Dont you first responders have any faith in us looking after your well being?  The general public is constantly getting shafted by the government putting you guys on the chopping block first knowing we wont strike at the leviathan if it uses you as a shield.  If this turns out to hurt you while putting the rest of the government in check what makes you think we wont vote in whats necessary to keep you square?   You have to realize we dont see first responders as the same as the rest of the government.   We will vote for you.  Push your unions to get somerhing on the ballot that helps YOU while allowing us to trim the fat everywhere else and we will damn sure vote for it. We juat cant keep going down this path.

I voted yes. Forcing a switchover from pensions to 401K is a fiscally smart move.

Not really, like I mentioned earlier this is politicians willing to do anything to make a name for themselves.

The pension spiking is such a joke.  Here is the example...an employee needs a minimum amount of sick leave to sell back to "pension spike"  

The minimum credit for accrued sick leave is about 17%  aka the employee wants to spike 1000 hours of sick leave.  He will only be paid for about 170 hours which are then pensionable.  The remaining 830 would be lost and completely unpaid for.

If they reach the maximum, they can get credit for around 40%.  I think the max is around 2500 hours or never using a sick day for 15 years so they would still only get credit for 1000 hours.  Here 1500 hours of sick leave would be lost.

By ending "pension spiking" as they did earlier this year, they changed the sick and vacation leave to a use it or lose it scenario.

Not surprisingly this leave is now being used at not only a 100% cost to the city but also the cost to backfill the position.

Like the term "dark money"  the term "pension spiking" sounds bad and gets people riled up when in actuality it saved money.

Either way this bill goes I wouldn't be surprised if "pension spiking" was reintroduced by the same politicians with a new name like "delayed savings plan."

This is going to be a case of politicians stepping over dollars to pick up dimes.  I can't wait to see them congratulating themselves on all the longterm savings while in the short term it will cost them at least twice as much  

well whether you believe it or not the taxpayer supports first responders.  Even if this is a bad bill there is a good chance it will pass because tax payers are tired of government employees getting a better deal than the private sector (not first responders but everyone else). We will grasp at any way to strike a blow to this bullshit even if it has to hurt you .   If we didn't support you we would have already cut off the feedbag on ALL OF YOU rather than let the government use you as shields to keep up their bullshit spending like they always do.  Maybe this is a bad bill but maybe we are so tired of hearing "We wont be able to fund the cops and teachers"  while these dickfaces spend millions on stupid fucking statues and bullshit mini trains.  
If the police and fire services suffer we would willingly vote to restore more funding to those things but it will also take some work on your part.  If you let the rest of the government try to hitch a ride on your backs to get their money back as well your odds aren't as good.  If your unions and members put in a little work to get something for us to vote on that is JUST FOR YOU it will pass with flying colors.  
The ball will be in your court eventually but don't be surprised if you have to take a hit since you don't seem to want to separate yourselves from the riff raff. might not happen this time but this is not california. We aren't going to pay higher taxes if the spending doesn't get controlled.  Don't blame us if you end up suffering so they can keep buying votes ith their other bullshit.
 

I understand where the frustration is coming from but a little due diligence is necessary.

It's proven here that the taxpayer doesn't read beyond the title of the bill.  Believing that ending "pension spiking" will save money is no better than believing that Obamacare will give everyone free healthcare.

I understand that.  Doesn't matter though.  The general attitude of a LOT of people I know is that government pensions need to end.  Anything that attacks that system is going to be popular.  We want everyone in the same boat as the private sector so the taxpayer can't be held hostage for liable costs.  Everyone I know and talk to about these things also supports higher pay for the important jobs like first responders to make sure you still end up well though.   If you guys suffer as you say you will it won't be hard to get public support to fix it and if bills like these end up costing us more we will fix that too because more taxes are not a popular option.    IT may not be the best way to do things but if you have a solution that reduces the ridiculous benefits of government jobs while keeping first responders a priority get to work and get it on the ballot.   It would be popular and would probably pass.





 

Also to address your comment about working to trim the fat; it hasn't been publicized as much but most city departments have given up quite a bit over the last few years.

Saying xxxxx city department to furlough and give up pay increases won't make the headlines.

However, when they say:  OMG Money everywhere, city employees are all billionaires!!!  UNSUSTAINABLE!!!!  That makes the headlines.

Well the problem is I dont know anyone who wants firat responders to have to cut back but we cant seem to separate you from the rest of government.  They cling to you for dear life knowing we are reluctang to do anything that will affect your job negatively.  We have to find a way to separate essential from non essential government better than we do now.