Pistol in POV - AR15.COM

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Posted: 8/11/2012 5:52:15 AM EDT

I have a pistol holster that attaches under the steering column on my truck. It does not have any type clasp or “lock”. It’s actually a left hand leather open holster that attaches perfect. I have been told by a LEO that it’s fine as long as I have a CWP (my wife also has one). What are your thoughts? It seems when you ask various LEO’s CWP questions you get different answers.

Posted: 8/11/2012 7:02:34 AM EDT

[#1]

You'll probably beat the rap, but you might not beat the ride.

Get a holster with a conventional thumb strap. It will reduce your chance of taking the ride.

Answers form LEO are basically irrelevant if you want to know for certainty what is legal and what is not. Only the judge/jury or appeals court will make that determination.

Posted: 8/11/2012 7:08:08 AM EDT

[#2]

My understanding is that the pistol can be on your person with a permit; otherwise it must be securely encased. Without a thumbrake, strap or snap, your pistol in an open holster is NOT securely encased. Fabricate a simple velcro strap and you should be fully compliant.

Posted: 8/11/2012 7:28:55 AM EDT

[#3]

FL law states that the firearm or weapon must be securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use.

Posted: 8/11/2012 8:02:53 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
You'll probably beat the rap, but you might not beat the ride.

Get a holster with a conventional thumb strap. It will reduce your chance of taking the ride.

Answers form LEO are basically irrelevant if you want to know for certainty what is legal and what is not. Only the judge/jury or appeals court will make that determination.

The first point is dead on.

The second point is also correct, because questions about the legality of something from the individual LEO's perspective can vary based on how they approach the situation. What might be legal after introducing yourself, stating that you have a permit, and then pointing to it and asking may not be quite so legal after he pulls you over for running a stop sign and speeding.

Posted: 8/11/2012 11:25:50 AM EDT

[#5]

You said you have a CWP? If so, you are fine. If not, then you need a thumb break or other retention.

Posted: 8/11/2012 11:41:46 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
You said you have a CWP? If so, you are fine. If not, then you need a thumb break or other retention.

That is the answer; the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW.

Posted: 8/11/2012 12:33:53 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
I have a pistol holster that attaches under the steering column on my truck. It does not have any type clasp or “lock”. It’s actually a left hand leather open holster that attaches perfect. I have been told by a LEO that it’s fine as long as I have a CWP (my wife also has one). What are your thoughts? It seems when you ask various LEO’s CWP questions you get different answers.

Quoted:

Quoted:
You said you have a CWP? If so, you are fine. If not, then you need a thumb break or other retention.

That is the answer; the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW.

Out of curiosity, is it a holster like this?

If so, I'm not sure, because even with a CWFL so you don't need a thumb-break, it's still supposed to be concealed from plain view. So if a cop standing outside your window (for example, giving you a ticket) would be able to see it hanging there, I'm not sure you're in the clear.

I've often wondered about this, because I'd like to have one of those for my car, but I'm not sure of the legality.

ETA: Sorry for monster photo. It was smaller on their website, and the codes here don't allow resizing.

Posted: 8/11/2012 1:26:59 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have a pistol holster that attaches under the steering column on my truck. It does not have any type clasp or “lock”. It’s actually a left hand leather open holster that attaches perfect. I have been told by a LEO that it’s fine as long as I have a CWP (my wife also has one). What are your thoughts? It seems when you ask various LEO’s CWP questions you get different answers.

Quoted:

Quoted:
You said you have a CWP? If so, you are fine. If not, then you need a thumb break or other retention.

That is the answer; the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW.

Out of curiosity, is it a holster like this?

https://www.gumcreekcustoms.com/uploads/image/vehicle_mount3(1).jpg

If so, I'm not sure, because even with a CWFL so you don't need a thumb-break, it's still supposed to be concealed from plain view. So if a cop standing outside your window (for example, giving you a ticket) would be able to see it hanging there, I'm not sure you're in the clear.

I've often wondered about this, because I'd like to have one of those for my car, but I'm not sure of the legality.

ETA: Sorry for monster photo. It was smaller on their website, and the codes here don't allow resizing.

I too believe that may be the case. Even with CCW's I don't believe this method is considered concealed. Plus, it's not really concealed from someone walking by.

Posted: 8/11/2012 4:11:20 PM EDT

[#9]

This video should help you......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkY61L2Kj8s

Posted: 8/11/2012 7:13:45 PM EDT

[#10]

I use one in conjuction with a CWP and have never had an issue with it.

I do however, run an empty chamber with this rig because the pistol is pointed at my left ankle when braking.

Posted: 8/11/2012 10:07:16 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
This video should help you......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkY61L2Kj8s

Relevant portion is at 7:36.

The answer would seem to be to use a thumb break holster and you would likely be safe and legal (because a snap holster can literally be anywhere, even on the dash), or use an open holster (which needs to be "out of plain view), and take your chances on arguing on "how concealed it is."

Another remote possibility to consider is that a thumb break or snap holster lessens the chance of your weapon becoming a loose, rather heavy projectile in the case of an accident.

Posted: 8/12/2012 4:45:14 AM EDT

[#12]

I'm thinking that "open Carry" may apply to this situation. The post above, with the picture, would not be concealed. Open carry is not legal in Florida. I'd be nervous having a visible gun in that location when a cop approached my car after pulling me over for a violation. Good way to get drawn on!!!

Posted: 8/12/2012 8:16:08 AM EDT

[#13]

It not a "concealed vs open carry" issue, it's car carry. If you read my previous answer I wasn't asking a question, I was making a statement. Remember though - legal doesn't necessarily equal smart.

Posted: 8/12/2012 9:08:23 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
It not a "concealed vs open carry" issue, it's car carry. If you read my previous answer I wasn't asking a question, I was making a statement. Remember though - legal doesn't necessarily equal smart.

This is what I was thinking.
I know I'm a "good guy" but the leo I'm in contact with has no Idea who I am or what I'm about.

ETA quick CSB
On my 21st bday I was going to school and living in Orlando.
I purchased a S&W mod 60 .357 and saw a leo in the parking lot on my way out.
I said hello and asked if I could ask him a question..."Sure".
Sir I just purchased this pistol,whats the deal with having it in my car?
He said something like "if I pull you over and you don't tell me about it and I think your going for it;I'm putting one behind your FxxxING ear".
I NEVER FORGOT THAT and all interactions with Florida leo have been fine.

Posted: 8/12/2012 9:53:29 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You said you have a CWP? If so, you are fine. If not, then you need a thumb break or other retention.

That is the answer; the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW.

Gents, I'm having difficulty locating documentation on this. Are you advising thay if you have a permit, then you can legally have your loaded handgun anywhere in your vehicle, without it being securely encased? I know with a permit, you can have it on your person while in a vehicle, but I can't locate any documentation that exempts permit holders from following established vehicle transport laws, unless the weapon is actually on their person.

While its logical and many LEOs would probably give the permit holder the benefit of the doubt; is it legal for a permit holder to have a loaded handgun, just sitting on the passenger seat, the dash, their lap, etc...without it being securely encased. Laws may have changed within the past few years, but I can't locate an official statute or reference to confirm that.

Posted: 8/12/2012 10:48:16 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You said you have a CWP? If so, you are fine. If not, then you need a thumb break or other retention.

That is the answer; the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW.

Gents, I'm having difficulty locating documentation on this. Are you advising thay if you have a permit, then you can legally have your loaded handgun anywhere in your vehicle, without it being securely encased? I know with a permit, you can have it on your person while in a vehicle, but I can't locate any documentation that exempts permit holders from following established vehicle transport laws, unless the weapon is actually on their person.

While its logical and many LEOs would probably give the permit holder the benefit of the doubt; is it legal for a permit holder to have a loaded handgun, just sitting on the passenger seat, the dash, their lap, etc...without it being securely encased. Laws may have changed within the past few years, but I locate an official statute or reference to confirm that.

I'm quoting from John Gutmachers book since it's not available elctronically for me to link to. According to his opinion which I agree with:

CHART OF WHAT IS "SECURELY ENCASED": (pg 88)
in a snapped holster-anywhere-loaded or unloaded
in a closed console-loaded or unloaded
in a closed glove compartment-loaded or unloaded
in a zippered gun case-loaded or unloaded
in any other type of CLOSED container which the gun cannot be fired from until withdrawn-loaded or unloaded

Statute link:
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=790.25&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.25.html

The holster shown above needs a snap to be legal. If Gutmacher is right the issue is,is it securely encased, not is it visible.

All that being said beating the rap not the ride probably applies as far as a LEO seeing it during a traffic stop.

Edit cause I forgot to answer the question I quoted:
No case law exists thus far for those wanting to throw thier carry pistol under a towel in the seat next to them while posessing thier license as far as I know. Carrying it openly in your lap unsecurly encased is probably illegal.

Posted: 8/12/2012 1:05:08 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You said you have a CWP? If so, you are fine. If not, then you need a thumb break or other retention.

That is the answer; the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW.

Gents, I'm having difficulty locating documentation on this. Are you advising thay if you have a permit, then you can legally have your loaded handgun anywhere in your vehicle, without it being securely encased? I know with a permit, you can have it on your person while in a vehicle, but I can't locate any documentation that exempts permit holders from following established vehicle transport laws, unless the weapon is actually on their person.

While its logical and many LEOs would probably give the permit holder the benefit of the doubt; is it legal for a permit holder to have a loaded handgun, just sitting on the passenger seat, the dash, their lap, etc...without it being securely encased. Laws may have changed within the past few years, but I locate an official statute or reference to confirm that.

No, because in none of your examples is the weapon concealed from plain sight. The "securely encased" part isn't relevant for a permit holder. The visibility is.

"Securely encased" (for example: snap holster) + plain sight = OK FOR ANYONE
Not "securely encased" + plain sight = NOT OK FOR ANYONE, EVER
Not "securely encased" + concealed from plain view + no non-permitholders in the vehicle with you = OK
Not "securely encased" + concealed from plain view + non-permitholders in the vehicle with you = NOT OK (they could be charged with carrying a concealed weapon, a felony)

From Gutmacher's book (7th ed., page 82 & 88):

82: Carrying a concealed weapon under F.S. 790.01 means "on or about your person." "On or about" your person generally means within your reach or immediate control. Thus, with the permit you may legally carry your firearm or weapon in a briefcase, bag, etc. –– as well as on your immediate person, as long as it's concealed. Logically, this means you could have it within reach, under a towel in your car - although that's likely not a great idea. And no, it doesn't have to be in a holster!

88: ...it is my firm opinion (again, no case law) that a person with a valid CWP has the option of carrying a firearm either "securely encased" - or - fully concealed on or about their immediate person. Thus while I really don't recommend it –– if you have a CWP and wanted to put your firearm under a thick towel on the seat next to you within reaching distance –– my opinion is that it's covered by your permit as it is "concealed," and is therefore legal. However, make damn sure it's fully concealed - otherwise it's "open carry," and a misdemeanor!

ETA: red text in fourth example
ETA: more red text in first line

Posted: 8/12/2012 1:11:54 PM EDT

[#18]

Yes, very much like that...........

Posted: 8/12/2012 2:00:05 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You said you have a CWP? If so, you are fine. If not, then you need a thumb break or other retention.

That is the answer; the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW.

Gents, I'm having difficulty locating documentation on this. Are you advising thay if you have a permit, then you can legally have your loaded handgun anywhere in your vehicle, without it being securely encased? I know with a permit, you can have it on your person while in a vehicle, but I can't locate any documentation that exempts permit holders from following established vehicle transport laws, unless the weapon is actually on their person.

While its logical and many LEOs would probably give the permit holder the benefit of the doubt; is it legal for a permit holder to have a loaded handgun, just sitting on the passenger seat, the dash, their lap, etc...without it being securely encased. Laws may have changed within the past few years, but I locate an official statute or reference to confirm that.

No, because in none of your examples is the weapon concealed from plain sight. The "securely encased" part isn't relevant for a permit holder. The visibility is.

"Securely encased" (for example: snap holster) + plain sight = OK FOR ANYONE
Not "securely encased" + plain sight = NOT OK FOR ANYONE, EVER
Not "securely encased" + concealed from plain view + no non-permitholders in the vehicle with you = OK
Not "securely encased" + concealed from plain view + non-permitholders in the vehicle with you = NOT OK (they could be charged with carrying a concealed weapon, a felony)

From Gutmacher's book (7th ed., page 82 & 88):

82: Carrying a concealed weapon under F.S. 790.01 means "on or about your person." "On or about" your person generally means within your reach or immediate control. Thus, with the permit you may legally carry your firearm or weapon in a briefcase, bag, etc. –– as well as on your immediate person, as long as it's concealed. Logically, this means you could have it within reach, under a towel in your car - although that's likely not a great idea. And no, it doesn't have to be in a holster!

88: ...it is my firm opinion (again, no case law) that a person with a valid CWP has the option of carrying a firearm either "securely encased" - or - fully concealed on or about their immediate person. Thus while I really don't recommend it –– if you have a CWP and wanted to put your firearm under a thick towel on the seat next to you within reaching distance –– my opinion is that it's covered by your permit as it is "concealed," and is therefore legal. However, make damn sure it's fully concealed - otherwise it's "open carry," and a misdemeanor!

ETA: red text in fourth example
ETA: more red text in first line

This is what I was attempting to say when I said it's possibly a "carry Issue" Permit or not, you can't legally place a gun in sight that is not securely encased. The picture of the gun strapped to the bottom of a steering column without a snap is not legal or a good idea when being stopped.

Posted: 8/12/2012 2:03:07 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You said you have a CWP? If so, you are fine. If not, then you need a thumb break or other retention.

That is the answer; the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW.

Gents, I'm having difficulty locating documentation on this. Are you advising thay if you have a permit, then you can legally have your loaded handgun anywhere in your vehicle, without it being securely encased? I know with a permit, you can have it on your person while in a vehicle, but I can't locate any documentation that exempts permit holders from following established vehicle transport laws, unless the weapon is actually on their person.

While its logical and many LEOs would probably give the permit holder the benefit of the doubt; is it legal for a permit holder to have a loaded handgun, just sitting on the passenger seat, the dash, their lap, etc...without it being securely encased. Laws may have changed within the past few years, but I locate an official statute or reference to confirm that.

No, because in none of your examples is the weapon concealed from plain sight. The "securely encased" part isn't relevant for a permit holder. The visibility is.

The visibility part of the equation solves the mystery for me. Thanks Gents for your replies and a special thanks to Justmatt for the comprehensive post.

Posted: 8/12/2012 5:02:57 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You said you have a CWP? If so, you are fine. If not, then you need a thumb break or other retention.

That is the answer; the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW.

Where did you get this idea? Please quote a statue because you are quite wrong.

This topic is full of one bad advise followed by another. Just read the FAQ, the answer is there.

Posted: 8/13/2012 6:39:59 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You said you have a CWP? If so, you are fine. If not, then you need a thumb break or other retention.

That is the answer; the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW.

Where did you get this idea? Please quote a statue because you are quite wrong.
This topic is full of one bad advise followed by another. Just read the FAQ, the answer is there.

Herein lies the problem, Knife laws and statutes are often written in such a manner, that it can be interpreted in a myriad of different ways. Ergo, that's why we're having this discussing. If you're aware of a statute that adds clarity, please share it with the rest of us, along with your interpretation of what it means.

Posted: 8/14/2012 5:39:31 AM EDT

[#23]

I think I will just keep it secured in the center console, LOL

Posted: 8/14/2012 6:22:58 AM EDT

[#24]

Does a SERPA style holster count since you have to press a button?

Posted: 8/14/2012 6:30:21 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Does a SERPA style holster count since you have to press a button?

You'll definitely have to do your own research on that. I think I vaguely remember reading about that specific question a while back, but I don't remember where or what the answer was.

Posted: 8/14/2012 7:38:00 AM EDT

[#26]

In Florida statute 790 does not define "Open Carry", further there are conflicting case precedents in Florida as to what is and isn't considered "Open Carry" as applied to private conveyances. A cautious rule of thumb would suggest that if you can stand anywhere next to the vehicle and see the firearm that it is for the intent of this statute not sufficiently "concealed".

Statute 790.25 applies to "CONCEALED HANDGUNS" which are within the
interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or
other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use.

790.053 Open Carry of weapons.—

(1) Except
as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for
any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm

790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.—

(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.—Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01
for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or
other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the
interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or
other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use.

(2) USES NOT AUTHORIZED.—

(a) This section does not authorize carrying a concealed weapon without a permit, as prohibited by ss. 790.01 and 790.02.

790.01 Carrying concealed weapons.—

(2) A
person who carries a concealed firearm on or about his or her person
commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3) This
section does not apply to a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon
or a concealed firearm pursuant to the provisions of s. 790.06.
790.001 Definitions.—As used in this chapter, except where the context otherwise requires:

(2) "Concealed
firearm” means any firearm, as defined in subsection (6), which is
carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal the firearm
from the ordinary sight of another person.

(16) "Readily
accessible for immediate use” means that a firearm or other weapon is
carried on the person or within such close proximity and in such a
manner that it can be retrieved and used as easily and quickly as if
carried on the person.

(17) "Securely
encased” means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped
in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun
case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to
be opened for access.

Posted: 8/14/2012 9:05:46 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Does a SERPA style holster count since you have to press a button?

You'll definitely have to do your own research on that. I think I vaguely remember reading about that specific question a while back, but I don't remember where or what the answer was.

Based on the totality of circumstances surrounding the incident, the SAO in my judicial circuit filed a CCF charge in a situation you describe with a SERPA type retention holster. Guy plead out. If you understand it, the judicial process is like a poker game. He was willing to take a chance in setting case law at the DCA level, and correctly surmised that the defendant would plead out, as he was far from the poster boy for 2A rights. These threads of "Is this legal?" are simply a mental exercise for the most part.

Posted: 8/14/2012 10:14:10 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Does a SERPA style holster count since you have to press a button?

(17) "Securely
encased” means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped
in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun
case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to
be opened for access.

While the Serpa may fit the intent of the statute it does not fit the wording of the statute, I think you'd be pushing your luck.

Posted: 8/14/2012 10:30:39 AM EDT

[#29]

Probably not for me, to easy to shoot at bad drivers.... LOL

Posted: 8/15/2012 8:25:10 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You said you have a CWP? If so, you are fine. If not, then you need a thumb break or other retention.

That is the answer; the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW.

Where did you get this idea? Please quote a statue because you are quite wrong.
This topic is full of one bad advise followed by another. Just read the FAQ, the answer is there.

Herein lies the problem, Knife laws and statutes are often written in such a manner, that it can be interpreted in a myriad of different ways. Ergo, that's why we're having this discussing. If you're aware of a statute that adds clarity, please share it with the rest of us, along with your interpretation of what it means.

I already have, it's the sticky titled FAQ which includes case law ... Btw, I missed where the conversation went into knives ...

Posted: 8/15/2012 9:38:51 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Does a SERPA style holster count since you have to press a button?

(17) "Securely encased” means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

While the Serpa may fit the intent of the statute it does not fit the wording of the statute, I think you'd be pushing your luck.

Around here the State Attorney's legal advisor won't file if there is a holster involved due to the ambiguity of what "snapped" means (I got this from the legal advisor himself). But that may vary in other locations.

Posted: 8/16/2012 7:42:50 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Herein lies the problem, Knife laws and statutes are often written in such a manner, that it can be interpreted in a myriad of different ways. Ergo, that's why we're having this discussing. If you're aware of a statute that adds clarity, please share it with the rest of us, along with your interpretation of what it means.

I already have, it's the sticky titled FAQ which includes case law ... Btw, I missed where the conversation went into knives ...

Obviously, I meant Gun/CCW laws vice knife laws. Unfortunatley, knife laws can be very subjective too, leaving too much room for interpretation. I guess for me, I end up complicating the laws by trying to apply common sense; which is a big mistake, as laws don't always follow logic.

Posted: 8/16/2012 8:03:31 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:

You said you have a CWP? If so, you are fine. If not, then you need a thumb break or other retention.

That is the answer; the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW.

Where did you get this idea? Please quote a statue because you are quite wrong.

This topic is full of one bad advise followed by another. Just read the FAQ, the answer is there.

Posted: 8/17/2012 4:27:11 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You said you have a CWP? If so, you are fine. If not, then you need a thumb break or other retention.

That is the answer; the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW.

Where did you get this idea? Please quote a statue because you are quite wrong.

This topic is full of one bad advise followed by another. Just read the FAQ, the answer is there.

Where? Personally I believe it does apply if it is off your person in the vehicle and act accordingly. Neither the law or the FAQ is clear on this. In fact, you even answer by saying you as a permit holder can carry 'in between the seats, covered with a towel' but your "unlicensed" wife would be arrested as she does not have a permit.

So, which is it?

I don't think it is defined, and am not going to take a chance.

I am not busting your balls on this, I just want to be as clear as possible within the law. It seems to be an unclear portion of the law.

Anecdotal, I have been stopped three times. Firearm was in the glove box, center console, and bag in the back seat respectively. No issues with the officer in any of them.

Posted: 8/17/2012 12:00:07 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You said you have a CWP? If so, you are fine. If not, then you need a thumb break or other retention.

That is the answer; the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW.

Where did you get this idea? Please quote a statue because you are quite wrong.

This topic is full of one bad advise followed by another. Just read the FAQ, the answer is there.

From Florida's firearms statutes which are clear on this matter, in particular 790.25

The requirement for a handgun concealed in a private conveyance to be securely encased and not on their immediate person, or available for immediate use, is limited to those individuals not in possession of a concealed weapon or firearms license.

You got a concealed weapon or firearms license?

You can keep the damn gun on the floor concealed under your driver's seat.

Or concealed in your pocket,

Or concealed under a piece of fabric on your lap.

Or in a paper bag stuck between your legs.

Or concealed in a holster of any sort.

No license?

Snapped in a holster , in a case, in a box, in the center console or glove compartment but never on your person.

In any case, a handgun must be concealed from ordinary sight even in your vehicle.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0790/0790.html

From SGB's post on the matter; he is correct.

Statute 790.25 applies to "CONCEALED HANDGUNS" which are within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use

Posted: 8/17/2012 12:04:52 PM EDT

[#36]

Posted: 8/17/2012 12:05:59 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You said you have a CWP? If so, you are fine. If not, then you need a thumb break or other retention.

That is the answer; the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW.

Where did you get this idea? Please quote a statue because you are quite wrong.

This topic is full of one bad advise followed by another. Just read the FAQ, the answer is there.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0790/0790.html

Hey, thanks for being helpful.

I'm still working on that post see above.

Posted: 8/17/2012 2:34:26 PM EDT

[#38]

Blowing some opsec but here is what I did. The box is fairly heavy

gauge metal. The door is recessed and does not have much of a gap

around it to get a pry bar into. The latch is supported again prying

also. The key cannot be pulled out unless it is locked. I added an

o-ring to the lock mechanism to be able to turn the key half way.

I wrote a while back about a road rage incident where a guy

ran a red light and I almost hit him. He got mad and was screaming

at me, He got out off his vehicle and came at me fast screaming

and hollering about me speeding. This is the box I pulled the pistol

out of. It is easy to access and pretty good security when I have to leave

it in the vehicle.

Posted: 8/17/2012 4:45:47 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You said you have a CWP? If so, you are fine. If not, then you need a thumb break or other retention.

That is the answer; the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW.

Where did you get this idea? Please quote a statue because you are quite wrong.

This topic is full of one bad advise followed by another. Just read the FAQ, the answer is there.

From Florida's firearms statutes which are clear on this matter, in particular 790.25

The requirement for a handgun concealed in a private conveyance to be securely encased and not on their immediate person, or available for immediate use, is limited to those individuals not in possession of a concealed weapon or firearms license.

You got a concealed weapon or firearms license?

You can keep the damn gun on the floor concealed under your driver's seat.

Or concealed in your pocket,

Or concealed under a piece of fabric on your lap.

Or in a paper bag stuck between your legs.

Or concealed in a holster of any sort.

No license?

Snapped in a holster , in a case, in a box, in the center console or glove compartment but never on your person.

In any case, a handgun must be concealed from ordinary sight even in your vehicle.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0790/0790.html

From SGB's post on the matter; he is correct.

Statute 790.25 applies to "CONCEALED HANDGUNS" which are within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use

You stated "the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW" that is incorrect because a CCW holder with a gun, not concealed on or about their person, MUST follow the securely encased provision.

Posted: 8/17/2012 4:48:41 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You said you have a CWP? If so, you are fine. If not, then you need a thumb break or other retention.

That is the answer; the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW.

Where did you get this idea? Please quote a statue because you are quite wrong.

This topic is full of one bad advise followed by another. Just read the FAQ, the answer is there.

Where? Personally I believe it does apply if it is off your person in the vehicle and act accordingly. Neither the law or the FAQ is clear on this. In fact, you even answer by saying you as a permit holder can carry 'in between the seats, covered with a towel' but your "unlicensed" wife would be arrested as she does not have a permit.

So, which is it?

I don't think it is defined, and am not going to take a chance.

I am not busting your balls on this, I just want to be as clear as possible within the law. It seems to be an unclear portion of the law.

Anecdotal, I have been stopped three times. Firearm was in the glove box, center console, and bag in the back seat respectively. No issues with the officer in any of them.

I'm sorry, it seems pretty clear to me.

Posted: 8/17/2012 5:01:10 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You said you have a CWP? If so, you are fine. If not, then you need a thumb break or other retention.

That is the answer; the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW.

Where did you get this idea? Please quote a statue because you are quite wrong.

This topic is full of one bad advise followed by another. Just read the FAQ, the answer is there.

From Florida's firearms statutes which are clear on this matter, in particular 790.25

The requirement for a handgun concealed in a private conveyance to be securely encased and not on their immediate person, or available for immediate use, is limited to those individuals not in possession of a concealed weapon or firearms license.

You got a concealed weapon or firearms license?

You can keep the damn gun on the floor concealed under your driver's seat.

Or concealed in your pocket,

Or concealed under a piece of fabric on your lap.

Or in a paper bag stuck between your legs.

Or concealed in a holster of any sort.

No license?

Snapped in a holster , in a case, in a box, in the center console or glove compartment but never on your person.

In any case, a handgun must be concealed from ordinary sight even in your vehicle.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0790/0790.html

From SGB's post on the matter; he is correct.

Statute 790.25 applies to "CONCEALED HANDGUNS" which are within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use

You stated "the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW" that is incorrect because a CCW holder with a gun, not concealed on or about their person, MUST follow the securely encased provision.

An individual with a concealed weapon or firearms license can leave his handgun concealed under his driver's seat with no additional enclosure.

Only those without a license must keep their handgun "securely encased" to wit: unavailable for immediate use.

Section 790.25 allows for individuals without licenses to keep a loaded handgun in a private conveyance albeit with certain restrictions; it does not impose those restrictions on individuals with Concealed Weapons or Firearms Licenses, nor does it grant concealment on person privileges to those without such licenses.

790.25 is directed only at individuals who are not licensed to carry but wish to keep a loaded handgun concealed in their personal conveyances.

Now for the kicker; I just spoke with an attorney and in his opinion, even if you possess a Concealed Weapons or Firearms License, he believes if the handgun is not carried on your person, it must either be securely encased or alternatively, not available for immediate use.

I trust this guy and recommend everyone play it safe.

Posted: 8/17/2012 5:09:01 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:

From Florida's firearms statutes which are clear on this matter, in particular 790.25

The requirement for a handgun concealed in a private conveyance to be securely encased and not on their immediate person, or available for immediate use, is limited to those individuals not in possession of a concealed weapon or firearms license.

You got a concealed weapon or firearms license?

You can keep the damn gun on the floor concealed under your driver's seat.

Or concealed in your pocket,

Or concealed under a piece of fabric on your lap.

Or in a paper bag stuck between your legs.

Or concealed in a holster of any sort.

No license?

Snapped in a holster , in a case, in a box, in the center console or glove compartment but never on your person.

In any case, a handgun must be concealed from ordinary sight even in your vehicle.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0790/0790.html

From SGB's post on the matter; he is correct.

Statute 790.25 applies to "CONCEALED HANDGUNS" which are within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use

You stated "the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW" that is incorrect because a CCW holder with a gun, not concealed on or about their person, MUST follow the securely encased provision.

An individual with a concealed weapon or firearms license can leave his handgun concealed under his driver's seat with no additional enclosure.

Only those without a license must keep their handgun "securely encased" to wit: unavailable for immediate use.

Section 790.25 allows for individuals without licenses to keep a loaded handgun in a private conveyance albeit with certain restrictions; it does not impose those restrictions on individuals with Concealed Weapons or Firearms Licenses, nor does it grant concealment on person privileges to those without such licenses.

790.25 is directed only at individuals who are not licensed to carry but wish to keep a loaded handgun concealed in their personal conveyances.

I concur with America-first's post

Posted: 8/17/2012 5:34:21 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:

From Florida's firearms statutes which are clear on this matter, in particular 790.25

The requirement for a handgun concealed in a private conveyance to be securely encased and not on their immediate person, or available for immediate use, is limited to those individuals not in possession of a concealed weapon or firearms license.

You got a concealed weapon or firearms license?

You can keep the damn gun on the floor concealed under your driver's seat.

Or concealed in your pocket,

Or concealed under a piece of fabric on your lap.

Or in a paper bag stuck between your legs.

Or concealed in a holster of any sort.

No license?

Snapped in a holster , in a case, in a box, in the center console or glove compartment but never on your person.

In any case, a handgun must be concealed from ordinary sight even in your vehicle.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0790/0790.html

From SGB's post on the matter; he is correct.

Statute 790.25 applies to "CONCEALED HANDGUNS" which are within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use

You stated "the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW" that is incorrect because a CCW holder with a gun, not concealed on or about their person, MUST follow the securely encased provision.

An individual with a concealed weapon or firearms license can leave his handgun concealed under his driver's seat with no additional enclosure.

Only those without a license must keep their handgun "securely encased" to wit: unavailable for immediate use.

Section 790.25 allows for individuals without licenses to keep a loaded handgun in a private conveyance albeit with certain restrictions; it does not impose those restrictions on individuals with Concealed Weapons or Firearms Licenses, nor does it grant concealment on person privileges to those without such licenses.

790.25 is directed only at individuals who are not licensed to carry but wish to keep a loaded handgun concealed in their personal conveyances.

I concur with America-first's post

Please re read what I posted immediately above, an attorney, whose opinion I respect, just recommended to me that if your handgun is not carried on your person it should be either securely encased, or not available for immediate use.

Posted: 8/17/2012 6:59:48 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Please re read what I posted immediately above, an attorney, whose opinion I respect, just recommended to me that if your handgun is not carried on your person it should be either securely encased, or not available for immediate use.

With all due respect to your lawyer friend, I disagree. Not because I'm smarter, and fully realizing he went to school and gets paid to do this, but because his opinion differs from literally everything I've ever read on the subject, including that which was written by other lawyers who specialize in firearms law.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 8/17/2012 7:24:56 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Please re read what I posted immediately above, an attorney, whose opinion I respect, just recommended to me that if your handgun is not carried on your person it should be either securely encased, or not available for immediate use.

Your Attorney friend is incorrect, respectfully. Your assessment is correct.

Posted: 8/17/2012 7:58:18 PM EDT

[#46]

One of the earliest posts in this thread is still the most important, and wise.

You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride.

Gambling on local law enforcement to be paragons of virtue, and master scholars of the legal realm, as protection against criminal weapons charges...is a poor strategy to place your freedom and security upon. I've met plenty of cops that would literally look the other way in cases if they caught someone unintentionally in possession of an illegal machinegun or short-barrel rifle. I've also met plenty of cops who didn't know what end the bullets are emitted from, and whose general response to matters of weapons law could be summarized as "When in doubt, arrest everyone in sight."

You don't want to be That Guy. You really don't want to be That Guy sitting in lockup overnight, forced to plead out to some bullshit misdemeanor charge that will follow you until you're six feet under and beyond.

Don't carry pistols in retarded-ass car holsters. Don't carry pistols in openly-visible holsters (this advice applies when outside the vehicle as well, for that matter). Don't push the buttons, and in Gutmacher's famous words, don't become a test case. Stay the gray man, my friends.

Posted: 8/18/2012 5:31:47 AM EDT

[#47]

Deleted all the crap I wrote here since I pretty much wrote it again below ...

Posted: 8/18/2012 5:43:59 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Please re read what I posted immediately above, an attorney, whose opinion I respect, just recommended to me that if your handgun is not carried on your person it should be either securely encased, or not available for immediate use.

Your Attorney friend is incorrect, respectfully. Your assessment is correct.

We are all saying the same shit here, including the lawyer. I think we all agree that a CWL holder can have a gun anywhere in the car concealed legally. And we all agree that a CWL holder needs to keep the firearm securely encased if it's not concealed. We probably all agree that adding a non-CWL holder will mix things up and lets just not cloud this conversation with that as well.

I think we are disagreeing in semantics, not implications. I have a problem with anyone saying that a CWL holder is excluded from the securely encased provision because if it's not concealed, it needs to be encased. It's an absolute statement that is incorrect. If you were to say a CWL holder is excluded from the provision while the firearm is concealed, then I would agree with it.

Posted: 8/18/2012 6:02:03 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You said you have a CWP? If so, you are fine. If not, then you need a thumb break or other retention.

That is the answer; the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW.

Where did you get this idea? Please quote a statue because you are quite wrong.

This topic is full of one bad advise followed by another. Just read the FAQ, the answer is there.

From Florida's firearms statutes which are clear on this matter, in particular 790.25

The requirement for a handgun concealed in a private conveyance to be securely encased and not on their immediate person, or available for immediate use, is limited to those individuals not in possession of a concealed weapon or firearms license.

You got a concealed weapon or firearms license?

You can keep the damn gun on the floor concealed under your driver's seat.

Or concealed in your pocket,

Or concealed under a piece of fabric on your lap.

Or in a paper bag stuck between your legs.

Or concealed in a holster of any sort.

No license?

Snapped in a holster , in a case, in a box, in the center console or glove compartment but never on your person.

In any case, a handgun must be concealed from ordinary sight even in your vehicle.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0790/0790.html

From SGB's post on the matter; he is correct.

Statute 790.25 applies to "CONCEALED HANDGUNS" which are within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use

You stated "the "securely encased" provision applies only to those without a CCW" that is incorrect because a CCW holder with a gun, not concealed on or about their person, MUST follow the securely encased provision.

An individual with a concealed weapon or firearms license can leave his handgun concealed under his driver's seat with no additional enclosure.

Only those without a license must keep their handgun "securely encased" to wit: unavailable for immediate use.

Section 790.25 allows for individuals without licenses to keep a loaded handgun in a private conveyance albeit with certain restrictions; it does not impose those restrictions on individuals with Concealed Weapons or Firearms Licenses, nor does it grant concealment on person privileges to those without such licenses.

790.25 is directed only at individuals who are not licensed to carry but wish to keep a loaded handgun concealed in their personal conveyances.

Now for the kicker; I just spoke with an attorney and in his opinion, even if you possess a Concealed Weapons or Firearms License, he believes if the handgun is not carried on your person, it must either be securely encased or alternatively, not available for immediate use.

I trust this guy and recommend everyone play it safe.

You, and the attorney, are saying the exact same thing I have said and posted on the CWL FAQ. But the statement you previously made that I said was incorrect conflicts with this. You said CWL holders are exempt from the securely encased provision and that is not true. Like you just posted, if it is not on or about them concealed, the law requires it to be securely encased, or not readily accessible.

I passed on the attorney's opinion which is in disagreement with my own, because I thought I was morally obligated to, in light of what I had said on the subject.

Both SGB and myself have posted 790.25, the statute which allows for the possession, by unlicensed individuals, of a loaded handgun in a private conveyance as the applicable statute in this matter.

Additionally, I have posted a hot link to the Florida Statutes that apply to firearms in their enirety.

Can you please hilight the section that states 790.25 applies to individuals in possession of a Concealed Weapon or Firearms Permit?

Or alternatively, another Florida statute that places the same requirement on licensed concealed firearms carriers?

I understand the need for discretion and not pushing the envelope because not all LEOs truly understand the law; but I'd still like to see an actual statute that supports your assertion.

Not looking for an argument, only the truth of the matter.

Posted: 8/18/2012 6:43:40 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

We agree as to 790.25(5) not superseding or placing limitations/restrictions upon 790.06.

However I'd point out that the common misconception that a snapped holster in and of itself fulfills the requirements of 790.25(5). A snapped holster in and of itself does not make the firearm CONCEALED, under 790.25(5) the firearm must me CONCEALED within the interior of the private conveyance AND securely encased OR not readily accessible. 790.25(5) does not suspend 790.053 (Open carrying of weapons.) (2), it is unlawful for
any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or
electric weapon or device.

790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.—

(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.—Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01
for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or
other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the
interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or
other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible
for immediate use.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Pistol in POV (Page 1 of 2)

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