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Posted: 7/18/2017 7:20:28 PM EDT
For as long as I can remember people get their boat motors stolen
and hardly ever get them back. I am a staunch supporter of freedom but have a hard time not believing it would be ok to let LEO's check my serial number/s if it could be done quickly. I believe this would lower the demand for stolen motors. What do you guys think? |
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I would not mind.
Legally, the number can be run without reason by Officers so long as the number can be viewed from a position an Officer has a right to be and the person's freedom of movement isn't restricted in any way... this applies to ALL serial numbers. In other words, an Officer cannot manipulate an item to expose the serial number and then run it. Basically, if the number is visible, it can be run w/o cause. Opening a motor cover, opening a motor access plate/door, etc. is another matter and requires consent. |
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Maybe they could incorporate it in the coast guard safety checks. Most motors
have a vin sticker on the transom mount. I don't want them to secretly do it. But ask permission and explain why. A television/media campaign would help. My take is to make people turn down the purchase of questionable items. The cost of new motors is not helping the problem at all. I have been looking for a new motor for my Gheenoe and a new 10hp motor is over $2k bucks. The 150 Merc I had on my 04 Kenner was less than 4k new. My Brother inlaw just paid over 30k for two rebuilt 300s on top of the trade in value on the old ones. |
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Maybe they could incorporate it in the coast guard safety checks. Most motors have a vin sticker on the transom mount. I don't want them to secretly do it. But ask permission and explain why. A television/media campaign would help. My take is to make people turn down the purchase of questionable items. The cost of new motors is not helping the problem at all. I have been looking for a new motor for my Gheenoe and a new 10hp motor is over $2k bucks. The 150 Merc I had on my 04 Kenner was less than 4k new. My Brother inlaw just paid over 30k for two rebuilt 300s on top of the trade in value on the old ones. View Quote BTW... Buying an item for "under fair market value" can lead to a charge of Theft or Grand Theft by statute. The ones who disagree and say hell no to consent searches, helping the PoPo, etc. need only consider this... IF the cops told you they recovered an item stolen from you, would your first question be concerning the legality in which the item was recovered? I didn't think so... I've had the distinct pleasure over the years of being involved in the recovery of some very sentimental items... worth way more in sentiment than in dollars and cents... I've watched people openly cry at the recovery of family jewelry (for example)... items the victim never thought they would see again. Same thing for extremely rare firearms. Make no mistake... there is a serious burglary problem going on right now in this state... I wish I could disclose more but can't. LE catches them, courts turn them lose. I don't like having to stop at a check point nor do I want Johnny Cop looking in my truck or under my seats, or running numbers on my guns no more/less than the next guy... but knowing it helps put thieves behind bars tends to make me not mind. |
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lot of the s/n's are nothing more than stickers. What happens when they peel off?
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something something may your chains rest lightly...
Why not have the ATF at every gun range and shooting area to "inspect serial numbers" just in case they might turn up a stolen firearm? How about we don't need more jack-booted bullshit in this country, or state. Someone steals your motor, keep an eye on craigslist and places a motor would be sold...your solution is worse than the problem. |
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While it's possible there are some stolen OB's on boats around here I've heard they're usually sent to the islands via Miami. I'm sure some are split up into parts too.
Personally, I'm not a fan of giving LEO's, and especially CG, another reason to stop you. If they walk around the boat ramp and check #s without getting in the way or slowing things down I have no issue though. |
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Yep... looking at a number for a couple seconds is the EXACT same thing...
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Do you have a hot motor on your dinghy? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes I am at risk of theft. I keep tenders with a Yamaha 50HP and a Yamaha 6HP hanging off the back of the mothership and travel through areas where I worry about them. I've installed antitheft brackets, motion sensors and usually have cameras watching them. If they get stolen, then that's just part of the deal. I'd never think to pass a law that imposes on other people because of it. Quoted:
Yep... looking at a number for a couple seconds is the EXACT same thing... Theft is unfortunate and should be punished, but as stated above - the last thing we need is to give the USCG or water LEOs more excuses to stop people and further contradict the 4th amendment. |
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No I am at risk of theft. I keep tenders with a Yamaha 50HP and a Yamaha 6HP hanging off the back of the mothership and travel through areas where I worry about them. I've installed antitheft brackets, motion sensors and usually have cameras watching them. If they get stolen, then that's just part of the deal. I'd never think to pass a law that imposes on other people because of it. Being detained until an officer allows you to pass based upon review of paperwork/number is EXACTLY the same thing. Theft is unfortunate and should be punished, but as stated above - the last thing we need is to give the USCG or water LEOs more excuses to stop people and further contradict the 4th amendment. View Quote ETA- now if you're referring to USCG and various FWC activities, as they relate to stopping boaters for "random safety checks"... then you have a point... but that's not the same as "allowing" a spot check of serial numbers that involve NO detention or interference with your freedom of movement. |
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Not only have I had one motor stolen i have had THREE motors stolen. Not one was ever found. Do i think having officers detain me while they check my motor for serial numbers is a good idea NO !!!!!!!! just what i need at the ramp more frustration. One thing leads to another period. Oh sir , I came to check your serial number on your motor but I have an odor of alcohol coming from you would please come this way, OR oh sir i was checking your serial number and i notice you have fishing rods in the boat lets check that cooler. NO NO and NO. That is what i have insurance for. If the motor goes I go get a new one with longer warranty.
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The topic, as I understand it, it ALLOWING a look/check... not being subject to a detention and a look/check... apples vs.oranges, so no, it's not the same... nice twist though. ETA- now if you're referring to USCG and various FWC activities, as they relate to stopping boaters for "random safety checks"... then you have a point... but that's not the same as "allowing" a spot check of serial numbers that involve NO detention or interference with your freedom of movement. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
The topic, as I understand it, it ALLOWING a look/check... not being subject to a detention and a look/check... apples vs.oranges, so no, it's not the same... nice twist though. ETA- now if you're referring to USCG and various FWC activities, as they relate to stopping boaters for "random safety checks"... then you have a point... but that's not the same as "allowing" a spot check of serial numbers that involve NO detention or interference with your freedom of movement. Quoted:
Maybe they could incorporate it in the coast guard safety checks. I still wouldn't agree to having SNs run even though I don't think I have anything to hide |
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nope they can piss off it takes long enough to launch my boat without someone bothering me.
I want less government restrictions not more |
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You mean you want to check my motor every time I go out?
Dats at least twice a week. Go give a ticket to a bicycler. |
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Got my interest up. Checked motor and did not see a SN.
But have the original book and it is written down. |
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Fair enough! LEOs can currently run license plates and presumably run serial numbers or other IDs while an object is in a public place and the identifying mark is visible, yes? To your point, that doesn't mean LEOs can walk around my back yard, take a cover off a boat engine sitting at a boat ramp or otherwise manipulate the object in question. They can look in windows of a vehicle for objects in plain sight or capture information plainly visible in a public area today, though, and can obviously ask permission for further search at a place like a boat ramp. Do I think powers should extend beyond that? No. PC/RS or consent should exist for anything beyond that. I get a little twitchy about having firearms seized and their SNs run at a traffic stop. Banditman - sorry if I misunderstood your question. I think the line above is where you lost me and others. I still wouldn't agree to having SNs run even though I don't think I have anything to hide View Quote |
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Yes, I was talking about a voluntary check. Seems some of you are ignorant
about what FMP, CG and game and fish can already do legally as far as stops and searches. My mindset was mostly on smaller motors but the same goes for bigger motors as well. Most people do not insure smaller boats and home owner's may not cover them or have most of the value under the deductible. When you are at the boat ramp getting straps undone and loading the boat it would not take any time for a LEO to check the serial number quickly. It would just be nice to lower the demand for stolen motors Do you LEO's ever do checks on craigslist ads? |
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For as long as I can remember people get their boat motors stolen and hardly ever get them back. I am a staunch supporter of freedom but have a hard time not believing it would be ok to let LEO's check my serial number/s if it could be done quickly. I believe this would lower the demand for stolen motors. What do you guys think? View Quote Most stolen motors end up in shipping containers. You can not get motor work done on a stolen motor in the US at a reputable marine mechanic. I even had to have my hull number to get parts from my 1996 proline. |
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Most stolen motors end up in shipping containers. You can not get motor work done on a stolen motor in the US at a reputable marine mechanic. I even had to have my hull number to get parts from my 1996 proline. View Quote to get it serviced anyway. |
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just trailing you BoAt is not Probable cause for SEARCH.
they should be required to get a warrant especially for inboards that require boarding. What exactly are they attempting to prevent? If you have an outboard they are easily stolen & easily replaceable. but there are illions of places to hide a stolen motor. and few pawn shops refuse them. |
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Yes, I was talking about a voluntary check. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Maybe they could incorporate it in the coast guard safety checks. Quoted:
Seems some of you are ignorant about what FMP, CG and game and fish can already do legally as far as stops and searches. |
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Involuntary boardings and safety inspections are not voluntary unless you're talking about the ones offered as a service by the auxiliary where you get the sticker. Part of me thinks people with stolen engines would never call for a voluntary check, but I suppose people have done dumber things!! I'm painfully aware of the ability and restrictions that apply to warrantless searches carried out under the authority of Title 14 section 89 of the United States Code, including the Maritime Law Enforcement Manual which establishes the ROEs for those searches. Recording visible markings would be permitted, but removing a cover or disassembling a device without PC/RS would not be (as I understand it). View Quote |
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No one is stopping you from letter a LEO check your property now. View Quote |
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For me, the boat ramp is a place that I like to operate professionally and smoothly.
Wifey and I work as a team to accomplish this. I check all equipment at home before we get there and make sure the engine starts. The boat ramp is a one minute deal. Over the years the FWC has made total idiots of themselves by slowing down the operation. I mean, they know me and know my boat and they know they can't find anything but still they persist... Between the FWC and the folks that bring a seadoo in the back of a pickup and back down fast, then jam the brakes thinking it will magically unload... You should be able to see where I am coming from. Like they say to me, "It's nothing personnal." But over the years it has become personnal. Heck, I have even been stopped 3 times in one day by the FWC. The last guy got an earful. |
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Best thing to do is require the engine serial number to appear with the VIN on the registration. Keep it behind the scenes and every year let a computer run the serials for renewals. Not perfect, but better than physical inspections.
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I know a bunch of you would be pissed if you knew how often your plate was called in.
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like we need even more government intrusion into our daily lives. I say no. I'd say to the officer, "get a warrant"
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I know a bunch of you would be pissed if you knew how often your plate was called in. View Quote Very few of my encounters with FWC were pleasant even with everything in perfect order. When I've actually needed the coast guard they were last on scene even being the closest. MDPD marine loves fishing expeditions on the water when your chasing tarpon in the cut. BCSO marine is more than happy to do safety inspections and clog ramps for the fun of it. ENP rangers will pull you over for 4mph over the speed limit on the main road and they love boat hopping for safety inspections even when your chasing a school of reds on a flat. Coral gables PD marine unit has always been polite and professional. I have lived and boated in Florida my entire life. I have zero reason to give any more power to marine enforcement than they already have. I am nothing if not too polite with every interaction and it is rarely returned. I'm sure they deal with dumbasses and rejects during their entire day, but you don't have to treat every encounter like a kid in a candy store hoping to dole out tickets. |
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Do you have your vin plates covered in your motor vehicles? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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I'd be happy to submit it with registration, but the ramp is already packed and a PITA, not to mention I don't want a "run-in" with FWC every time I leave the house, they already stop me enough
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I know a bunch of you would be pissed if you knew how often your plate was called in. View Quote |
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I just want to know how all the methheads that steal motors off boats know
how to get them in a smugglers network shipping container? Why are LEO's unaware if this if this network of smugglers is so open. The truth is that most don't. They are sold to private parties and are on the backs of john boats across the nation and thes people are not really worried because they are almost never checked. The idea about listing them on the boat registration is a good idea, however on smaller boats people may have more than one motor they use. |
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Do you have your vin plates covered in your motor vehicles? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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like we need even more government intrusion into our daily lives. I say no. I'd say to the officer, "get a warrant" and I thought the discussion was about boats. {face palm} Try to stay on subject. :) |
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I just want to know how all the methheads that steal motors off boats know how to get them in a smugglers network shipping container? Why are LEO's unaware if this if this network of smugglers is so open. The truth is that most don't. They are sold to private parties and are on the backs of john boats across the nation and thes people are not really worried because they are almost never checked. The idea about listing them on the boat registration is a good idea, however on smaller boats people may have more than one motor they use. View Quote |
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Why the concern for outboards? Stuff is stolen every day. Maybe we need yearly .gov audits of everything we own to make sure nothing is stolen since everyone is suspect it seems.
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I'm not sure if everyone one on here knows that if you have the current inspection sticker right beside your registration sticker the FWC may not pull you over for a safety inspection. They can pull you over if you have rods sticking up showing you have been fishing or have scuba equipment in view but not for safety inspection. Reason#1 while all my gear is stored out of view.
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All seriousness aside, this thread just shows how far out of the loop you are.
I is from Naples. All the stolen boats go to a chop shop in Meeami and then go who noes where! Only motors at the boat ramp are pieces of kaka that half azz run. Except for mine. Bottom line. |
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I had the marine patrol do a safety inspection on my boat that wasn't even in the water .
The boat was on the trailer and out in the parking lot . He told me he just got out of the academy. |
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I had the marine patrol do a safety inspection on my boat that wasn't even in the water . The boat was on the trailer and out in the parking lot . He told me he just got out of the academy. View Quote and cold day. He was waiting in his warm car when I pulled up to the dock. Pissed me off because I was ready to get into my warm truck and had to put up with his shit. We packed most of the safety equipment up while in the no wake zone leading up to the ramp. He came very close to giving me a ticket because it was not out. |
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I know I am chancing a karma explosion - but having been born/raised in Florida and having owned several boats - I have never been boarded or inspected.
Just last week I was out in my new to me Mako - the one that is registered, but I have not placed the sticker on it yet - as it is going through a restoration while in use. The sticker on the boat is from 2001 - yes, 2001. I had not one, but two different fish cops pass by me and I was sure to wave at both of them.....I have the registration/sticker on the boat with me.......I worked in LEO for over 20 years and never was piss tested.......I have been driving for 36 years or so and have never had a single point on my dl.....crazy - I know. |
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