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Posted: 12/27/2014 11:23:40 PM EDT
[#1]
Haven't heard anything from the DOL, and since they are saying they are just the agency responsible for RECORD keeping and not giving advice on the laws and regulations, etc., they can EATADIK.
It doesn't make any sense either, as the RCW still defines a "pistol" the same was as the federal statutes, and a stripped lower doesn't meet any criteria to be considered a pistol. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 12:12:37 AM EDT
[#2]
That was my position, unless the ATF had rewritten the GCA of 1968. Boils down a random guy taking a gunshop employees word for it and posting it on facebook ;) I actually bothered calling Surplus and inquired and they seemed surprised.
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Posted: 12/28/2014 12:36:31 AM EDT
[#3]
My FFL says that the DOL does NOT want AR15 lowers registered as pistol lowers.
Something about a backlog...
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Posted: 12/28/2014 1:02:29 AM EDT
[#4]
The DOL doesn't want the forms for any pistol frame/receiver. AR, 1911, revolver, whatever. I've been told this over the phone, and received a letter from them about it.
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Posted: 12/28/2014 1:09:30 AM EDT
[#5]
Spiffy
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Posted: 12/28/2014 2:12:38 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The DOL doesn't want the forms for any pistol frame/receiver. AR, 1911, revolver, whatever. I've been told this over the phone, and received a letter from them about it. Even though there is a check box for "frame only" on the form........ Go figure.... 
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Posted: 12/28/2014 4:17:00 PM EDT
[#7]
I bought my last lower from SAA at the WAC show in Puyallup. It's been a few years since I bought a lower and noticed the form changed so I asked about building a pistol. She told me that they don't do any extra paperwork when selling at the show but at the store in Tacoma they do. I didn't ask much further since I didn't plan on building a pistol.
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Posted: 12/28/2014 4:29:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Yeah I've had lowers done both ways, I don't get it.
SAA in particular I think has done it both ways. Local FFL did them as a pistol. Another FFL I used did not. So I have no idea. All I know is the stupid pistol registry we have in this state is unconstitutional to our state constitution and needs to be stopped. The state DOL has no business recording or registering firearms. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 6:53:40 PM EDT
[#9]
When I was behind the counter, we were told to only transfer them as pistols. Doubtful even DOL or anyone else really knows the scoop.
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Posted: 12/29/2014 1:01:52 AM EDT
[#10]
Wow....ten years AFTER the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994 sun sets, it is STILL a mess?
I suppose if one WANTED to do a CYA, if ya were going to do a pistol build, then the "logical" method would be to fill out the "pistol registration form" also. Granted, the 4473's have changed since I bought my lowers. Stripped lowers are stripped lowers, neither pistol nor a rifle. I don't even recall what I did when the ban sun set in 04 and AR pistol builds were legal. Aside from a confirmed stripped lower (left factory that way)....I don't recall ever registering my build. It's bad enough when the DOL will not give advice. Sounds like something to contact the state AG office since it is an interpretation, if it is an RCW or WAC involved. |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 1:05:52 AM EDT
[#11]
I recently purchased a stripped lower at SAA I was told since I mentioned building a pistol that they were required to fill out the pistol forum and send it in.
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Posted: 12/29/2014 2:36:49 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow....ten years AFTER the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994 sun sets, it is STILL a mess? I suppose if one WANTED to do a CYA, if ya were going to do a pistol build, then the "logical" method would be to fill out the "pistol registration form" also. Granted, the 4473's have changed since I bought my lowers. Stripped lowers are stripped lowers, neither pistol nor a rifle. I don't even recall what I did when the ban sun set in 04 and AR pistol builds were legal. Aside from a confirmed stripped lower (left factory that way)....I don't recall ever registering my build. It's bad enough when the DOL will not give advice. Sounds like something to contact the state AG office since it is an interpretation, if it is an RCW or WAC involved. I had one AR lower done as a pistol because it will will be carried loaded in a car with a cpl....."What I can't have it loaded? Look it up at the DOL...It IS A Pistol...  "
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Posted: 12/29/2014 3:28:27 PM EDT
[#13]
The RCW 9.41.010 definition of firearm and a pistol are so loose, and so divergent from the federal laws, that you could make an argument that a stripped lower isn't even a firearm, and it's definitely not a pistol.
"Firearm" means a weapon or device from which a projectile or projectiles may be fired by an explosive such as gunpowder.
"Pistol" means any firearm with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length, or is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. Explain to me how a projectile may be fired from a stripped lower? And show me where the barrel is on a lower? I would submit that a lower does not meet either criteria. |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 8:11:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Even if a lower was a pistol, what's this about registration? what is this nonsense? Never heard of such a thing...
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Posted: 12/29/2014 8:24:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even if a lower was a pistol, what's this about registration? what is this nonsense? Never heard of such a thing... Only FFLs have to do it, private transfers and moves were exempt... Otherwise all pistol transfers have to have a wait (or cpl), extra form filled, and other BS. I strongly believe this was one of the real motives behind 594 which again is unconstitutional in this state in my personal opinion. |
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Posted: 12/30/2014 12:04:55 AM EDT
[#16]
register a stripped lower as "other", caliber "multi".
Question 18. Type of Firearm(s): Check all boxes that apply. "other" refers to frames, receivers and other firearms that are not either handguns or long guns (rifles or shotguns), such as firearms having a pistol grip that expel a shotgun shell, or National Firearms Act (NFA) firearms. |
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Posted: 12/30/2014 3:39:00 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow....ten years AFTER the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994 sun sets, it is STILL a mess? I suppose if one WANTED to do a CYA, if ya were going to do a pistol build, then the "logical" method would be to fill out the "pistol registration form" also. Granted, the 4473's have changed since I bought my lowers. Stripped lowers are stripped lowers, neither pistol nor a rifle. I don't even recall what I did when the ban sun set in 04 and AR pistol builds were legal. Aside from a confirmed stripped lower (left factory that way)....I don't recall ever registering my build. It's bad enough when the DOL will not give advice. Sounds like something to contact the state AG office since it is an interpretation, if it is an RCW or WAC involved. The AG's office has already responded to several people asking 594 questions, and have said that "they cannot offer legal advice, consult an attorney." |
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Posted: 12/30/2014 5:01:11 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The AG's office has already responded to several people asking 594 questions, and have said that "they cannot offer legal advice, consult an attorney." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Wow....ten years AFTER the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994 sun sets, it is STILL a mess? I suppose if one WANTED to do a CYA, if ya were going to do a pistol build, then the "logical" method would be to fill out the "pistol registration form" also. Granted, the 4473's have changed since I bought my lowers. Stripped lowers are stripped lowers, neither pistol nor a rifle. I don't even recall what I did when the ban sun set in 04 and AR pistol builds were legal. Aside from a confirmed stripped lower (left factory that way)....I don't recall ever registering my build. It's bad enough when the DOL will not give advice. Sounds like something to contact the state AG office since it is an interpretation, if it is an RCW or WAC involved. The AG's office has already responded to several people asking 594 questions, and have said that "they cannot offer legal advice, consult an attorney." 
(I was looking for a GIF of a smiley with a mouth dropping, but didn't see one....) OMG.... (smh) |
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Posted: 12/30/2014 12:01:54 PM EDT
[#19]
I had a LGS tell me all stripped lowers are subject to wait/cpl...because they can be built as a pistol.
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Posted: 12/30/2014 2:00:29 PM EDT
[#20]
There is no govt office that offers free legal advice, 'cept maybe the public defender but I think they only do so when assigned your case.
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Posted: 12/30/2014 3:57:37 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:The AG's office has already responded to several people asking 594 questions, and have said that "they cannot offer legal advice, consult an attorney." the AG is not obligated to respond to private individuals. they are however obligated to respond to elected officials. if you want a 594 opinion from the AG, you have to do it through your elected representative. |
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Posted: 12/30/2014 8:06:21 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is no govt office that offers free legal advice, 'cept maybe the public defender but I think they only do so when assigned your case. This is undoubtedly true, but for an issue like this it's also a total load of shit. I mean, If you ask the AG's office "does this new law make doing X illegal?" and they say "don't ask us, ask a lawyer"....so you do and the lawyer says "you'll be fine, X is legal".....so you do X....and then the AG prosecutes you for doing X. It's not like you can stand up in court and say "damn it judge, a lawyer told me it was ok!" That's not a defense and I don't even know if there is a mechanism under which you could be compensated by the lawyer for giving you the bad advice. Even if there was, who cares if you're in the Big House with no gun rights? On black/white questions you should be able to get an answer from the AGs office without being an elected representative. It ain't gonna be the rep that gets in trouble, it's gonna be the poor sap that was told to talk to a lawyer! |
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Posted: 12/30/2014 8:43:41 PM EDT
[#23]
Just picked up a stripped lower from WCA today for an SBR build where they didn't have me do the state paperwork.
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Posted: 12/31/2014 12:08:04 AM EDT
[#24]
Just picked up a lower today at an FFL, he told me he now has clear guidance from the DOL not to do it as a pistol. He said he was told the other way up until about 6 months ago before.
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Posted: 12/31/2014 10:37:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is no govt office that offers free legal advice, 'cept maybe the public defender but I think they only do so when assigned your case. Of course not "free" but we do pay the taxes that pay their salaries. 
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Posted: 1/1/2015 5:55:33 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: Unsubstantiated Facebook rumor that the WA DOL is requiring stripped AR lowers be registered as pistols at Surplus Arms. No legal cite of course, just a "the guy behind the counter told me that". Has anyone else heard this or maybe FFL holders can chime in about anything recent rulings from DOL? If nothing there, then perhaps the WA RCW has the relevant info: http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41 |
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Posted: 1/8/2015 2:35:41 AM EDT
[#27]
If I remember I'll scan the letter DOL sent saying they don't want the pistol transfer application for receivers or frames.
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Posted: 1/13/2015 6:18:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Where are these moron FFL's getting there info?? You never had to register a lower as a pistol unless it was marked as a pistol lower or you told them it was going to be a pistol.
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Posted: 1/13/2015 9:30:39 PM EDT
[#29]
So if you buy a stripped lower and build it into a pistol do you need to register it with the state if it hasn't been already?
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Posted: 1/14/2015 1:20:53 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where are these moron FFL's getting there info?? You never had to register a lower as a pistol unless it was marked as a pistol lower or you told them it was going to be a pistol. Thats also not true at all. Being marked pistol means nothing, if it is not assembled as a complete pistol or a complete rifle at the time of transfer it is still a receiver, period. And if a dealer is bringing in receivers and transferring them as pistols they will eventually get slapped by atf especially if they are not a type 7 or 10. On their books its going to look like they are taking stripped lowers and assembling them into guns and then they would owe tax on them if they made 50 in a year and would also need to engrave their info. |
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Posted: 1/14/2015 1:22:20 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So if you buy a stripped lower and build it into a pistol do you need to register it with the state if it hasn't been already? No. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 1:46:35 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: register a stripped lower as "other", caliber "multi". Question 18. Type of Firearm(s): Check all boxes that apply. "other" refers to frames, receivers and other firearms that are not either handguns or long guns (rifles or shotguns), such as firearms having a pistol grip that expel a shotgun shell, or National Firearms Act (NFA) firearms. |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 12:34:38 AM EDT
[#33]
It even says right in the directions what it means. Like the part where it says that even if it can only be built into a rifle or shotgun, it is still not yet a rifle or shotgun and therefore an other.
Gunstore employees, and even worse, managers, assistant managers, and shift leads not even bothering to read the instructions on the 4473, when it's right in their hands pisses me off. It's these idiots that give the rest of us a bad name... or maybe they make some of us look better. It's amazing how many dealers and employees don't know that there has been information about private party transfers in the ATF newsletter and in an open letter to all dealers. This was months ago, and one I think was dated over a year ago as states started looking at requiring universal background checks like WA just did. You can sign up to receive all these as emails when they come out. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:55:22 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow....ten years AFTER the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994 sun sets, it is STILL a mess? I suppose if one WANTED to do a CYA, if ya were going to do a pistol build, then the "logical" method would be to fill out the "pistol registration form" also. Granted, the 4473's have changed since I bought my lowers. Stripped lowers are stripped lowers, neither pistol nor a rifle. I don't even recall what I did when the ban sun set in 04 and AR pistol builds were legal. Aside from a confirmed stripped lower (left factory that way)....I don't recall ever registering my build. It's bad enough when the DOL will not give advice. Sounds like something to contact the state AG office since it is an interpretation, if it is an RCW or WAC involved. The 'mess' is due to people going overboard with 'ideas' about what makes a reciever legit for building into a pistol - none of it is related to the AWB, it's all about the ATF's interpretation of the 68-amended NFA... Various *false* rumors aside (has to say 'pistol' on the side (which you will pay a premium for), has to be transferred through NICS as a pistol, has to be registered with the state as one, etc), the ATF's official position is that the ONLY requirement is 'it has to never have been built into a rifle before'... Which means that any new stripped lower is OK for building into a pistol, regardless of the other crap... Just make sure that the first config you put it into, is that of a pistol. Paranoid types may then advise that you *never* turn it into anything else, but the ATF actually considers it OK to make a gun that was originally a 'pistol' into a rifle and vice-versa, so long as it is never wearing both a short-barrel and a shoulder stock at the same time... But ONLY if it was a pistol in it's first, original build. That said, the 'urban legends' about what you have to 'do' to make a receiver pistol legal are just about as insufferably indestructible as that idiotic Army wives-tale about it being a war-crime to shoot enemy infantry with a .50cal (and all the 'but it's OK to target their uniforms, that's 'equipment' rubbish that goes with it).... |
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