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Posted: 9/5/2014 11:34:50 PM EDT
As reported by Waguns forum, KOMO news will host a (televised?) town hall event next week at their TV studio in Seattle. The event is first-come, first-serve, so anyone who wishes to attend should try and make it, lest the 594 supporters crowd the event and prevent anyone else from getting in - a very real possibility given that 594's support is almost universally originating from the Seattle metro area.

KOMO is taking questions online ahead of the event, but really no way to know what will be asked at the event, or if KOMO will even play fair (probably not).

http://www.komonews.com/tv/events/KOMO-to-host-Town-Hall-Special-Guns-in-America-274134031.html

And of course, KOMO made it a point to mention this:

Note: No weapons will be allowed on the premises. Metal detectors will be in place.
View Quote


So don't bother bringing in your Kroger/Fred Meyer carry piece.
Link Posted: 9/6/2014 1:18:01 AM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 9/6/2014 2:30:58 AM EDT
[#2]
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tag

Anyone planning on being there?
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What day?
Link Posted: 9/6/2014 12:00:03 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:


What day?
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tag

Anyone planning on being there?


What day?


Friday Sept 12.
Link Posted: 9/7/2014 3:56:46 AM EDT
[#4]
I'll go.  Anyone up for carpooling from the Olympia/Lacey, WA area?
Link Posted: 9/7/2014 9:04:21 PM EDT
[#5]
I can't make it, or else I would be there to ask a few questions.  I’ll be in MN on that date.  Can someone ensure that these questions are asked for me?  Thanks.

I-594 would define a transfer as “the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.”

Some temporary transfers are exempt, but adult friends letting each other use their firearms at a rifle range for informal target shooting are not exempt unless one of them is a licensed dealer.  

Question #1.  Why does I-594 make shooting a friend’s gun a gross misdemeanor; 2nd time a felony?

Question #2.  Why are unlicensed buyers expected to be vetted each time they buy a gun, but licensed dealers are only vetted every year during license renewal?  Why no exception for CPL holders?  RCW 9.41.110(5)a

Question #3.  Why is there no cap on the fee allowed for the background check?  

Question #4.  If the state is going to require that their residents obtain a background check from a dealer licensed by the state, then why is the state not requiring that their dealers do so for a reasonable fee?  The dealer would be under no obligation to facilitate the transfer.  

Someone should bring a camcorder, tape the entire meeting and post it on YouTube.

Thanks.
Randy Bragge
[email protected]
(360) 440-5889
Link Posted: 9/8/2014 2:18:24 AM EDT
[#6]
Is the state planning on waiving the "Use Tax" placed on all weapons transferred by a dealer?
Link Posted: 9/8/2014 9:21:03 AM EDT
[#7]
The people who plan on being at the meeting and speaking out really need to read the Initiative and understand it.

I-594 text

NEW SECTION.Sec.10.
A new section is added to chapter 82.08
RCW to read as follows:

The tax imposed by RCW 82.08.020 does not apply to the sale or
transfer of any firearms between two unlicensed persons if the
unlicensed persons have complied with all background check
requirements of chapter 9.41 RCW.
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Randy
Link Posted: 9/8/2014 10:15:53 AM EDT
[#8]
Here is a synopsis of I-594 and how it affects WA law if it passes.  Please let me know if I made any mistakes.  It is a good idea to print out the entire text of I-594 and read Sections 3 and 4 especially.

Section 1.  Why the law should be changed; background checks required for all transfers with some exceptions.

Section 2.  Defines “gun” as a firearm, defines sale, licensed dealer, unlicensed person and transfer.  A transfer would be defined as “the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.”

Section 3.  RCW 9.41 is amended to require background checks for any gun sale/transfer between unlicensed persons.  The gun is brought to the dealer so that the buyer can fill out the forms normally required for a sale from the dealer’s inventory.  If the buyer passes NICS, the transfer can take place, if not, then the transfer doesn’t take place.  Dealer may charge a fee for the background check.  No tax is collected by the dealer.  The dealer is not required to perform the background check on demand of the buyer.

Section 3 does not apply to;

1) Bona fide gifts between family members such as spouses, domestic partners, parents, children, siblings, grandparents, grandchildren, nieces, nephews, first cousins, aunts, and uncles.

2) Antique firearms.

3) Temporary transfers to prevent imminent harm as long as the person is not prohibited by federal law.

4) Police and military on duty.

5) Transfer to and from a licensed gunsmith for repairs.

6) A temporary transfer is allowed;

a. Between spouses and domestic partners.
b. At established shooting ranges if the gun is kept at the range at all times.
c. At a competition or performance.
d. To a child for hunting, sporting or educational purposes.
e. While hunting.
f. Persons who inherit in accordance with state law.

Section 4.  RCW 9.41 is amended to require that gun dealers do not transfer a gun to a person until the NICS is satisfactory or 10 to 60 (no WA ID) days have elapsed.

Section 5.  Requires a dealer to comply with the requirements of section 4.

Section 6.  Requires that any gun sale taking place in WA are subject to the required background checks.

Section 7.  Non-residents are subject to the background checks when buying a gun in WA.

Section 8.  The Department of Licensing may adopt rules to enforce this law.

Section 9.  Violation of Section 3 is a gross misdemeanor, a 2nd offense is a class C felony.  It is an affirmative defense that the transfer was an exception listed in sections 3 or 4.

Section 10.  The tax imposed by RCW 82.08.020 does not apply.

Section 11.  Taxes not collected for a private sale.

Section 12.  If any section of this act is determined to be invalid, the rest shall remain valid.
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The parts bold /underlined are the ones I've yet to get an explanation from the WAGR for.

Randy
Link Posted: 9/8/2014 12:52:35 PM EDT
[#9]
Regarding Sec 3, 6b... WAGR/594 spokesperson Cheryl Stumbo has already made it clear that she does NOT want people shooting on public land. Part of 594 is a veiled attempt to severely restrict shooting on public land, and move all recreational shooting towards private ranges.

For her statement, see the videos from the Seattle Times 591/594 debates - click on the second video and skip to the 48:00 mark. Link here: http://blogs.seattletimes.com/opinionnw/2014/06/27/video-a-debate-about-gun-initiatives-i-591-and-i-594/

Brian Judy talks about how thousands of shooters every weekend go to public lands to shoot. In a state with millions of people and vast swaths of rural land, this is a very realistic figure. Cheryl Stumbo from WAGR/594 says, "I don't know about thousands, but I would suggest it's safer for you to go to a range where it's set up to be safe, if you want to go out on public lands to shoot guns, then go out to go hunting."

Seems pretty obvious at that point why Sec 3, 6b only makes an exemption for "licensed ranges" - because whoever wrote this portion of the bill does not want you shooting on public lands, or even established public outdoor ranges - i.e. a "non-licensed" range.
Link Posted: 9/8/2014 12:54:20 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I can't make it, or else I would be there to ask a few questions.  I’ll be in MN on that date.  Can someone ensure that these questions are asked for me?  Thanks.

I-594 would define a transfer as “the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.”

Some temporary transfers are exempt, but adult friends letting each other use their firearms at a rifle range for informal target shooting are not exempt unless one of them is a licensed dealer.  

Question #1.  Why does I-594 make shooting a friend’s gun a gross misdemeanor; 2nd time a felony?

Question #2.  Why are unlicensed buyers expected to be vetted each time they buy a gun, but licensed dealers are only vetted every year during license renewal?  Why no exception for CPL holders?  RCW 9.41.110(5)a

Question #3.  Why is there no cap on the fee allowed for the background check?  

Question #4.  If the state is going to require that their residents obtain a background check from a dealer licensed by the state, then why is the state not requiring that their dealers do so for a reasonable fee?  The dealer would be under no obligation to facilitate the transfer.  

Someone should bring a camcorder, tape the entire meeting and post it on YouTube.

Thanks.
Randy Bragge
[email protected]
(360) 440-5889
View Quote


Question #5.  Why do all the police associations in washington state oppose 594 and support 591?

Question #6.  If 594 is such simple legislation as supporters claim, why is it 18 pages long?
Link Posted: 9/8/2014 12:57:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Regarding Sec 3, 6b... WAGR/594 spokesperson Cheryl Stumbo has already made it clear that she does NOT want people shooting on public land. Part of 594 is a veiled attempt to severely restrict shooting on public land, and move all recreational shooting towards private ranges.

For her statement, see the videos from the Seattle Times 591/594 debates - click on the second video and skip to the 48:00 mark. Link here: http://blogs.seattletimes.com/opinionnw/2014/06/27/video-a-debate-about-gun-initiatives-i-591-and-i-594/

Brian Judy talks about how thousands of shooters every weekend go to public lands to shoot. In a state with millions of people and vast swaths of rural land, this is a very realistic figure. Cheryl Stumbo from WAGR/594 says, "I don't know about thousands, but I would suggest it's safer for you to go to a range where it's set up to be safe, if you want to go out on public lands to shoot guns, then go out to go hunting."

Seems pretty obvious at that point why Sec 3, 6b only makes an exemption for "licensed ranges" - because whoever wrote this portion of the bill does not want you shooting on public lands, or even established public outdoor ranges - i.e. a "non-licensed" range.
View Quote


yep, they would shut down the wenas range. it's not licensed, but it's on public land. the local government installed concrete tables for the explicit use as a shooting range.
Link Posted: 9/8/2014 1:56:51 PM EDT
[#12]
I didn't know you could get a "license" for a range.  Never heard of such a thing.  

You can operate a business, maybe get a business license to operate a range?

You can form a club, maybe get a non-prof corp that uses public land for its shoots?

I mean, as far as I understand, there are no licensing nor regulations for firing in areas where it is not prohibited.
In places where firing is prohibited, such as inner-city indoor ranges, the municipality typically makes an exemption for the business when requested and approved, but that's not licensing unless we're counting the business license?

Anyone have deeper insight?
Link Posted: 9/8/2014 2:19:36 PM EDT
[#13]
That's the only thing I can think they mean, a business license. However it would probably not be the first time that some out of state interest wrote legislation based on the assumption that certain state agencies and licensing bodies exist, only later on to find out that they simply don't.

Just yet another element of 594 that is vague, mysterious, and open to interpretation - i.e. BAD LAW.
Link Posted: 9/8/2014 9:05:01 PM EDT
[#14]
In, though late to the party.

Randy, thank you for the info. I hope we can get a good turnout.

ETA: Does "antique firearm" in exemption 2) have a legal definition?  Never mind, it's spelled out in the text of the initiative. RIF.

The transfer taxes levied, and the fees for background checks, impose an undue burden on the poor, who can now buy a gun in a face-to-face transfer without fee.

Link Posted: 9/8/2014 9:46:31 PM EDT
[#15]
Anyone going?  So far all I see are posts, no commitment.
Link Posted: 9/8/2014 9:49:04 PM EDT
[#16]
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Anyone going?  So far all I see are posts.
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I'll be there.

591 text

They got us beat 19 to 1 on page count, and 87 to 1 on convoluted jackassery.
Link Posted: 9/8/2014 9:49:43 PM EDT
[#17]
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I'll be there.
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Anyone going?  So far all I see are posts.


I'll be there.


Ditto.  And offering rides for up to three from Olympia/Lacey, WA.  Plan on taking half the day off.
Link Posted: 9/8/2014 11:35:23 PM EDT
[#18]
Guys who are going please remember to wear your best attire as well! Suits and ties, or shirts and slacks at the very least. No torn up jeans, camo, 2A shirts, NRA hats, ect.
Link Posted: 9/9/2014 12:20:31 AM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:
I didn't know you could get a "license" for a range.  Never heard of such a thing.  
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I didn't know you could get a "license" for a range.  Never heard of such a thing.  

The text of I-594 says;
established shooting range authorized by the governing body of the jurisdiction in which such range is located

As far as I know authorization is done by issuing a use permit, grandfathering or other methods.  I think "established shooting range" is not going to be one of those problem definitions.

I did see the words "licensed range" in the failed AWB that Kline and Murray tried to push for 8 years; that was a problem.

Randy
Link Posted: 9/9/2014 1:07:52 AM EDT
[#20]
...but the problem still remains, since certain activities will become prohibited on "established" outdoor ranges located on public land, simply due to the fact that they are largely ad-hoc creations and therefore probably not approved by any local authority whatsoever.

I mean, can it be an established and authorized range simply by existing within public land which is open to shooting?
Link Posted: 9/9/2014 4:06:29 AM EDT
[#21]
Question #7. If I keep my personal pistol in a locker at the local range, under I-594 my friend may use it at the range without a background check. If I keep that same pistol at home and bring it to the range, under I-594 my friend must undergo a background check when he uses it. Why?
Question #8. I own private land in a rural area where shooting is legal. The grandparents come to visit. Grandfather would like to do some clay shooting. Under I-594, I may not loan him my shotgun without a background check. But if I give my shotgun to him permanently as a gift, it does not require a background check. Why?
Question #9. Children are exempted from background checks for temporary transfers for sporting or educational purposes. Why are adults not likewise exempt?
Link Posted: 9/9/2014 8:44:20 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Question #7. If I keep my personal pistol in a locker at the local range, under I-594 my friend may use it at the range without a background check. If I keep that same pistol at home and bring it to the range, under I-594 my friend must undergo a background check when he uses it. Why?
Question #8. I own private land in a rural area where shooting is legal. The grandparents come to visit. Grandfather would like to do some clay shooting. Under I-594, I may not loan him my shotgun without a background check. But if I give my shotgun to him permanently as a gift, it does not require a background check. Why?
Question #9. Children are exempted from background checks for temporary transfers for sporting or educational purposes. Why are adults not likewise exempt?
View Quote


#9 only under direct supervisor and control.  Good luck trying to hunt along side your kid. Easy to say that you could not have control while you yourself are hunting so it is one or the other. Think about bird hunting stretched across a field. Or trying to flush out a deer from two sides of a canyon, not happening.
This is just bad, very bad.
Link Posted: 9/9/2014 9:22:47 AM EDT
[#23]
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tag

Anyone planning on being there?
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Can't.  I'll be in Rome, Italy.
Link Posted: 9/9/2014 1:52:31 PM EDT
[#24]
#10, the Bellingham retired police chief in the commercial says that background checks have stopped 40,000 gun purchases, how many of those 40,000 have been prosecuted?  

#11 why not all 40,000?.....Oh, the similar name problem, the 40,000 is lie.


Question on the hunting to those in the know. Go hunting with your 17 y/o kid, he/she can't legally own a gun so you do. Two days into hunting and you have control and supervision of kid, so that means next to you. you kid turns 18, he/she is now legally an adult. Do you have drive to town and do a transfer? Or is this part of the change in laws under the "hunting provisions"


Also this seems to cover many parts of the RCW's, and change a few of the current RCW's, I thought an initiative could only address one issue? Or is this an all encompassing "one issue"  

The devil is in the details of this initiative, harp on that.

Can't go, that work thing gets in the way.

What is the air time, I searched on my DirectTV guide and could not find it.
Link Posted: 9/9/2014 3:56:31 PM EDT
[#25]
Link Posted: 9/9/2014 11:49:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Someone needs to make it a point that WACOPS represents 103 Washington police unions and guilds, and that they oppose I-594. Something like...

"If I-594 is supposedly such a good bill, then why does the Washington Council of Police & Sheriffs, which represents over 100 Washington state police unions, oppose it?"
Link Posted: 9/9/2014 11:54:04 PM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 9/10/2014 11:04:49 PM EDT
[#28]
In case anyone didn't see this on KOMO's page and still think it is a first come first served........

Clarification: you must register to be in the audience. You can do so by sending an email with your contact information to: townhall (at) komotv.com
Link Posted: 9/11/2014 2:00:25 AM EDT
[#29]
Myself and two other friends will be there, let's show support and do good things everyone!
Link Posted: 9/11/2014 2:28:39 AM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 9/11/2014 12:05:25 PM EDT
[#31]
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Don't forget to register!

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Myself and two other friends will be there, let's show support and do good things everyone!


Don't forget to register!



I emailed them last night and got a seat today.

I also have 3 pro-2A signs left over from Olympia, which I'll bring for folks showing support outside.

Link Posted: 9/11/2014 1:59:08 PM EDT
[#32]
I've got my confirmation already!
Link Posted: 9/11/2014 6:40:02 PM EDT
[#33]
Wear something that can be seen on camera in support of the I591 and against I594.  

Hats will need to be taken off, it will be a lighting issue, and in a bygone era a common action.

Button, tie tack or tie, face paint.
Link Posted: 9/11/2014 8:01:54 PM EDT
[#34]
Guaranteed to be slanted
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 4:53:23 AM EDT
[#35]
sunday best, people. don't be the stereotypical gun owner and show up in tacticool camo or wifebeater.
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 11:53:45 AM EDT
[#36]
what if that IS your Sunday best?  I've been to church in camo more than once.....
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 1:06:24 PM EDT
[#37]


Then go to Target and buy a pair of khakis and black polo shirt.

Minimum attire should be a polo shirt and khakis.  If you have a nice dress shirt then that would work.

Link Posted: 9/12/2014 9:06:23 PM EDT
[#38]
Standing by for doors to open.
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 9:27:06 PM EDT
[#39]
Good luck Gentleman!
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 10:05:43 PM EDT
[#40]
Here's a link to the live feed, looks like it's running test pattern now, but should be up by the time the meeting starts.

http://www.komonews.com/live
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 10:21:45 PM EDT
[#41]
Supposed to start at 7pm PST?  Still seeing a test pattern here in Minnesota at 9:21 pm CST.

Randy
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 10:26:01 PM EDT
[#42]
Current time 1924
Through screening awaiting seat
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 10:35:47 PM EDT
[#43]
Seated in studio
Space for 84 in audience
A few obvious 591 supporters.

Eta directors briefing 2000 start

Thats 8pm for you civilians
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 10:49:08 PM EDT
[#44]
They are encouraging online participation. Get that live feed going. Hit any polls. Ask questions

3 empty seats
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 11:09:29 PM EDT
[#45]
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 11:19:54 PM EDT
[#46]
He is doing a great job
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 11:28:01 PM EDT
[#47]
Wow.  I knew Fascitelli was stupid, but geez....
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 11:29:59 PM EDT
[#48]
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 11:30:58 PM EDT
[#49]
He is kicking ass
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 11:39:29 PM EDT
[#50]
Somebody search the pdf for the word intent
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