to get anything passed is to say it's for the kids. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The moms who hate everything are organizing to collect signatures at the democratic caucuses I highly doubt "Moms Demand Action" and similar groups demand to see proof of motherhood as a condition for supporting their agenda |
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Posted: 4/9/2016 5:15:18 PM EDT
[#19]
A good start would be a residency requirement for any contributions to political causes.
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Posted: 4/9/2016 9:15:57 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A good start would be a residency requirement for any contributions to political causes. definitely a double edged sword that could sway the state strongly to the left in such matters - who do you think has all the money to spend on political causes? |
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Posted: 4/10/2016 2:28:22 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
definitely a double edged sword that could sway the state strongly to the left in such matters - who do you think has all the money to spend on political causes? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A good start would be a residency requirement for any contributions to political causes. definitely a double edged sword that could sway the state strongly to the left in such matters - who do you think has all the money to spend on political causes? Well, the one that's really been fucking us lately has been a certain New Yorker, so how about simply putting a top limit on campaign contributions? |
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Posted: 4/10/2016 3:10:09 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You don't want to give up paying sales tax to sock it to Bill Gates, Paul Allen and Nick Hanauer? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is why Washington needs a wealth tax. You don't want to give up paying sales tax to sock it to Bill Gates, Paul Allen and Nick Hanauer? You aren't going to "sock it to" anyone with wealth of that magnitude, no matter the scheme. Wake up & smell the income tax bullsh!t before you find yourself drowning in it. |
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Posted: 4/10/2016 3:39:58 AM EDT
[#23]
I don't care if we have an income tax or a sales tax as long as we don't have both.
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Posted: 4/11/2016 12:56:13 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't care if we have an income tax or a sales tax as long as we don't have both. I certainly care.. at least with a sales tax, you're taxed on your level of consumerism, not your level of productivity. |
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Posted: 4/11/2016 1:04:32 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I certainly care.. at least with a sales tax, you're taxed on your level of consumerism, not your level of productivity. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't care if we have an income tax or a sales tax as long as we don't have both. I certainly care.. at least with a sales tax, you're taxed on your level of consumerism, not your level of productivity. Assuming similar tax effects on either, are you more likely to work less to avoid taxes or buy less? You'll buy less. And that isn't a good thing. |
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Posted: 4/11/2016 2:47:52 PM EDT
[#26]
Actually that's a very good thing. One of the big reasons that people are constantly looking for government handouts is that they have zero savings. There are PLENTY of things motivating people to over spend, taxes should encourage saving and the resulting financial independence. This is not to say that there wouldn't be sorry term economic disruption of people spent less, there would be, but those would be the withdrawal symptoms of an economy that has been addicted to long.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/11/2016 3:21:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually that's a very good thing. One of the big reasons that people are constantly looking for government handouts is that they have zero savings. There are PLENTY of things motivating people to over spend, taxes should encourage saving and the resulting financial independence. This is not to say that there wouldn't be sorry term economic disruption of people spent less, there would be, but those would be the withdrawal symptoms of an economy that has been addicted to long. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile The negative savings rate is an issue. So is people not buying things. |
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Posted: 4/11/2016 8:08:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Hmmm... Somehow...
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Posted: 4/12/2016 1:06:44 PM EDT
[#29]
Heres the real problem with violence in general, community or lack there of. If people would pull their faces out of their smart phones and talk to each other and their neighbors and actively build community we would end up with more of a support structure outside of the family. If we were to simply look out for each other we could stop things before they become an issue without litigation or leverage of law. Think about how many times we hear that XYZ perpetrator was a loner, or they became distant and now are a religious extremist shooting people. Now granted this wont stop 100% of violence but I think we just start giving a shit about our neighbors we will stop far more violence than any law. But that takes individual effort and so will probly never gain steam...
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Posted: 4/12/2016 1:22:11 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Heres the real problem with violence in general, community or lack there of. If people would pull their faces out of their smart phones and talk to each other and their neighbors and actively build community we would end up with more of a support structure outside of the family. If we were to simply look out for each other we could stop things before they become an issue without litigation or leverage of law. Think about how many times we hear that XYZ perpetrator was a loner, or they became distant and now are a religious extremist shooting people. Now granted this wont stop 100% of violence but I think we just start giving a shit about our neighbors we will stop far more violence than any law. But that takes individual effort and so will probly never gain steam... We are currently tied with the mid 1950s for the lowest rate of violent crime in the history of the United States. |
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Posted: 7/9/2016 10:28:05 PM EDT
[#31]
Bumping this up, received an email to my troll account from these assholes.
Friends -- we did it. Initiative 1491 will be on the ballot in November in Washington state.
Hundreds of thousands of people like you stepped up and joined us to say we’ve had enough of senseless gun violence, and we need to do something about it. But this is just the beginning. If the tragedies this week in Baton Rouge, Falcon Heights and Dallas have taught us one thing, it’s that now more than ever, we need to stand united and work together to keep our communities safe. We know that gun violence is preventable, but it’s going to take all of us working together to make it possible. Thank you for being a part of this movement. We hope you will continue to stand with us as we work to create a brighter and safer future for all of our communities. Thank you, The entire Alliance for Gun Responsibility team |
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Posted: 7/10/2016 12:57:22 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bumping this up, received an email to my troll account from these assholes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bumping this up, received an email to my troll account from these assholes. Friends -- we did it. Initiative 1491 will be on the ballot in November in Washington state.
Hundreds of thousands of people like you stepped up and joined us to say we’ve had enough of senseless gun violence, and we need to do something about it. But this is just the beginning. If the tragedies this week in Baton Rouge, Falcon Heights and Dallas have taught us one thing, it’s that now more than ever, we need to stand united and work together to keep our communities safe. We know that gun violence is preventable, but it’s going to take all of us working together to make it possible. Thank you for being a part of this movement. We hope you will continue to stand with us as we work to create a brighter and safer future for all of our communities. Thank you, The entire Alliance for Gun Responsibility team I saw a signature collector at the Renton Farmer's Market last week, and she was spouting all kinds of bullshit to get people to sign the petition. "Did you know that the tragedy in Orlando would have been totally stopped if FL had a similar law to I-1491 on the books? It's common sense gun control!" That's a no-shit quote of what she was saying, and the idiots were lapping it up. She asked me to sign, and I (politely) told her that it would do nothing to stop criminals, but would only create criminals out of law-abiding citizens and deprive them of due process. Her raisin brain couldn't wrap itself around that, and I knew debating her was pointless..... Given how the electorate in this state swallowed I-594, I fully expect this will pass with a larger margin. 
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Posted: 7/10/2016 1:42:30 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Given how the electorate in this state swallowed I-594, I fully expect this will pass with a larger margin. I'm sure a few bumper stickers and yard signs are going to go a long way against the juggernaut that Bezos, Gates, and Bloomberg are going to unleash. TV commercials, news stories that are carefully written to not entirely tip the station's hand that they support 1491, and a constant barrage of social media attention.
I've said it in several posts now but 1491 is probably more dangerous than 594. 1491 will have to be enforced by law enforcement unlike 594. There are courts, court officials, police departments, and vindictive wives/anti gunners just licking their chops at the prospects that this initiative will introduce. Anyone who thinks the State Supreme Court is going to hear cases where people's right to a firearm has been removed by 1491 are out of touch or retarded. Our courts could care less about either Constitution. Not everyone in this state wanted 594. Just the assholes in King County which is enough to influence any candidate or initiative in this state. It's also why anyone who thinks Trump is going to actually win Washington should get a |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 12:48:29 AM EDT
[#34]
And there's also how they "count" the votes. So, no matter how people vote the "result" will be whatever they want.
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Posted: 7/12/2016 1:59:11 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And there's also how they "count" the votes. So, no matter how people vote the "result" will be whatever they want. I'd make one but how often would I get to use it? |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 12:24:27 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know all of those pro gun control rich assholes in Seattle? Let's take 1% of their net worth every year, on assets over $10m. Then we don't need a sales tax. Or those assholes can move out of Washington and support gun control somewhere else. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is why Washington needs a wealth tax. Explain to me why we want to allow the Camel's nose to get into the tent? You know all of those pro gun control rich assholes in Seattle? Let's take 1% of their net worth every year, on assets over $10m. Then we don't need a sales tax. Or those assholes can move out of Washington and support gun control somewhere else. First off, a direct net-worth tax (eg, personal property tax) = the ultimate evil. Second, once the state gets a shot of that stuff from 'the super rich', they will be jonesing for a chunk of everyone else's.... NO new taxes. Period. At all. Especially taxes based on property-ownership or 'net worth' that includes debt-secured property. If a person owns $300-500k in mortgaged real-estate that does not mean that they have signed up to be the 'piggy bank' for all of Seattle's life-long-renter/my-most-valuable-asset-is-a-flat-screen-TV crowd... Or that they have the disposable income to pay said taxes....
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Posted: 7/12/2016 12:29:21 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don't want to give up paying sales tax to sock it to Bill Gates, Paul Allen and Nick Hanauer? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is why Washington needs a wealth tax. You don't want to give up paying sales tax to sock it to Bill Gates, Paul Allen and Nick Hanauer? I consider 'soak the rich' schemes to be BOTH immoral and doomed to failure. It will end up creeping downward, as Olympia can ALWAYS come up with enough 'good idea fairy' moments with regards to spending OPM... AND the same rich people you want to 'soak' have the political clout to ensure that it becomes a 'Sales Tax AND wealth tax' situation, not a 'Sales tax OR wealth tax' one. As much as I am no fan of the sales tax as a means of funding government (I don't like the idea of taxing consumption, generally: it encourages people to withdraw from the economy), I do not want to rock the apple cart & set WA up to become more of a tax hell than it already is. Any new tax should ALWAYS be considered an 'AND' *ON TOP* of the existing structure, not an 'OR' that 'replaces' a current tax, even if the people pushing it sell it as an 'OR'. Same goes for the carbon-tax BS they are pushing on the ballot this year (which stupid people will vote for, believing that 'only the oil companies pay' - when it is our gas prices that will bear the brunt of it)... |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 12:30:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A good start would be a residency requirement for any contributions to political causes. No. Restrictions on free speech are a slippery slope... Plus that would lock the NRA & most conservative groups out of our political fights, whereas the Left would have a BIIIIGGG money advantage due to the Gates family, etc... |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 12:32:52 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually that's a very good thing. One of the big reasons that people are constantly looking for government handouts is that they have zero savings. There are PLENTY of things motivating people to over spend, taxes should encourage saving and the resulting financial independence. This is not to say that there wouldn't be sorry term economic disruption of people spent less, there would be, but those would be the withdrawal symptoms of an economy that has been addicted to long. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Government policy should NEVER incentivize specific economic behaviors.
Government policy should support the choices of the free-market. And our current free market has chosen to reward holding assets over cash-basis savings... Which is a very, very good thing, from a national productivity perspective - an economy where cash is reinvested into stocks/bonds/real-estate is going to be MUCH stronger than one where cash is 'saved' as cash, even in interest-bearing depository accounts. |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 3:18:45 PM EDT
[#40]
That's just it, cash is never actually saved in cash. Well, not much of it anyway. Unless it's in a mattress, it's probably 1s and 0s in a computer and interested by someone, somewhere.
I agree with you in principle, but it's doubtful our government will ever be 'incentive neutral'. So long as the plan is to coddle the FSA, incentivizing saving is probably a good idea. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 8:50:22 PM EDT
[#41]
If NRA and SAF wrote us off, they made a grave mistake. We're holding on to some incredibly strong rights as is and now they're flushing us down the toilet before we are even a lost cause.
I did not see the NRA or SAF anywhere in helping us with SBR law or otherwise. |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 9:39:44 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If NRA and SAF wrote us off, they made a grave mistake. We're holding on to some incredibly strong rights as is and now they're flushing us down the toilet before we are even a lost cause. I did not see the NRA or SAF anywhere in helping us with SBR law or otherwise. Mathematically it's understandable. We have a voter initiative process in our state, and vastly unfavorable demographics that are trending downhill at one of the fastest rates in the nation. Idiots from not just all over the region, or the nation, but from all over the farking GLOBE are flocking to Seattle for MicroOogleMazon money. Boeing HQ isn't even in the same time zone anymore, and Seattle is so solidly libtarded that they're electing hardcore socialists to city council positions... repeatedly. Until something happens to change our state electoral mechanics such as the removal of the initiative process (won't happen), or the rest of the state once again sits even demographically with the population of Seattle / Bellevue / Olympia (pandemic?), we are occupied territory with an occupation government. |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 9:43:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If NRA and SAF wrote us off, they made a grave mistake. We're holding on to some incredibly strong rights as is and now they're flushing us down the toilet before we are even a lost cause. I did not see the NRA or SAF anywhere in helping us with SBR law or otherwise. I have never really heard of the NRA stepping up to the plate for any pro-NFA bills, but I may be wrong. Don't know about SAF. Hell, the NRA supported and assisted in crafting the NFA bill way back in 1934. |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 11:27:56 PM EDT
[#44]
Just drive to oregon
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Posted: 7/13/2016 12:31:56 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just drive to oregon Oregon is about 3-5 years behind us. |
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Posted: 7/13/2016 12:32:16 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just drive to oregon
Have you read 1491? This isn't some asinine hoop to jump through to buy a gun, piss your gf off? Bam! extraordinary super duper gun violence preventing emergency restraining order slapped on you and your guns taken. Drive to Oregon? Lol! Edit: Fuck WA, I'm planting a flag in ID before the elections. |
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Posted: 7/13/2016 1:38:00 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you read 1491? This isn't some asinine hoop to jump through to buy a gun, piss your gf off? Bam! extraordinary super duper gun violence preventing emergency restraining order slapped on you and your guns taken. Drive to Oregon? Lol! Edit: Fuck WA, I'm planting a flag in ID before the elections. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Just drive to oregon Have you read 1491? This isn't some asinine hoop to jump through to buy a gun, piss your gf off? Bam! extraordinary super duper gun violence preventing emergency restraining order slapped on you and your guns taken. Drive to Oregon? Lol! Edit: Fuck WA, I'm planting a flag in ID before the elections. |
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Posted: 7/13/2016 10:30:40 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have you read 1491? This isn't some asinine hoop to jump through to buy a gun, piss your gf off? Bam! extraordinary super duper gun violence preventing emergency restraining order slapped on you and your guns taken. Drive to Oregon? Lol! Edit: Fuck WA, I'm planting a flag in ID before the elections. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Just drive to oregon
Have you read 1491? This isn't some asinine hoop to jump through to buy a gun, piss your gf off? Bam! extraordinary super duper gun violence preventing emergency restraining order slapped on you and your guns taken. Drive to Oregon? Lol! Edit: Fuck WA, I'm planting a flag in ID before the elections. I'd trust my present girlfriend to never manipulate, nor be dramatic. So in this, I'm not worried. But given my experience with other crazy broads, should this one and me end our relationship one day - at best females will get a good dicking for the night but I won't progress relationships further in this state if it should pass. Too much risk. Also have similar feelings on moving to Idaho should things get worse here. |
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Posted: 7/14/2016 3:05:28 PM EDT
[#49]
Damn, I was hoping this didn't get enough signatures. This is a terrible law, moves from a restraining order triggering loss of 2A rights to a "I have a bad feeling" triggering it.
For the people talking about an income/wealth tax - we should come up with a voluntary system - allow people to opt in to paying extra taxes towards specific programs of their choice, once that program reaches a funding threshold it becomes active for 1 year, when funds are exhausted it is shut down. Hopefully that keeps them too busy and too poor to stir up more trouble. This would be a beautiful capitalist implementation of government funding. Like a patreon for government programs. |
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