I live in the state of Pennsylvania and have a license to carry but I am unsure of how or were I can place my AR/rifle in my vehicle.
I have a pickup truck so I do not have a trunk.
I've read the NRA website for my state on gun requirements but I don't seem to find how I can transport my AR-15 in my vehicle.
http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-laws/pennsylvania.aspx

I know it must be unloaded but how can I transport it? Does it not need to be in a container because I'm licensed to carry? Please help.

p.s. sorry if I've posted in the wrong section, I've tried my best to find the right 1.

The rifle has to be unloaded and the ammo has to be in a separate container.

If you have an SBR then in PA it falls under your CCW and can be loaded in a vehicle.

Does the AR-15/rifle need to also be in a container, or just the ammo?


Is an arm rest compartment classified as a container for the mag?
I don't think a 16.1" barrel or 32" collapsed is a SBR.

Check out this website. There's a lot of good information there.

I would assume an unloaded rifle in an arm rest compartment with absolutely no magazines or ammo in that compartment would be g2g.

And by your response it seems you do not know what an SBR is. An SBR is a short barreled rifle meaning any rifle with a barrel of <16". An SBR requires approval from the ATF before you can legally possess one. So your rifle is not an SBR. I advise you do some serious research on SBR's and definitions of rifles, pistols, SBRs, AOWs, and Destructive Devices. I wouldn't want to see you get in trouble for illegally possessing any of them.

ETA: I am not a lawyer and this is just my opinion and in no way any sort of legal advice.

What I said is correct then. Since my rifle is 16.1 " it is not a SBR.

What confuses me though is the container part.

Do I need to keep the gun or the mag in a container, or both?

Here's my .02....the law is often somewhat gray and has room for interpretation. If you make a valiant effort to abide by the law, many LEOs will work with you if they feel there is a potential violation. The rifle does not have to be stored in any sort of carrier as far as I know. I would personally keep ammunition in the glove box or any other vehicle supplied storage container you may have. Your next best bet would just be to have them out of reach from the firearm- let's say the firearm resting on the back row seating and your range bag with ammunition on the front seat. I've spoken with many LEOs with this exact set up, and it was completely appropriate in their eyes.

Im sure they might be like yea its cool but just say their like no I don't like it, I wanna throw you in jail because they feel your breaking the law.
Is there any official paperwork on this that I can always have for my defense?

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1) I'd like something that states the rifle needs to be unloaded but does not need to be in a container if I am licensed to carry.
2) Then i'd like some clearity on the ammo. Does it need to be in a container? What is a container?

Either of these questions paperwork would help. 1 or 2. You would really help me out if you could link me to an official answer to any of these questions.
And both would be best ofcource.
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I just want something to back me up.

There is nothing in PA law that says a rifle must be carried in a case.

There is nothing in PA law that says anything has to be out of reach of the driver.

I don't believe that having a LTCF is going to have any bearing on how you transport a rifle. Personally, I have a soft case with pockets on the side for mags. That is how I transport mine.

"A weapon is “loaded” if there is ammunition capable of being fired in the firing chamber, any cylinder of a revolver, in a nondetachable magazine, or in a detachable magazine that is attached or in the same container or compartment as the firearm."

I know that a LTCF does allow you to carry a weapon in the state of an emergency while not having 1 does not.

I have my answer on the ammo but what Im not 100% sure on now is, I don't need to keep my rifle in any container?

How about you answer this question: Why would you NOT want your rifle in some sort of case for transporting it to and from your properties or a gun range?

Are you trying to find some sort of loophole allowing you to have your AR in plain sight unloaded next to you, with a loaded magazine in your glove box so in a self defense situation you can grab the mag out of the glove box and load your AR15 rifle? And then you want paper to back you up so if a cop pulls you over you can show him this piece of paper and expect him to just let you drive away instantly?

TBH you would be MUCH better off just putting the rifle in a case like pretty much everyone else does in PA and calling it a day. I dont know why you would want a rifle in plain sight in your vehicle anyway, it's just asking for trouble or for someone to break into your vehicle.

If you are thinking about this in a defense situation, I would recommend you either build an AR pistol / SBR or just use a full size handgun as your defensive weapon in a vehicle in PA because they all fall under your CCW while a rifle does not.

Multiple members are saying they don't think you need to have the rifle in a case. If you really want some reassuring call your local PD and ask them.

If I accidentally left my case and I want to know if its illegal to not have it in a case?



Are you implying it is illegal to have the weapon without a case?



Im sure me opening my glove box takes 1 action. Grabbing the mag takes another action. Grabbing the gun takes another action, placing the mag in my firearm takes another action,loading the bolt takes another action, then placing the firearm takes another action. Thats 6 actions. I would, as would everyone else who has encountered an extremely dangerous situation who could not flee would use the hand gun they have which needs only 2 actions, first?

I would think that your rifle being in the same container as your ammo would allow you to use it much quicker then my actions,aswell (which I could surely argue). Plus I'm still trying to find out if its legal, but you won't answer this question because you think its a lop hole.


Every law abiding citizen wants proof on paper, not just what they see on a forum to tell them that they are not breaking the law. Also did you forget the court system that applies to everyone no matter what "papers" they have?



I never said I didn't want my rifle in a case and if its under my back seat then its not in plain view. Someone couldn't break into my vehicle because I'd be in the vehicle until I take it out of the vehicle when I arrive at my place of business, range, or property.

P.S. I can't believe your serous, these arguments must be from a young kid who loves conspiracies and surely you are not within a court of law acting like this.

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My question still is, I don't need to keep my rifle in any container while unloaded in a vehicle in the state of PA?

No.

Laws as written, are written to "Restrict" or "prohibit"  an action or activity.  As such, there wouldn't be any written "you can do" law.
In Pennsylvania, although you don't see it much, but they do still sell rear window gun racks. And they're not in any cases. Just in plain sight in the rear pickup windows. As such, yeah, you CAN drive around with your AR in a rear window gun rack, as long as it's unloaded and ammo in a separate container.

Thank you that law definition makes so much sense, I can't believe I didn't know that.

There is no requirement for a long gun to be cased, and there is no requirement to keep the ammo seperate.  The only requirement is that it must be unloaded.  The only wrinkle in the definition of "loaded" is for firearms with detachable magazines, loaded mags must be kept seperate from the gun.

The definition of loaded from 18 Pa.C.S. § 6102:



1. You can have the gun uncased, and the magazines in a bag/box/can/center console/glove compartment.  
2. You can have the gun cased and the magazines out in the open.
3. You can have the gun cased, and the magazines in pockets on the outside of the case.

You cannot have the magazines in the same compartment of the case as the firearm, or have both loaded magazines out in the open, and an uncased gun.  

If the magazines are in outside magazine pockets, they aren't in the same container or compartment.
You're over thinking it.

The law is saying they can't be in the same container or the same compartment.
So If I buy this case;
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/20-BH-20LO03BK
and I put the mags in the pockets right next to it, its not in the same container or compartment?
It really reads like it is 2 me. But no it isn't?

The PSP publish the Uniform Firearms Act. It is available online for free.
A great place to start would be to download this and do some reading.

The laws regarding "firearms" change depending on the weapon you have.
For example (as was mentioned) a pistol, SBR, or SBS is considered a "firearm" and is thus covered by a PA LTCF.

Long guns are a totally different story.

When in doubt....keep the mags unloaded and separated from the rifle.
End of story.

""Loaded." A firearm is loaded if the firing chamber, the nondetachable magazine or in the case of a revolver, any of the chambers of the cylinder contain ammunition capable of being fired. In the case of a firearm which utilizes a detachable magazine, the term shall mean a magazine suitable for use in said firearm which magazine contains such ammunition and has been inserted in the firearm or is in the same container or, where the container has multiple compartments, the same compartment thereof as the firearm."
http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/PA/18/II/G/61/A/6102/definitions/

So this reads that I can use this bag? --->    http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/20-BH-20LO03BK   <---


because the firearm is not in the same compartment even though its in the same container?
That is what this law writes, Im reading it correctly?

Right?

Please, is this true

Not to derail this thread too much, but I'm finishing up an AR pistol build while I'm off for the holidays and I wanted to make sure I am interpreting the law correctly.

A "firearm" is classified by:

§ 6102.  Definitions 

"Firearm."  Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol,

 revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed

action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable

This means that even though my 11.5" AR pistol will have an overall length greater than 26", it will fall under the "firearm" designation because the barrel is less than 16".

Next, since this falls under the "firearm" designation, that will enable me to carry a loaded AR pistol in the vehicle because I am a CC permit holder and fall under:

§ 6106.  Firearms not to be carried without a license.

(a)  Offense defined.--

(1)  Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place

of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

(2)  A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about

his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the 

first degree.



(b)  Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:



(11)  Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United

States or any other state.



AND



§ 6106.1.  Carrying loaded weapons other than firearms.

(a)  General rule.--Except as provided in Title 34 (relating to game), no person shall carry a loaded pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle, other than a firearm as defined in section 6102 (relating to

 definitions), in any vehicle. The provisions of this section shall not apply to persons excepted from the requirement of a license to carry firearms under section 6106(b)(1), (2), (5) or (6)

 (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license) nor shall the provisions of this section be construed to permit persons to carry firearms in a vehicle where such conduct is prohibited by

 section 6106.

Am I interpreting the law correctly?

Did the FFL check "pistol" and complete the corresponding additional paperwork?

It was designated as "Other" on the 4473 form.

ETA: It looks like the exception would fall under (15) and not (11):

(15) Any person who possesses a valid and lawfully issued license or permit to carry a firearm which has been

 issued under the laws of another state, regardless of whether a reciprocity agreement exists between the Commonwealth

 and the state under section 6109(k), provided:

  (i) The state provides a reciprocal privilege for individuals licensed to carry firearms under section 6109.

  (ii) The Attorney General has determined that the firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws of this Commonwealth.

Maybe it would be best if I called the PSP on the lawfulness of carrying it loaded, and then double check with the Game Warden to make sure their deputies understand the exceptions.  I'm pessimistic to say the least, but I want to make sure I am playing by the rules.  Anyone want to bet I get two different answers form the aforementioned branches?

Unfortunately my expertise ends at that "other" statement.
"Firearms" as specified in the UFA can be carried loaded on or about your person with a valid LTCF or permit recognized from another state. This included being loaded in the vehicle.
So, a SBR, SBS, pistol, or AR "Pistol" would fall into this category.

I would hate to have a weapon (pistol or SBR) built on an "other" lower and have someone get pissy about the terminology.

I am sure someone like SteveInPA or another member will come along shortly and provide more details.

Either way, kudos on making sure you get it right to avoid any issues.

Yes a pistol, SBS or SBR falls under the definition of firearm allowing it to be carried loaded in a vehicle with a LTCF.

There is no issue that it is an AR pistol.  "Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches"

Other is how all lower receivers are transferred under a 4473.  The receiver at the time of purchase is not a handgun, or rifle, it is just a receiver, so the "other" box is checked.  It can than be built into whichever type of firearm the purchaser chooses.   If an FFL is checking something different they are doing it wrong.

ETA:  ATF open letter on receiver transfers

Thank you, sir.  I just wanted to make sure I was following the breads crumbs properly.  Digesting some of the firearm language is sometimes a downright pain in the ass.

It isn't my intention to carry a loaded AR pistol at all times.  I was more or less concerned of its legality should Pennsylvania declare a State of Emergency.  

You don't have to do anything.  Just build it.   There is no pistol registration, just a transfer database.

Having never built from a stripped lower before I never went down this road.
Thanks for the info.