How do we go about amending the deer hunting approved caliber list? - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How do we go about amending the deer hunting approved caliber list? (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 12/17/2014 3:24:27 PM EDT

[#1]

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LMFAO. I've always processed my own deer, and you aint ever getting 150lbs of meat of 3 deer, lucky to get 90 if all the does are big ones. Once you add up all the expenses, you aint nowhere near 2/lb unless you hunt out your back door. Once most of us factor in equipment, fuel, wear and tear on your vehicle, time lost from work scouting and hunting and running cameras, it's more like 20x your figure. Between myself and my son, I figure we spend at LEAST 3000$ a year hunting....for around 180 lbs of meat. You can buy the finest meat available for less. We hunt because we enjoy it, but nobody is gonna believe that nonsense about 2/lb LMFAO. Just the vacuum bags for the meat is 80cents for every 2lbs, hahahahahaha.

People that think big bucks taste bad, either never got one, or have no idea how to process a deer, Done right, there is absolutely no difference in taste.

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Actually, its pretty cheap to process your own animal. Sure the investment in equipment is expensive in the beginning, but processing ~ 3 deer a year nets me about 150 -170 lbs of meat for the cost of butcher paper, sausage casings and my time. My equipment has been paid off for years and I come in under $1/lb to process my own animals.

If you take it to a processor, sure it will not be cost effective. But most people I know (me, my father, bro in law and neighbor) all process our own deer. It's actually not too hard, especially if everyone chips some time in to help each other out. Good family time working in the garage, watching football, sipping a few beers and packaging meat.

Can you please find me beef under $2/lb?

LMFAO. I've always processed my own deer, and you aint ever getting 150lbs of meat of 3 deer, lucky to get 90 if all the does are big ones. Once you add up all the expenses, you aint nowhere near 2/lb unless you hunt out your back door. Once most of us factor in equipment, fuel, wear and tear on your vehicle, time lost from work scouting and hunting and running cameras, it's more like 20x your figure. Between myself and my son, I figure we spend at LEAST 3000$ a year hunting....for around 180 lbs of meat. You can buy the finest meat available for less. We hunt because we enjoy it, but nobody is gonna believe that nonsense about 2/lb LMFAO. Just the vacuum bags for the meat is 80cents for every 2lbs, hahahahahaha.

People that think big bucks taste bad, either never got one, or have no idea how to process a deer, Done right, there is absolutely no difference in taste.

Are you shooting all yearlings? 50 Lbs of meat from a single 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 year old deer isn't that hard if you keep the grindings and make burger but 3 yearlings is another story but we don't shoot yearlings in my family and group.

I do basically hunt out of my front and back yard with me using a landowner tag it's cheap

I also butcher my own deer without using a saw but I do use my buddies grinder for the grindings, well my kids do the butchering now.

Posted: 12/17/2014 3:39:34 PM EDT

[#2]

LMAO at what this thread has turned into.

Posted: 12/17/2014 3:53:11 PM EDT

[#3]

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LMAO at what this thread has turned into.

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I know. I didn't mean to hijack. I am bad, and should feel bad.

Posted: 12/17/2014 5:14:02 PM EDT

[#4]

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Plus, we are allowed to hunt over bait, feeders, etc. here as well. I would believe it was conservation if they limited the tags, had antler size restrictions, etc. Just using specific rifle calibers as your "conservation" method strikes me as being a bit facetious. Real, proven, scientific conservation methods should be applied. It seems like that ODNR is just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.

Not arguing as well, I understand not to kill the messenger. Just playing devils advocate.

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This. ^

Its a joke in Ohio that you can hunt over bait and there is no antler restrictions. To say that the straight walled pistol cartridge vs. bottled is a matter of "conservation" and not safety seems like a crock of shit to me also. If Ohio was worried and gave a damn about its deer population it would enact regulations similar to that of our neighbors to the east. I grew up and hunted in PA for years. The deer were small and antlers sucked. As much as it sucks after they added antler restrictions and put regulations on when and where you can shoot does at least it has led to bigger bodied deer and a better population.

Why no one should think that ODNR has any clue what they are doing:

The .38 Special is on the list of approved hunting calibers.

That is all.

Posted: 12/17/2014 5:40:59 PM EDT

[#5]

I think you guys need to buy a new scale, cause yours is obviously broken.....or you are just talking out your asses......both par for the course on arfcom.

And yes, this thread is WAYYYY off track......back to approved calibers......

Posted: 12/17/2014 6:02:21 PM EDT

[#6]

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I think you guys need to buy a new scale, cause yours is obviously broken.....or you are just talking out your asses......both par for the course on arfcom.

And yes, this thread is WAYYYY off track......back to approved calibers......

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You know, you did get me thinking though. I went back through my records and looked, and then researched it a bit. You should get an average yield of 40% weight on a deer carcass, provided you did not blast the shoulder, ham, etc and thoroughly deboned it.

For example a 150 lb deer carcass (minus guts, hide and head) should yield around 60 lbs of meat. Of course it is hard to completely debone. So looking back at what I have personally found and backing it up with research, I find that 50 lbs per deer seems to be about right. I do remove the meat from the neck and head area as well as I can. Sausage meat.

It is also true that deer are relatively inefficient producers of meat compared to livestock. But I didn't have to pay to feed the deer out.

The link has a good yield calculation for deer.

Link

Posted: 12/17/2014 9:38:31 PM EDT

[#7]

So if the Wildlife Council makes the rules (but obviously not the laws) could the legislature propose an act that would allow any centerfire round be used during Ohio deer gun season? Just a thought. Maybe BFA could get behind some legislation.

Posted: 12/17/2014 10:15:08 PM EDT

[#8]

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So if the Wildlife Council makes the rules (but obviously not the laws) could the legislature propose an act that would allow any centerfire round be used during Ohio deer gun season? Just a thought. Maybe BFA could get behind some legislation.

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The legislature is certainly able to do so. That's how we got suppressor hunting. Better for it to be codified into law rather than at the discretion of an administrative council.

Posted: 12/18/2014 3:14:42 AM EDT

[#9]

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You know, you did get me thinking though. I went back through my records and looked, and then researched it a bit. You should get an average yield of 40% weight on a deer carcass, provided you did not blast the shoulder, ham, etc and thoroughly deboned it.

For example a 150 lb deer carcass (minus guts, hide and head) should yield around 60 lbs of meat. Of course it is hard to completely debone. So looking back at what I have personally found and backing it up with research, I find that 50 lbs per deer seems to be about right. I do remove the meat from the neck and head area as well as I can. Sausage meat.

It is also true that deer are relatively inefficient producers of meat compared to livestock. But I didn't have to pay to feed the deer out.

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz194/Dreadhelm78/deer_zps7cd3d97a.jpg

The link has a good yield calculation for deer.

Link

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Quoted:

Quoted:
I think you guys need to buy a new scale, cause yours is obviously broken.....or you are just talking out your asses......both par for the course on arfcom.

And yes, this thread is WAYYYY off track......back to approved calibers......

You know, you did get me thinking though. I went back through my records and looked, and then researched it a bit. You should get an average yield of 40% weight on a deer carcass, provided you did not blast the shoulder, ham, etc and thoroughly deboned it.

For example a 150 lb deer carcass (minus guts, hide and head) should yield around 60 lbs of meat. Of course it is hard to completely debone. So looking back at what I have personally found and backing it up with research, I find that 50 lbs per deer seems to be about right. I do remove the meat from the neck and head area as well as I can. Sausage meat.

It is also true that deer are relatively inefficient producers of meat compared to livestock. But I didn't have to pay to feed the deer out.

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz194/Dreadhelm78/deer_zps7cd3d97a.jpg

The link has a good yield calculation for deer.

Link

I trim my deer well, I don't eat connective tissue, bloodshot meat, sinew, silverskin, fat and some of the other nastiness you COULD grind up into nasty burger

. On a large mature doe, I get about 40lbs of meat. On a huge buck, maybe 60 if I'm real lucky. Granted, I lose a few pounds from the neck as my heads and some of the neck area go to the taxidermist. What I get, is far more than you'll get back from most places that process deer by professionals, so I know I'm still not trimming as meticulous as they are though.. I'm pretty meticulous about my processing, as all the portions are weighed out and vacuum sealed. I'm calling absolute bullshit on the 72 pounds of "meat" from a 180 lb buck. This years buck dressed at 200+ pounds, and got way less than 72lbs. Maybe if you sent the carcass through the red slime brushes and got every single ounce of fat and everything grindable from every bone........but I'm not going to eat nastiness. I leave that for the people that eat that red slime at Taco Bell. ;)

There is a reason most people THINK they get screwed by the professional deer processors. They trim well and don't add the nastiness to the grind and remove all fat. The net is littered with stories of people thinking they didn't get enough back.....but the fact is, they almost always do. If you get 30% of well trimmed meat from a deer, you are doing a great job. There is no grand conspiracy to the deer processors.....they don't want your nasty deer, lol. If they are gonna skim some meat off the top, it will be from a good beef.

Posted: 12/18/2014 9:36:37 AM EDT

[#10]

http://griffinsguide.com/content/2014/12/10/how-to-butcher-a-deer-in-4-steps-video/

Posted: 12/18/2014 10:04:51 AM EDT

[#11]

Back to the topic at hand, what meetings would be best to go to?

I see that the Wildlife Council meetings are all in Columbus, and they have "open houses" in various areas around the state.

For those with experience, does going to an open house help? Or is it best to put pressure directly on the Wildlife Council?

Additionally, I see that you need to register to speak before the council, and have a prepared statement of less than 3 minutes in length.

Does anyone have experience with those meetings? I am pretty serious about going to one.

Posted: 1/11/2015 6:10:42 PM EDT

[#12]

Bump to get this back on page 1.

I want this to happen.

I also want a .450 Bushmaster upper

Posted: 1/11/2015 8:17:30 PM EDT

[#13]

Just make it all straight wall cartridges .357 diameter and bigger, like it is for handguns.

Posted: 1/11/2015 9:30:49 PM EDT

[#14]

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Just make it all straight wall cartridges .357 diameter and bigger, like it is for handguns.

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I think that would be ideal.

Posted: 1/11/2015 9:36:21 PM EDT

[#15]

NOTE: If you guys want to talk about butchering deer, feel free to start another thread.

Posted: 1/11/2015 11:34:21 PM EDT

[#16]

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NOTE: If you guys want to talk about butchering deer, feel free to start another thread.

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I'm done. I seriously want this to happen as well. Are the local open houses available for discussion on this topic or should we go to the meetings in Columbus? Does the wildlife council listen to emails or calls?

Someone who has been involved in this let me know.

ETA: I have wondered about the whole "conservation" issue surrounding this and the apparent fall in deer populations in Ohio. Would more restrictions on doe tags, and an addition of antler restrictions go hand in hand with more calibers being available, but a longer gun season. And higher out of state hunter fees.

I was pondering this on the opening day of the late muzzleloader season, as I sat and watched over a dozen hunters walk by me at the Dillon Wildlife area near Zanesville. People were still coming in by the truckload at 8:30 and 9:30 AM - doing a walkabout and then leaving. It was a disaster. Hell, I spoke to guys from Vermont that were bragging about how cheap the out of state tags were and how they had hunted PA out and moved on to Ohio.

Posted: 1/12/2015 12:25:34 PM EDT

[#17]

Ohio hunters and others interested in the state’s white-tailed deer management programs have the opportunity to provide feedback about hunting regulations and season structures on Saturday, Jan. 24, according to the Ohio Department of Natural Resources (ODNR).

Ohio Deer Hunting Summits

Posted: 1/12/2015 1:33:27 PM EDT

[#18]

Both 'Aaron' and 'BuckeyeDan' over at Buckeye Firearms Forum were very involved in getting us this far with the ODNR.

The March open house meeting are likely the best place to start the conversation with ODNR, but Aaron or Dan will have lots more details on what the best/most likely course is for changed.

JLE

Posted: 1/12/2015 2:40:14 PM EDT

[#19]

Ohio hunters and others interested in the state’s white-tailed deer management programs have the opportunity to provide feedback about hunting regulations and season structures on Saturday, Jan. 24 at Ohio's Deer Hunting Summits.
Hunters who wish to attend the summit should preregister by Friday, Jan. 23, as seating is limited. Summits will be held from 9 a.m. to 1 p.m. in each district. Click the link for locations: http://ow.ly/HaZ3r

Posted: 1/12/2015 3:21:33 PM EDT

[#20]

http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/stay-informed/news-announcements/post/hunters-encouraged-to-attend-ohio-s-deer-hunting-summits

Posted: 1/14/2015 12:33:05 AM EDT

[#21]

Looks like Indiana will allow regular center fire rifles next year

This is proposed rule changes that will take away the cartridge length restriction and allow rifles down to 243 in caliber. If this happens, I think Ohio will soon follow.

We need to make a presence at the deer hunting summits!!

Posted: 1/14/2015 6:04:17 AM EDT

[#22]

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Looks like Indiana will allow regular center fire rifles next year

This is proposed rule changes that will take away the cartridge length restriction and allow rifles down to 243 in caliber. If this happens, I think Ohio will soon follow.

We need to make a presence at the deer hunting summits!!

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I don't see that happening, but it's a good sign that IN is doing it.

Posted: 1/14/2015 1:51:38 PM EDT

[#23]

IN already had bottle neck cartridge's in pistols. Allowing them in rifles is a easy step up. Maybe we should try the same thing?

Posted: 1/14/2015 3:43:32 PM EDT

[#24]

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IN already had bottle neck cartridge's in pistols. Allowing them in rifles is a easy step up. Maybe we should try the same thing?

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Well, we would then have to change the cartridge lists again - by saying that the straight walls are legal in rifles, but necked cartridges are legal only in pistols.

I say just let people use rifles, keep it simple. I hate the list of legal rounds.

Posted: 1/14/2015 6:42:59 PM EDT

[#25]

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I say just let people use rifles, keep it simple. I hate the list of legal rounds.

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Agreed! Use what you bring.

But with all the fudds in Ohio I was saying taking baby steps may be the way to go. Look what it took and the amount of time just to be able to use pistol caliber rifles. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Posted: 1/15/2015 9:50:17 AM EDT

[#26]

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I don't see that happening, but it's a good sign that IN is doing it.

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Quoted:
Looks like Indiana will allow regular center fire rifles next year

This is proposed rule changes that will take away the cartridge length restriction and allow rifles down to 243 in caliber. If this happens, I think Ohio will soon follow.

We need to make a presence at the deer hunting summits!!

I don't see that happening, but it's a good sign that IN is doing it.

Indiana is pretty much a clone of Ohio when it comes to terrain and population densities.

Indiana got PCR's approved and it proves to have no increase in safety issues, a year or two later, Ohio gets them approved with no increase in safety issues.

It looks like Indiana is going to get bottle necked rifles approved, and I have no doubt it will pose no significant safety issues. It might take a few years, but I bet within the next 5 years they will be approved here, either via rule change or the legislature.

We just have to band together to make it happen. Fudds are dying off, and legitimate scientific research is proving they are wrong on this issue. Allowing rifles will have no significant issue on the deer herd or cause increased safety issues. If we can present the facts in a logical easy to understand matter, its only a matter of time.

Posted: 1/15/2015 11:41:47 AM EDT

[#27]

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Indiana is pretty much a clone of Ohio when it comes to terrain and population densities.

Indiana got PCR's approved and it proves to have no increase in safety issues, a year or two later, Ohio gets them approved with no increase in safety issues.

It looks like Indiana is going to get bottle necked rifles approved, and I have no doubt it will pose no significant safety issues. It might take a few years, but I bet within the next 5 years they will be approved here, either via rule change or the legislature.

We just have to band together to make it happen. Fudds are dying off, and legitimate scientific research is proving they are wrong on this issue. Allowing rifles will have no significant issue on the deer herd or cause increased safety issues. If we can present the facts in a logical easy to understand matter, its only a matter of time.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Looks like Indiana will allow regular center fire rifles next year

This is proposed rule changes that will take away the cartridge length restriction and allow rifles down to 243 in caliber. If this happens, I think Ohio will soon follow.

We need to make a presence at the deer hunting summits!!

I don't see that happening, but it's a good sign that IN is doing it.

Indiana is pretty much a clone of Ohio when it comes to terrain and population densities.

Indiana got PCR's approved and it proves to have no increase in safety issues, a year or two later, Ohio gets them approved with no increase in safety issues.

It looks like Indiana is going to get bottle necked rifles approved, and I have no doubt it will pose no significant safety issues. It might take a few years, but I bet within the next 5 years they will be approved here, either via rule change or the legislature.

We just have to band together to make it happen. Fudds are dying off, and legitimate scientific research is proving they are wrong on this issue. Allowing rifles will have no significant issue on the deer herd or cause increased safety issues. If we can present the facts in a logical easy to understand matter, its only a matter of time.

This x 1000.

Our deer population issues are related to the "if its brown, it's down" attitude and a shit ton of doe tags and no restrictions.

The safety issues are only in the mind of those who are like "muh shot gun is gud enuf", and are afraid that its a war zone. Those same people were the ones saying that silencers were bad because then they couldn't hear where everyone was. WTF kind of reasoning is that? You didn't know they were there till they shot anyways.

Posted: 1/16/2015 2:18:23 PM EDT

[#28]

Don't expect Mike Tonkovich, Ohio's head of deer management, to agree the Buckeye State needs a lot more deer. Tonkovich and his crews will develop new deer management goals this spring after this year's complaints, promising to look at loosening the controls to allow the herd to grow a little this year. But not too much.

Link

Posted: 2/17/2015 1:15:32 AM EDT

[#29]

Looks like all they want to add is the 450 Marlin

ODNR

Posted: 2/17/2015 1:38:54 AM EDT

[#30]

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Looks like all they want to add is the 450 Marlin

ODNR

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Oh yay, a cartridge that mirrors the 45-70 when its handloaded to full spec. Just what I wanted.

BuckeyeFirearms can we throw rifles for deer hunting on the next legislative agenda?

Posted: 2/17/2015 2:23:56 AM EDT

[#31]

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Looks like all they want to add is the 450 Marlin

ODNR

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Got to keep plugging away. I expect it will take the better part of a decade to see a real change.

Posted: 2/17/2015 7:56:12 AM EDT

[#32]

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Quoted:

Oh yay, a cartridge that mirrors the 45-70 when its handloaded to full spec. Just what I wanted.

BuckeyeFirearms can we throw rifles for deer hunting on the next legislative agenda?

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Looks like all they want to add is the 450 Marlin

ODNR

Oh yay, a cartridge that mirrors the 45-70 when its handloaded to full spec. Just what I wanted.

BuckeyeFirearms can we throw rifles for deer hunting on the next legislative agenda?

Going through DNR does seem to be like a colossal waste of time to get rifle hunting though. Legislation looks to be the way to go.

Posted: 2/18/2015 9:26:10 PM EDT

[#33]

i remember talking to a ODNR rep at a ota show about 2 years ago.

"well, .308 could mean someone would kill a deer at 6, 7 maybe 800 yards. they would most likely just leave it if it runs to far or just shoot it for fun"

Don't you think anyone who could kill a deer at 800 yards would be smart enough not to?

Posted: 2/19/2015 3:42:13 PM EDT

[#34]

well hell, I suppose you could hit a deer at 600 with a 12 gauge slug too. How many people can/will actually do it?

The person pulling the trigger has a whole lot more to do with how many deer are killed or the safety of hunting that the tool used.

It is largely a social issue. Some people have cool rifles that they want to use and are in favor of changing the rules. Some people hunt on land that shots are never longer than 100 yards that don't see any reason to change, and are scared that there will be no more trophies to be found if the rules are changed.

I don't see a significant amount of additional deer harvested by letting people use bottleneck rifle cartridges. The one buck rule and trail cams has limited many to not shooting deer if you ask me. How many people do you know find a 10-12 point buck on a trail cam and pass up shots at 6-8 pointers early in the season waiting for "the big one". The big one never shows up and they end up not shooting one at all.