User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 3/15/2016 3:08:11 AM EDT
[#1]
Form 1 SBR still isn't legal in wa yet...nor will it be until at least June. Here is a step by step process you can follow, should it become legal again...
linky In July 41F goes into effect. After that, trusts have to submit photos / fingerprint cards for all trustees etc. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/15/2016 9:21:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Thank you for the info... I guess if the Form one issue in WA is taken care of before July 13th, if so, I should be OK with a trust w/o the fingerprints and photos... If not, I guess I'll adjust to the new requirements.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/15/2016 11:15:54 PM EDT
[#3]
Yep, that's the plan. It would be wise to submit whatever forms you'd like to submit the first day the WA law is in effect... Because the current version of the form 1 expires on 06/30/16. No one, AFAIK has explained what form will be used between 7/1 and 7/12...But I would NOT wait and find out. Get the guns and $ and plans ready between now and June and once that law goes into effect pounce like a starving mountain lion on a wounded deer.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2016 1:58:26 AM EDT
[#4]
It's overblown. So many people read a little bit about 41P, then never bothered to keep up to date with 41F. Yeah, it's another step and another $20 per trustee for the fingerprints and passport sized photo. But it also completely eliminates the CLEO signature requirement, so even if you don't use a trust you don't need the signature. I'd only do this if I were single and didn't give a damn what happened to my stuff after I died.
The link to the entire rule change. A VERY long read. https://www.atf.gov/file/100896/download The summary, This final rule defines the term "responsible person," as
used in reference to a trust, partnership, association, company, or corporation; requires responsible persons of such trusts or legal entities to complete a specified form and to submit photographs and fingerprints when the trust or legal entity files an application to make an NF A firearm or is listed as the transferee on an application to transfer an NF A firearm; requires that a copy of all applications to make or transfer a firearm, and the specified form for responsible persons, as applicable, be forwarded to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) of the locality in which the applicant/transferee or responsible person is located; and eliminates the requirement for a certification signed by the CLEO. These provisions provide a public safety benefit as they ensure that responsible persons undergo background checks. In addition, this final rule adds a 1 This final rule was signed by the Attorney General on January 4, 2016. It is effective 180 days after date of publication in the Federal Register. The final rule published in the Federal Register may differ slightly from this version as a result of Federal Register formatting. new section to ATF' s regulations to address the possession and transfer of firearms registered to a decedent. The new section clarifies that the executor, administrator, personal representative, or other person authorized under State law to dispose of property in an estate may possess a firearm registered to a decedent during the term of probate without such possession being treated as a "transfer" under the NF A. It also specifies that the transfer of the firearm to any beneficiary of the estate may be made on a tax-exempt basis. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2016 3:29:44 AM EDT
[#5]
We didn't need passport photos, fingerprint cards, or CLEO sigs/notification before...and now we do, and this change is good? Yeah, not so much.
The only good thing about 41F is that they dropped the requirement that we notify ATF when we change responsible persons... but they'll fix that as soon as they realize that it completely negates a great deal of their "trust busting" scheme. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/22/2016 7:36:26 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We didn't need passport photos, fingerprint cards, or CLEO sigs/notification before...and now we do, and this change is good? Yeah, not so much. The only good thing about 41F is that they dropped the requirement that we notify ATF when we change responsible persons... but they'll fix that as soon as they realize that it completely negates a great deal of their "trust busting" scheme. Thanks to 41P/41F: NO CLEO SIGNATURE FOR ANYTHING ANYMORE, after June. Just 'notification', like a C&R (eg, mail a copy of the forms to the Sheriff's Dept) |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/22/2016 9:10:30 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's overblown. So many people read a little bit about 41P, then never bothered to keep up to date with 41F. Yeah, it's another step and another $20 per trustee for the fingerprints and passport sized photo. But it also completely eliminates the CLEO signature requirement, so even if you don't use a trust you don't need the signature. I'd only do this if I were single and didn't give a damn what happened to my stuff after I died. The link to the entire rule change. A VERY long read. https://www.atf.gov/file/100896/download The summary, Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's overblown. So many people read a little bit about 41P, then never bothered to keep up to date with 41F. Yeah, it's another step and another $20 per trustee for the fingerprints and passport sized photo. But it also completely eliminates the CLEO signature requirement, so even if you don't use a trust you don't need the signature. I'd only do this if I were single and didn't give a damn what happened to my stuff after I died. The link to the entire rule change. A VERY long read. https://www.atf.gov/file/100896/download The summary, This final rule defines the term "responsible person," as
used in reference to a trust, partnership, association, company, or corporation; requires responsible persons of such trusts or legal entities to complete a specified form and to submit photographs and fingerprints when the trust or legal entity files an application to make an NF A firearm or is listed as the transferee on an application to transfer an NF A firearm; requires that a copy of all applications to make or transfer a firearm, and the specified form for responsible persons, as applicable, be forwarded to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) of the locality in which the applicant/transferee or responsible person is located; and eliminates the requirement for a certification signed by the CLEO. These provisions provide a public safety benefit as they ensure that responsible persons undergo background checks. In addition, this final rule adds a 1 This final rule was signed by the Attorney General on January 4, 2016. It is effective 180 days after date of publication in the Federal Register. The final rule published in the Federal Register may differ slightly from this version as a result of Federal Register formatting. new section to ATF' s regulations to address the possession and transfer of firearms registered to a decedent. The new section clarifies that the executor, administrator, personal representative, or other person authorized under State law to dispose of property in an estate may possess a firearm registered to a decedent during the term of probate without such possession being treated as a "transfer" under the NF A. It also specifies that the transfer of the firearm to any beneficiary of the estate may be made on a tax-exempt basis. It costs 20 dollars per trustee? This is news to me but ive never done the individual route so i wouldnt know about the fingerprint process. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/23/2016 1:20:38 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We didn't need passport photos, fingerprint cards, or CLEO sigs/notification before...and now we do, and this change is good? Yeah, not so much. The only good thing about 41F is that they dropped the requirement that we notify ATF when we change responsible persons... but they'll fix that as soon as they realize that it completely negates a great deal of their "trust busting" scheme. Where 41P started and 41F ended is indeed a good thing, as long as you keep things in perspective. We were about to be saddled with all the new requirements AND CLEO sign off. We'd be locked out entirely. Sure, it's incrementalism, but at least we got some lube this time....., |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/23/2016 3:05:22 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks to 41P/41F: NO CLEO SIGNATURE FOR ANYTHING ANYMORE, after June. Just 'notification', like a C&R (eg, mail a copy of the forms to the Sheriff's Dept) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We didn't need passport photos, fingerprint cards, or CLEO sigs/notification before...and now we do, and this change is good? Yeah, not so much. The only good thing about 41F is that they dropped the requirement that we notify ATF when we change responsible persons... but they'll fix that as soon as they realize that it completely negates a great deal of their "trust busting" scheme. Thanks to 41P/41F: NO CLEO SIGNATURE FOR ANYTHING ANYMORE, after June. Just 'notification', like a C&R (eg, mail a copy of the forms to the Sheriff's Dept) I've never got a cleo sig for an NFA item...or notified them either. Not seeing the benefit here...at all. Is there a state where trusts are banned? If not, we got nothing but screwed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/24/2016 6:15:19 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks to 41P/41F: NO CLEO SIGNATURE FOR ANYTHING ANYMORE, after June. Just 'notification', like a C&R (eg, mail a copy of the forms to the Sheriff's Dept) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We didn't need passport photos, fingerprint cards, or CLEO sigs/notification before...and now we do, and this change is good? Yeah, not so much. The only good thing about 41F is that they dropped the requirement that we notify ATF when we change responsible persons... but they'll fix that as soon as they realize that it completely negates a great deal of their "trust busting" scheme. Thanks to 41P/41F: NO CLEO SIGNATURE FOR ANYTHING ANYMORE, after June. Just 'notification', like a C&R (eg, mail a copy of the forms to the Sheriff's Dept) OK I feel retarded still asking this, but does this apply to Form 1s? Will I be able to complete a Form 1 WITHOUT CLEO SIGNATURE? Because our Pierce Co. Sheriff Pastor simply will not sign them, not even for his own deputies. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/24/2016 8:44:32 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It costs 20 dollars per trustee? This is news to me but ive never done the individual route so i wouldnt know about the fingerprint process. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's overblown. So many people read a little bit about 41P, then never bothered to keep up to date with 41F. Yeah, it's another step and another $20 per trustee for the fingerprints and passport sized photo. But it also completely eliminates the CLEO signature requirement, so even if you don't use a trust you don't need the signature. I'd only do this if I were single and didn't give a damn what happened to my stuff after I died. The link to the entire rule change. A VERY long read. https://www.atf.gov/file/100896/download The summary, This final rule defines the term "responsible It costs 20 dollars per trustee? This is news to me but ive never done the individual route so i wouldnt know about the fingerprint process. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/24/2016 10:10:34 PM EDT
[#12]
You can make your own passport photos and fingerprint cards at home.
There is currently no certifying agency that you must pass some test in order to take finger prints. Just order the cards, and you'll be able to take them at home. Passport Photos at home Taking Fingerprint tips from FBI A $7 ink pad can do a hundred sets of prints + .20 for a 4x6 photo printed at Walmart or Target. You can get free fingerprint cards from the ATF. Order them here |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/25/2016 1:07:04 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thinking he meant cost of passport photos and fingerprints. There are businesses setup that process TWIC and TSA pre-pass applications. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's overblown. So many people read a little bit about 41P, then never bothered to keep up to date with 41F. Yeah, it's another step and another $20 per trustee for the fingerprints and passport sized photo. But it also completely eliminates the CLEO signature requirement, so even if you don't use a trust you don't need the signature. I'd only do this if I were single and didn't give a damn what happened to my stuff after I died. The link to the entire rule change. A VERY long read. https://www.atf.gov/file/100896/download The summary, This final rule defines the term "responsible It costs 20 dollars per trustee? This is news to me but ive never done the individual route so i wouldnt know about the fingerprint process. Thinking he meant cost of passport photos and fingerprints. There are businesses setup that process TWIC and TSA pre-pass applications. Yeah, just a wild guess as to the price. It can vary depending on where you get them done. There isn't any requirement to find someone to do them for you, but someone who is experienced in taking them can get them done quicker with much less chance of error. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/25/2016 10:55:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK I feel retarded still asking this, but does this apply to Form 1s? Will I be able to complete a Form 1 WITHOUT CLEO SIGNATURE? Because our Pierce Co. Sheriff Pastor simply will not sign them, not even for his own deputies. Yes, 41F applies to form 1... After 07/13/16...So if filling an individual form 1 (as opposed to using a trust or Corp) without a Cleo Sig is your objective, you'll want to file after 41F is in effect. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2016 3:42:36 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've never got a cleo sig for an NFA item...or notified them either. Not seeing the benefit here...at all. Is there a state where trusts are banned? If not, we got nothing but screwed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
We didn't need passport photos, fingerprint cards, or CLEO sigs/notification before...and now we do, and this change is good? Yeah, not so much. The only good thing about 41F is that they dropped the requirement that we notify ATF when we change responsible persons... but they'll fix that as soon as they realize that it completely negates a great deal of their "trust busting" scheme. Thanks to 41P/41F: NO CLEO SIGNATURE FOR ANYTHING ANYMORE, after June. Just 'notification', like a C&R (eg, mail a copy of the forms to the Sheriff's Dept) I've never got a cleo sig for an NFA item...or notified them either. Not seeing the benefit here...at all. Is there a state where trusts are banned? If not, we got nothing but screwed. A single person with no kids now doesn't have to pay for a trust. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2016 10:35:06 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can make your own passport photos and fingerprint cards at home. There is currently no certifying agency that you must pass some test in order to take finger prints. Just order the cards, and you'll be able to take them at home. Passport Photos at home Taking Fingerprint tips from FBI A $7 ink pad can do a hundred sets of prints + .20 for a 4x6 photo printed at Walmart or Target. You can get free fingerprint cards from the ATF. Order them here Bingo, this right here. I lol at my friends who are waiting weeks for a fingerprint appt when they can do it themselves rfn for minimal cost. I even offer to help, but no 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 2:54:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A single person with no kids now doesn't have to pay for a trust. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
We didn't need passport photos, fingerprint cards, or CLEO sigs/notification before...and now we do, and this change is good? Yeah, not so much. The only good thing about 41F is that they dropped the requirement that we notify ATF when we change responsible persons... but they'll fix that as soon as they realize that it completely negates a great deal of their "trust busting" scheme. Thanks to 41P/41F: NO CLEO SIGNATURE FOR ANYTHING ANYMORE, after June. Just 'notification', like a C&R (eg, mail a copy of the forms to the Sheriff's Dept) I've never got a cleo sig for an NFA item...or notified them either. Not seeing the benefit here...at all. Is there a state where trusts are banned? If not, we got nothing but screwed. A single person with no kids now doesn't have to pay for a trust. You didn't have to before, either. There are many free trusts available online. There is no net gain. We just have more regulations now. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/17/2016 12:22:27 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never got a cleo sig for an NFA item...or notified them either. Not seeing the benefit here...at all. Is there a state where trusts are banned? If not, we got nothing but screwed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: We didn't need passport photos, fingerprint cards, or CLEO sigs/notification before...and now we do, and this change is good? Yeah, not so much. The only good thing about 41F is that they dropped the requirement that we notify ATF when we change responsible persons... but they'll fix that as soon as they realize that it completely negates a great deal of their "trust busting" scheme. Thanks to 41P/41F: NO CLEO SIGNATURE FOR ANYTHING ANYMORE, after June. Just 'notification', like a C&R (eg, mail a copy of the forms to the Sheriff's Dept) I've never got a cleo sig for an NFA item...or notified them either. Not seeing the benefit here...at all. Is there a state where trusts are banned? If not, we got nothing but screwed. Benefit is not having to do a trust anymore. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/17/2016 3:19:03 AM EDT
[#19]
In Washington a trust is the ONLY way to own NFA stuff, especially in the "everything is a transfer" regime we currently live under.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
