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Banditman
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Posted: 4/12/2012 12:07:09 PM
I heard a woman on the radio yesterday say that they bussed in the SEIU.
This got me thinking about how lines are being drawn.

You guys keep your SA up.
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Posted: 4/12/2012 12:16:05 PM
[Last Edit: 4/12/2012 12:23:44 PM by America-first]
Originally Posted By TailHunter:
This may not even go to a full trial.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-george-zimmerman-stand-your-ground-hearings-20120411,0,1910930.story

George Zimmerman can ask to have the second-degree-murder charge against him dropped without having to stand trial in the death of Trayvon Martin.

Two years ago, the Florida Supreme Court ruled that anyone claiming "stand your ground" immunity in a death, battery or assault case can request a hearing on the evidence.

The hearing allows the prosecution and defense to argue all the elements of self-defense in the case evidence. To get charges dismissed, the accused must convince the judge that a reasonable person would believe that using deadly force or the threat of deadly force was the only way to protect his or her life, court records show.


I'm sure that Zimmerman's lawyer will ask for charges to,be dropped but do you believe that a judge will have the guts to proceed according to law rather than to succumb to political pressure and an angry mob?

I still have not given up on the State of Florida's legal system and I still hold out hope that the law will be followed rather than the sacrifice of a man to political expediency and a show trial.

The law is clear in this matter, whether or not it will be followed is another matter entirely.

Thanks for allowing this thread Sam; too many of the out of staters don't understand our laws, don't want to understand our laws, or outright do not like our self defense laws and want to see them either overturned or destroyed by new case law.

I have had numerous arguments with my wife over the years wherein I lamented the lack of freedom in certain states and her answer to me was always the same....." they like their laws; that's what most of them really want ".

Now I see she was right.

I don't want to have to live in fearof criminals.... or the legal system, both criminal and civil, if I have legitimate need to use deadly force to defend myself from them.
No single raindrop believes it is responsible for the flood.

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Posted: 4/12/2012 4:49:38 PM
[Last Edit: 4/12/2012 4:50:50 PM by dan2013]
I was just driving to the Post Office to drop off a few shipments for the company. During my 5 minute commute over there I was listening to Gainesville/Ocala's 97.3 The Sky "Drive Time Happy Hour". A news report came on as usual and the reporter relayed a story from Gainesville. The story went something like this:

Yesterday (Wednesday 4/11/12) a white woman's purse was snatched from her by a black man in the Bo Diddley Plaza in Gainesville, FL. The white man who was with her tackled the perp. A crowd surrounded them and in mob fashion started to chant "TRAYVON! TRAYVON! TRAYVON!" Even though there were dozens of witnesses to what had happened and the white man was trying to explain why he tackled the black man, the mob was still chanting and even stomping on the white man's hands.

So I get back to the office and try to find this story online. I cannot find it anywhere. This has me smoking hot. It has gone way too far. The whites are not the racists in this Trayvon/Zimmerman stuff.
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Posted: 4/12/2012 7:44:49 PM
[Last Edit: 4/12/2012 7:47:42 PM by ReefRaider]
Here's my prediction

Z will go to jury on this charge. He might beat it IF he gets a REAL GOOD lawyer. Even IF he beats it there is a good chance the FED will bring charges of their own down on him.

ETA If he had as much money as OJ did. Then for sure he could beat this charge.
"There is a fine line between having balls and being a dumb ass" GB

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America-first
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Posted: 4/12/2012 10:04:20 PM
They are now claiming that the reason that Zimmerman was charged is that he was "profiling" Martin.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/george-zimmerman-charged-2nd-degree-murder-trayvon-martin-143832017.html

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Posted: 4/12/2012 10:35:21 PM
[Last Edit: 4/12/2012 10:35:40 PM by SGB]
Me thinks it stinks of politics
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Posted: 4/12/2012 11:03:18 PM
Is it even illegal for a private citizen to "profile" another individual based on his appearance and behavior?

Doesn't everyone do that day in and day out?

I realize they are attempting to sow the seeds of "intent" behind Zimmerman's actions that night, but "profiling"?
No single raindrop believes it is responsible for the flood.

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Posted: 4/12/2012 11:25:24 PM
Originally Posted By America-first:
They are now claiming that the reason that Zimmerman was charged is that he was "profiling" Martin.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/george-zimmerman-charged-2nd-degree-murder-trayvon-martin-143832017.html



Doesn't everyone profile?
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Posted: 4/13/2012 5:25:58 AM
The States probable cause affidavit reads like it was drafted by the NBC producer that got fired for doctoring the tape.


Harvard Prof. Alan Dershowitz: Zimmerman Arrest Affidavit ‘Irresponsible And Unethical’
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osprey21
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Posted: 4/13/2012 5:58:26 AM

Originally Posted By SGB:
Me thinks it stinks of politics

Me thinks you are spot on.
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Posted: 4/13/2012 6:29:07 AM
[Last Edit: 4/13/2012 6:44:21 AM by America-first]

Originally Posted By SGB:
The States probable cause affidavit reads like it was drafted by the NBC producer that got fired for doctoring the tape.


Harvard Prof. Alan Dershowitz: Zimmerman Arrest Affidavit ‘Irresponsible And Unethical’


From what Dershowitz said, it sounds like all Zimmerman will need to have the charge dismissed is for his case to come before an ethical judge who will impartially apply the law.

Previous to the indictment, I believed Angela Corey to be an honest public servant, though after listening to the pandering "campaign speech" she gave when she announced the second degree murder charge, I now know otherwise.

IMO, the worst outrage of any that a government can perpetrate against the people is to conduct political arrests and trials against its citizens; it's the mark of tyranny.

Our self defense laws were written to protect the crime victim from a rabid media and political pressure, as well as politically minded prosecutions and idiotic, pliable minded jurors.

I honestly didn't know what to believe in this matter, but because the media has poisoned any available information; I'm going to go with what Dershowitz has said.

I am disappointed in Angela Corey to the point of disgust; idiot that I am, I honestly believed our system was better, and that she in particular, would abide by the law.


With a fraudulent affadivit of probable cause, the prosecution of Zimmerman is a perversion of both the law and justice as well.

No single raindrop believes it is responsible for the flood.

AN EMPTY BARREL ALWAYS MAKES THE MOST NOISE.
PR361
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Posted: 4/13/2012 9:49:13 AM
Originally Posted By toyotaman:
Anyone here actually live in Sanford? What's it like there right now?


I live in Sanford, and drive by the "Memorial" at the front gate of Twin Lakes Retreat on almost a daily basis. Myself or the Mrs are there twice a day on weekdays. It is directly across a small two lane street from the entrance of my kids elementary school.

The police car that was shot up was on school property, the shots were fired toward the school. Fortunatally this was done by cowards in the night, when no children were present.

So yes, I am directly impacted by this.

That said, the impact has been minimal. The people here are calm, and friendly. I have not had a single incident of so much as an angry look. In fact, I would go so far as to say the locals are bending over backwards to be nice. Everyone nods and waves, as if to say" hey man,, it ain't me that's making a fuss"

Obviously we have differing views in many cases, but no one is arguing it in public.

I had my kids birthday party in Ft Mellon Park, where all the protests,l rallies and marches originated only hours after one of the marches left on March 30. No hassles, no angry mob.

I've attended Baseball games with large mixed crowds, it was business as usual, all about the game and the kids.

I belive that the media is responsible for most of the protests, and the majority of the protesters are arriving from outside of the area, inflamed by the media.

There is a local contingent, but most of them are well reasoned and peaceful. If you watched when " Reverand Al" made his stupid speach here about boycotting businesses until and arrest was made, the local NAACP Leader from Sanford who followed him clearely stated " We Don't support Rv. Sharptons call for a boycott" . The stupid is mostley coming from outside the area.

I may yet be proved wrong, but thats my view from living inside of it.
PR361
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Posted: 4/13/2012 10:08:43 AM
Originally Posted By America-first:

Originally Posted By SGB:
The States probable cause affidavit reads like it was drafted by the NBC producer that got fired for doctoring the tape.


Harvard Prof. Alan Dershowitz: Zimmerman Arrest Affidavit ‘Irresponsible And Unethical’


From what Dershowitz said, it sounds like all Zimmerman will need to have the charge dismissed is for his case to come before an ethical judge who will impartially apply the law.

Previous to the indictment, I believed Angela Corey to be an honest public servant, though after listening to the pandering "campaign speech" she gave when she announced the second degree murder charge, I now know otherwise.

IMO, the worst outrage of any that a government can perpetrate against the people is to conduct political arrests and trials against its citizens; it's the mark of tyranny.

Our self defense laws were written to protect the crime victim from a rabid media and political pressure, as well as politically minded prosecutions and idiotic, pliable minded jurors.

I honestly didn't know what to believe in this matter, but because the media has poisoned any available information; I'm going to go with what Dershowitz has said.

I am disappointed in Angela Corey to the point of disgust; idiot that I am, I honestly believed our system was better, and that she in particular, would abide by the law.


With a fraudulent affadivit of probable cause, the prosecution of Zimmerman is a perversion of both the law and justice as well.



I threw this out in GD, but play along for a minute while I spring my " Conspiracy Theory" on you.

I'm considering the possibility that the affadavit, and charges are intentionally weak and over reaching.

Angela Corey was tasked by Gov. Scott to resolve this and make it go away. It is a huge, festering boil on the state, ready to explode. It needs to be diffused.

How do you do that? You cannot simply not charge the man. There are millions of people emotionally vested in seeing him charged, convinced he commited murder. They are stupid and wrong, but still there, and vocal. They must be answered to be quieted.

So you charge Zimmerman. You charge him with a ridiculous, over reaching MURDER charge, backed by a weak affadavit filled with baseless, unprovable, nonsense, just like Al Sharpton axed you too. They got what they wanted, a win, their protests succeeded, Their voice was heard, Zimmerman was arrested and charged with murder.

Unproveable charges. Manslaughter, negligent homicide, they might have been able to prove. Murder 2? No way. Profileing? Thats not even a crime.

Everything I've read says that Corey is a smart, no nonsense, apolitical go getter. I don't se her suddenly becoming stupid. I think she is the fox in the henhouse, running a stage show for Govenor Scott. The media will get their circus. The people will be vindicated. Trayvon s family will have their day in court.

George Zimmerman will be aquitted by a jury of his peers, and be stuck with lawyers fees for bringing this mess on us all.

And in the future, Governor Scott, Sanford officials, the State of Florida, and law enforcement will be able to point and say" we did everything you asked, Zimmerman was brought to trial and we are not responsible for the jury's decision"

And then they can righteously stomp any further protests.

Just speculation. I could be wrong.

But how would you handle this poiwder keg if you were in charge?
TailHunter
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Posted: 4/13/2012 10:24:20 AM
Originally Posted By PR361:


But how would you handle this poiwder keg if you were in charge?


I would hope I had the personal integrity and resolve to only bring charges that are warranted. This country is not mob rule and should never be.
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Posted: 4/13/2012 10:25:35 AM
[Last Edit: 4/13/2012 10:35:56 AM by America-first]
Originally Posted By PR361:
Originally Posted By America-first:

Originally Posted By SGB:
The States probable cause affidavit reads like it was drafted by the NBC producer that got fired for doctoring the tape.


Harvard Prof. Alan Dershowitz: Zimmerman Arrest Affidavit ‘Irresponsible And Unethical’


From what Dershowitz said, it sounds like all Zimmerman will need to have the charge dismissed is for his case to come before an ethical judge who will impartially apply the law.

Previous to the indictment, I believed Angela Corey to be an honest public servant, though after listening to the pandering "campaign speech" she gave when she announced the second degree murder charge, I now know otherwise.

IMO, the worst outrage of any that a government can perpetrate against the people is to conduct political arrests and trials against its citizens; it's the mark of tyranny.

Our self defense laws were written to protect the crime victim from a rabid media and political pressure, as well as politically minded prosecutions and idiotic, pliable minded jurors.

I honestly didn't know what to believe in this matter, but because the media has poisoned any available information; I'm going to go with what Dershowitz has said.

I am disappointed in Angela Corey to the point of disgust; idiot that I am, I honestly believed our system was better, and that she in particular, would abide by the law.


With a fraudulent affadivit of probable cause, the prosecution of Zimmerman is a perversion of both the law and justice as well.



I threw this out in GD, but play along for a minute while I spring my " Conspiracy Theory" on you.

I'm considering the possibility that the affadavit, and charges are intentionally weak and over reaching.

Angela Corey was tasked by Gov. Scott to resolve this and make it go away. It is a huge, festering boil on the state, ready to explode. It needs to be diffused.

How do you do that? You cannot simply not charge the man. There are millions of people emotionally vested in seeing him charged, convinced he commited murder. They are stupid and wrong, but still there, and vocal. They must be answered to be quieted.

So you charge Zimmerman. You charge him with a ridiculous, over reaching MURDER charge, backed by a weak affadavit filled with baseless, unprovable, nonsense, just like Al Sharpton axed you too. They got what they wanted, a win, their protests succeeded, Their voice was heard, Zimmerman was arrested and charged with murder.

Unproveable charges. Manslaughter, negligent homicide, they might have been able to prove. Murder 2? No way. Profileing? Thats not even a crime.

Everything I've read says that Corey is a smart, no nonsense, apolitical go getter. I don't se her suddenly becoming stupid. I think she is the fox in the henhouse, running a stage show for Govenor Scott. The media will get their circus. The people will be vindicated. Trayvon s family will have their day in court.

George Zimmerman will be aquitted by a jury of his peers, and be stuck with lawyers fees for bringing this mess on us all.

And in the future, Governor Scott, Sanford officials, the State of Florida, and law enforcement will be able to point and say" we did everything you asked, Zimmerman was brought to trial and we are not responsible for the jury's decision"

And then they can righteously stomp any further protests.

Just speculation. I could be wrong.

But how would you handle this poiwder keg if you were in charge?


Under no circumstances would I put a man on trial for his freedom to satisfy a mob.

Or break him down even though I know there is no evidence that he has broken the law.

Never.

You think the media driven, racist mob and anti self defense minded liberals will be satisfied if a judge tosses the charge, or if Zimmerman is acquitted by a jury?

What's next, tell the judge the "fix is in" and Zimmerman must facd a trial regardless of the fact there is no tangible evidence that he broke any laws?

Our laws are intended to shield individuals from frivolous prosecution for defending themselves, and according to Alan Dershowitz, this is a clear case of frivolous prosecution.



No single raindrop believes it is responsible for the flood.

AN EMPTY BARREL ALWAYS MAKES THE MOST NOISE.
GuyinFL
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Posted: 4/13/2012 10:29:27 AM
Originally Posted By PR361:

But how would you handle this poiwder keg if you were in charge?


Lets assume for a minute Martin attacked GZ.

I would not prosecute, have a press conference with all of the evidence there outlining exactly how GZ asked Martin where he was going, show how martin attacked him first (give eyewitness statements) and then explain how martin was on top of GZ pounding his head into the concrete completely unwarranted. etc etc

Then put the Nat'l guard in every densely populated urban area and wait.

Otherwise, if GZ is the real perp, he deserves what is happening.
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Posted: 4/13/2012 12:50:39 PM
1. Angela Corey's speech started out like she was accepting an Academy Award. She spent so long thanking everyone who put her in the spotlight, I almost forgot what the speech was supposed to be about. She looked like it was the happiest day of her life. My interpretation is that she is nothing more than an aspiring politician who just jump-started her next campaign.

2. I really, really hope that she DOES have some type of "smoking-gun" evidence (like an eye-witness that saw more than the one who went public did) that has not yet been released. It's the only way to justify the charge she has brought.

3. The affidavit makes several assumptions that she better have some proof to back up.

a. Martin was attempting to "run home" when GZ began his pursuit. (he was likely "doubling-back" on GZ to confront him, a common thug technique to get the first sucker punch, which would also corroborate GZ's testimony)

b. GZ was "profiling" TM. Every single "suspicious person" call is a case of profiling. "Profiling" is nothing more that a liberal epithet for the very common human instinct that we usually refer to as "first impression," and is not a crime.

c. GZ disregarded the dispatcher and continued to follow TM. I was under the impression that GZ testified that he lost TM, and when told "we don't need you to do that", he stopped looking for him and was returning to his vehicle.

d. GZ confronted TM. Again, GZ's testimony was that he was confronted by TM while returning to his vehicle, not the other way around.

e. TM's mother identified the voice on the tape. I read that she initially told police that she COULD NOT IDENTIFY the voice, and only after the hoopla started did she change her story and said it MIGHT be TM. (an actual EYE-WITNESS testified that it was GZ crying for help, but let's ignore him and validate the grieving mother's CHANGED STORY.)

4. Corey's use of terms like "justice for Trayvon" (justice is blind, and should not be "for" anyone), and referring to him as the "victim" (we won't know who the "victim" was until after the trial) , totally disregard the concept of "innocent until PROVEN guilty."

5. This case is a witch-hunt and the charges have so little merit that the trial will be a FARCE. This is clearly a case of mob-rule and sets a very dangerous precedent. Public opinion (including my own) should have ZERO bearing on the application of law.

6. This whole situation is a lose-lose for FL. If GZ is acquitted, then the media will brand us as the state that lets murderers go free, a-la Casey Anthony. If he is found guilty then the whole concept of our RIGHT to self-defense will be under attack by those who feel that Americans are not responsible enough to defend ourselves, and must be herded like sheep for protection from predators.

7. Keep in mind that the burden-of-proof is on the state. They will have to PROVE BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT that GZ was NOT defending himself at the time the shot was fired. GZ has to prove NOTHING. Without an eye-witness to testify that they saw GZ approach and confront TM first, the state has a very difficult case.

8. Both side of this issue are equally guilty of jumping to conclusions (including myself). But those on the side of GZ at least have some corroborating testimony from actual witnesses. I hope I'm wrong about all of the above, and that there is evidence to support Corey's charge, but I doubt it.

9. Traditional American values such as personal responsibility/accountability, liberty, personal freedom, and most of all independence. are under attack. The "dumb-masses" (thanks Neil) have taken over and will not stop until we are all again "loyal SUBJECTS" to the crown/government. It saddens me that there are so many in this country who feel so poorly of their own abilities that they are willing to let others dictate their lives and freedoms. What is wrong with the people in this country? Where have all the MEN gone? We are becoming a nation of children who must be nursed from the government teat to survive.

10. It seems like ALL of our leaders representatives, on BOTH sides of the aisle, just make one wrong decision after another. This starts at the top and goes all the way down to the local level. The dumb-masses are in charge and they are being led straight to a life of total dependecy. The democratic philosophy of "majority rule", has been supplanted by the notion that the majority should suffer so the minority will stop bitching. (for those of you who are idiots, I'm talking about political and economic majority/minority, not race)

I've never "hoped to be wrong" as much as I have in the last few years.



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PR361
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Posted: 4/13/2012 2:01:47 PM
Well, WE will all wait and see.

I hope that There is real evidence that will either exonerate Zimmerman, or convince us all that we are wrong and they are right.

Nothing to do but wait and see.

And think up crazy conspiracy theories....
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Posted: 4/13/2012 4:16:30 PM
Originally Posted By dan2013:

...woman's purse was snatched from her by a black man in the Bo Diddley Plaza in Gainesville, FL. The white man who was with her tackled the perp. A crowd surrounded them and in mob fashion started to chant "TRAYVON! TRAYVON! TRAYVON!" ....


They couldn't ignore it for long Link Here



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Posted: 4/13/2012 4:46:08 PM

Originally Posted By PR361:
Well, WE will all wait and see.

I hope that There is real evidence that will either exonerate Zimmerman, or convince us all that we are wrong and they are right.

Nothing to do but wait and see.

And think up crazy conspiracy theories....


Keep in mind that they need to provide evidence to prove second degree murder. It
is not the other way around. He is innocent until PROVEN guilty. He does not need
to prove his innocence.

Let us never forget, government has no resources of its own. Government can only give to us what it has previously taken from us.
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Posted: 4/13/2012 4:46:08 PM
Tragic ammo for Zimmermans defense.

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Posted: 4/13/2012 6:39:50 PM
[Last Edit: 4/13/2012 6:56:19 PM by SGB]


Trayvon Martin shooting: Who is Florida State Attorney Angela Corey?



For some, she’s a model of justice, a tough nut with an aggressive, prosecutorial style and sensitive eye toward victims.

But for others, Jacksonville, Fla., state attorney Angela Corey, 57, casts a strikingly different image: a sharp-tongued, loose cannon, who drives one of her state’s highest incarceration rates.

........................

In her nearly 30-year career, Corey has not shied away from controversy, most notably with her first-degree murder indictment of Christian Fernandez, a 12-year-old boy who allegedly killed his two-year-old brother by beating his head into a bookcase.

The harsh charges led to widespread accusations of insensitivity. An online petition for Fernandez to be tried as a child, and not an adult, has more than 185,000 names.

"It’s not my job to forgive,” Corey told reporters in 2011. "It’s my job to follow the law.”

Corey’s tough approach has also drawn criticism for unnecessarily flooding Florida’s prison system with inmates.

"Generally, it's arrest the guy with the gun and sort it out later,” Teresa Sopp, a veteran criminal defense lawyer, told Reuters. "That's always been the way it works in Angela Corey's circuit.”




..............................




The grandchild of Syrian immigrants, Corey studied law at the University of Florida before joining the state attorney’s office in 1981. In 2006, while an assistant state attorney, she was fired by her predecessor, state attorney Harry Shorstein, following complaints over unprofessional and profane behaviour.

The Republican ran for state attorney two years later, with prosecuting juveniles as one of her top campaign priorities, and won.

Those who have defended against Corey maintain her tactics are cloying, often in favour of victims’ families.





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Posted: 4/13/2012 6:52:05 PM
Hmmm.

I drew a blank(page)
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Posted: 4/13/2012 6:58:22 PM

Originally Posted By PR361:
Hmmm.

I drew a blank(page)

Yeah I couldn't get the first link to work but I found another that does. Link fixed.
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PR361
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Posted: 4/13/2012 7:06:16 PM
[Last Edit: 4/13/2012 7:07:09 PM by PR361]
Interesting.

Wonder how it's all going to play out.
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