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Posted: 3/15/2014 7:23:46 PM EDT
[#1]
I welcome yet another gun owner to California. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 7:25:50 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Im moving to LA for a job in a few months. Ive been studying the laws to make sure Im in compliance when I move but today it occurred to me that there may be an issue with the billy club and an extendable baton I own. Are they illegal to own in your home? it appears that its felony to carry them, but what about having in a drawer at home? Anyone shed light on this? Put a Smith and Wesson in there - or a stun gun if you're looking for non-lethal. I have a 1" thick solid 34" long aluminum rod behind the door what I tote when walking the dog following a pit bull attack. Heavy and solid. I would struggle to think of a less effective weapon than an extendable baton. 
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Posted: 3/15/2014 7:26:03 PM EDT
[#3]
leave them there..
Its not worth it. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 11:22:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Im moving to LA for a job in a few months. Ive been studying the laws to make sure Im in compliance when I move but today it occurred to me that there may be an issue with the billy club and an extendable baton I own. Are they illegal to own in your home? it appears that its felony to carry them, but what about having in a drawer at home? Anyone shed light on this? No exemptions for it being in your home. Importation and possession is illegal. Penal Code 22210 Except as provided in Section 22215 and Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any leaded cane, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a billy, blackjack, sandbag, sandclub, sap, or slungshot, is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170. |
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Posted: 3/17/2014 11:37:51 AM EDT
[#5]
Wait.. slingshot is illegal too?
or is "slungshot" something else and not a typo? |
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Posted: 3/17/2014 2:47:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait.. slingshot is illegal too? or is "slungshot" something else and not a typo? It covers things that have lead added to the impact points,,,think of sap gloves with lead shot in the knuckle areas. |
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Posted: 3/17/2014 5:46:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait.. slingshot is illegal too? or is "slungshot" something else and not a typo? the classic Y slingshot is illegal in many locations by ordinance. The slung shot is like David slew Goliath and/or as noted a weight contained at the end of a flexible holder. Which is why my 84 year old mother has several family heirlooms, which may be going to LEOs in the family if she passes before I move out of state. We're not particularly worried about her getting prosecuted. |
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Posted: 3/17/2014 7:17:31 PM EDT
[#8]
Can't believe something like a baton is a felony to own.
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Posted: 3/17/2014 8:24:35 PM EDT
[#9]
Please define a "baton".
Anything can be used as a baton. Paul's aluminum pipe is a baton. A baseball bat is a baton. |
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Posted: 3/18/2014 7:01:56 PM EDT
[#10]
are you not able to own firearms? Cant think of any other reason to own something as silly as an extendable baton.
Youd even be better off with a crossbow lol |
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Posted: 3/18/2014 9:50:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Felony. It's not worth it.
They aren't all that effective, either. |
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Posted: 3/18/2014 10:09:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Carrying a collapsible baton is a felony.
Carrying concealed firearm is misdemeanor (unless something has changed)
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Posted: 3/19/2014 11:01:33 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please define a "baton". Anything can be used as a baton. Paul's aluminum pipe is a baton. A baseball bat is a baton. I'm pretty sure the definition is in there someplace. In the past putting a strap or thong on an other wise legal object turned it into a "baton" think a pick handle, a railroad brake club, etc, with a thong, I guess it became a way for it to be handled differently or let go without losing it. However pragmatically, many of the objects on the list don't necessarily make a lot of sense. |
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Posted: 3/19/2014 11:43:48 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please define a "baton". Anything can be used as a baton. Paul's aluminum pipe is a baton. It's a walking stick not a weapon A baseball bat is a baton. It's a baseball bat not a weapon A billy club or ASP is a weapon as it's primary (read only?) function. Screwdrivers and prybars are mechanics tools unless being used to make entry for a burglary at which point they become a crime to possess. |
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Posted: 3/20/2014 5:44:46 AM EDT
[#15]
To carry a baton for security work, one needs a guard card and baton permit, even a police officer requires a guard card to work security as a side gig, and must be employed by a Private Patrol Operator - one can't simply obtain a guard card and seek to work directly for a client. I'm a DoD certified instructor for non-lethal weapons - I have a DoD ID and instructor card, I could transport my gear to and fro, but, would never carry on my person or in such a manner as to construe I'm carrying items for self-defense. |
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Posted: 3/20/2014 7:36:07 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A billy club or ASP is a weapon as it's primary (read only?) function. Screwdrivers and prybars are mechanics tools unless being used to make entry for a burglary at which point they become a crime to possess. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Please define a "baton". Anything can be used as a baton. Paul's aluminum pipe is a baton. It's a walking stick not a weapon A baseball bat is a baton. It's a baseball bat not a weapon A billy club or ASP is a weapon as it's primary (read only?) function. Screwdrivers and prybars are mechanics tools unless being used to make entry for a burglary at which point they become a crime to possess. Indeed they are what you say, until they get used as a weapon. Then, who gets to decide what they are? |
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Posted: 3/20/2014 9:26:56 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Indeed they are what you say, until they get used as a weapon. Then, who gets to decide what they are? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Please define a "baton". Anything can be used as a baton. Paul's aluminum pipe is a baton. It's a walking stick not a weapon A baseball bat is a baton. It's a baseball bat not a weapon A billy club or ASP is a weapon as it's primary (read only?) function. Screwdrivers and prybars are mechanics tools unless being used to make entry for a burglary at which point they become a crime to possess. Indeed they are what you say, until they get used as a weapon. Then, who gets to decide what they are? A jury - ultimately. |
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Posted: 3/20/2014 7:20:10 PM EDT
[#18]
Thanks. Ive got plenty of other things to keep in my night stand
 I just like to collect stuff and picked up a box of old batons, extendable batons, and billy clubs at an estate sale. Some are new some are really really old. Ill just toss them in my parents attic for the time being.
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Posted: 3/20/2014 11:45:20 PM EDT
[#19]
Illegal outside the home. Technically legal inside your home, but cops will react very badly if they ever see it. Bad idea. Get a bat. The stuff is not worth it.
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Posted: 3/24/2014 6:06:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Illegal outside the home and. Technically legal inside your home, but cops will react very badly if they ever see it. Bad idea. Get a bat. The stuff is not worth it. IIRC, they are not legal to possess in California. |
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Posted: 3/24/2014 6:07:42 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To carry a baton for security work, one needs a guard card and baton permit, even a police officer requires a guard card to work security as a side gig, and must be employed by a Private Patrol Operator - one can't simply obtain a guard card and seek to work directly for a client. I'm a DoD certified instructor for non-lethal weapons - I have a DoD ID and instructor card, I could transport my gear to and fro, but, would never carry on my person or in such a manner as to construe I'm carrying items for self-defense. When did this change? |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:47:08 AM EDT
[#22]
There are plenty of knives you can legally carry for self defense.
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Posted: 4/5/2014 12:42:01 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: To carry a baton for security work, one needs a guard card and baton permit, even a police officer requires a guard card to work security as a side gig, and must be employed by a Private Patrol Operator - one can't simply obtain a guard card and seek to work directly for a client. I'm a DoD certified instructor for non-lethal weapons - I have a DoD ID and instructor card, I could transport my gear to and fro, but, would never carry on my person or in such a manner as to construe I'm carrying items for self-defense. When did this change? It's been that way for quite some time. I'll edit with the cite. The BSIS police officer FAQ page is in the process of being updated so we'll see: http://www.bsis.ca.gov/customer_service/faqs/po_faq.shtml |
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Posted: 4/7/2014 6:23:43 AM EDT
[#24]
THank you everyone for your input. To make myself feel better about leaving behind my billyclub/baton/blackjack collection, I went out and bought myself a Glock 30s.
Im really looking forward to the move to CA, will be even happier when I can CCW in LA. I look forward to meeting some of you, Ill miss my local gun club, where I was very active, but will look to be as active after I get my feet back on the ground, after the move. |
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Posted: 4/7/2014 11:45:19 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When did this change? It's been that way for quite some time. I'll edit with the cite. ETA: http://www.bsis.ca.gov/customer_service/faqs/po_apply.shtml The BSIS police officer FAQ page is in the process of being updated so we'll see: http://www.bsis.ca.gov/customer_service/faqs/po_faq.shtml Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
To carry a baton for security work, one needs a guard card and baton permit, even a police officer requires a guard card to work security as a side gig, and must be employed by a Private Patrol Operator - one can't simply obtain a guard card and seek to work directly for a client. I'm a DoD certified instructor for non-lethal weapons - I have a DoD ID and instructor card, I could transport my gear to and fro, but, would never carry on my person or in such a manner as to construe I'm carrying items for self-defense. When did this change? It's been that way for quite some time. I'll edit with the cite. ETA: http://www.bsis.ca.gov/customer_service/faqs/po_apply.shtml The BSIS police officer FAQ page is in the process of being updated so we'll see: http://www.bsis.ca.gov/customer_service/faqs/po_faq.shtml Good i'm glad they have to get government permission. |
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Posted: 4/7/2014 6:54:30 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good i'm glad they have to get government permission. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: To carry a baton for security work, one needs a guard card and baton permit, even a police officer requires a guard card to work security as a side gig, and must be employed by a Private Patrol Operator - one can't simply obtain a guard card and seek to work directly for a client. I'm a DoD certified instructor for non-lethal weapons - I have a DoD ID and instructor card, I could transport my gear to and fro, but, would never carry on my person or in such a manner as to construe I'm carrying items for self-defense. When did this change? It's been that way for quite some time. I'll edit with the cite. ETA: http://www.bsis.ca.gov/customer_service/faqs/po_apply.shtml The BSIS police officer FAQ page is in the process of being updated so we'll see: http://www.bsis.ca.gov/customer_service/faqs/po_faq.shtml Good i'm glad they have to get government permission. |
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Posted: 4/7/2014 9:25:50 PM EDT
[#27]
I guess I would prefer that LEO not be used as private security, can blur the line between what a security guard can do and what an LEO can do as an LEO. Even worse when in uniform and maybe using public vehicle
But it is a common practice everywhere. But I bet what happened here is some Dem in Sacramento got a wild hair and thought (too much credit, I know) that cops didn't have the training as guards did, decided to pass a law. And got his buddies to pass it. |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 3:23:52 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess I would prefer that LEO not be used as private security, can blur the line between what a security guard can do and what an LEO can do as an LEO. Even worse when in uniform and maybe using public vehicle But it is a common practice everywhere. But I bet what happened here is some Dem in Sacramento got a wild hair and thought (too much credit, I know) that cops didn't have the training as guards did, decided to pass a law. And got his buddies to pass it. Actually, there is a bit of a p!ssing match between BSIS and regular cops. They would love to regulate us. In uniform and with city vehicle you must be contracted for through your city/department, so there is no conflict. My city charges $184 per hour for me and a car. If I get hurt, it's on the City's WC provider. I am not allowed to work security for another entity, by policy. And, back to the original topic, batons are illegal. Sticks used to fend off dogs are illegal. A walking cane that is not weighted and carried for defense, is legal. People get in trouble when they carry bats behind their seat, etc. I would throw a set of cleats and a glove there, too. It's all about the intended purpose. the CA Penal Code was written in 1872 and highwaymen and padfoots carried billys, clubs, slungshots, etc. so it's a felony. Gentlemen carried revolvers, so the penalty for carrying without a permit is only a misdemeanor if the pistol is registered to you on the first offense. |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:05:54 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IIRC, they are not legal to possess in California. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Illegal outside the home and. Technically legal inside your home, but cops will react very badly if they ever see it. Bad idea. Get a bat. The stuff is not worth it. IIRC, they are not legal to possess in California. Yup, just checked the law. Illegal to possess. Not sure why anyone outside LEO would want to have one, though.
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Posted: 4/12/2014 12:00:51 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You might be correct. I grew up with cops in the house, so they were all over. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Illegal outside the home and. Technically legal inside your home, but cops will react very badly if they ever see it. Bad idea. Get a bat. The stuff is not worth it. IIRC, they are not legal to possess in California. Yup, just checked the law. Illegal to possess. Not sure why anyone outside LEO would want to have one, though. For the same reason a LEO would want one: to compel compliance, to escalate in the use of force to compel compliance, to defend oneself, defense of others, to name a few. Why would anyone outside LE want a firearm or OC? The state of CA BSIS believes security professionals have a compelling reason to carry a baton; thus, they find it within their purview to regulate them. |
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Posted: 4/12/2014 6:13:34 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You might be correct. I grew up with cops in the house, so they were all over. Yup, just checked the law. Illegal to possess. Not sure why anyone outside LEO would want to have one, though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Illegal outside the home and. Technically legal inside your home, but cops will react very badly if they ever see it. Bad idea. Get a bat. The stuff is not worth it. IIRC, they are not legal to possess in California. Yup, just checked the law. Illegal to possess. Not sure why anyone outside LEO would want to have one, though. Batons, billys, saps, a British (Indian??) Army sword swagger stick, family mementos Ma Danbys's Grandfather with Graf Zeppelin, and after he joined LASO in WW2 after retiring from LAPD (His loaded billyclub was a reminder of the good old days when the beat cop said move along, you moved along, and one cop could stop a bar brawl) 
My Dad 
Ma Danby's brother (who got most of the heirlooms) (I have a similar picture saying to park off pavement and not block snowplows) 
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Posted: 4/20/2014 5:13:20 PM EDT
[#32]
Cool pics. Sign needs gunshots though.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 7:23:07 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cool pics. Sign needs gunshots though. IIRC that was taken o the north side of Altadena or over by what used to be Oak Grove Park by JPL. The signs with bullet holes in them in Altadena are in the middle of town not on the outskirts. |
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