Getting ready for the move to northern CA (Butte County) and have spoken to the Sheriff about getting my permit app in order while trying to maintain dual residency and my permits in a few other states.  So far they've been very helpful.  

I see on the application that I have to list each firearm I might carry.  My wife has a G42 that we both carry sometimes.  Otherwise, we have our own respective firearms.  Can she and I list the same G42 on our permits, or do I need to buy another one before we move?

Bonus roster question:

Also wondering if Ruger Single Six and rimfires are exempt from the roster or if they're just fallen off along with all other Rugers now?  We have one that I thought I'd leave out of state at another property, but if I can't get one in the future, I might need to bring it now.  

Thanks!

Interesting question.  The penal code doesn't say a thing about who owns the gun  for the CCW permit.  The state-wide standard application form doesn't say anything either, and doesn't even have a space to enter who the owner is.  On the other hand, it is clear that most departments check, because (they often find typos in the serial number.  Individual departments can have additional local policies, but they have to disclose those; I just looked at Butte county, and they don't say a thing about who owns the gun.

My suggestion: Call the on the phone and ask.

One more legal thing to think about: while multiple people can have an "ownership interest" in a gun (it could for example be joint property of the spouses), each gun also has one registered owner.  There are restrictions about lending guns in PC 27880.  Even for lending to a spouse, the loan has to be "infrequent" (defined as less than 6 times per year), and up to 30 days in duration each time.  So if you switch the G42 back and forth every day, that would be 365/2 = 182 loans per year, far more than 6.  Or if your wife borrows the G42 for all of October, which has more than 30 days (it has 31!), you're technically doing something illegal.  If the staff at your sheriff's office are really obnoxious, they could use this section to make trouble ... but I presume that in Butte county, they are very friendly and pro-CCW.  (Don't bother pointing out to me that this makes no sense, and that any range trip with the spouse will probably violate this law.)

Personally, I would buy a second one: compared to the other costs of a CCW and of the shooting sport in general, it's a cheap way to stay away from legal potholes.  And you can never have too many guns.  And it seems that in this case you won't even get in trouble with the wife (duh).

Single action revolvers are exempt from the roster, if they meet sensible minimum qualifications (I think it's 5 shots, barrel at least 3 inches, and some overall length that every cowboy-style revolver will meet).  That's why the Single Six doesn't even need to be on the roster (nor is the Freedom Arms 454 Casull monster).  The exemption is not about rimfire, it's about single action ... even very small double-action rimfire revolvers (there are some S&W models that fit in the palm and weigh 10 ounces) have to be on the roster.

Not all Ruger's have fallen off ... I just checked, and I see 52 Ruger models.  That's probably less than in the past (the crazy new requirements for pistols, and the stiff renewal fee are taking their toll), but not zero.  I addition, remember that the roster has more legal holes than a swiss cheese.  Off-roster guns can be found in the state, one just has to have patience, determination (check websites and local stores often), and a little extra money.  I think about 70% of the handguns in my safe were off-roster when I bought them.

Outstanding information, treelogger!  Thank you!  

I think I will, indeed, grab another G42 tomorrow given what you posted and agreeing that it wouldn't hurt anyhow.  I had thought of grabbing a West German P226 and a P938, but the G42 has become a frequent pocket carry companion for me, so I think I ought to prioritize one for myself in any case.  

Excellent info on the single-actions and I'm glad to see I was wrong on the Rugers.  Like the simpleton I am, I looked up Ruger instead of Sturm, Ruger & Co, thus tricking myself.  

If you're around Butte County, beers are on me.

WitchDoctor, Welcome to Butte County! Yes, You and your wife can have the same guns on your permit. I don't know why they ask what guns you want to use on the app because it doesn't matter. You are approved or not based on you, not the gun. Once approved, you then take a class and qualify with up to four guns for your CCW.

Thanks!  I was referring to Section 3, which states that the listed firearms will be the only ones approved for concealed carry.  This is a screenshot of the section:



From the looks of it from the app and the County's instruction page, I need to have listed up to three firearms I want to carry on the app and then qualify with each of those same firearms.



I got these from the County records webpage today, but perhaps the 11/2012 revised app is outdated now?  

I just emailed my preferred FFL to get another G42 lined up ASAP just in case. Especially after I installed HDs and a Vickers mag release on it, my wife won't hand it back over, so I suppose this was coming anyhow.

I hope it is possible to add more than three given that between EDC, work, and recreation I have 4-5 handguns that I frequently use. I would hate to have to leave off my beloved 10mm or my Colt Woodsman for backcountry use!

Regarding the course, one thing that's cool is that one of the community colleges by where my grandfather lives offers the CCW course that meets the State's standards, including a shooting portion, and it's not expensive.  The bad thing is that LA County is one of the worst (although not quite the worst) in which to attempt to get a CCW permit.  I do know a guy who just got his last month, but it was issued by his local Chief of Police and not the LA County Sheriff.

I'm quite sure that the "listed" means that you can only legally carry those guns that are on your CCW permit, which in turn are only the ones you had on the application, and that has nothing to do with whether they are on the roster of approved guns or not.  Matter-of-fact, there are stories on the Internet that some pro-gun sheriff approved an AR pistol as a CCW (it is legal, as it is technically "concealable", but patently insane), and they are guaranteed not on the roster).  As the roster is slowly shrinking, a large fraction of the pistols owned by people and added to CCW applications are off-roster.

Now whether the Butte county sheriff can actually add more than three or not is an interesting question.  Call them and ask ... the limitation is not the application form (can always add an extra sheet to it), but it might be the automated printing process; I heard somewhere that all the actual permit cards are centrally made in Sackatomatoes, and the state DoJ is neither flexible nor pro-gun, unlike many sheriff's in rural area.

Welcome to California by the way, and congrats on being in a place where you can actually get a CCW!  You do understand that as a new resident, you can bring as many off-roster handguns with you as you like (or more accurately, as many as your bank account can afford, and the weight rating of the moving van can handle)?  You just have to register them one here, for a fee of only $19 for all the guns.  I'm sure you know that some off-roster handguns fetch higher prices on the used market in California than buying them new in other states.  Obviously, I don't want to encourage you to start illegally dealing in firearms without a license (no more than 5 sales per year, and no buying with intent to sell), but if you stock up before moving, and then find that the high cost of living in CA requires you to thin the herd a little bit, you might be pleasantly surprised, and that's not just by being able to surf and ski on the same day.

I would see if they would let you have more than the three listed.  I can't recall for sure, but I think last time I looked into it you weren't statutorily limited to three pistols.

For backcountry use, though, loaded open carry may well be a solution.  If you're in an unincorporated area where it's not unlawful to discharge a firearm, you can carry long guns or "concealable weapons" (including handguns) loaded and openly.  It's what I do when I'm in those areas.  Butte County is probably pretty good with that stuff, so a lot of land may potentially be the sort where open carry is allowed.  Depending on the county, BLM land, wilderness/forest areas, and others might be GTG for that.

Thanks for the info, guys.  It looks as though I can indeed add more than three handguns to the application.  

I had called a few shops around Butte County to ask about legal stuff (and received mostly bad info as I've found out), and one dealer did offer me $1K for a G42 if I brought him one, but I'm not into that (or having my daughter call someone else daddy while I'm in prison calling my cellmate daddy) and even if I were, he was so full of shit about other stuff that I've already scratched his shop off of my list of places to hangout.

My FFL has a G42 coming in.  I've never thought about getting a second one and had thought about getting a new Colt Mustang or Sig P938, but if we'll run into issues sharing, I think I'll prioritize the G42 since we're setup for those in terms of custom IWB and pocket rigs, spare mags, ammo, and I shoot it far better than a Mustang or S&W 642.  I've been really impressed with P938 accuracy, though I'm not sure it would make a great pocket gun, so I think I'll stick with the Glock, which I've grown quite used to.

As for backcountry stuff, I'll often open carry a Glock 20 or .22lr, though I prefer to be discreet in cases when I'm meeting clients or working in the backcountry with larger crews, or if I'm crossing paths with others in recreation in areas.

The best part of moving to California so far has been that my wife has actually told me she wants me to buy the guns I want for once!

I was allowed to list 5, and I thought 5 was the max number. You duplicate the one page and add 2 additional firearms.

You and your wife are allowed to list the same firearms.

I have heard some counties, like LA, having issues with pistols no longer on the approved safety roster, and have also heard they might confiscate the pistol.  This information came from both the interview Sheriff and instructor.
In counties that do not issue CCW, be extra very careful to follow the protocol since they are unaccustomed to civilians carrying firearms.

I had 5 pistols and some were like , and for those who had only one, and owned only one, I was . We had fun in the shooting portion

Thanks for the insights - much appreciated.  In anticipation of the move, I've tried to make sure my ducks are in a row for off-roster handguns that I have a practical want/need for.  I'd have a tough time limiting to five listed on my concealed carry permit application between EDC, work, and recreation CCWs, but three would be a real tough cookie!  

There more or less hasn't been a day in my life for decades where I didn't carry a firearm professionally or for personal use, and I'm currently permitted in most states in the country, so this (and leaving all of my ARs and standard capacity mags behind) is one of the bigger adjustments for me in terms of mindset and lifestyle.  

I'm looking forward to California in many respects, and I realize that I'm relatively fortunate to even be able to apply for a permit as a new resident in the county, so I really appreciate everyone's willingness to share their knowledge.

The issue with off roster pistols is that they are in the system as single shot and generally listed as 25 ACP, which gets them kicked back as the registered details dont match. I'm not sure why this is now an issue, my guess is budgets, but it is and its just another layer we have to deal with, at least it is an easy fix. However, you will not have any problems since you will be bringing them in from out of state. Again I will say, buy all ever handgun you think you might want, much better to have and not need to need and have to pay $$$$$.

Just list one gun on the permit for initial application, it will not matter. Your Sheriff will decide how many can be listed, usually they have a blanket number for all applicants, common number is 3 or 5. They switched from rice paper to an actual card this year which allowed for more space and thus more than a few sheriffs switched from 3 to 5, but there is no legal limit, just what is imposed by your sheriff. Regardless if you get approved you will need to qualify with each gun to be listed, that is what they will go on when printing your permit, not what you wrote in the initial application.

Kern County Sheriff allows up to 10 pistols.  They use the back of the State license to add the rest.



Is that a Butte county thing?  In Kern, we only "qualify" with the first listed weapon.  There is no requirement to qualify for added firearms.

Butte county allows 4 guns per permit. Go ahead and get that P938! As of last month we still have paper permits.

Tom

Thanks, Tom.  I did grab a second G42 as well as a G43, both of which ran extremely well at the range yesterday.  I also picked up a 5" Colt 1911 since I didn't want to pay through the nose for one in the future.  My wife thought she wanted a P938 until she shot one this week, which she set down after the second shot and went merrily back to her G42, so I think we'll skip the Sig!  

I also accidentally picked up a 1959 Remington Police Wingmaster with a Mad Max body and pristine internals.  Ran that pretty hard with slugs and it was a champ, so I think I may send it off to Wilson Combat for a 3" chamber, flextab update and ghost rings and use it for the time being as a fill in for my HD Colt 6920, which I have to leave behind.   For the first time in decades, I've found myself with gun purchasing fatigue, which I didn't know was a thing

Just curious, what brings you to Butte county?

My wife received a secure, longterm job offer that we couldn't say no to, she would be much happier in, and would afford much more time with the family, so we decided to give California a shake and see how it plays out.

Welcome! There's some beautiful country in the Sierras around here, enjoy your time here.

Just got to the house tonight.  A) that's a long assed drive up to Magalia from Chico; and B) I really like this part of the state so far.

Had some Jeep troubles on the drive and stopped in at a shop in Redding where a really good guy sorted my Jeep out for free while talking about ARs and the lay of the land.  

So far, very nice welcome to California. Off to safe shop in the next day or two and get the truck unloaded when the in laws drive in from Vegas.

I'm unofficially now a Californian!

Welcome!