The Poulsbo Sportsman Club prohibits the use of 50 BMG rifles at their club.  This is due to perceived noise, power/range and potential berm damage issues.  As a member and 50 caliber rifle owner I wanted to shoot my suppressed LAR on the 200 yard line.  I went to a club meeting and proposed that 50 BMG rifles with reduced velocity target loads (1800 fps) be allowed.  Every member present was against my proposal partly because there was no good way for the range safety officer to verify how hot the ammunition was loaded.

Since then I have written to the club president and suggested that a bench mounted 55 gallon drum be used to contain some of the noise and that I be allowed to shoot some rounds into the berm to see if the 50 BMG really does damage it much more than 308 or 338 magnum rifles.  In order to do this I will need club members at a meeting to support my 50 caliber rifle test proposal.  If my suggestion does not get any support from the member present, then I can't do the test.  If the test shows that the berm damage is acceptable, then I will further propose that the club allow members to use 50 caliber rifles twice a month, for example on the first Saturday and third Sunday of each month.

At most privately owned gun clubs, there is usually a small core of people who show up and do everything to keep the range running properly.  These are the people who vote in the club leaders during club elections and vote them out if things are not run their way.  The two gun clubs I belong to are run this way.  There are 750 PSC club members but I don't know of any that own 50 BMG rifles.  Does any Poulsbo Sportsman Club member here own a 50 BMG rifle that you would like to use at the range?  If so, please contact me.

Randy Bragge
[email protected]
(360) 440-5889

Folks bringing unwanted attention are partly to blame for the closure of Kitsap Revolver.  Now you are trying to bring the same unwanted attention to PSC.  All we need now are people who live nearby claiming excessive noise and bullets flying into their backyards and PSC will be on the radar and might suffer the same fate as Kitsap Revolver.

Really?  So do you believe people like Kevin Gross who claim they can feel a violent shock from inside their homes when a gun is fired 1-2/3's miles away?  I hope not, it's a very foolish claim to make.  But the gun owners in Kitsap County are expected to be stupid enough to swallow it hook line and sinker.  Are you a gun owner in Kitsap County?


That already is happening.  PSC is a rifle range, the county zoned the area around it as residential and allows people to build right next to it.  They could have kept it park land or industrial, but they either didn't care about the people who choose to live there or are going to use it as a means of getting PSC shut down.  

Kitsap County could have also encouraged the use of noise abatement, but instead they decided to be the only county in WA that used the dangerous weapons statute in an attempt to prohibit use of noise abatement.  Even the WA AG and BATFE thought they were full of crap.  Now I can install noise abatement at a rifle range to reduce noise

There are tons of complaints made by surrounding neighbors about PSC, look for yourself online.  This is nothing unusual; assholes move into an area and expect the local government to change it to conform to what they want, never mind that a recreational facility that benefits the people of the county exists.  You think people treat PSC much kinder than KRRC?  If you do, then you've got your head in the sand.  When Central Kitsap Safe and Quiet gets bored of fucking over the KRRC, they will move on to the PSC then to anyone with 5 acres of land who shoots legally on their property in Kitsap County.  CKSQ has no integrity and manufactures outrageous statements to dupe turkeys like yourself.

The last PSC meeting I was at it was made crystal clear that the 50 BMG restriction had nothing to do with what the county wanted; it was mostly to do with the person (club member) who was in charge of maintaining the berms.  

My plans include those that would keep bullets on the range, reduce noise and protect the berms.  If I'm allowed to do it my way, a 50 BMG rifle will have no more impact on the area around PSC than a 308 rifle.

So what do you have for constructive criticism of my ideas to improve the PSC other than ignorance and prejudice?

Randy

Yes, I am a gun owner in Kitsap County and have probably lived here longer than you have.  You sound like an ex-Californian with that "entitlement" attitude who wants to change the rules that don't fit them.

It's their house, their rules and you know that when you signed up.  Go in the woods or up in the mountain if you want to experiment with your crotch toy and don't spoil it for the rest of us.

I don't think you have addressed the root issue that they believe full power 50 cal to be too powerful for the berm. They can't prove you've downloaded your hand loads without firing them, and that isn't a viable approach since damage would be done. Is there commercially boxed subsonic 50 cal?

Is there a power figure the berm is designed for? X ft-lbs? Find an off the shelf load that qualifies and you may be more persuasive.

This should go well.

So what have you done to help ensure that the Commissioners don't ban shooting in the entire county starting with shutting down the PSA and the KRRC?  Are you aware that the PSC has yet to obtain an operating permit and are only open at the whim of the county until they get one, if ever?


Nope.  Grew up in MN, joined the USN, retired in 2003.  WA resident since 1999.  


As an American I'm entitled to pressure the legislature or any governing body to make changes as I see fit.  I have a few choices, push for change, be a sheep or break the rules.  I would prefer to push for change.

Surely you are aware that the club members make the rules at PSC?  There is no gun club fairy waving her magic wand around here.  At every PSC meeting I've attended there was a request for some sort of rule or other change to be made to the club.  I'm not the first and I won't be the last.  If you want to oppose my suggestions you should show up to a club meeting.

I've been entitled to make numerous trips to Olympia and met with various legislators as part of the grass roots efforts to ease restrictions on guns in WA.  So far we got silencers and SBR's back.  I'm damn proud of the efforts of my fellow Washington residents who also made the effort to help the bill sponsors change the rules that we feel did not suit us.  It's part of what makes us real Americans.

Back to the PSC.  So if a member of the club wants to make a rule change then they have some sort of entitlement attitude?  I'm not really sure what you mean by that.  As a member of the PSC I'm entitled to use the range in any manner at any time so long as I obey the rules.  This is how every gun range I've shot at it run.  Why do you think the PSC is any different?


I'm very well aware of the rules.  Those rules say I'm entitled to show up at any membership meeting, get up and speak, present a proposal and hope that it is seconded and discussed.  Is this one of those entitlement problems you speak of?


It's not a crotch toy, it is a rifle.  You're using the same insult that anti gun hoplophobes use when denigrating use of any guns by law abiding Americans.  

Your smack talk is not doing anything to further this conversation.  It is safer to shoot at an established range than out in the woods.  Everyone else knows that, why don't you.

You're not being clear on how using 50 BMG rifles at the PSC will spoil it for the rest of us.  With measures in place to ensure the rifle does not bounce a projectile off the ground and over the berm, berm re-enforcement and noise abatement, how will use of these rifles impact the range more than any other rifle?

You remind me of a backwards range safety officer I met at a rifle range years ago.  Somehow my use of a rifle with a homemade silencer offended him.  To make me go away he decided to accuse me of violating federal law by not having a copy of my ATF form 4 with me while at the range.  This man was so ignorant and prejudiced that it hurt me to tell him just how wrong he was.  An ATF form 1 is used for homemade cans, not the form 4.  The only place a federal law existed that required me to have any copies of the tax stamp was in his head.  He shortly thereafter became an ex-RSO at the range.

Randy

I want to address it.  I would like to conduct an experiment.  I'll rake the berm smooth then shoot some 50 BMG and some 338 ultra mag into it to compare the damage done by each.  If the 50 BMG is significantly worse, then I'll have to come up with some sort of bullet trap made form steel that will hold the dirt in place so the berm does not require as much maintenance.  If I can't find a way to show that 50 BMG doesn't damage the berm as much as other powerful rifles, then I'm out of luck.


A cartridge loaded with 235 grains of powder is nearly full, a 150 grain charge feels much less full if you shake it.  I brought this up at the meeting I went to but it was rejected as inadequate.


Not that I'm aware of.  The people at the last meeting also objected to subsonic 50 BMG as they could not be assured that a person was using downloaded ammo.  I've never had a problem shooting my 510 whisper; it is a much shorter round and uses only 28 grains of powder to achieve 1050 fps.


None that I'm aware of.  Right now if it looks like 50 BMG, they don't want it there.

Randy

I've been a PSC member for years.  There are some things I really don't like about the range. But it's what we have and the political environment is not such that the club should be pushing the envelope right now. It's going to be an uphill most likely losing battle for you.

I've never heard from anyone in person that use of 50 BMG rifles at PSC would in any way push the envelope or threaten the club in any way.  I don't know why I'm hearing it on this forum.  It was made clear to me that the restriction is the PSC's decision and not the County's.  Would you be privy to any information that shows the County Commissioners would revoke or refuse to issue a conditional use permit if they found out 50 BMG rifles were being used at PSC?  If I was told that the County would shut down the PSC over this issue I would wait until other persons were elected in their place.


No kidding!  :)  But that's the same thing I heard for years from gun owners who tried to convince me that I was wasting my time even thinking about a silencer use bill in Olympia.  If the club is willing to let me talk, I want to try to make changes to improve it.

Unless I can get just one person at a meeting who is willing to second my motion to just speak on the topic, I won't even get to say more than "I move that the club use a 50 BMG rifle to test the capacity of the berms and the effectiveness of noise abatement."  At the last meeting I stood around just looking at the other members of the club until one person hesitantly seconded my motion just so I could talk.  Five minutes later I lost, completely.  There was no more discussion.

Randy  

Ranb,
I think you will run into the attitude of "Don't bother us with facts, our minds are made up".

I ran into the same attitude when I asked if I could shoot a 30 cal, M1 carbine on a pistol range in Oregon that often had rifle carbine matches on it.  I was told "No", because it was too powerful, and that other than for matches, they didn't want anything that powerful on the range.  So when I asked if they actually thought that the M1 carbine round was more powerful than the 44 mag, 454 Casul, and many other cartridges that they would allow on that range, they tabled the discussion.   About a year later, after man members complained about law enforcement agencies regularly using AR-15's on the range, they changed the rules to allow both rifles..go figure.

In any case, if you can't shoot your 50 cal at that range, Upper Nisqually Sportsman's Club regularly holds 50 cal matches, and even holds 50 cal load developlment and testing days.  Sure, it is more of a drive, but at least you won't be out in the pucker brush with all the bubbas, drunks, and crank freaks.

I used to compete in Eatonville years ago; long drive though.

I wonder what kind of reception NewToyAR15 would get for calling their 50 cal target rifles crotch toys.

Ranb

I wish I was closer so I could help you out. You've done a lot to promote firearm ownership rights here in WA and I wish you the best of luck getting a fair chance at allowing 50cal rifles permitted at PSC.

fucking lol

you sound like the californian to me

Randy does more for gun owners of this state than you ever have even when he takes a shit in the morning

What I meant by pushing the envelope is additional noise, to which you have offered up a solution. If I was at a meeting I would second your motion.

Thanks.

Randy

Wrong, grasshopper.  Never stepped foot in California in my 26 years of Naval Service.  I avoided that place like the plague.

I'm asking for help to make a proposal to the PSC; something that will reduce caliber restrictions and possibly decrease the impact the club has on the surrounding neighborhood.  This is an entirely reasonable request to make of the gun owners in Kitsap County.  You don't have to help but you also don't need to get in the way either.

Why is it that you spout anti-gun rhetoric on a gun forum, especially in the hometown section?  Are you counting on the relative anonymity of the internet to shield you from the possible repercussions of your rants?  

Calling guns "crotch toys", claiming that certain small arms are unsuitable for a well engineered gun club like the PSC and generally attempting to smear the reputation of a person who is putting their name and contact info on the net is just playing into the hands of those bigots who would try to make all of Kitsap County a no shooting zone.  You are going to ruin it for us all if you don't use some common sense.

This is the rifle I want to shoot at PSC. Suppressed 50 BMG  The silencer makes it much more tame to shoot.  With a bullet trap to keep the berm dirt from being blown away and a bench mounted muffler that also serves as barrel angle limiter we can make 50 BMG rifles have less of an impact on the club than other smaller rifles shot from the bench or offhand.

Randy

Although I support your interest in doing the research into solving anyone's objections to the use of 50 BMG rifles, I still think that you are largely bumping up against "Don't bother us with facts, our minds are made up."  That kind of ignorance really hurts ALL firearms owners/users.  As firearms enthusiasts, we need to be doing whatever we can to help other firearms enthusiasts have places to reasonably and safely shoot.  

Pitting one type of firearms owner against another (hunting firearms, vs military or defensive types of firearms) is one of the most basic tactics of the anti-gun groups.  We have to get past that nonsense.

Obviously, we don't want to do those things that we know will result in places to shoot being shut down, but research into solving problems about how to reasonably use various firearms at our existing ranges seems more like sensible precautions, rather than foolhardy shooting.

Compared to other videos I have seen of .50BMG, that is very tame indeed. However, I have a feeling that the body of PSC will not want to open up the "can-of-worms" that is 50-cal rifles. While yours may be quiet and tame, I can envision other members with loud, full-power guns.

That being said- I think your problem-solving and strategizing on how to install means of noise abatement and prevent damage to the berm, are good and I wish they would give you a fair shot.

Everything sounds good on Youtube.  But removing the brake off of a 50 cal and replacing it with a silencer makes the difference between a painful noise level and a completely tolerable one.

Randy