Cascade Arms...uh oh

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Cascade Arms...uh oh

Posted: 11/12/2015 3:30:32 PM EDT

So I stopped by Cascade Arms in lacey yesterday to check things out. I hadn't been by in a few months and here's what was on the front door..

Anybody else see this or heard anything about this? From what I can gather, there been closed for a couple months and aren't returning any calls or emails. Seems there are folks who have guns on consignment with them right now as well.

ETA: photo was not mine. I didn't think to take one, grabbed from another local board.

Posted: 11/12/2015 4:07:26 PM EDT

[#1]

I bought a can and later SBR from them, come find out they never submitted stamps to the ATF despite my paying for them and the items in full. Thosw items still sit in the shop. Paperwork was filled out June and October of 2014.

I imagine they're going to undergo a lot of legal challenges for lying to their customers.

Posted: 11/12/2015 4:11:18 PM EDT

[#2]

That is some shady shit

Posted: 11/12/2015 7:49:05 PM EDT

[#3]

That's really too bad. Always seemed like nice guys when I was in there, and I received a number of NFA items through them..

Posted: 11/13/2015 12:41:31 PM EDT

[#4]

What is it about firearms retail that seems to attract so many dishonest shitbirds with lousy business sense? Are they all just smart enough to get business loans, licenses, and jumpstart a retail operation, but too stupid to notice the huge regulatory microscope watching them all the time?

We see this pattern over and over and I can't wrap my head around how these kinds of people seem to keep ending up in the same line of business AND crashing and burning at it so spectacularly.

Posted: 11/13/2015 1:28:49 PM EDT

[#5]

Well, now I know what the deal is. Thanks for the information, OP.

Posted: 11/13/2015 1:50:08 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:

What is it about firearms retail that seems to attract so many dishonest shitbirds with lousy business sense? Are they all just smart enough to get business loans, licenses, and jumpstart a retail operation, but too stupid to notice the huge regulatory microscope watching them all the time?

We see this pattern over and over and I can't wrap my head around how these kinds of people seem to keep ending up in the same line of business AND crashing and burning at it so spectacularly.

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I suspect it's more of honest intentions to start and poor business sense. They start to cut corners when things are tight and pretty soon the corner cutting becomes SOP. At that point, it's scramble time to cover their asses. In the case of Cascade, it sounds like (based upon discussions here and at other sites) the owner(s) were using current income to cover back expenses and hoping for the future income to cover the current expenses. It's a trap that all too many business owners have gotten themselves into.

Regardless of the business, I've seen so many people start up a business without a proper plan. They think they can do what others do successfully, but they don't fully consider all the potential pitfalls.

I feel sorry for anybody who is owed money/merchandise by Cascade. They're likely SOL.

Posted: 11/13/2015 9:20:07 PM EDT

[#7]

They are currently open.

I'm picking up dinner at the teriyaki place and their sign says open and there's a customer in there.

I'd drop in to see what's up, but I'm already late getting home.

Posted: 11/14/2015 1:20:32 AM EDT

[#8]

I happened to be in Oly 11/09, there was a sign saying sorry & he would be there 11/09....

Except he wasnt.

Sorry for those who got burned.
Renton, 10 years ago? Shitbird named Gervace? Fucked Dan Cowan far harder than anybody else combined.

Posted: 11/14/2015 4:24:45 AM EDT

[#9]

That's too bad. They were always good to me.

After Sandyhook I felt like they were never the same (which was odd, since it seemed like that would have been a good time for business).

Hopefully folks who are in limbo don't get screwed.

Posted: 11/15/2015 3:25:57 AM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
I happened to be in Oly 11/09, there was a sign saying sorry & he would be there 11/09....

Except he wasnt.

Sorry for those who got burned.

Renton, 10 years ago? Shitbird named Gervace? Fucked Dan Cowan far harder than anybody else combined.

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I really like Dan. Dianne at Pintos is great to do business with.

Posted: 11/15/2015 8:03:12 PM EDT

[#11]

Oh FFS, those are the folks that I had my RPR on order with...and a deposit on it.

Who would I contact on a claim, the OPD?

Posted: 11/15/2015 9:34:08 PM EDT

[#12]

They were closed for 3-4 weeks due to multiple family issues. No response to phone or email. Answering machine went full, then phone line got disconnected. They were open for the first time (per them) on Thursday and I was able to get my items. They said they would be open everyday until things got straightened out, but then called me about some title 2 paperwork on Friday.. Said they were going to close again and open on Monday.

Posted: 11/16/2015 3:30:58 PM EDT

[#13]

tel is still out of service today
I have a deposit on a can, which may or may not be there.(from when I ordered it and all the time they were closed, it could have been sent back as undeliverable. I emailed the manufacturer.

Posted: 11/16/2015 3:31:18 PM EDT

[#14]

Well, just tried to call...the number is out of service.

Looks like I just got screwed out of my $300 deposit.

Posted: 11/16/2015 5:49:37 PM EDT

[#15]

Go in person. They are open. I just came from there. Not sure what's up with the phone, but they were using the phone to call in NICS when I was here.

Posted: 11/16/2015 11:35:03 PM EDT

[#16]

Taking someone's money and failing to deliver the goods is simply theft. Be sure to file a police report, and report to BATFE if the theft involves a weapon you paid for. It may help your case if you filed a theft report earlier than other people.

Posted: 11/17/2015 2:55:46 PM EDT

[#17]

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Quoted:
Go in person. They are open. I just came from there. Not sure what's up with the phone, but they were using the phone to call in NICS when I was here.

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Headed down as soon as they are (supposed to be) open.

ETA: Not open.

Posted: 11/17/2015 8:36:05 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
Taking someone's money and failing to deliver the goods is simply theft. Be sure to file a police report, and report to BATFE if the theft involves a weapon you paid for. It may help your case if you filed a theft report earlier than other people.

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Sadly, it doesn't work that way. At all.

Posted: 11/17/2015 10:08:33 PM EDT

[#19]

bummer

Posted: 11/17/2015 10:08:45 PM EDT

[#20]

bummer

Posted: 11/18/2015 12:46:21 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:

Sadly, it doesn't work that way. At all.

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View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Taking someone's money and failing to deliver the goods is simply theft. Be sure to file a police report, and report to BATFE if the theft involves a weapon you paid for. It may help your case if you filed a theft report earlier than other people.

Sadly, it doesn't work that way. At all.

It is unfortunate IF they are having the sorts of problems that cause this type of behavior. I don't believe that most people set out to have business problems, but we are all human. Communicating, and being good to your word goes a long way toward gaining other people's understanding if one is having any sorts of difficulty. Simply blowing people off sure wouldn't help things though.

Posted: 11/18/2015 3:14:31 PM EDT

[#22]

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Quoted:
bummer

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Indeed...so, can you get me an RPR in .243?

Posted: 11/18/2015 3:29:15 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
I don't believe that most people set out to have business problems, but we are all human. Communicating, and being good to your word goes a long way toward gaining other people's understanding if one is having any sorts of difficulty. Simply blowing people off sure wouldn't help things though.

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Went through similar recently. Seller sold me a made-to-order item. Website said 3-4 weeks, sellers confirmation email said 4-6 weeks. At the 7 week mark, I asked for an update. "Shipping next week" then that week came and went... finally on week 10 (after, what I perceived to be a 3-4 week wait, initially) I initiated a Paypal dispute. Seller drug his feet long enough he was able to get it shipped. Item was as I expected, but lack of communiation was what totally pissed me off. Had he said "Hey, our supplier fucked up and we are going to miss that deadline by a bit" I could understand. But radio silence after you miss all your own self-imposed deadlines.... Not good.

Posted: 11/18/2015 3:38:14 PM EDT

[#24]

I think a lot of guys are embarrassed and think they can work their way out of a situation, only to then have it dog pile.

It's especially dangerous if you take the common business model of '90% of complaints self correct' and ignore the initial customer inquiries.

I'm not much of a retail gun customer, but I'd like the industry to succeed.

Posted: 11/18/2015 6:37:43 PM EDT

[#25]

Contacted the OPD, who said it would be a civil matter because no firearms transfer had taken place...which makes sense to me.

They also confirmed that the company is in bankruptcy proceedings, wouldn't say anything about the ATF one way or another.

Apparently I'm one of about 50 people who got screwed...

...I hate thieves.

Posted: 11/19/2015 7:00:17 PM EDT

[#26]

Maybe the currently accepted definition of theft has changed. I defined theft as taking someone's money without delivering the goods offered for sale. Robbery was taking someone's property by threatened, or actual force. If the common definition of theft no longer includes taking someone's money without delivering what was offered for sale, I need to know...

Posted: 11/19/2015 10:41:35 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
Maybe the currently accepted definition of theft has changed. I defined theft as taking someone's money without delivering the goods offered for sale. Robbery was taking someone's property by threatened, or actual force. If the common definition of theft no longer includes taking someone's money without delivering what was offered for sale, I need to know...

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View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:
Maybe the currently accepted definition of theft has changed. I defined theft as taking someone's money without delivering the goods offered for sale. Robbery was taking someone's property by threatened, or actual force. If the common definition of theft no longer includes taking someone's money without delivering what was offered for sale, I need to know...

That isn't defined as theft, and hasn't been for a long time. You basically gave the business a "deposit" for the item, which effectively makes you a creditor after a bankruptcy has been filed. The likelihood of recovering your money is limited however. Like all those people that were screwed by the Shadow Ops bankruptcy. But you aren't completely screwed (yet), there is still a chance.....

http://blog.bdo.com/index.php/2011/06/23/treatment-of-customer-deposits-after-a-retailer-files-for-bankruptcy/

Pertinent section:

Recovery on Customer Deposits

Bankruptcy Code Section 507(a)(7) establishes a priority for unsecured claims of individuals arising from Customer Deposits towards the purchase of goods that were not delivered up to a maximum of $2,600. The remaining portion of the un-refunded deposit would become a general unsecured claim. Consumers owed deposits are only paid after all of the secured creditors and administrative expenses of the bankruptcy (such as bankruptcy lawyers’ fees) are paid. As priority creditors, holders of deposits would be paid up to $2,600 before any general unsecured obligations of the retailer are satisfied.

Posted: 11/26/2015 5:35:17 PM EDT

[#28]

Have any of you been by lately to see if they're open? It's a ways for me to stop by and have them be closed. Thanks in advance for any info.

Posted: 11/26/2015 6:14:35 PM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:
Maybe the currently accepted definition of theft has changed. I defined theft as taking someone's money without delivering the goods offered for sale. Robbery was taking someone's property by threatened, or actual force. . ..

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When perpetrated by a Governmental Entity, especially the Justice Department, this is now referred to as Asset Forfeiture.