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Posted: 10/19/2014 9:36:04 PM EDT
Troy Pump AR for PA hunting?
ETA on 11/18: Want to change the direction of this thread to include posting of your strait pull non-semi hunting ARs in PA. What method are you using? Game taken? Any hassles by wardens? |
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Posted: 10/19/2014 11:09:16 PM EDT
[#1]
I don't see why it would be illegal. It is manually operated, essentially no different than the old remington gamemaster 30-06 pumps. The only thing I think would be questionable would be magazine limits.
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Posted: 10/20/2014 12:56:15 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't see why it would be illegal. It is manually operated, essentially no different than the old remington gamemaster 30-06 pumps. The only thing I think would be questionable would be magazine limits. Well there are 5 round mags out there, so that shouldn't be too much of a problem. The whole idea seems wrong though. 
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Posted: 10/20/2014 7:30:10 AM EDT
[#3]
I personally would rather get a standard AR with a gas block you can turn off. OR maybe an extra carrier with no gas key for us for hunting (assuming thats legal)
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Posted: 10/20/2014 1:56:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I personally would rather get a standard AR with a gas block you can turn off. OR maybe an extra carrier with no gas key for us for hunting (assuming thats legal) Agreed. I made a comment a while ago about plans to use a dedicated single shot upper (gas block reversed and no gas tube) and guys said that would not be good enough for wardens. I put this out there to follow up on the idea given I'd like to do some legal hunting with a suppressed 300BLK without having to buy a new rifle. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 3:39:08 PM EDT
[#5]
More to the point we need to hammer on the legislators to get the whole ban on semi auto rifles erased so we don't have to try to get around this nonsense. No other state has this problem so neither should we. Apparently too many people are stuck on the defeatist "never gonna happen" bullshit.
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Posted: 10/20/2014 6:41:03 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agreed. I made a comment a while ago about plans to use a dedicated single shot upper (gas block reversed and no gas tube) and guys said that would not be good enough for wardens. I put this out there to follow up on the idea given I'd like to do some legal hunting with a suppressed 300BLK without having to buy a new rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I personally would rather get a standard AR with a gas block you can turn off. OR maybe an extra carrier with no gas key for us for hunting (assuming thats legal) Agreed. I made a comment a while ago about plans to use a dedicated single shot upper (gas block reversed and no gas tube) and guys said that would not be good enough for wardens. I put this out there to follow up on the idea given I'd like to do some legal hunting with a suppressed 300BLK without having to buy a new rifle. That would be perfectly fine. The answer I received was that as long as it required tools to reestablish semi auto function, it was good to go. This means one of those adjustable gas tubes with the allen wrench keys would be fine. A reversed gas block would definitely be satisfactory. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 6:42:42 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
More to the point we need to hammer on the legislators to get the whole ban on semi auto rifles erased so we don't have to try to get around this nonsense. No other state has this problem so neither should we. Apparently too many people are stuck on the defeatist "never gonna happen" bullshit. I hate the defeatist attitude too, but it's a numbers game. There are too many old opinionated asshole fudd's in PA for this to ever make it through the legislature. Just look at Sunday hunting... and up until recently the flintlock vs. inline muzzleloader debate. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 9:04:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That would be perfectly fine. The answer I received was that as long as it required tools to reestablish semi auto function, it was good to go. This means one of those adjustable gas tubes with the allen wrench keys would be fine. A reversed gas block would definitely be satisfactory. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I personally would rather get a standard AR with a gas block you can turn off. OR maybe an extra carrier with no gas key for us for hunting (assuming thats legal) Agreed. I made a comment a while ago about plans to use a dedicated single shot upper (gas block reversed and no gas tube) and guys said that would not be good enough for wardens. I put this out there to follow up on the idea given I'd like to do some legal hunting with a suppressed 300BLK without having to buy a new rifle. That would be perfectly fine. The answer I received was that as long as it required tools to reestablish semi auto function, it was good to go. This means one of those adjustable gas tubes with the allen wrench keys would be fine. A reversed gas block would definitely be satisfactory. 12" 458 socom prob half way through wait for Lane 458 suppressor... may use this. 
500 grainers 
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Posted: 10/21/2014 12:15:26 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't see why it would be illegal. It is manually operated, essentially no different than the old remington gamemaster 30-06 pumps. The only thing I think would be questionable would be magazine limits. What Mag limits? I do not think there are mag limits on manually operated firearms at least for deer and bear. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 12:21:56 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What Mag limits? I do not think there are mag limits on manually operated firearms at least for deer and bear. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't see why it would be illegal. It is manually operated, essentially no different than the old remington gamemaster 30-06 pumps. The only thing I think would be questionable would be magazine limits. What Mag limits? I do not think there are mag limits on manually operated firearms at least for deer and bear. I never heard of mag limits for big game either. Plenty of guys rolling around the woods with Amish machine guns (Rem 760/7600's) and 10 rnd mags. PA really needs to step it up. The only decent rule where PA comes ahead is the lack of a prohibition on suppressed hunting. Not to say a WCO won't give you shit for hunting with a can though since many don't know it's legal. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 12:47:52 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never heard of mag limits for big game either. Plenty of guys rolling around the woods with Amish machine guns (Rem 760/7600's) and 10 rnd mags. PA really needs to step it up. The only decent rule where PA comes ahead is the lack of a prohibition on suppressed hunting. Not to say a WCO won't give you shit for hunting with a can though since many don't know it's legal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't see why it would be illegal. It is manually operated, essentially no different than the old remington gamemaster 30-06 pumps. The only thing I think would be questionable would be magazine limits. What Mag limits? I do not think there are mag limits on manually operated firearms at least for deer and bear. I never heard of mag limits for big game either. Plenty of guys rolling around the woods with Amish machine guns (Rem 760/7600's) and 10 rnd mags. PA really needs to step it up. The only decent rule where PA comes ahead is the lack of a prohibition on suppressed hunting. Not to say a WCO won't give you shit for hunting with a can though since many don't know it's legal. LOL! I use an Amish Machine Gun, never heard that term, but I like it. Rem 760 with a ten shot mag. The Game wardens have seen me with and never said a thing. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 11:21:26 AM EDT
[#12]
so just to clarify, if i take my ar and remove the gas tube, i should be able to hunt with it? also, who could I call just to clarify that this is legal?
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Posted: 10/21/2014 12:10:45 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so just to clarify, if i take my ar and remove the gas tube, i should be able to hunt with it? also, who could I call just to clarify that this is legal? You can call Fish and Game, but the handbook spells out the definition of manually operated firearm (or used to anyways). I'm sure it's codified in state law as well somewhere since hunting regulation changes must go through the legislature. ETA: I wouldn't just remove the gas tube. It's going to make a mess under the handguards/rail and obscure your view. Best bet might be to cut the gas tube about an inch or two from the gas block and crimp it. CMS |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:54:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Hunting with an AR that has been made single shot is NOT legal in PA.
There is a long thread over in PAFOA.ORG about this. The game commission interprets the law as any weapon designed to be semi auto is considered semi auto regardless of how you fiddled with it. *** just did some more reading on this subject, and stand somewhat corrected.**** Is was stated by a Deputy game warden (and he is know to be one in person ) on another thread, that Semi's that were converted in a manner that is not easily reversed were being considered single shots by most agents in the field. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 4:12:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hunting with an AR that has been made single shot is NOT legal in PA. There is a long thread over in PAFOA.ORG about this. The game commission interprets the law as any weapon designed to be semi auto is considered semi auto regardless of how you fiddled with it. *** just did some more reading on this subject, and stand somewhat corrected.**** Is was stated by a Deputy game warden (and he is know to be one in person ) on another thread, that Semi's that were converted in a manner that is not easily reversed were being considered single shots by most agents in the field. Hence to reiterate what I was told...it should require the use of tools to revert back to semi auto function in order to be considered manually operated. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:13:18 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hate the defeatist attitude too, but it's a numbers game. There are too many old opinionated asshole fudd's in PA for this to ever make it through the legislature. Just look at Sunday hunting... and up until recently the flintlock vs. inline muzzleloader debate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
More to the point we need to hammer on the legislators to get the whole ban on semi auto rifles erased so we don't have to try to get around this nonsense. No other state has this problem so neither should we. Apparently too many people are stuck on the defeatist "never gonna happen" bullshit. I hate the defeatist attitude too, but it's a numbers game. There are too many old opinionated asshole fudd's in PA for this to ever make it through the legislature. Just look at Sunday hunting... and up until recently the flintlock vs. inline muzzleloader debate. WTF is up with our side being so horrendously unpersistant and instantly discourageable? Does everyone who's a mechanic quit working on a car if the very first wrench they pick up out of the toolbox doesn't disconnect the bolts they need to? Or do you tell your kids it's OK to fail every test that they can't make an A on without studying? |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 6:16:52 PM EDT
[#17]
CMS.
My understanding is that the "law" states NO, but the agents in the field are using some judgment on the issue. This kind of goes along with the push to get semi's legalized for hunting varmints going on right now. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 6:26:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
CMS. My understanding is that the "law" states NO, but the agents in the field are using some judgment on the issue. This kind of goes along with the push to get semi's legalized for hunting varmints going on right now. Just the opposite. The law clearly says yes, but alot of old Fudd agents are saying I don't care what the law says, it looks like a semi-auto to me. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 7:16:57 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just the opposite. The law clearly says yes, but alot of old Fudd agents are saying I don't care what the law says, it looks like a semi-auto to me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
CMS. My understanding is that the "law" states NO, but the agents in the field are using some judgment on the issue. This kind of goes along with the push to get semi's legalized for hunting varmints going on right now. Just the opposite. The law clearly says yes, but alot of old Fudd agents are saying I don't care what the law says, it looks like a semi-auto to me. This. Like I said..."manually operated" is clearly defined. It's the WCO's in the field who don't know better. Same with suppressed hunting. Many don't even know suppressors are legal, yet alone that they're legal to hunt with in PA. These are the same folks who (are supposed to) enforce the law. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 10:32:09 AM EDT
[#20]
I have been trying to sort this issue out since Feb. of this year.
I have had numerous contacts with various wco's in my region and in Hburg. I have also spoken directly with the director of the Bureau of Wildlife Management upon this very subject. I have it in writing the the "stance" of the PGC is that guns once semi be PERMANENTLY converted to manual action. The Bureau of Wildlife Management has responded to my open records request and I am waiting for their response, they have only informed me that a 30 day extension is necessary due to the nature of my request. Very unofficially, the situation is that title 34 is quite clear in it's meaning regarding the definition of semiautomatic and manually operated arms. The PCG does not have the authority to legislate or interpret the law, hence the (UNWRITTEN) rule about permanent conversion is invalid for several reasons, not the least of which is that it has never been before a judge. I am hoping that this matter will be settled before the start of rifle season, but I doubt it will be. So far, the Director has been very professional and helpful in helping me understand how the PGC can create a policy that is not addressed by and appears to be in conflict with state statute. I have a feeling that the way this will be settled is by a wco issuing me a summons, or arresting me and taking the matter to court. I am willing to cooperate- any wco's out there want to make a cheap pinch for Coyote hunting with a semi in Berks? If so, pm me and we'll arrange a time and place for you to either make an arrest or write me up. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 1:26:19 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have been trying to sort this issue out since Feb. of this year. I have had numerous contacts with various wco's in my region and in Hburg. I have also spoken directly with the director of the Bureau of Wildlife Management upon this very subject. I have it in writing the the "stance" of the PGC is that guns once semi be PERMANENTLY converted to manual action. The Bureau of Wildlife Management has responded to my open records request and I am waiting for their response, they have only informed me that a 30 day extension is necessary due to the nature of my request. Very unofficially, the situation is that title 34 is quite clear in it's meaning regarding the definition of semiautomatic and manually operated arms. The PCG does not have the authority to legislate or interpret the law, hence the (UNWRITTEN) rule about permanent conversion is invalid for several reasons, not the least of which is that it has never been before a judge. I am hoping that this matter will be settled before the start of rifle season, but I doubt it will be. So far, the Director has been very professional and helpful in helping me understand how the PGC can create a policy that is not addressed by and appears to be in conflict with state statute. I have a feeling that the way this will be settled is by a wco issuing me a summons, or arresting me and taking the matter to court. I am willing to cooperate- any wco's out there want to make a cheap pinch for Coyote hunting with a semi in Berks? If so, pm me and we'll arrange a time and place for you to either make an arrest or write me up. Basically, the PA Gamer Commission does NOT answer to the legislature since they do NOT receive tax revenue. They are a government unto themselves and basically answer to no one. They do what they want, when they want. Until recently they could walk into your home and inspect your freezer, no knock, no invite just walk right in and inspect your freezer. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 9:35:35 AM EDT
[#22]
Yeah, I did some reading on that matter too. From what I can determine, wco's are bound by search and seizure laws just the same as any other police officer in the state.
They can not walk in where ever they damn well please, they have to develop probable cause like any other agency. They have a ridiculously broad tool to aid in development of cause called something like the "open fields doctrine" I might explore that whole concept a little later but for now, I want to settle this matter of making up interpretations of the law willy-nilly and then not publishing it. Just about any wco you talk to will tell you one of two things: your gun must be: A. "permanently" converted (whatever that means) or B. it has to be converted so that returning it to semi auto in the field is not possible. And here again, no one knows what that means. Given sufficient time and effort, anything could be done in the field. For fuck's sake, those 8th century peasants make complete functioning firearms of surprising quality up in the Kyber Pass using little more than crude stone knives, fire and goat skin..... What it REALLY comes down to is, the fudds that run the place are insulted, disgusted and intimidated by anything that looks like the "Black Rifle". So, instead of doing it the right way and rewriting the law (which I think was authored in 1907) through legislative process, they make up "policy" and "stance" out of whole cloth and arrogantly expect the licensed to obey. Well, I have to follow the law- and I do. Why shouldn't they? Not to mention the fact that where I hunt there have been two shootings (that I am aware of) not the least of which killed a Pa. trooper- I hunt two miles from the barracks where this happened. When I come in from the field, I want my rifle readily restored to be a useful fighting weapon. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 10:03:50 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, I did some reading on that matter too. From what I can determine, wco's are bound by search and seizure laws just the same as any other police officer in the state. They can not walk in where ever they damn well please, they have to develop probable cause like any other agency. They have a ridiculously broad tool to aid in development of cause called something like the "open fields doctrine" I might explore that whole concept a little later but for now, I want to settle this matter of making up interpretations of the law willy-nilly and then not publishing it. Just about any wco you talk to will tell you one of two things: your gun must be: A. "permanently" converted (whatever that means) or B. it has to be converted so that returning it to semi auto in the field is not possible. And here again, no one knows what that means. Given sufficient time and effort, anything could be done in the field. For fuck's sake, those 8th century peasants make complete functioning firearms of surprising quality up in the Kyber Pass using little more than crude stone knives, fire and goat skin..... What it REALLY comes down to is, the fudds that run the place are insulted, disgusted and intimidated by anything that looks like the "Black Rifle". So, instead of doing it the right way and rewriting the law (which I think was authored in 1907) through legislative process, they make up "policy" and "stance" out of whole cloth and arrogantly expect the licensed to obey. Well, I have to follow the law- and I do. Why shouldn't they? Not to mention the fact that where I hunt there have been two shootings (that I am aware of) not the least of which killed a Pa. trooper- I hunt two miles from the barracks where this happened. When I come in from the field, I want my rifle readily restored to be a useful fighting weapon. Several good points. Your right to self defense, even with your regular EDC semi auto pistol, is null and void when you go into the field? |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 11:10:18 AM EDT
[#24]
No, you may carry any pistol while you are engaged in the "highly regulated" activity of hunting.
You may not use the (semi auto) pistol to hunt or God forbid, put a finisher into a deer. I routinely carry open carry a 1911a1 in an old brown GI flap holster from 1917- on an almost as old M1936 pistol belt. You do need to have the proper license to carry firearms, though. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 12:16:32 PM EDT
[#25]
That's probably why I said "UNTIL RECENTLY". There was a big stink about it a while back. Dude just walks into your home, no warrant, no knock. I don't know about you, but I'm shooting the bastard.
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Posted: 10/25/2014 12:29:46 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, I did some reading on that matter too. From what I can determine, wco's are bound by search and seizure laws just the same as any other police officer in the state. They can not walk in where ever they damn well please, they have to develop probable cause like any other agency. They have a ridiculously broad tool to aid in development of cause called something like the "open fields doctrine" I might explore that whole concept a little later but for now, I want to settle this matter of making up interpretations of the law willy-nilly and then not publishing it. Just about any wco you talk to will tell you one of two things: your gun must be: A. "permanently" converted (whatever that means) or B. it has to be converted so that returning it to semi auto in the field is not possible. And here again, no one knows what that means. Given sufficient time and effort, anything could be done in the field. For fuck's sake, those 8th century peasants make complete functioning firearms of surprising quality up in the Kyber Pass using little more than crude stone knives, fire and goat skin..... What it REALLY comes down to is, the fudds that run the place are insulted, disgusted and intimidated by anything that looks like the "Black Rifle". So, instead of doing it the right way and rewriting the law (which I think was authored in 1907) through legislative process, they make up "policy" and "stance" out of whole cloth and arrogantly expect the licensed to obey. Well, I have to follow the law- and I do. Why shouldn't they? Not to mention the fact that where I hunt there have been two shootings (that I am aware of) not the least of which killed a Pa. trooper- I hunt two miles from the barracks where this happened. When I come in from the field, I want my rifle readily restored to be a useful fighting weapon. Not when they ARE the law. Like I said before, they receive no money from taxes. Therefore the legislature could tell them to allow semi autos for hunting. And they can tell the legislature to go pound sand because they receive no tax dollars and are independent of them. A government within a government, who'd have thunk it? I figure they'll allow semi autos for hunting when they make a reliable directed energy weapon (think phasers or blasters). Since you can't hunt with anything that casts a light upon your prey they'll be banned too. Just like they did with laser sights. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 2:09:36 PM EDT
[#27]
You may be correct. I have to look into it further. I am not comprehending how a .gov agency of any type(even one that receives no tax dollars) can disregard laws properly enacted by the Pa. legislature.
So, in their hubris, are they also legally able to dispense with annoying details like the Bill of Rights, for example? I'm hoping like hell you are incorrect and WCO's have to follow the same search and seizure law as every other agency- open fields doctrine giving them an unreasonable edge notwithstanding. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 7:26:59 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I figure they'll allow semi autos for hunting when they make a reliable directed energy weapon (think phasers or blasters). |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 12:11:11 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do we passively wait for them to get around to things? We need to remind them that they work for us, we're not their b****. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I figure they'll allow semi autos for hunting when they make a reliable directed energy weapon (think phasers or blasters). Because THEY ARE THE LAW (think Judge Dredd*). There is no appealing to the state legislature about this as the don't accept taxpayer's money. Even if the entire state house and senate were to approve semi autos for hunting, and the governor were to sign the bill, they wouldn't allow it if they didn't want to. They receive no taxpayer funds therefore they can tell the legislature to pound sand. What is the legislature going to do? Cut off funding for the PA Gamer Commission? The Gamer Commission receives it's funds from hunting license sales and merchandising. * There are actually several gamer wardens out there who think they are Judge Dredd. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 5:49:48 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because THEY ARE THE LAW (think Judge Dredd*). There is no appealing to the state legislature about this as the don't accept taxpayer's money. Even if the entire state house and senate were to approve semi autos for hunting, and the governor were to sign the bill, they wouldn't allow it if they didn't want to. They receive no taxpayer funds therefore they can tell the legislature to pound sand. What is the legislature going to do? Cut off funding for the PA Gamer Commission? The Gamer Commission receives it's funds from hunting license sales and merchandising. * There are actually several gamer wardens out there who think they are Judge Dredd. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: I figure they'll allow semi autos for hunting when they make a reliable directed energy weapon (think phasers or blasters). Because THEY ARE THE LAW (think Judge Dredd*). There is no appealing to the state legislature about this as the don't accept taxpayer's money. Even if the entire state house and senate were to approve semi autos for hunting, and the governor were to sign the bill, they wouldn't allow it if they didn't want to. They receive no taxpayer funds therefore they can tell the legislature to pound sand. What is the legislature going to do? Cut off funding for the PA Gamer Commission? The Gamer Commission receives it's funds from hunting license sales and merchandising. * There are actually several gamer wardens out there who think they are Judge Dredd. Would the new PA law empower groups to sue the Commission? Perhaps if the budget for salaries began to be depleted by legal expenses they would see the light. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 6:19:57 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would the new PA law empower groups to sue the Commission? Perhaps if the budget for salaries began to be depleted by legal expenses they would see the light. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: I figure they'll allow semi autos for hunting when they make a reliable directed energy weapon (think phasers or blasters). Because THEY ARE THE LAW (think Judge Dredd*). There is no appealing to the state legislature about this as the don't accept taxpayer's money. Even if the entire state house and senate were to approve semi autos for hunting, and the governor were to sign the bill, they wouldn't allow it if they didn't want to. They receive no taxpayer funds therefore they can tell the legislature to pound sand. What is the legislature going to do? Cut off funding for the PA Gamer Commission? The Gamer Commission receives it's funds from hunting license sales and merchandising. * There are actually several gamer wardens out there who think they are Judge Dredd. Would the new PA law empower groups to sue the Commission? Perhaps if the budget for salaries began to be depleted by legal expenses they would see the light. Why can't they now? |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 3:40:33 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would the new PA law empower groups to sue the Commission? Perhaps if the budget for salaries began to be depleted by legal expenses they would see the light. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: I figure they'll allow semi autos for hunting when they make a reliable directed energy weapon (think phasers or blasters). Because THEY ARE THE LAW (think Judge Dredd*). There is no appealing to the state legislature about this as the don't accept taxpayer's money. Even if the entire state house and senate were to approve semi autos for hunting, and the governor were to sign the bill, they wouldn't allow it if they didn't want to. They receive no taxpayer funds therefore they can tell the legislature to pound sand. What is the legislature going to do? Cut off funding for the PA Gamer Commission? The Gamer Commission receives it's funds from hunting license sales and merchandising. * There are actually several gamer wardens out there who think they are Judge Dredd. Would the new PA law empower groups to sue the Commission? Perhaps if the budget for salaries began to be depleted by legal expenses they would see the light. Well because their salaries come straight from license sales, not from tax revenue. I have an idea that might work. Everyone stop buying licenses. No licenses, no Gamer Commission, Oh sure, they'll be no hunting for a year or two, but think about how that would work. Gamer wardens not getting paid, Commissioners not getting paid, no new guns and equipment. THEN they would have to accept taxpayer money and be accountable for it and their actions. |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 4:59:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well because their salaries come straight from license sales, not from tax revenue. I have an idea that might work. Everyone stop buying licenses. No licenses, no Gamer Commission, Oh sure, they'll be no hunting for a year or two, but think about how that would work. Gamer wardens not getting paid, Commissioners not getting paid, no new guns and equipment. THEN they would have to accept taxpayer money and be accountable for it and their actions. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: I figure they'll allow semi autos for hunting when they make a reliable directed energy weapon (think phasers or blasters). Because THEY ARE THE LAW (think Judge Dredd*). There is no appealing to the state legislature about this as the don't accept taxpayer's money. Even if the entire state house and senate were to approve semi autos for hunting, and the governor were to sign the bill, they wouldn't allow it if they didn't want to. They receive no taxpayer funds therefore they can tell the legislature to pound sand. What is the legislature going to do? Cut off funding for the PA Gamer Commission? The Gamer Commission receives it's funds from hunting license sales and merchandising. * There are actually several gamer wardens out there who think they are Judge Dredd. Would the new PA law empower groups to sue the Commission? Perhaps if the budget for salaries began to be depleted by legal expenses they would see the light. Well because their salaries come straight from license sales, not from tax revenue. I have an idea that might work. Everyone stop buying licenses. No licenses, no Gamer Commission, Oh sure, they'll be no hunting for a year or two, but think about how that would work. Gamer wardens not getting paid, Commissioners not getting paid, no new guns and equipment. THEN they would have to accept taxpayer money and be accountable for it and their actions. Or just introduce a bill that rolls their proceeds and authority under the state legislature so there is at least "some" accountability within the organization. |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 6:15:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well because their salaries come straight from license sales, not from tax revenue. I have an idea that might work. Everyone stop buying licenses. No licenses, no Gamer Commission, Oh sure, they'll be no hunting for a year or two, but think about how that would work. Gamer wardens not getting paid, Commissioners not getting paid, no new guns and equipment. THEN they would have to accept taxpayer money and be accountable for it and their actions. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: I figure they'll allow semi autos for hunting when they make a reliable directed energy weapon (think phasers or blasters). Because THEY ARE THE LAW (think Judge Dredd*). There is no appealing to the state legislature about this as the don't accept taxpayer's money. Even if the entire state house and senate were to approve semi autos for hunting, and the governor were to sign the bill, they wouldn't allow it if they didn't want to. They receive no taxpayer funds therefore they can tell the legislature to pound sand. What is the legislature going to do? Cut off funding for the PA Gamer Commission? The Gamer Commission receives it's funds from hunting license sales and merchandising. * There are actually several gamer wardens out there who think they are Judge Dredd. Would the new PA law empower groups to sue the Commission? Perhaps if the budget for salaries began to be depleted by legal expenses they would see the light. Well because their salaries come straight from license sales, not from tax revenue. I have an idea that might work. Everyone stop buying licenses. No licenses, no Gamer Commission, Oh sure, they'll be no hunting for a year or two, but think about how that would work. Gamer wardens not getting paid, Commissioners not getting paid, no new guns and equipment. THEN they would have to accept taxpayer money and be accountable for it and their actions. Less than half their income is from license sales. They make just as much from gas/oil royalties and timber sales as licenses Back to the original post, manual operated firearms like straight pull bolts are legal to hunt with. Go out do it and enjoy life. Stop worrying that rogue game wardens will harass you, if it happens then deal with it, and lawyer up if necessary. |
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Posted: 10/29/2014 10:03:10 AM EDT
[#35]
I prefer not to deal with it when it happens- and it will happen because some fudd will get his panties all twisted up when he sees and AR in the field and calls in a wco.
It is better to document that that the pgc has no written records of their ridiculous "permanent" conversion rule, and that they have no authority whatever to change state statute by enforcing a rule that is no more than institutional folklore. |
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Posted: 10/29/2014 10:45:48 AM EDT
[#36]
Less than half their income is from license sales. They make just as much from gas/oil royalties and timber sales as licenses Yes, we'll let you come on to our land and tear the snot out of it to get some natural gas or timber, but don't let us catch you on Gamer Commission land with an ATV. Those are truly destructive. 
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Posted: 11/18/2014 4:09:59 PM EDT
[#37]
AR Stoner LW 16" 300BLK stainless barrel. Gas block reversed / no gas tube obvious from quick visual inspection. Will probably switch from 10x to a 1-4x or red dot and use SDN6 suppressor.
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Posted: 11/18/2014 5:38:26 PM EDT
[#38]
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AR Stoner LW 16" 300BLK stainless barrel. Gas block reversed / no gas tube obvious from quick visual inspection. Will probably switch from 10x to a 1-4x or red dot and use SDN6 suppressor. http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx166/jasonusvi/DSC_0214rs_zps27673de8.jpg Nice...but time that brake! |
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Posted: 11/18/2014 10:01:50 PM EDT
[#39]
^^^ good catch... just put it on little more than hand tight mainly as a suppressor mount.
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Posted: 11/19/2014 3:05:16 AM EDT
[#40]
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^^^ good catch... just put it on little more than hand tight mainly as a suppressor mount. Mounting it properly (to torque and with rocksett) will prevent possible baffle strikes. Not giving you a hard time...just don't want to have to see anyone go through the pain of sending a can in for repair...hoping it's repairable. Good luck hunting! I miss deer hunting in PA.... 
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Posted: 11/19/2014 1:55:23 PM EDT
[#41]
That's a very nice looking rifle, hope you knock the stuffing out of a deer with it.
I have a letter from the Director of the Bureau of Wildlife Management regarding hunting with semi-auto conversions. He states quite clearly that the "stance" of the PGC is that any semi must be PERMANENTLY converted to manual operation. Of course, the PGC does not have the authority make such a rule, but they did and if you are stopped, expect a hard time from the local WCO. I have not composed a reply yet, but counsel has advised me that I am correct and PGC has no authority to broaden a state statute. I also filed a request for further info or documentation and there is none. I have been repeatedly turned down by WCO's to write me up for this- It seems the WCO's are all bark and no bite on this one, I just can't seem to get arrested for it. If YOU get cited in the field for this, please let me know. I may be able to help you out with info you will need to defend against the charge before a Magistrate. I'll be hunting with my non-permanent-converted, manually operated FAL this year, just up in Dingman's Ferry two miles from where the trooper was recently ambushed and killed- Here's my contact # for any WCO's that would care to t.c.o.b. on this violation: 215-996-1603. Just give me a call between the 1st and the 5th of Dec. I'll meet you and you can make your arrest or write your summons. -Hemcon9 |
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Posted: 11/20/2014 4:48:11 PM EDT
[#42]
I recently decided to say "F it" and put together a straight-pull AR for hunting, so I ordered a side-charging upper and 6.5G barrel. Instead of a gas block that is reversed, how about machining a simple blank (like a sleeve bushing) with two set screws and a .750" internal diameter. Would give a clean look.
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Posted: 11/20/2014 6:50:53 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I recently decided to say "F it" and put together a straight-pull AR for hunting, so I ordered a side-charging upper and 6.5G barrel. Instead of a gas block that is reversed, how about machining a simple blank (like a sleeve bushing) with two set screws and a .750" internal diameter. Would give a clean look. Good idea... also thought about carefully partially threading the port for a set screw. |
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Posted: 12/11/2014 2:33:12 PM EDT
[#44]
Any other PA strait pull photo examples?
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