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Posted: 8/30/2014 10:36:48 AM EDT
Anybody have an idea of what I'm up against?
I have a small 400 gallon give or take concrete fountain in the frontyard. I raise koi fish in it. We live east of Riverside up against the wild/semi-wild area of the hills. About five years ago something jumped into it and over the course or two nights killed and ate all the koi and tore up all my water lilies. The animal dug through the large rocks I had on the bottom for hiding areas and managed to eat everything. No paw prints were left. I figured the local coyote pack learned how to fish. So I got some chicken wire and made a mesh cover for the fountain. The fountain is wide enough that I needed three widths of chicken wire mesh and I connected them together with plastic wire ties. Yesterday I thought something/someone (kids) was messing with the chicken wire so I put out my have-a-heart trap baited with the bones from a chicken breast. About ten PM last night my dog goes nuts and I check the trap - it's a small juvenile dog. The new neighbors two doors down can hear the puppy crying but don't know where it is. I let the animal loose and tell the neighbors to be careful when letting their dogs loose (to crap in my yard). I figured the puppy had heard/seen the fish and jumped on top of the mesh and that was the end of it. This morning I go out to feed the fish and the pond is a wreck. Something has broken the wire ties - several of them - and climbed inside the pond tearing up the water lilies and killing fish. Of the four bodies I found three were whole and one had it's head forward of the gills eaten. Likely a dozen or more fish are gone, the water is still too dirty to tell. Some of the water lilies leafs were put on top of the mesh like the animal was sorting out fish from their hiding spaces. This doesn't seem like dog behavior but could be. The animal went through the hole and climbed around under the chicken mesh in the water - that doesn't sound like a cat. The only thing I can think of is a ferret which is a natural in the water and is likely smart enough to bite through the wire ties. I looked and I see no bite marks, and no foot prints in the back garden where there's fresh mud. Tonight I'll set the trap again with some meat. Anybody got ideas? Could this have been the work of the dog? |
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[#1]
I feel your pain, koi aren't cheap. IMO get a trail camera and figure out what you are dealing with. Up here it's usually large birds like the great egrets and raccoons as we'll. I see coyotes but they've never gone for the koi here that ive seen.
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[#2]
I vote raccoon.
Try cat food and other left overs in the trap and just keep trying. |
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[#3]
I'd guess raccoon, too. They're strong, smart, love to eat fish (or anything), have teeth to bite thru the ties. They leave a distinctive foot print, if the ground is soft enough.
From Wikipedia: Two of the raccoon's most distinctive features are its extremely dexterous front paws and its facial mask, which are themes in the mythology of several Native American tribes. Raccoons are noted for their intelligence, with studies showing that they are able to remember the solution to tasks for up to three years. The diet of the omnivorous raccoon, which is usually nocturnal, consists of about 40% invertebrates, 33% plant foods, and 27% vertebrates. |
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[#4]
I thought about a raccoon but I don't think there's enough water ... look around at the neighbor's swimming pools ... they have the dexterity and are way smart ... possibility.
Off to the Tennessee and Alabama HTF to look for a recipe for raccoon. |
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[#5]
Quoted:
I'd guess raccoon, too. They're strong, smart, love to eat fish (or anything), have teeth to bite thru the ties. They leave a distinctive foot print, if the ground is soft enough. View Quote I was hoping to find footprints but I water in the morning so by O-dark thirty in the morning the dirt was firm enough to hot hold a print. I'll water tonight at 10:00 PM. I have a #2.5 leg trap somewhere in the garage but I'm too afraid that I'd catch one of my neighbor's dogs or cats in it ... uggh. I might try putting it in the water fountain/pond. |
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[#6]
I vote racoons too. I see them in the valley where I live, and it's a good little hike to the stream for their water.
I have also seem them really tear a fishing boat apart trying to find the source of the fishy smell. |
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[#7]
Raccoons around here love hardboiled eggs, works good for trapping.
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[#8]
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[#9]
Here's another vote for racoons.
Back when my grandparents were still around, they went through hell keeping those fuckers out of their pond over near Mt. Roubidoux. |
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[#10]
raccoons. the do love a koi pond.
time for a cheap game camera. |
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[#11]
Quoted:
I thought about a raccoon but I don't think there's enough water ... look around at the neighbor's swimming pools ... they have the dexterity and are way smart ... possibility. View Quote You have a Koi pond. All by itself, that's way more than enough water. They are not beavers and are not aquatic. They infest the camp sites along the PCH near Camp Pendleton and there's essentially no fresh water there. We have them in our area but the neighbors have a pool and we have a storm surge basin where they live. |
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[#12]
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[#13]
How deep is the pond/pool?
Fish need fairly deep water to avoid predators. |
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[#14]
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[#15]
sausage? are you trying to catch Larry the Cable Guy?
maybe try a whole tilapia from the local mercado. or cat food. my neighbor has raccoons living in a tree in front of his house, he says they come down at about 9 pm to eat his cat's food. |
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[#17]
If it is a raccoon a standard cat trap will work but you must get to it right away
I was trying to catch a skunk and got a raccoon in mine and he destroyed it and got out |
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[#18]
Paul I'm thinking racoon is the correct idea, but do not forget bobcats. Bobcats can tear up a lot of stuff and are very strong. I have one creeping our neighborhood right now going after the large covey's of quail in our backyards.
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[#19]
My brother had this problem. Same thing, koi pond in front yard. Turned out to be racoons. He lives in San Jose.
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[#20]
I'm using a Have-A-Heart and I've caught possums with it (several!).
Nothing last night using a hot dog. If I put out cat food I'm almost certain to catch a neighbors cat and that would be bad ya' know. |
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[#21]
Quoted:
I'm using a Have-A-Heart and I've caught possums with it (several!). Nothing last night using a hot dog. If I put out cat food I'm almost certain to catch a neighbors cat and that would be bad ya' know. View Quote Go ahead and use some cat food. If you catch the neighbors cat, turn it loose! They usually learn from one night in the trap. The problem with raccoons is that they learn fast too. If they've been caught and released once, not likely to get trapped again. That being said, I've caught lots of them on my patio. The only way to ensure they won't come back is to release them to their final resting place. Good luck, Tom |
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[#22]
Quoted:
Go ahead and use some cat food. If you catch the neighbors cat, turn it loose! They usually learn from one night in the trap. The problem with raccoons is that they learn fast too. If they've been caught and released once, not likely to get trapped again. That being said, I've caught lots of them on my patio. The only way to ensure they won't come back is to release them to their final resting place. Good luck, Tom View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm using a Have-A-Heart and I've caught possums with it (several!). Nothing last night using a hot dog. If I put out cat food I'm almost certain to catch a neighbors cat and that would be bad ya' know. Go ahead and use some cat food. If you catch the neighbors cat, turn it loose! They usually learn from one night in the trap. The problem with raccoons is that they learn fast too. If they've been caught and released once, not likely to get trapped again. That being said, I've caught lots of them on my patio. The only way to ensure they won't come back is to release them to their final resting place. Good luck, Tom I'll drive them to the edge of town where there's a large horse park with water ... and about four or five possums I caught ... something ate the two quarter pieces of the hot dog bait and stopped prior to hitting the release plate to get to the other two pieces. Has to be the neighbor's tea cup ... I've caught that rat dog at least five times. Out to bait again. My wife says that I've been doing that so often I've become the best master baiter in the house. ETA: raw bacon tonight. |
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[#23]
Quoted:
... something ate the two quarter pieces of the hot dog bait and stopped prior to hitting the release plate to get to the other two pieces. View Quote I also found that. I had to close off one of the ends and put the bait in that closed end. They'll step on the release plate as they go in to the end to get the bait. It may also help disguise the trap by placing it in a laid-down trash can. Also, don't handle the cage more than necessary - it leaves scent. |
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[#26]
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[#27]
Quoted:
I also found that. I had to close off one of the ends and put the bait in that closed end. They'll step on the release plate as they go in to the end to get the bait. It may also help disguise the trap by placing it in a laid-down trash can. Also, don't handle the cage more than necessary - it leaves scent. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
... something ate the two quarter pieces of the hot dog bait and stopped prior to hitting the release plate to get to the other two pieces. I also found that. I had to close off one of the ends and put the bait in that closed end. They'll step on the release plate as they go in to the end to get the bait. It may also help disguise the trap by placing it in a laid-down trash can. Also, don't handle the cage more than necessary - it leaves scent. quarter pieces of hot dogs? I didn't know retired pay was that skimpy. |
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[#28]
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[#31]
Crawfish,... in California? Oh wait, I'll go out back into the estuary (swamp) and get some.
This is California, dude. Out here the closest thing we have to crawfish is shrimp,...purchased from the grocery store. Doh!, Now I got ya. Buy some shrimp; make some scampi, feed to raccoons. |
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[#32]
Quoted:
Crawfish,... in California? Oh wait, I'll go out back into the estuary (swamp) and get some. This is California, dude. Out here the closest thing we have to crawfish is shrimp,...purchased from the grocery store. Doh!, Now I got ya. Buy some shrimp; make some scampi, feed to raccoons. View Quote Hah! Right about now you can't hardly drive down any country roads around here without running them over. A friend brought us 10 gallons of crawDADS last week. (My Cajun relatives laughed like hell when they heard us call them crawdads) Tom |
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[#33]
Quoted:
Crawfish,... in California? Oh wait, I'll go out back into the estuary (swamp) and get some. This is California, dude. Out here the closest thing we have to crawfish is shrimp,...purchased from the grocery store. Doh!, Now I got ya. Buy some shrimp; make some scampi, feed to raccoons. View Quote Call around, you can probably find a tackle shop that carries some. If that fails, go find a park with a shallow lake. Most of them in Orange County have plenty of mud bugs for the takin' right now. |
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[#34]
Quoted:
Paul, put a whole tilapia in there. View Quote Actually, this is not a bad idea. I too would think raccoon. A friend had a koi pond on her property and raccoons ate all of them as well. Otherwise, buy a few cheap small koi and that may attract whatever ate them before. Good luck Paul and hope you find out. |
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[#35]
The father-in-law of a friend of mine had a similar issue - It turned out to be a Great Blue Heron.
He got permission from F&G to kill the bird, because they were too busy to capture and relocate it. |
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[#36]
Caught another dog the other night with the bacon.
My wife caught a cat with some chicken ... uggh. I think I need to get about five traps ... four for the neighbor's who let their dogs and cats roam the 'hood and one more for that raccoon. I'm debating on deploying the leg trap I have but with my luck I'd forget that it was at the bottom of the pond and lose a finger or two cleaning next year. I've reinforced the chicken wire to protect what fish are left and will continue trapping the neighborhood pets until they learn better. |
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[#37]
There were crawdads in the outflow/containment basin of a natural spring in "The Arroyo" when I was growing up in South Pasadena, I saw them in the stream in Ferndale in the 50's and 60's, and in the drainage ditches in Escondido before they came in to the 19th century in the late 20th century.
Never in enough quantity to make collecting for a feed worthwhile. Spect there were some areas you could. |
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[#38]
Funny story. My old man has a backyard pond that was once filled with a couple of juvenile koi fish. Last year, he told me he was sitting outside on his patio deck, downing a brewski, when he had to suddenly use the head. When he walked back outside after using the restroom, he saw a huge Crane standing in the pond. He told me he was just standing there admiring the bird. The bird flew away and he started doing something else around the house. Later on, he was walking by the pond and noticed that the fish were gone. Then it hit him. That fucking bird consumed his koi fish. He lives in a large suburban neighborhood.
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[#39]
Quoted:
There were crawdads in the outflow/containment basin of a natural spring in "The Arroyo" when I was growing up in South Pasadena, I saw them in the stream in Ferndale in the 50's and 60's, and in the drainage ditches in Escondido before they came in to the 19th century in the late 20th century. Never in enough quantity to make collecting for a feed worthwhile. Spect there were some areas you could. View Quote Growing up in Mira Mesa (SD), while as a kid (before all the over development) we would catch then in the canyons. They were plentiful and attracted allot of raccoons to the area. Believe or not, the west end of the community was grassing pastures for cows. |
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[#40]
Me and my friends used to catch crawdads all the time in the creeks and lakes in the North Bay area.
Paul: Sprinkle a little flour around the pond to get the animals paw prints. Makes for easy ID. |
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[#41]
Just make sure you are ready for whatever comes into that trap.
Bobcats and trapped koons can get mean. Any chance it could be a small bear for that matter? They are smarter than they get credit for too. |
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[#42]
Lay trash can on its side.
Insert and set trap. When animal trips trap, you tip the trash can back up into an upright position, trap, animal and all. Fill trash can with water and wait. |
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