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Posted: 9/23/2014 5:36:16 PM EDT
Today in a public speaking class I was told I was not allowed to do my speech on metallic cartridge reloading. From what I could gather the teachers reasoning was that she thinks reloading is the same thing as making a bomb? This is total BS. Does anyone know who I would be able to contact regarding the decision made by this teacher? I wouldn't be making a big deal about it but ive already spent 3 weeks working on this speech.

-Luke

9/30/14 update
Took the issue to the department head who talked in circles. I finally got them to agree to take it up the chain to the dean of students. if the dean signs off on my outline I will be good to go if not I will be forced to pick a different topic. The department head made reference to a bill or some form of legislation that they will be voting on that would allow ccw on campus or force them to install weapons lockers. that may be more incendiary than reloading. I hope so atleast.

10/3/14 Email from instructor about final decision.

Good Morning Lucas-





I met with Dean Castaneda yesterday. She is the dean of students on campus. I shared your outline with her and let her know the following about your topic per our discussion with Jim this past Tuesday:




1.The students have been informed.

2.Not bringing items in.

3.How you know the subject very well because it is your job.

4.Focusing on the campus gun bill as an alternative informative topic as long it sticks to the facts and is not a persuasion.




After careful consideration it has been decided that the topic, metallic cartridge reloading, will not be presented in the classroom for the reason outlined on page 298 of the 2014-2015 GCC General Catalog and Student Handbook. I've attached the page below. On the attachment under the subtitle Policy it states that certain behaviors are prohibited from the campus. Some of the prohibited behaviors can include "oral or written statements, gestures, or expressions that communicate direct or indirect threat of physical harm." It could also include what was outlined under the subtitle Prohibited Behavior which includes: "implications or suggestions of violence", "any other act that a reasonable person would perceive as constituting a threat of violence", or "blatant or intentional disregard for the safety or well-being of others".




A new topic will be needed for your speech. It was decided that the campus gun bill topic would be ok as long as you stick to the information and it isn't persuasive. If you have any further questions, comments or concerns, please feel free to contact me at the contact information provided below.
Link Posted: 9/23/2014 6:44:55 PM EDT
[#1]
Probably some administrator in the office or one of the department chairs?
http://www2.gccaz.edu/instructional-departments

Did she give you any outlines/restrictions on what subjects you could do?
Is there anything in the syllabus on subject restrictions?
Link Posted: 9/23/2014 6:49:16 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Probably some administrator in the office or one of the department chairs?
http://www2.gccaz.edu/instructional-departments

Did she give you any outlines/restrictions on what subjects you could do?
Is there anything in the syllabus on subject restrictions?
View Quote

None whatsoever. she told me she felt that she was uncomfortable with me instructing people on how to reload...... ITS MY FUCKING JOB. i will check the student handbook also.
Link Posted: 9/23/2014 7:15:38 PM EDT
[#3]
I found the procedure for a formal grievance. i have sent an email so as to start a paper trail of sorts.

I had really good luck with my teachers at GCC one was a hunter another i ended up trading rifles with.
Link Posted: 9/23/2014 8:56:04 PM EDT
[#4]
Don't they have firearm training courses at GCC?

I answered my own question already. They do:

http://www2.gccaz.edu/academics/departments/public-safety-science/LEO/civilian-firearms-training
Link Posted: 9/23/2014 10:37:12 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Don't they have firearm training courses at GCC?

I answered my own question already. They do:

http://www2.gccaz.edu/academics/departments/public-safety-science/LEO/civilian-firearms-training
View Quote


That is what I was going to say. My freind took that class.
Link Posted: 9/23/2014 10:50:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Great, another libtard who cannot handle someone not having the same opinions as them. And this is why I am full on accusing today's teacher's as trying to thought reform our students.

I hope it works out in your favor, Luke.
Link Posted: 9/23/2014 11:12:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Yeah, good luck. Keep us updated.

Just don't go overboard. You don't want this to comeback and bite you down the road.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 2:35:39 AM EDT
[#8]
She is wrong and you are right but good luck getting anyone to do anything about it.



I went at it with a teacher at PVCC and nothing ever came of it no matter how high up the chain I went. She tried to not let me take a piss a couple times and she went ape shit when she couldn't stop me, she went as far as to starting an "investigation" on me to see if I was cheating in her 100 level class lol.



The teacher did back off me personally eventually but I had a friend take the class the next semester after me and she was back up to her usual bullshit again he said.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 8:28:40 PM EDT
[#9]
I remember my friend in high school who did a presentation on how to manufacture cocaine. Teacher cut him off on his third sentence and after the lawyers got through he got to do his presentation and she failed him. A guy who worked for a pharmaceutical company who was a friend was asked to grade the presentation and he said the guy nailed it. He ended up getting a a for it.


I love it when people rock the boat. Hope it turns out well for you and you can find another subject to piss her off with on your next presentation.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 8:36:22 PM EDT
[#10]
The final speech is supposed to be persuasive. Im going to do gun control I think. That should be fun. or a persuasive speech on how fear of inanimate objects is a mental disorder. or I may just do something easier so I can get an a and finally be done with the cesspool that is the education system
Link Posted: 9/25/2014 2:52:51 PM EDT
[#11]
What are the laws in as about recording people?
Link Posted: 9/25/2014 2:57:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What are the laws in as about recording people?
View Quote
Possibly this?
Link Posted: 9/25/2014 3:37:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
What are the laws in as about recording people?
Possibly this?


That is correct in my experience. At least one person participating in the conversation must be aware of the recording.
Link Posted: 9/25/2014 3:58:33 PM EDT
[#14]
I will upload the recording tonight, she used the gun grabber mentality of you cant do that because what if somebody hurts someone with it.
Link Posted: 9/26/2014 12:34:07 PM EDT
[#15]
Call Clark ,he is a bit of a dick but should be able to help you . He is a teacher in the computer dept there . cell # 602-432-2822.
Clark loves to argue and won't stop until he has won the argument ,he is a shooter so he should be sympathetic to your cause .



Clark D. Shipley
Computer Information Systems
(Business & CIS)
623/845-3868
[email protected]
Link Posted: 9/26/2014 12:37:31 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Call Clark ,he is a bit of a dick but should be able to help you . He is a teacher in the computer dept there . cell # 602-432-2822.
Clark loves to argue and won't stop until he has won the argument ,he is a shooter so he should be sympathetic to your cause .
View Quote

I had Clark when I was working at Ben Avery. Awesome dude! I wonder if he ever got his 10mm glock he was talking about during class. Lol
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 12:56:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Talking to the teacher again after class. Couldn't catch professor Shipley this am he teaches next to my first class but I had to get to class.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 4:13:40 PM EDT
[#18]
Took the issue to the department head who talked in circles. I finally got them to agree to take it up the chain to the dean of students. if the dean signs off on my outline I will be good to go if not I will be forced to pick a different topic. The department head made reference to a bill or some form of legislation that they will be voting on that would allow ccw on campus or force them to install weapons lockers. that may be more incendiary than reloading. I hope so atleast.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 5:19:18 PM EDT
[#19]
Her class, her rules.  A lot of life, especially in the work place, is being able to perform takes you may not like.  Actually, that's most of the work experience.  College is not so much about the information but learning to play nicely with others to get a task completed.  How well you respond to doing something you don't want to do is a big part of the experience.  It's not really the information (unless it's engineering or something of that nature).

If I was your teacher, I wouldn't let you do it based solely on your desire of the subject.  I'd have you do a speech on something you don't believe in or something you know little about.  It's a much better exercise, but then again, you're not at Stanford either.  

You should try a speech on existentialism (bad things happen to good people).  It's much more interesting than reloading.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 5:34:46 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Her class, her rules.  A lot of life, especially in the work place, is being able to perform takes you may not like.  Actually, that's most of the work experience.  College is not so much about the information but learning to play nicely with others to get a task completed.  How well you respond to doing something you don't want to do is a big part of the experience.  It's not really the information (unless it's engineering or something of that nature).

If I was your teacher, I wouldn't let you do it based solely on your desire of the subject.  I'd have you do a speech on something you don't believe in or something you know little about.  It's a much better exercise, but then again, you're not at Stanford either.  

You should try a speech on existentialism (bad things happen to good people).  It's much more interesting than reloading.
View Quote

Link Posted: 9/30/2014 5:40:14 PM EDT
[#21]
Not completely but there's a nugget or two of reality in there.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 5:46:19 PM EDT
[#22]
The instructions were to pick a topic that you are familiar with to enhance your confidence. Plenty of people are doing their speeches on their jobs or a part of their job that they do. The guy that works at Petsmart is doing his informative speech on choosing the right dog food. The lady that works with autistic children is doing her speech on autism. So because my job has to do with guns im not allowed to give my speech on reloading. Its fucking stupid and arbitrary at best. If they are going to limit the topics that can be chosen for the assignment then they need to A, list the taboo subjects or B, make everyone pic a subject and have the teacher sign off on it before you do 2.5 weeks of work on the assignment. I finally got a good recording of our conversation I will work on uploading it when I get a free moment, don't have too many of them.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 5:50:04 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The instructions were to pick a topic that you are familiar with to enhance your confidence. Plenty of people are doing their speeches on their jobs or a part of their job that they do. The guy that works at Petsmart is doing his informative speech on choosing the right dog food. The lady that works with autistic children is doing her speech on autism. So because my job has to do with guns im not allowed to give my speech on reloading. Its fucking stupid and arbitrary at best. If they are going to limit the topics that can be chosen for the assignment then they need to A, list the taboo subjects or B, make everyone pic a subject and have the teacher sign off on it before you do 2.5 weeks of work on the assignment. I finally got a good recording of our conversation I will work on uploading it when I get a free moment, don't have too many of them.
View Quote


From the description of the assignment, I'd say you have a really good argument.  She's kinda of backtracking if that's the case.  
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 3:09:41 AM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
a persuasive speech on how fear of inanimate objects is a mental disorder.
View Quote



I like this.  I always like poking the bear though.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 1:05:29 PM EDT
[#25]
Bump. Update in OP.


"I HAVE NOT YET BEGUN TO FIGHT!"
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 1:28:52 PM EDT
[#26]
That's ridiculous.  I did public speaking at MCC over summer break, there was 6 of us that gave speeches on guns and/or self defense.  There was no butthurt to be found.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 1:52:37 PM EDT
[#27]
ive been following this and I am surprised as well.  A few years back I did the same thing at EMCC and my topic WAS reloading.  Only thing the teacher asked is i either didnt bring in the primers or the powder (just didnt want a live round).  I asked if i could bring in a used primer and this way there is no chance of a live round being made and he had no issue with that.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 2:02:03 PM EDT
[#28]
Now I have had a few people tell me that I should talk to a lawyer about this situation, they told me to wait until after I graduated which as long as I pass this class will be in December. Who would I contact? According to the Goldwater Institutes website they are running low on money and wont be taking new cases anytime soon. Any other suggestions? Should I even bother? Personally I feel like they have violated my 1st amendment rights. What say the wisdom of the HTF?
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 2:28:22 PM EDT
[#29]
its seems like their policy is so vague that it covers pretty much anything they don't like.Plus im almost 100% sure that when you signed up for classes, you signed a document stating that you will adhere to student code and conduct.


sucks ass but im not sure what else you can do .....its unfortunate that all these policy's have to be written to "protect the students"
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 2:34:32 PM EDT
[#30]
They teach gun classes through the college. The guys in the law enforcement classes(not necessarily sworn officers) carry guns into the Public Safety building. It's just bullshit. My argument now is that my job in part is talking to people about reloading, they are saying that my job constitutes violence.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 2:53:23 PM EDT
[#31]
Don't know if NRA would be interested.
There is also the Gun Owners Foundation from Gun Owners of America
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 3:37:16 PM EDT
[#32]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Now I have had a few people tell me that I should talk to a lawyer about this situation, they told me to wait until after I graduated which as long as I pass this class will be in December. Who would I contact? According to the Goldwater Institutes website they are running low on money and wont be taking new cases anytime soon. Any other suggestions? Should I even bother? Personally I feel like they have violated my 1st amendment rights. What say the wisdom of the HTF?
View Quote
Welcome to the real world.

 



Did you go to college to get a degree or to prove a point?




Getting a lawyer involved will be a costly and lengthy process just because you are being stubborn.




It sucks that you worked on the speech already, but it's hardly worth your time. You'd be better off just writing a new speech, it will be less effort and less time involved.




Pick your battles in life, this one is not worth it.




Get the degree, and hopefully it enriches your earning potential.Who gives shit what some community college teacher thinks? In five years you won't give a shit either.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 4:09:30 PM EDT
[#33]
sadly, i got to agree. I am sure most can agree most schools/colleges lean to the left.  If it BS, yeah.  is it worth the headache / $$$ spent / time... thats up to you.  I would just switch topics, get the piece of paper from them that says ur smart(er) and move on.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 8:25:22 PM EDT
[#34]
So, Rap music cannot be discussed in any form on campus, right?
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 8:34:22 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
So, Rap music cannot be discussed in any form on campus, right?
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Thatd be racist to stop them from discussing their music. We talk about guns before class starts, theres a former cop an army sergeant and another guy who likes shooting in that class. All of the teachers references to public speakers are Obama oprah and MLK...............
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 8:50:50 PM EDT
[#36]
Tread lightly for now & just get the pathetic class over with.  BUT definitely make some calls & and send out some emails to see if anyone is interested in taking it up.   Trust me - anymore ruffling feathers from you directly (& without legal backup) they'll go after you & try to kick you out.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 9:03:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Change schools.  Vote with your wallet.  Tell the dean to FOAD on your way out if it makes you feel better, but he won't care.

I applaud you wanting to fight, but I agree with the others.  Their pockets are deeper than yours.  If you're one of the 0.0001% who get your issue on the front page of Fox News, good on ya.  You'd have better chances of winning the lotto tho.

Or do the topic anyway and suffer the consequences (I'd say call the ACLU but you, like me, sound like you're allergic to liberals)

Just my $0.02.
Link Posted: 10/4/2014 1:09:12 AM EDT
[#38]
You could try approaching the subject as "a mechanical processes of how to" speech.

I don't know if that'd help, but it couldn't get any worse. Sorry bro. Good luck.
Link Posted: 10/4/2014 2:08:09 AM EDT
[#39]
Simple, if you can't do it about "metallic cartridge reloading", do it on reloading shotgun shells.  
Link Posted: 10/4/2014 5:03:02 AM EDT
[#40]


I'd also call the NRA. And although I pretty much hate their guts, I'd drop a dime to the ACLU as well.

Free speech `an all that.
Link Posted: 10/4/2014 12:19:47 PM EDT
[#41]
been watching this as side "entertainment" but here goes....
-If you fight this you will NOT "win". Sure you might get a grade, but you will not see "satisfaction"
-You risk an entire degree/course of work over a speech. Is that risk vs reward worth it to YOU
-Their house their rules...does apply here as well. Yes it is a shit policy/ruling but you can only push so far and it sounds like up to this point NO-ONE at the campus is on your side
-In regards to education in general...my thought has been do the work, get the paper and move on. Most of my "education" has been outside of a classroom/school but without that paper it is hard to get a job

Good luck but i say move on to a non gun topic, ace the class and have some whiskey later when you are done.
Link Posted: 10/4/2014 2:00:50 PM EDT
[#42]
It is a well know fact academia in this country is made up of left wing gun grabbing socialists . They preach tolerance ,but are always the least tolerant of peoples rights that don't agree with their slanted left wing view of things. They are not going to change unless we stand up and challenge their warped perverted ideology . Every day they further brain wash and corrupt the impressionable students that are the next generation and vote based on the crap they have been force fed by these misguided fools .
Link Posted: 10/4/2014 2:03:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Would be fun to see your employer get involved.  Maybe a flyover is in order?

Just goes to show that college degrees are, in general, a crock of shit anyway.  As someone else already said, vote with your wallet, as little as it will mean to them.  I'd get my banked credits transferred elsewhere, refund on the current class, and fight the shit out of it from a safe perch.
Link Posted: 10/4/2014 10:13:12 PM EDT
[#44]

Maybe the school administrators would prefer you give a speech on the purchasing habits of the FSA using food stamps.

Hours of material and examples there.
Link Posted: 10/5/2014 1:13:23 AM EDT
[#45]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Would be fun to see your employer get involved.  Maybe a flyover is in order?



Just goes to show that college degrees are, in general, a crock of shit anyway.  As someone else already said, vote with your wallet, as little as it will mean to them.  I'd get my banked credits transferred elsewhere, refund on the current class, and fight the shit out of it from a safe perch.

View Quote
Yeah reading is for fags and all that

 



The BEST possible outcome from a fight in this scenario is a good grade in the class after giving the speech on reloading.




The worst case is failing the class and wasting a lot of time, effort, and maybe money.
Link Posted: 10/5/2014 4:44:47 AM EDT
[#46]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


been watching this as side "entertainment" but here goes....

-If you fight this you will NOT "win". Sure you might get a grade, but you will not see "satisfaction"

-You risk an entire degree/course of work over a speech. Is that risk vs reward worth it to YOU

-Their house their rules...does apply here as well. Yes it is a shit policy/ruling but you can only push so far and it sounds like up to this point NO-ONE at the campus is on your side

-In regards to education in general...my thought has been do the work, get the paper and move on. Most of my "education" has been outside of a classroom/school but without that paper it is hard to get a job



Good luck but i say move on to a non gun topic, ace the class and have some whiskey later when you are done.
View Quote
meh not really, you can take public speaking at any college its a cheap 100 level class and it transfers anywhere. Worst comes to worst he will just have to take the class with a different professor its really no big deal.



 
Link Posted: 10/5/2014 4:49:14 AM EDT
[#47]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Yeah reading is for fags and all that  


View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

Would be fun to see your employer get involved.  Maybe a flyover is in order?



Just goes to show that college degrees are, in general, a crock of shit anyway.  As someone else already said, vote with your wallet, as little as it will mean to them.  I'd get my banked credits transferred elsewhere, refund on the current class, and fight the shit out of it from a safe perch.

Yeah reading is for fags and all that  



The BEST possible outcome from a fight in this scenario is a good grade in the class after giving the speech on reloading.




The worst case is failing the class and wasting a lot of time, effort, and maybe money.
He is it right in some aspects, 9 out of 10 people work in fields that you don't even need a degree to work in. Not everyone needs a college degree and to be honest most people shouldn't try to get one they are just wasting their money. You know how many people there are in the U.S. with bachelors degrees right now who are out serving coffee or managing a grocery store, etc. They do not need their degrees and for them it was a waste of cash. There is wayyy too much emphasis on getting a degree on young people these days not everyone is a unique special snow flake most people should not go to college, most people out of highschool these days will go to college and take out huge loans that will haunt them the rest of their life just to be a bar tender or to work the counter at a car rental place.



 
Link Posted: 10/5/2014 8:10:40 AM EDT
[#48]
Hard to believe you can get college credit for shaving your pubic hair but can give a speech on reloading.
Link Posted: 10/5/2014 11:14:48 AM EDT
[#49]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:




The BEST possible outcome from a fight in this scenario is a good grade in the class after giving the speech on reloading.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

Would be fun to see your employer get involved.  Maybe a flyover is in order?



Just goes to show that college degrees are, in general, a crock of shit anyway.  As someone else already said, vote with your wallet, as little as it will mean to them.  I'd get my banked credits transferred elsewhere, refund on the current class, and fight the shit out of it from a safe perch.

Yeah reading is for fags and all that  



The BEST possible outcome from a fight in this scenario is a good grade in the class after giving the speech on reloading.




The worst case is failing the class and wasting a lot of time, effort, and maybe money.
He is it right in some aspects, 9 out of 10 people work in fields that you don't even need a degree to work in. Not everyone needs a college degree and to be honest most people shouldn't try to get one they are just wasting their money. You know how many people there are in the U.S. with bachelors degrees right now who are out serving coffee or managing a grocery store, etc. They do not need their degrees and for them it was a waste of cash. There is wayyy too much emphasis on getting a degree on young people these days not everyone is a unique special snow flake most people should not go to college, most people out of highschool these days will go to college and take out huge loans that will haunt them the rest of their life just to be a bar tender or to work the counter at a car rental place.

 
Your earning potential with a degree is higher, plain and simple. All that stuff you just wrote is what people who have little education always say to me. If people with a degree are working entry level jobs, imagine trying to get a job without one.

 



Can you make a living without a degree? Hell yes. Is it as common or easy? Hell no.




Here are the facts:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0883617.html
Link Posted: 10/5/2014 5:15:15 PM EDT
[#50]
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