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Posted: 6/28/2014 1:26:38 PM EDT
[#1]
Just dropping by to see what condition our condition is in!
ETA: I now own page 45! |
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Posted: 6/28/2014 5:28:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just dropping by to see what condition our condition is in!
ETA: I now own page 45! Too bad, brah! You can't own a page with an edit. |
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Posted: 6/28/2014 7:26:56 PM EDT
[#3]
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Daniel Defense MK18 ordered through Lynnwood Gun. Just sent in my form 4 on one of these. My LGS got two of them in.
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Posted: 6/29/2014 2:22:24 AM EDT
[#4]
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Too bad, brah! You can't own a page with an edit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just dropping by to see what condition our condition is in!
ETA: I now own page 45! Too bad, brah! You can't own a page with an edit. Who says? 
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Posted: 6/29/2014 3:11:02 AM EDT
[#5]
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Who says? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just dropping by to see what condition our condition is in!
ETA: I now own page 45! Too bad, brah! You can't own a page with an edit. Who says? Everyone...that's just the way it works. |
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Posted: 6/29/2014 9:48:19 AM EDT
[#6]
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Everyone...that's just the way it works. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just dropping by to see what condition our condition is in!
ETA: I now own page 45! Too bad, brah! You can't own a page with an edit. Who says? Everyone...that's just the way it works. Well shit then ... ETA: I don't like edits! |
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Posted: 6/29/2014 11:43:57 AM EDT
[#7]
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Well shit then ... ETA: I don't like edits! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just dropping by to see what condition our condition is in!
ETA: I now own page 45! Too bad, brah! You can't own a page with an edit. Who says? Everyone...that's just the way it works. Well shit then ... ETA: I don't like edits! Just camp this thread until you see post 1125, then post and own page 46! |
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Posted: 7/2/2014 7:08:47 PM EDT
[#8]
Not trying to rain on anyones parade...but.. I run a small manufacturer and store and the info we are getting is... if you file a form 1 on a rifle that is already in your possession to convert to an SBR than you will still be violating state law. They have tied the hands of the manufactures in this state by the way they worded the law. It state that no SBRs can be "manufactured" in this state for local sale. Only sales to LE, Military and export out of the state. SO if you are going to do a Form 1 and convert to a SBR, that form is also classified as "Manufacturing". Washington Arms Collector has an article at the below link. Just putting this out there so people can cover their ass.
/SBR Legal analysis |
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Posted: 7/2/2014 7:17:27 PM EDT
[#9]
If they reject it they reject it, and we will have to cross that bridge when we get to it.
The people that are making the make vs manufacturing argument are basing that analysis on federal definitions that do not actually exist in the RCW's. It depends on how the state decides to interpret it in absence of definitions, the intent of the law is very clear however and that often does count for something. |
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Posted: 7/2/2014 7:33:06 PM EDT
[#10]
the law as written also still technically forbids selling sbrs, it allows us to 'aquire' them but doesn't say anywhere that I'm aware of that a business can sell them...
so really we just have to wait and see how this all plays out, and definitely push for clarified language regardless. /oh and I love the fact that the WAC article's very first point on the effective date of 5956 was incorrect... lay persons analysis indeed.. hehe ;) |
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Posted: 7/2/2014 10:20:52 PM EDT
[#11]
I can't imagine the AG would do anything other than clarify/interpret the law as to allow what it was intended to do, legalize SBR's, otherwise what would the point have been? The intent of the law is clear and I have no doubt it will be seen as such by the powers that be!
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Posted: 7/3/2014 2:29:16 PM EDT
[#12]
Actually, WA does recognize a difference between making and manufacturing.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2013-14/Pdf/Bill%20Reports/Senate/5956%20SBA%20LAW%2014.pdf Under the NFA, people may make their own NFA firearm by applying to ATF and meeting
certain requirements. These requirements include obtaining prior approval and registration of the item, obtaining a certification from the chief of the local law enforcement agency, undergoing a background check, and paying a $200 tax on the item. It's the only time "make" or "making" is used in any of the available SBR bill text I have seen. The law itself also specifically refers to federal definitions when it says "in accordance with federal law." Impossible to remain in "accordance" without using ATF/federal definitions, is it not? The 'manufacturing' referenced in Section 1(1) certainly appears to be using the ATF definition (business purpose) as well, which is why subsection 3 specifically exempts people manufacturing for the gov, military, blah blah blah. All of that said, what laws actually say doesn't appear to matter anymore, so by the end of this process the AG may ban everything but BB guns. I'm still trying to figure out why ATF thinks, if they indeed do, that the AG of Washington has the authority to ban activities in other states. That is....highly questionable and I'm not seeing any precedent for it. If the AG does indeed have that power, I'm more than a little concerned about what the AG of California might do to us. If they do not have that power, then there is no reason the SBR couldn't be made in OR or ID and then "transported" and "possessed" back into WA as a completed SBR. I'm sure this is a real head-scratcher for the ATF. Is there any state in the union in which making SBRs/SBSs is illegal, but buying/owning them is legal? |
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Posted: 7/31/2014 11:29:15 PM EDT
[#13]
They are approving form 1s. I know a guy who got his back approved the other day. Filed online back in march. Already engraved as well, 100% legal complete SBR lower.
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Posted: 8/1/2014 1:54:50 AM EDT
[#14]
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They are approving form 1s. I know a guy who got his back approved the other day. Filed online back in march. Already engraved as well, 100% legal complete SBR lower. If you post pictures or redacted scans of his paperwork I will submit my Form 1 tomorrow. |
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Posted: 8/1/2014 4:06:12 AM EDT
[#15]
I thought the attorney general or someone said that SBRs were still illegal to manufacture yourself due to the phrasing in the bill? Was that ever sorted out? Could you get prosecuted for having an approved form 1?
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Posted: 8/1/2014 4:23:28 AM EDT
[#16]
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If you post pictures or redacted scans of his paperwork I will submit my Form 1 tomorrow. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They are approving form 1s. I know a guy who got his back approved the other day. Filed online back in march. Already engraved as well, 100% legal complete SBR lower. If you post pictures or redacted scans of his paperwork I will submit my Form 1 tomorrow. +1, ill get three of them going. |
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Posted: 8/1/2014 9:32:23 AM EDT
[#17]
I think that people are just overthinking this whole wording thing. If there was an issue about the "wording" then im pretty sure the ATF would see that in their notes and not approve his form 1. He just simply acquired his SBR. The definition of acquired is : to buy or obtain, to gain for oneself through one's actions or efforts. He did not acquire his "SBR" until after it was engraved and complete, since engraving is what completed the SBR lower and turned it into a "SBR".
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Posted: 8/1/2014 12:48:12 PM EDT
[#18]
When exactly an SBR becomes an SBR legally is kind of debatable. It's either the moment the ATF issues the stamp... the moment you get the stamp in the mail, the moment you put a short bbl on...or the moment the SBR is "complete" with respect to the bbl and engraving etc. I can see arguments for each of the above. In the end, though, so long as I get my form 1s, I don't give a crap what the legal basis is. I'm not interested in form 4ing SBRs. I want to make each and every one of them myself.
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Posted: 8/1/2014 1:52:08 PM EDT
[#19]
Not to thread hijack, but just in case people had this thread set up for alerts: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_15/564148_Are_Form_1s_being_approved_for_WA__Yes__How_do_I_know__I_just_got_one_back_.html
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Posted: 8/1/2014 2:00:02 PM EDT
[#20]
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h203/subiekid21/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140801_105611_zps58facb0c.jpg
this is not a joke they are being approved this one was submitted march 17th and approved july 29th. |
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Posted: 8/1/2014 3:18:49 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 8/1/2014 4:23:12 PM EDT
[#22]
Looks like the nail biter interpretation has some 50 cal holes in it, one engine on fire, and it's losing altitude. I guess I'll leave it up to you guys to decide when that plane has crashed into the mountain. JEKFTMFW.
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Posted: 8/2/2014 12:18:47 AM EDT
[#23]
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<a href="http://s65.photobucket.com/user/subiekid21/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140801_105611_zps58facb0c.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h203/subiekid21/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140801_105611_zps58facb0c.jpg</a> this is not a joke they are being approved this one was submitted march 17th and approved july 29th. Alright, Ill have mine in the mail by Monday. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 12:26:38 AM EDT
[#24]
No no no!!! E-FILE!!!
A paper form 1 will definitely be a 6+ month wait.... |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 2:31:25 AM EDT
[#25]
Interesting his was submitted March 17th when the law wasn't even in effect yet, surprised he didn't get bounced for that, instead he got approved quickly. I still think it's jacked that efile submissions get pushed through so much faster than Form 1's, they ought to be lined up in the order received, period...
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Posted: 8/2/2014 1:51:16 PM EDT
[#26]
Maybe it's a sign that we shouldn't be such a bunch of paranoid pussies when it comes to dealing with these things? Some people seem to be desperately searching for reasons / excuses for not being able to do things. I'm guilty of this myself, I didn't mail my form 1s until the day the law went into effect. Now I'm embarrassed that I allowed paranoid group think, from the internet of all places, to effect my thinking on these issues. Next time I'll just do what is right based on the law and evidence about how "the system" works.
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Posted: 8/3/2014 2:36:10 AM EDT
[#27]
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Interesting his was submitted March 17th when the law wasn't even in effect yet, surprised he didn't get bounced for that, instead he got approved quickly. I still think it's jacked that efile submissions get pushed through so much faster than Form 1's, they ought to be lined up in the order received, period... Someone has to enter in all the information into the computer. If they don't have to type it in, then they can process it faster. Though I agree FIFO (first in first out) should be the way .. |
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Posted: 8/3/2014 10:29:35 AM EDT
[#28]
Is what it is. At least they're being approved. Now we know what we're waiting for!
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Posted: 8/14/2014 11:00:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Wonder how long the paper Form 1's are going to take? Would be a nice surprise if it they showed up in less than a year...
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Posted: 8/15/2014 12:06:11 AM EDT
[#30]
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Wonder how long the paper Form 1's are going to take? Would be a nice surprise if it they showed up in less than a year... I think the NFA tracker has them in the 4-6 month range. I submitted a paper one 2 days before I efiled another, so we'll see. I just wish I could remember which serial # I snail mailed, so I could go ahead and efile the other [stripped lower]. |
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Posted: 9/19/2014 12:16:25 AM EDT
[#31]
Anymore WA guys getting their Form 1's back yet?
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Posted: 9/19/2014 12:47:37 AM EDT
[#32]
I mailed 3 form 1s (trust) on 6/12 and all three were approved on 9/12. Haven't got the stamps/forms back yet, but it shouldn't be much longer. Wait times are definitely trending down down down...
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Posted: 9/19/2014 1:36:55 PM EDT
[#33]
It took 3 weeks for approval of my e-form 1's back in August.
Randy |
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Posted: 9/20/2014 12:45:32 AM EDT
[#34]
Mailed mine June 13th, received June 16th and went pending June 24, I've heard nothing yet. Must be on someone's shit list compared to you guys...
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Posted: 9/20/2014 1:00:15 AM EDT
[#35]
eform1 submitted on 8/19 and it was approved 9/15.
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Posted: 9/20/2014 2:33:41 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anymore WA guys getting their Form 1's back yet? |
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Posted: 9/24/2014 3:31:11 AM EDT
[#37]
Finally got mine today, Form 1 SBR on a Trust, mailed 6/13/14, received 6/16/14, check cashed 6/24/14, approved 9/08/14 and received 9/23/14! Now the Form 4's need to speed it up, weird how their all so different. Still waiting on Aero Precision to announce what new options they're offering on their mid length COP upper before ordering, otherwise I've got every single piece ready and waiting, engraving and all. Will be an 11.5" suppressed as soon as the AAC is out of jail, patience...
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Posted: 9/24/2014 3:53:49 AM EDT
[#38]
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Finally got mine today, Form 1 SBR on a Trust, mailed 6/13/14, received 6/16/14, check cashed 6/24/14, approved 9/08/14 and received 9/23/14! Now the Form 4's need to speed it up, weird how their all so different. Still waiting on Aero Precision to announce what new options they're offering on their mid length COP upper before ordering, otherwise I've got every single piece ready and waiting, engraving and all. Will be an 11.5" suppressed as soon as the AAC is out of jail, patience... 
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Posted: 9/24/2014 8:11:29 AM EDT
[#39]
Submitted two SBR eforms, different days, got them both back approved yest. 30 and 35 days, respectively.
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