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Posted: 9/22/2016 11:42:15 PM EDT
Ok here is a puzzler:

GFCI protected outlets in kitchen are dead. GFCI won't reset. No big deal. Get new outlet from home depot. Swap outlet. Still no go.

Disconnect everything from the outlet. Turn breaker back on. Check the voltage with my multimeter. 57 VAC. WTF. Black to white: 57 Volts. Black to ground: 57 volts.  White to ground = 0 like it should.  Every other circuit reads a normal 122 VAC so not my meter.   Living room sockets are on the same breaker, read 122 VAC.

Any ideas?  Can't be the breaker, but maybe the tie point behind the breaker?
Link Posted: 9/23/2016 2:39:38 AM EDT
[#1]
When you are checking the voltage at the outlet and getting 57 volts, are you sticking your probes into the outlet, or are you checking the wires going to the outlet? Which ever spot was giving you 57 volts, what is the other test point giving you? How many wires are going into the junction box the outlet is in (just three: white/black/green)?
Link Posted: 9/23/2016 3:07:10 AM EDT
[#2]
Bare wires.  

There are 5 wires.   Hot (black), Neutral (white), ground (bare) and then another white and black which go to the slave outlets.  (zero volts on the slaves since they are disconnected)
Link Posted: 9/23/2016 7:16:39 AM EDT
[#3]
Bad connection somewhere or breaker
Link Posted: 9/23/2016 10:58:30 AM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
Bad connection somewhere or breaker
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Have an electrician come out and check all the outlets.  Had a similar problem and found an outlet  wire was shorting out and going to ground.  He checked all the outlets and made sure they had proper clearance.  He said he see's it al lot especially in "spec" homes or similar construction, they use the cheapest bid (usually cheapest outlets) and just shove the outlets in the wall box.
Link Posted: 9/23/2016 12:34:52 PM EDT
[#5]
Definitely have a short somewhere. Get and electrician. In the mean time shut down the breaker that feeds that circuit.There is a huge risk of a fire.
Link Posted: 9/23/2016 2:42:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Same thing happened to me a year ago, only was in our master bathroom.    Replaced all GFI outlet in bathroom, and nothing.   Replaced GFI outlet in kitchen that was tied to it and nothing.    

Ended up, on a hunch trying a remote wall outlet in the hallway and it was dead.    While attempting to remove the outlet and see if there were any loose connections -- shazam -- all lights in that bathroom came on.      Turned out to be a just a minor short in that specific outlet.   For safety sake, I put in a new outlet.    

Interesting note though, this was the original outlet on a 20+ year old house, which had never been removed before - we are the original owners.    Always a good idea to check the outlet you think have no bearing on the GFI outlet, as everything is generally linked together.    Otherwise, call an electrician.  
Link Posted: 9/23/2016 5:25:23 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:


Have an electrician come out and check all the outlets.  Had a similar problem and found an outlet  wire was shorting out and going to ground.  He checked all the outlets and made sure they had proper clearance.  He said he see's it al lot especially in "spec" homes or similar construction, they use the cheapest bid (usually cheapest outlets) and just shove the outlets in the wall box.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Bad connection somewhere or breaker


Have an electrician come out and check all the outlets.  Had a similar problem and found an outlet  wire was shorting out and going to ground.  He checked all the outlets and made sure they had proper clearance.  He said he see's it al lot especially in "spec" homes or similar construction, they use the cheapest bid (usually cheapest outlets) and just shove the outlets in the wall box.


yeah, house is 16 years old and definitely suffers from "slap it together" syndrome.   Will start by checking the connection at the breaker and swapping it (only $4 anyway) if that doesn't do it I'll power up the circuit and check for a bad outlet  that should NOT be on the GFCI.   Wish I could borrow the thermal camera from work.
Link Posted: 9/23/2016 5:43:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Not to jack the thread , but I have electrical problems too and need a Good honest electrician . Anyone know a good one in the north valley ????
Link Posted: 9/23/2016 7:22:01 PM EDT
[#9]
We used George Brazil...prior to calling them I had spend $$$ replacing two GFI's and a circuit breaker.  Would have been cheaper to have just called him out in the first place.
Link Posted: 9/23/2016 7:33:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Had the same thing happen when I first bought the house. Turns out the stucco guys buried one of my gfci s in the back under 2 inches of stucco. Electrician found it, popped it out, replaced the outlet, Good as new.
Also, had a framing nail driven into one of my gfci s which eventually started of fire. Also the prior home owner may of replaced a gfci with a regular outlet.
Link Posted: 9/23/2016 8:08:16 PM EDT
[#11]
Ok, solved it.

Breaker was barely thrown. But...  Wrong breaker.  Or rather what I should say is the fucknuts who labeled the breaker box pretty much had everything labeled wrong.

The GFCI was actually on the breaker labeled Washer.  Washer was on the Kitchen GFCI, Microwave was labeled Refrigerator,   Fridge was Garage.  Etc.

Dishwasher/Disposal was correct.  That and the A/C was the only thing correct in the whole box.
Link Posted: 9/23/2016 9:48:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Ok, solved it.

Breaker was barely thrown. But...  Wrong breaker.  Or rather what I should say is the fucknuts who labeled the breaker box pretty much had everything labeled wrong.

The GFCI was actually on the breaker labeled Washer.  Washer was on the Kitchen GFCI, Microwave was labeled Refrigerator,   Fridge was Garage.  Etc.

Dishwasher/Disposal was correct.  That and the A/C was the only thing correct in the whole box.
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Just for safety sake swap out the breaker. Who knows how much arcing has gone on internally and has compromised the breaker integrity.
Link Posted: 9/26/2016 12:25:52 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
We used George Brazil...prior to calling them I had spend $$$ replacing two GFI's and a circuit breaker.  Would have been cheaper to have just called him out in the first place.
View Quote


They will charge more than a local company. Not saying they do a bad job.

Back in the day a pipe joint broke at my parents' house. they charged twice what A-Peoria plumbing did.

All the pipes were eventually replaced for free due to some kind of defect in the manufacturing. (polybutylene, if memory serves)
Link Posted: 10/11/2016 12:32:08 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Definitely have a short somewhere. Get and electrician. In the mean time shut down the breaker that feeds that circuit.There is a huge risk of a fire.
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It isn't a short, it is a partial open.  Tighten up the lugs in your breaker box.  The last time I had half voltage on a lighting system, I found a loose lug on a breaker.  

Partial opens cause heat.  It may already be fried.

Also, another thing to note, these things can also happen behind your meter.  IN particular in Arizona or a desert climate when your box faces the sun.  TEP just pulled our meter because the connections or wires are starting to deteriorate.  This is around 15 years old.  The electrician and TEP will be inspecting the system today for us.

It is a good idea to take an infrared thermometer and inspect your breakers, connections, and wiring in your box for excess heat.  A thermal imaging camera is a better choice if you have access to one.
Link Posted: 10/17/2016 1:46:46 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Living room sockets are on the same breaker, read 122 VAC.

Any ideas?  Can't be the breaker, but maybe the tie point behind the breaker?
View Quote


Before I start I am not a licensed electrician and suggest that if you are not comfortable working on 120v circuits to seek the help of a licensed electrician.

Ok what I underlined in your post says that the breaker and its immediate connections are fine.  No need to change it.

When you said you had 57VAC to supply the GFCI outlet tells you the problem is either at the previous outlet/source or the line between the two points.  Look at the layout of your house.  You can usually see the path of outlets back to your breaker box if you know what outlets and lights are on each breaker.  If this is right near the breaker box then you might have a branched circuit where it comes off your breaker and then "Y" s off to two different strings of outlets.  This would be the harder to check out but it would still be in about the same fashion.

Once you find the outlet feeding the GFCI box check it for connection and voltage.  If you have good voltage in and the connections look ok and changing the outlet out does not give you good voltage at the GFCI input then leave the side going to the GFCI box disconnected and you will have to resistance check the wire between the two locations.

Guess I can only post 2000 characters at a time ... part one above .. stay tuned for part two...

Radio
Link Posted: 10/17/2016 1:47:16 AM EDT
[#16]
Part Two

For the resistance check make sure both ends of the wire are disconnected from everything and not touching each other initially.  Start with measuring between the lines.  Black to white, black to ground, white to ground and make sure all of those show open/infinite resistance.  Do this at both ends of the line.  Doing it at both ends may seem like a waste of time but if you had the insulation in an old line get worn away or eaten away and lines short together its possible to arc and blow one of the sides clear and leave just one arced together or even none arced together but a point of high resistance.  Which is the next step after you are sure both ends show there are no shorts.  To test this you will have to use a wirenut and short two of the three lines together at one end.  Then head to the other end and measure resistance between those two lines.  Now you should be looking for very low resistance readings.  Probably not shorted unless it is a very short run of wire and you have a good wire nut but low.  Say under 5 ohms.  Make sure before you short anything together that the wires are disconnected from everything on both ends to start with.  This is especially the case for the ground wire.  Some folks that shortcut things put those under a bolt on the box and then up to the outlet so you may think its disconnected from any electrical source when in the back of the box its connected to the box and with the supply to the other side connected back to the panel via the other ground wires.  Be mindful of this and check for it.

One of those three things should show you where your issue is.  Either a bad outlet supplying your GFCI, a bad connection or a bad wire between the feed point and the GFCI.

Hope this helps you out.

Radio
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