How prevalent are the NO GUN signs in AZ?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How prevalent are the NO GUN signs in AZ?

Posted: 2/9/2017 9:42:38 AM EDT

So I was reading the sticky at top about the businesses with no guns signs. Many of the posts and info seemed dated and several years old. Have attitudes of businesses and things relaxed in the last few years and with Constitutional Carry? Are there as many businesses posted as there were or has there been an increase? I guess I was kinda surprised reading the sticky about all the places posted in AZ.

I hate when people compare states as there are just so many variables, but here in Iowa after I helped to pass Shall Issue in 2010, many businesses had knee jerk reactions and the signs went up at quite a few places. After a couple years though when people became educated then things got pretty relaxed and many of the signs came down. Of course we have pretty good law here where the signs do not carry any force of law just by themselves. A business must ask you to leave and it is only a trespassing charge if you do not.

Are there any legislative efforts to enhance preemption and make the signs in AZ have no weight of law? I am interested in this since I will be moving down there soon and I currently hold an AZ CCW permit. (which I will have to update)

Thanks

Posted: 2/9/2017 10:20:03 AM EDT

[#1]

What signs ?
Concealed means no one can see it.

Posted: 2/9/2017 12:34:49 PM EDT

[#2]

Bear in mind I am a recent transplant to Arizona.came from a very anti gun eastern state where a ccw was difficult to get, but rarely did you see businesses with the no guns sign and in that state they had no force of law anyway.
As best I understand it in Arizona the signs if properly sized and located do carry force of law. And yes I see a ton of them. So far most prevalent are the second hand stores like Salvation Army and goodwill for some strange reason. As I always carry concealed ( and coming from an anti gun state I am very careful about concealment) I have pretty much decided to:
1) whenever possible not go to places with the signs
2) if for some reason I end up in a place with a sign I stay concealed and get in and out as fast as possible or based on the situation may leave the gun in the car.
It has been my experience so far ( been carrying over 30 years now) the state's that are easiest to carry in or get a permit in also tend to have the most no
Gun signs.

Posted: 2/9/2017 1:40:14 PM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:
What signs ?
Concealed means no one can see it.

View Quote

This.

Unless it's somewhere legally prohibited I carry anyways. Most crimes happen in those gun-free zones, I'm not going to leave my gun behind where I'm statistically most likely to actually need it.

Posted: 2/9/2017 3:39:16 PM EDT

[#4]

Even in Tucson I've only seen 2-3 and I grew up here. Appleby's has them somewhere, but the staffs of two Appleby's stores have taken our CCW course at SERP. gatorfarmtactical.com

What do folks not understand about the word '
Concealed'?

Posted: 2/9/2017 4:52:02 PM EDT

[#5]

So someone explain to me how the signs in AZ work. If they do carry the force of law then isn't it legally prohibited there and what are the penalties?

I am asking because I am getting some conflicting answers. Handgunlaw and USACarry say the signs carry the force of law, but some people say they carry in those places anyway because stores have to ask you to leave?

Concealed is concealed is a great thing until something strange happens and you are outed, searched or whatever and then actually face jail time for technically breaking the law. I know of people who carry into schools and say concealed is concealed too.

Posted: 2/9/2017 10:55:19 PM EDT

[#6]

The way I understand the law,

IF you have an AZ concealed weapons permit there are only federal buildings or sensitive areas where your carry is illegal.
While private business have the right to refuse service, deny entry, or expel you, you have no legal duty to remove your weapon until it is asked of you.

I am of the mindset of "concealed means concealed" to the fullest extent possible. If I bought and carried G43 like Ive been wanting to, I would never need to remove it.

Posted: 2/10/2017 12:19:30 AM EDT

[#7]

if they have a license to serve alcohol for on site consumtion AND also post the official no guns sign immediately adjacent to the alcohol permit, then it carries the force of law.

any 'no guns' sign at a mall, movie theater, or store are irrelevant for the most part. trespassing offense but only if they somehow spot that you are carrying and tell you to leave, and you don't leave.

Posted: 2/10/2017 9:33:27 AM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
if they have a license to serve alcohol for on site consumtion AND also post the official no guns sign immediately adjacent to the alcohol permit, then it carries the force of law.

any 'no guns' sign at a mall, movie theater, or store are irrelevant for the most part. trespassing offense but only if they somehow spot that you are carrying and tell you to leave, and you don't leave.

View Quote

This is correct.

The only place* a no gun sign carries a penalty for simple violation, i.e. you walk into the business with your gun and you now have committed a crime, are places that sell alcoholic beverages for on site consumption. A liquor store is good to go so long as they only sell closed container.
Most of us ignore all of the other posted signs (malls etc.) and never have an issue. Worst they can do is ask that you leave, never had that happen personally.

*Schools, government buildings (local, state & federal) and most Tribal lands are no go zones for carrying.

Posted: 2/10/2017 10:48:42 AM EDT

[#9]

The signs carrying force of law for private businesses is where I am seeing the conflicting arguments and grey areas. Some people say that technically they don't have to ask you to leave and that they could just call the cops and you could be charged with trespass because the sign is considered the warming? Others are saying that the force of law only applies to Govt buildings and places that serve alcohol. Some of those posts are on other forums and are dated from 2009 -2015 or so. Has there been a case law change?

So is Handgulaw.us wrong or do they need to change the info to "No gun signs do not carry force of law for private businesses"

I am not trying to be a IAJackass, (although my wife says I am good at it ) I just want to make sure I don't get charged !

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/too-many-no-guns-signs-in-az.707737/page-2

No gun signs DO have force of law. A no gun sign is your notice that carrying is trespassing. You can get arrested for trespassing and misconduct involving a firearm if caught carrying on the premises of an establishment that has a no gun sign. They do not have to ask you to leave first if the sign was posted in a reasonable location and easily visible.

Most places will ask you to leave first, since it's a hassle for them to have to call the police, but they are under no obligation to do this.

10. Unless specifically authorized by law, entering any public establishment or attending any public event and carrying a deadly weapon on his person after a reasonable request by the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event or the sponsor's agent to remove his weapon and place it in the custody of the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event for temporary and secure storage of the weapon pursuant to section 13-3102.01; or Case law has determined a sign is deemed a reasonable request. Therefore, by passing the threshold of an establishment that has a posted no gun sign, with a gun on you, you are already trespassing, and can be arrested for it (and misconduct involving a firearm) without any kind of notice.

View Quote

Posted: 2/10/2017 1:44:51 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
The signs carrying force of law for private businesses is where I am seeing the conflicting arguments and grey areas. Some people say that technically they don't have to ask you to leave and that they could just call the cops and you could be charged with trespass because the sign is considered the warming? Others are saying that the force of law only applies to Govt buildings and places that serve alcohol. Some of those posts are on other forums and are dated from 2009 -2015 or so. Has there been a case law change?

So is Handgulaw.us wrong or do they need to change the info to "No gun signs do not carry force of law for private businesses"

I am not trying to be a IAJackass, (although my wife says I am good at it ) I just want to make sure I don't get charged !

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/too-many-no-guns-signs-in-az.707737/page-2

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:
The signs carrying force of law for private businesses is where I am seeing the conflicting arguments and grey areas. Some people say that technically they don't have to ask you to leave and that they could just call the cops and you could be charged with trespass because the sign is considered the warming? Others are saying that the force of law only applies to Govt buildings and places that serve alcohol. Some of those posts are on other forums and are dated from 2009 -2015 or so. Has there been a case law change?

So is Handgulaw.us wrong or do they need to change the info to "No gun signs do not carry force of law for private businesses"

I am not trying to be a IAJackass, (although my wife says I am good at it ) I just want to make sure I don't get charged !

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/too-many-no-guns-signs-in-az.707737/page-2

No gun signs DO have force of law. A no gun sign is your notice that carrying is trespassing. You can get arrested for trespassing and misconduct involving a firearm if caught carrying on the premises of an establishment that has a no gun sign. They do not have to ask you to leave first if the sign was posted in a reasonable location and easily visible.

Most places will ask you to leave first, since it's a hassle for them to have to call the police, but they are under no obligation to do this.

10. Unless specifically authorized by law, entering any public establishment or attending any public event and carrying a deadly weapon on his person after a reasonable request by the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event or the sponsor's agent to remove his weapon and place it in the custody of the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event for temporary and secure storage of the weapon pursuant to section 13-3102.01; or Case law has determined a sign is deemed a reasonable request. Therefore, by passing the threshold of an establishment that has a posted no gun sign, with a gun on you, you are already trespassing, and can be arrested for it (and misconduct involving a firearm) without any kind of notice.

just a guess but from the cops i know, i doubt they would arrest you for that, if you were not confronted to leave. most of the signs i see are so poorly placed that they are hard to see unless you are looking. i ignore them too.

Posted: 2/10/2017 3:55:29 PM EDT

[#11]

Signs prohibiting firearms at businesses that do not serve alcohol do not carry a penalty under AZ law.
If you are asked to leave you must or else you can be charged with trespass.

Posted: 2/10/2017 4:10:24 PM EDT

[#12]

what do the ones that say pursuant to some law or reg imply? CCW only?

Posted: 2/11/2017 11:01:44 AM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
Signs prohibiting firearms at businesses that do not serve alcohol do not carry a penalty under AZ law.
If you are asked to leave you must or else you can be charged with trespass.

View Quote

This is good to know ! Thanks

Posted: 2/12/2017 6:33:50 AM EDT

[#14]

The AZCDL has some good info on laws that were pasted concerning CCW AZCDL

Posted: 2/12/2017 2:54:53 PM EDT

[#15]

Not very... I carry anyway if I see one. Even seen a guy open carrying in the post office, nobody said anything lol

Posted: 3/15/2017 11:39:28 PM EDT

[#16]

I would highly recommend you not carry where there are signs, even at private businesses. It's completely possible that you would get arrested, especially for OC at the Post Office!

Also, the signs are quite prevalent here and they've been getting more numerous over the years.

Posted: 3/16/2017 7:45:00 AM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
if they have a license to serve alcohol for on site consumtion AND also post the official no guns sign immediately adjacent to the alcohol permit, then it carries the force of law.

any 'no guns' sign at a mall, movie theater, or store are irrelevant for the most part. trespassing offense but only if they somehow spot that you are carrying and tell you to leave, and you don't leave.

View Quote

what he said.

you are only in trouble at most places if you refuse to leave if asked.

I ignore all of those non penalty signs and I OC most of the time and i have only been asked to leave once from a business and i did so politely no big deal

Posted: 3/16/2017 10:45:46 AM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:

I would highly recommend you not carry where there are signs, even at private businesses. It's completely possible that you would get arrested, especially for OC at the Post Office!

Also, the signs are quite prevalent here and they've been getting more numerous over the years.

View Quote

Absolutely no need to fear signs at private businesses (that don't serve alcohol).

Calling BS on this, all you are obligated to do is leave if asked at private businesses.

Post office like most/all federal buildings are under federal jurisdiction so don't carry there, same for most state buildings and schools.

Again for those who seem confused:
No gun signs at private businesses that don't serve alcohol do not carry a penalty if violated. All a private businesses can do is ask that you leave/remove the gun from their property, this you are obligated to do under law.