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PsycHeadShrinker
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Posted: 8/10/2012 12:24:47 PM

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
I haven't been to the gunshow in awhile, but there's one this weekend in West Palm Beach I wanted to go to to try to sell a couple guns. How do yall go about advertising you have a gun for sale? Also, I've never sold in a private sale at a gunshow so any tips/advice anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
ForensicDoc
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Posted: 8/10/2012 1:10:38 PM
This may sound goofy, but it has worked for me. Bascially, I type a very brief ad with a price and print it on regular paper, just in the biggest font that will fit and print it in landscape mode. I make two signs, one will be on my chest and one for my back. I secure them by making a "harness" using clear packing tape, one piece over each shoulder. Nothing too elaborate. I do this because IMHO, pins may tear the paper. I hope this makes sense.
docslester
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Posted: 8/10/2012 1:35:08 PM
Remember, as absurd as it is, I understand there is a "no private sales between attendees" law in Palm Beach Co. at the gun shows unless it goes through a dealer, or you sell to a dealer. Rumor has it this sometimes occurs, but once in a while you hear of someone running afoul of it. Of course YMMV, but beware.
PsycHeadShrinker
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Posted: 8/10/2012 1:49:00 PM
Thanks for the info docslester. I wasn't aware of that law. I guess I won't be selling my gun at the show.
docslester
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Posted: 8/10/2012 2:54:12 PM
There is, however, a gun show in Port St Lucie on 8/25 and 8/26. They have no such absurd law up here. Private sales are allowed. Don't know how far away you are but that might be a thought.
TailHunter
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Posted: 8/10/2012 3:02:54 PM
Originally Posted By docslester:
Remember, as absurd as it is, I understand there is a "no private sales between attendees" law in Palm Beach Co. at the gun shows unless it goes through a dealer, or you sell to a dealer. Rumor has it this sometimes occurs, but once in a while you hear of someone running afoul of it. Of course YMMV, but beware.


How can this not be in violation of the state preemption law?
Common Sense isn't as Common as Commonly Thought
JeffB
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Posted: 8/10/2012 3:04:43 PM
Originally Posted By TailHunter:
Originally Posted By docslester:
Remember, as absurd as it is, I understand there is a "no private sales between attendees" law in Palm Beach Co. at the gun shows unless it goes through a dealer, or you sell to a dealer. Rumor has it this sometimes occurs, but once in a while you hear of someone running afoul of it. Of course YMMV, but beware.


How can this not be in violation of the state preemption law?


Ditto
Scientia Est Potentia
America-first
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Posted: 8/10/2012 3:12:59 PM
People selling long guns at the wpb show carry them on their shoulders with for sales signs attached to wooden dowels inserted in the barrels.
No single raindrop believes it is responsible for the flood.

AN EMPTY BARREL ALWAYS MAKES THE MOST NOISE.
docslester
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Posted: 8/10/2012 3:21:55 PM
I would love to see someone take on Palm Beach County over this, but they have an county ordinance they MAY at their discretion, try to charge someone with. As for myself, I make my BUYS off of county property. A harmless discusion over the theoritical value of a firearm at the show is of course entirely legal.
America-first
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Posted: 8/10/2012 3:28:43 PM
Originally Posted By docslester:
I would love to see someone take on Palm Beach County over this, but they have an county ordinance they MAY at their discretion, try to charge someone with. As for myself, I make my BUYS off of county property. A harmless discusion over the theoritical value of a firearm at the show is of course entirely legal.


Please post the law you are referencing which states that private sales, even to ccw holders, are " illegal" at the WPB show
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docslester
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Posted: 8/10/2012 3:41:08 PM
[Last Edit: 8/10/2012 3:47:31 PM by docslester]
I'm not going to try to find the exact ordinance number as I'm too lazy. However I will refer you to one of the last discussions I followed at Fl Shooter Network

http://www.floridashootersnetwork.com/read-this-florida-gun-trader-did-miss-something-t66882.html

As I stated, I would love to see this stuffed down PBC's craw. But it won't be by me. Further more I have read Broward/Dade have the same in place.

I've been going to shows in PBC for 25 years. I have seen the signs in the past. HOWEVER I have not been to one this year, but I AM going tomorrow afternoon as soon as my RO shift is over!

I'll ask at the ATF table what their interpretation is of PBC's law.
Rocksarge
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Posted: 8/10/2012 4:06:15 PM
I'm a Psl guy and refuse to attend pbc show cause they have arrested people and right or wrong I don't want to lose my licenses.
This is von Clausewitz shit, total fucking war. I'm going to pull the whole thing down. I'm gonna pull the whole thing down. I'm gonna bring the whole fuckin' diseased, corrupt temple down on your head. It's gonna be biblical.

-Clyde Shelton
America-first
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Posted: 8/10/2012 4:52:37 PM
[Last Edit: 8/10/2012 5:02:43 PM by America-first]
Florida Constitution, Article VIII, Section 5 (b):

Each county shall have the authority to require a criminal history records check and a 3 to 5-day waiting period, excluding weekends and legal holidays, in connection with the sale of any firearm occurring within such county. For purposes of this subsection, the term “sale” means the transfer of money or other valuable consideration for any firearm when any part of the transaction is conducted on property to which the public has the right of access. Holders of a concealed weapons permit as prescribed by general law shall not be subject to the provisions of this subsection when purchasing a firearm.

When selling a firearm in Palm Beach County, on property to which the public has the right of access; stick to selling to individuals who posess a Concealed Weapon and Firearms License.

Despite the state preemption laws, counties still have the constitutional authority to restrict sales in the manner posted above, along with the appropriate Article and Section of our state's constitution that empowers them to do so.
No single raindrop believes it is responsible for the flood.

AN EMPTY BARREL ALWAYS MAKES THE MOST NOISE.
America-first
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Posted: 8/10/2012 10:02:20 PM
[Last Edit: 8/10/2012 10:03:17 PM by America-first]
The Palm Beach County Ordinance:




Sec. 28-23. Mandatory waiting period;
Criminal history records check
requirement.
(a) No person shall deliver a firearm to
another person, other than a licensed dealer,
licensed manufacturer or licensed importer, in
connection with the sale of such firearm for a
period of five (5) business days from the date
of the sale.
(b) No person shall deliver a firearm to
another person, other than a licensed dealer,
licensed manufacturer or licensed importer, in
connection with the sale of such firearm until
the seller, either directly or through a licensed
dealer, licensed manufacturer or licensed
importer, has:
(1) Requested a national criminal history
records check of the potential purchaser or
transferee of the firearm from FDLE or NICS,
and
(2) Received an approval / identification
number from FDLE or NICS signifying the
potential purchaser or transferee of the
firearm would not be prohibited by state or
federal law from receiving or possessing a
firearm.
(c) The provisions of this section shall not
apply to holders of a concealed weapons
permit issued pursuant to general law of the
State of Florida when purchasing a
firearm.(Ord. No. 2006-54)

Sec. 28-24. Enforcement. It shall be the duty
and responsibility of law enforcement officers
within their respective jurisdictions to enforce
this article and all related state laws. (Ord. No.
99-5)
Sec. 28-25. Penalty. Any person convicted of
a violation of any of provision of this article
shall be punished in accordance with section
125.69(1), Florida Statutes, as may be
amended, by a fine not to exceed five
hundred dollars ($500.00) per violation or by
imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed
sixty (60) days or by both such fine and
imprisonment. Each violation of this article
shall constitute a separate offense. In addition
to the sanctions contained herein, the county
shall be authorized to take any other
appropriate legal action, including, but not
limited to, seeking cease and desist orders,
instituting other administrative actions, and
requesting temporary and permanent
injunctions to enforce the provisions of this
article. It is the purpose of this article to
provide additional and cumulative
remedies.
No single raindrop believes it is responsible for the flood.

AN EMPTY BARREL ALWAYS MAKES THE MOST NOISE.
jimmyzline
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Posted: 8/11/2012 6:37:18 AM
No county ordinance may supersede the Florida state legislature on the regulation of firearms. Period. No exceptions.

Florida Statute 790.33

GurkaDin
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Posted: 8/11/2012 7:10:31 AM
Originally Posted By TailHunter:
Originally Posted By docslester:
Remember, as absurd as it is, I understand there is a "no private sales between attendees" law in Palm Beach Co. at the gun shows unless it goes through a dealer, or you sell to a dealer. Rumor has it this sometimes occurs, but once in a while you hear of someone running afoul of it. Of course YMMV, but beware.


How can this not be in violation of the state preemption law?


My thought.

America-first
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Posted: 8/11/2012 7:12:47 AM
[Last Edit: 8/11/2012 7:17:46 AM by America-first]
Originally Posted By jimmyzline:
No county ordinance may supersede the Florida state legislature on the regulation of firearms. Period. No exceptions.

Florida Statute 790.33




790.33 Field of regulation of firearms and ammunition preempted.—
(1) PREEMPTION.—Except as expressly provided by the State Constitution or general law, the Legislature hereby declares that it is occupying the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition, including the purchase, sale, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, storage, and transportation thereof, to the exclusion of all existing and future county, city, town, or municipal ordinances or any administrative regulations or rules adopted by local or state government relating thereto. Any such existing ordinances, rules, or regulations are hereby declared null and void.







Florida Constitution, Article VIII, Section 5 (b):


Each county shall have the authority to require a criminal history records check and a 3 to 5-day waiting period, excluding weekends and legal holidays, in connection with the sale of any firearm occurring within such county. For purposes of this subsection, the term “sale” means the transfer of money or other valuable consideration for any firearm when any part of the transaction is conducted on property to which the public has the right of access. Holders of a concealed weapons permit as prescribed by general law shall not be subject to the provisions of this subsection when purchasing a firearm.
No single raindrop believes it is responsible for the flood.

AN EMPTY BARREL ALWAYS MAKES THE MOST NOISE.
America-first
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Posted: 8/11/2012 7:30:12 AM
Originally Posted By PsycHeadShrinker:
Thanks for the info docslester. I wasn't aware of that law. I guess I won't be selling my gun at the show.


Sell your gun at the show in a private sale to a concealed weapons license holder.........profit.
No single raindrop believes it is responsible for the flood.

AN EMPTY BARREL ALWAYS MAKES THE MOST NOISE.
survivorman
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Posted: 8/11/2012 10:34:38 AM
[Last Edit: 8/11/2012 10:34:57 AM by survivorman]
Yup or leave the gun show and walk down one block to sell your gun
JThompson
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Posted: 8/11/2012 12:17:22 PM
I like to tape a sign to a wooden dowel and place it down the barrel of the rifle so as I walk around it is high enough to catch peoples eye and the font is large enough to read from a few feet away.
I can't think of anything to say. Nada, zip, nothing.
America-first
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Posted: 8/11/2012 1:34:34 PM
Originally Posted By survivorman:
Yup or leave the gun show and walk down one block to sell your gun


If you have been "set up" at the show, then walking down the block still leaves you in violation of the Palm Beach County Ordinance because unless you are on private property that is not open to the general public, a waiting period and background check is required for the sale unless the individual to whom you are selling has a CCW.

In which case you could merely have sold the gun legally right at the show.

I just returned from the show and there were quite a few people walking around looking to make private sales.

Legitimate private sellers/traders who have tables only sell to individuals with CCWs to stay in compliance.

To state that private sales aren't allowed at the WPB gunshow due to some county law is incorrect.
No single raindrop believes it is responsible for the flood.

AN EMPTY BARREL ALWAYS MAKES THE MOST NOISE.
docslester
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Posted: 8/11/2012 6:44:00 PM
Ok guys, I just walked in the door coming from the WPB gunshow. I looked up the promoter, (guys in red shirts by the door) spoke pointedly to the two pretty polite deputies at the Palm Beach County Sherrifs table at the front of the show, and briefly to the BATFE agents at the table beside them. I politely and very pointedly asked all three "Are private sales between attendees, with or without CCW's legal at WPB county gun shows?" All three stated emphatically "NO." The promoter said it is because of, wait for it, "A county ordinance." He went on at length that they have in the last six months quit displaying their sign stating such as he has gotten tired of argueing with people about the preemption law, but their stance is the ordinance IS still in effect per Florida law. The PBCSO officer said pretty much the same thing, with the added info he has not arrested people for it, but asks them to leave the show, and the county's property entirely, and has not HAD to arrest anyone after telling them that. He also said he fully expects someone to eventually take it to court, but said it will have to go to the Florida supreme court to be put to bed one way or the other(?)

We can argue semantics, whether it's actually legal or not, whether it's right or not, (I say absolutely NOT!), or quote law on this site all we want, but that is their stance on the subject.