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Page Hometown » Ohio
Posted: 3/15/2017 11:57:27 AM EDT
Question: With Senate Bill 199 being rolled out my employer is laying the groundwork by creating new rules and procedures. Today we were informed that one of our company rules is the firearm is allowed in the parking lot locked up in center console, glove box, trunk, etc.. The rub here is they are saying firearm must be unloaded with magazine separate of firearm. You must stop at some point before hitting work parking lot, unload, and lock your firearm up before hitting company parking lot.

That does not sit well with many ccw holders here. The company is stating they are in the right to require this. Any clarification? I have the law printed out but looking for answers.

Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 3/15/2017 12:21:28 PM EDT
[#1]
How the hell do they plan on enforcing that?
Link Posted: 3/15/2017 12:35:28 PM EDT
[#2]
Random vehicle searches. Seriously.
Link Posted: 3/15/2017 12:46:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Sec. 2923.1210. (A) a business entity, property owner, or public or private employer may not establish, maintain, or enforce a policy or rule that prohibits or has the effect of prohibiting a person who has been issued a valid concealed handgun license from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition when both of the following conditions are met:


Define the bolded information please.
Link Posted: 3/15/2017 2:03:00 PM EDT
[#4]
your employer cannot tell you to unload or carry your gun differently then the current ccw law allows,,,but it depends on the  conditions that were not listed?
Link Posted: 3/15/2017 2:11:16 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
your employer cannot tell you to unload or carry your gun differently then the current ccw law allows,,,but it depends on the  conditions that were not listed?
View Quote


That is my understanding as well. I am trying to find in the bill in black and white where I can say "hey you guys are in the wrong here".
Link Posted: 3/15/2017 5:35:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Won't change a thing.  Business as usual.  I won't tell em and they won't know.  Same reason I don't open carry.
Link Posted: 3/15/2017 7:40:11 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:


That is my understanding as well. I am trying to find in the bill in black and white where I can say "hey you guys are in the wrong here".
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Quoted:
Quoted:
your employer cannot tell you to unload or carry your gun differently then the current ccw law allows,,,but it depends on the  conditions that were not listed?


That is my understanding as well. I am trying to find in the bill in black and white where I can say "hey you guys are in the wrong here".


You left out the part after "when both of the following conditions are met:", which is what razerface was asking about
Link Posted: 3/15/2017 8:22:09 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:


You left out the part after "when both of the following conditions are met:", which is what razerface was asking about
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This is the text I left out.

(1) Each firearm and all of the ammunition remains inside the person's privately owned motor vehicle while the person is physically present inside the motor vehicle, or each firearm and all of the ammunition is locked within the trunk, glove box, or other enclosed compartment or container within or on the person's privately owned motor vehicle;
(2) The vehicle is in a location where it is otherwise permitted to be.


I do not see anywhere where they can tell an employee a firearm must be unloaded and locked away BEFORE entering company parking lot.
Link Posted: 3/15/2017 8:26:59 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
Random vehicle searches. Seriously.
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How is this legal even before this law passed?   Your employer has absolutely no business searching your vehicle!....EVER!  
Please correct me if I'm wrong?!?  
I get it if they're maybe searching your locker or desk or whatever in the workplace but not inside your Vehicle.  Unless maybe it's a company car or something.
Link Posted: 3/15/2017 8:28:44 PM EDT
[#10]
From how I read Sen. bill 199 LINK

   Sec. 2923.1210. (A) A business entity, property owner, or public or private employer may not establish, maintain, or enforce a policy or rule that prohibits or has the effect of prohibiting a person who has been issued a valid concealed handgun license from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition when both of the following conditions are met:

   (1) Each firearm and all of the ammunition remains inside the person's privately owned motor vehicle while the person is physically present inside the motor vehicle, or each firearm and all of the ammunition is locked within the trunk, glove box, or other enclosed compartment or container within or on the person's privately owned motor vehicle;

   (2) The vehicle is in a location where it is otherwise permitted to be.


As I read this along as you are allowed to have the firearm and ammunition in your vehicle, they would not be breaking the law in telling you to unload it. I am not a lawyer and this is NOT legal advice, but how I read the law and the wording seems to be everything to lawmakers.

"effect of prohibiting a person who has been issued a valid concealed handgun license from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition" Them making it unloaded does not interfere with said line to me. As you are allowed to have both the firearm and ammo and transport it.

But Id pay a lawyer for their interpretation and legal advice if I wanted to challenge your work. Hope I made since. good luck

Edit: Just to add as I have read it the bill states as long as they let you have the ammunition and firearm in the vehicle, they are following the law; the bill doesn't state you have the right to have a LOADED firearm, just the right to have it and ammo.
Link Posted: 3/15/2017 9:06:05 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

How is this legal even before this law passed?   Your employer has absolutely no business searching your vehicle!....EVER!  
Please correct me if I'm wrong?!?  
I get it if they're maybe searching your locker or desk or whatever in the workplace but not inside your Vehicle.  Unless maybe it's a company car or something.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Random vehicle searches. Seriously.

How is this legal even before this law passed?   Your employer has absolutely no business searching your vehicle!....EVER!  
Please correct me if I'm wrong?!?  
I get it if they're maybe searching your locker or desk or whatever in the workplace but not inside your Vehicle.  Unless maybe it's a company car or something.


I agree they should have no reason to do so, but it's their property and if you don't agree to it, don't be on their property or work there. As long as they make it clear as a condition of setting foot on their property, it's your right to not agree to the terms.
Link Posted: 3/15/2017 9:21:35 PM EDT
[#12]
My place of employment falls under the Federal Trade Zone, so they will randomly run drug dogs and bomb dogs through. If they hit on your vehicle your condition of employment gives them the right to then search the vehicle.

Thanks for the replies so far. I also interpret the wording as they can tell you it has to unloaded. I was just hoping that the legalese side would say otherwise. My employer has worked diligently with their legal department to cover every angle.
Link Posted: 3/16/2017 1:22:01 AM EDT
[#13]
They don't know that I carry and I have no intention of changing that. 
Link Posted: 3/16/2017 8:09:00 AM EDT
[#14]
If I were you I wouldn't go at it will a legal/illegal angle but a cost/civil suit angle.

If someone has a ND in their vehicle on the way to work because they need to unload a firearm before entering the property, first thing they are going to do is blame the rule for it happening and find a lawyer to file a lawsuit.

If someone (God forbid) needs their firearm to defend themself and can't as it sits unloaded, lawsuit.

If they actually fire someone for not unloading their firearm on the property, lawsuit.

"Is the juice worth the squeeze?"

Even if they can win the lawsuits, it costs money to do so. Is that cost potential worth the difference between allowing a loaded vs. unloaded firearm?

I would also point out that the intent of the law is clear, and they are violating that intent, and that usually doesn't bode well in court.

Also ask them why an employee can't unload in their parking lot, I'd bet you'd can use their reply against them.
Link Posted: 3/16/2017 10:40:11 AM EDT
[#15]
Buckeye Firearms is starting to hear of lots of different nonsense such as this (one company wants list of guns with serial numbers that may be stored in the car).

If you have a copy of this policy to share with us anonymously, IM me or email to jeaton at Buckeye Firearms . org  please.
Link Posted: 3/16/2017 9:57:31 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Buckeye Firearms is starting to hear of lots of different nonsense such as this (one company wants list of guns with serial numbers that may be stored in the car).

If you have a copy of this policy to share with us anonymously, IM me or email to jeaton at Buckeye Firearms . org  please.
View Quote
There is a section in the rules that state "could" ask for the gun make, model, serial number, etc.. It was brought up by another co-worker that no way in he'll would that info be shared as he claims it is NO right of the employer to know that. (He's right).
Link Posted: 4/3/2017 10:45:39 AM EDT
[#17]
Buckeye Firearms has been receiving many complaints related to restrictions being place on employees who exercise their 2A Rights to and from work.  Employee Manuals, and requirements from HR are being published with certain guidelines.  If anyone has information regarding any firearms relates restrictions in response to SB199 (2923.1210 Transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition on private property) please email them to me.  [email protected].  

The original way that this "parking lot" provision was first drafted, was to make the Concealed Carry Holder a protected class, which would have severely limited the Employers ability to impose any restrictions on their Employees, and put the the legal burden on the Employer to justify their actions.  

The ORC  Sec. 2923.1210, does not specifically mandate that the handgun be unloaded, but I am aware of memo's, policies, and revised employee handbooks that are placing additional restrictions on the CHL holder.  

Buckeye Firearms Association is currently preparing differing courses of actions.  I am researching and preparing to challenge the Employers in court; and Buckeye Firearms is working the Ohio Legislators, once more to rewrite and return the bill to its original form.  Keep in mind, this is what occurs to good pro gun legislation, when Ohio has an Anti Gun Governor, who only does the bare minimum to pacify the Oho Gun Owner; refuses to allow any "pro gun" legislation to reach his desk during his run for President; and will only sign pro gun legislation that he has caused to be edited before it reaches his desk.  

Use this tool to lookup and contact you Ohio Representative and Senator.  https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislators/find-my-legislators.

SB199 and the resulting 2923.1210 "Transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition on private property,"  needs fixed.  

Sean Maloney
Page Hometown » Ohio
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