As for now I wouldn't say there's any truth to it.

I doubt that would happen.  I still check eforms every couple weeks to see if I got a notice, lol.  Wasn't it posted earlier in this thread that if that were to happen, it would open them up to a lawsuit much like the one NoloContendere is working on?

Does anyone have a recommendation for a SOT in Oregon that can help me manufacture an SBR and Form 3 it to my local guy?

For all their treachery, the ATF doesn't have much of an imagination. At this point they've become reliant of "helpful" tips from idiot gun owners who constantly write them letters...providing the ATF with all the ideas they need to restrict our rights. The Sig Brace is exhibit A. The issue was settled, the brace was legal. But wait, 1000 letters stream into ATF HQ and eventually, someone over there is like, "people think this might not be legal after all...maybe we should make it so...pistols with these are pretty much SBRs anyway right?" And away it goes. Asking the ATF ANYTHING about Form 1s in WA is counter productive at this point. The only thing that will help is a) the courts or b) the Washington legislature/gov. There is literally not a single potential positive outcome from writing them about WA F1...there could potentially be negative results, however.

You're mixing up two different branches in the ATF. The Firearms Technical Branch is the one that seems to change it's mind. The NFA branch has rarely changed anything in the past few decades. The FTB is the one that has changed certain firearms from title 1 to title 2 (NFA, often erroneously called class 3)

The NFA branch is the least anti-gun portion of the ATF, and the ATF isn't nearly as anti-gun as most people think. The NFA branch is not about denying anything. They are the only portion of the ATF that actually makes money. They want our check and to give us the stamp with no fuss. They are about as black and white as you can find in the government. Hell, except for the FTB everything in the ATF is pretty black and white. Read the instructions, look up the regs and it's not that hard. Hell, half the newsletters and open letters are to clarify  (simple) instructions people can't understand. Like a receiver is just a receiver not a pistol, not a rifle, not a shotgun... just like the instructions on the form say.
They can't interpret state laws and the state needs to get it's shit together.

There is no "truly free state," and the ones that are close will eventually change or be forced to because of the people fleeing states like ours. As people run, the entire state will be overcome with libtard cancer and it will be spread into the states like Utah over time.

^. That.  

So the various departments at ATF are completely autonomous and it's impossible for there to be any cross-talk, even informally, between them? Yeah, I wouldn't bet on it.



a. government doesn't really care about "making money", at least not on the scale of NFA. It's a pittley amount of $, once you consider how expensive of an operation any government department is.

b. I'm sorry, but it's "anti gun" to kick back an NFA form because the user puts down the actual caliber instead of whatever the ATF wants to see. Just one example. There are such things as rubber stamps in government/citizen relations, and this isn't one of them. If you don't do everything exactly how they want, they deny you....and then they make you wait a long time to get a refund. That's not indicative of a pro-gun 'we just want the money' operation. I'm not saying that filling out forms is "hard", I've never had one denied, just that they are nitpicky ****s over there. Also, the entire Form 3 process is inherently anti-gun. There's no law that requires it be done in the manner in which ATF currently does it. The ONLY purpose is to harass buyers. That's it, and that's anti-gun. A suppressor is being transferred from only licensed dealer, who has a ton of cans...to another licensed dealer than has a ton of cans. Are you preventing crime by having the second dealer wait a month? No. There's zero reason why the ATF couldn't just have a "inform us of the transfer via Form 3, but there's no need to wait for "approval" before you ship the thing" policy.

c. they may not 'interpret' state laws, but if a janitor working for a state calls them up and tells them something is illegal, they shut down all approvals for the rest of time. Yeah, not anti-gun AT ALL.



Then I'll move again. I don't have tree roots coming out of my feet.

You must be unfamiliar with forged FFLs/SOTs and their use in illegally acquiring firearms. A "let us know" later system would be pretty ripe for abuse by people who want factory built NFA items but dont want to pay the taxes/ fill out the forms. I know of 3 instances personally where forged FFLs (2 cases) and a forged SOT (doing MG "R&D" stuff and repairing OTHER people's NFA weapons) were used to acquire firearms and access to NFA firearms.  

In the case of the local FFL circa 1996, he sold 100+ Brycos/Jennings/ cheap surplus handguns to a Mail Boxes Etc. address in CA via a money order and a forged FFL.

You're going to run out of place to run to. Instead of staying and trying to keep it from happening, at best you'll die before the final state gives in.

Yes, the ATF denies because of some very minor shit. Actually, they will send the form back to the dealer and give you a month to fix it. Pretty simple to do. They also are black and white. There is no, "but," or "it seemed like," bull. It either fits or it doesn't. There aren't any questions and if you get a denial for something like the wrong caliber on the form you didn't follow the directions that are in pretty simple english. Then you didn't fix the problem when they notified you.

good point, all 'citizens' should be subject to tyranny because a microscopic minority does bad things with freedom. Good call. ATF LOVES shit like what you're talking about. More good press / convictions for them. People doing bad things with guns justifies their existence, budget, jobs etc.

You do whatever you want to do, I'm personally not willing to live in a place with gun laws like California. Staying until you are being loaded onto the cattle car is not a plan that interests me. States take quite a long time to change. I'm 40 now. I'll probably need 2 moves total the rest of my life. Ain't nothin'. I'm more than willing to do it for more freedom.

I wonder if Form 1 SBR data can be FOIA'ed to find the true number of Form 1 SBRs approved by the federal gov't in WA state.

To what end?
Make the number public and prompt revocation? Prosecution by the state?

that's the kind of info that may satisfy some people's curiosity, but wouldn't have much other up-side to obtaining.

According to Nolo's thread, the BATF doesn't consider it an "agency" under the FOIA and thus does not comply with FOIA requests.  I wish I was making that up.

Anyone previously approved submit a 5320.20 lately? My original 5320.20 forms are expiring soon.

Ya I just got mine back, second try though. As long as you dont tell them you're making an SBR you'll be fine.

I just got notice that my RA Form 2/Form 4 SBR project was approved Sept 24th. Stamp inbound.

Nice!  You must have submitted the form in early June?

Submitted 8/21

Just for clarification, how much did that run you?

I think I paid $150 in addition to the tax stamp.

That's awesome news! I submitted with Rainier a bit before you, in late July, but hopefully I'll be hearing from them soon! I think it was $125 for the "manufacturing service"

I would assume you would be hearing soon. Just to note if you don't know already, Rainier has suspended this service indefinitely. They will process all in the que however, like yours.

Yes, I learned about this the day they made the decision because I happened to be in their store when they did. I have an SOT down near Olympia taking care of my new SBR project that is being "manufactured" in Portland and Form 3 transferred to him.

What...how!?  I'm going to assume you used a trust as well, since I haven't heard of anyone being able to do individual here.  But I hear individual is around a month now, and trust typically 4 months.  In fact, I just received a suppressor yesterday that was 4 months to the day.

Trust. Got lucky I suppose.

Crazy lucky. Enjoy it (especially on behalf of the rest of us).

Nolo makes this thread SO easy to fap to.....

Hit em where it hurts nolo! It seems like just about every fed agency thinks its "special" in some way, and doesn't want to follow the rules as a result. ATF is an especially egregious example. The courts are one of the better ways to teach them otherwise!!

Good.  Thank you, Nolo.

Soon?

In before the summary judgement judicial sidestep.