I purchased an Aimpoint M4 on E&E from seller chrissettle2007 http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_23/974549_aimpoint_comp_m4_nib__500_shipped_or_trade.html. The seller agreed to "ship usps with a tracking # insured". Five days after the payment was received, the package didn't show up nor did I get the tracking number. So I contacted the seller and was given a tracking number showing the package was already delivered.

I was confused since for insured package the USPS mailman would require a signature upon delivery. If no one is present, a notice would be left indicating the delivery attempt was made and the package will be held at post office for pick up... However there was no notice left for me, and the package was somehow "delivered".

I visited my local post office, talked with the mailman, and called USPS. All answers were "sir, the package was delivered based on the tracking number", or "I cannot remember where I put it but it's delivered", or "if the tracking number shows it's delivered, then it's delivered and there is nothing else we can do", etc.

After all the efforts trying to find the package, I finally gave up and decided to file an insurance claim. I contacted the seller and he said he would help. A few hours later he told me "They (USPS) said u can file a claim with your local post office" and "they told me there's nothing more I can do and the package was delivered so you would have to file a claim with your local post office".

I thought it's the seller that should file the claim. But I decided to work on the claim anyway. And I asked the seller for the shipping receipt, which is required by USPS as proof of shipping and insurance. And he replied that his wife "was supposed to send it express mail but sent it priority mail instead. Express mail carries $400 worth of insurance without purchasing anything additional. Either way she has the receipt somewhere for the shipping cost and the confirmation slip" and "I will let u know if she still has it. If she doesn't have it there is nothing else I can do".

So far (11 hours after our last communication), I didn't hear from the seller yet. Just in case he cannot find the receipt, is there anything I can do? Or is it true that the seller has no responsibility in such situation?

Update 10:50pm 05/05/2012: The seller replied 3 hours ago: "She no longer has the receipt because it was shipped nearly a month ago and she only held on to it until the package was delivered. I have spoken to the post office for a second time trying to resolve this issue for you and once again they told me you have to file the claim and there is nothing else I can do to help you. I shipped the package exactly how I stated in our emails prior to making our deal and the post office delivered it (supposedly to your house). As I told you in the previous messages I sent you she did not purchase any additional insurance other than what comes standard with usps priority shipping and there was no signature required. I have sent u the tracking # several times and that is the only information I have regarding the package. I shipped the package exactly how I told you it would be shipped in our emails prior to making the deal with you. Once again I hope you can get this resolved with the post office and this is just a suggestion, but I would recommend in any future online transaction that you make to have the sender ship the package to the post office and request that they hold it for you until you pick it up since it seems you have a problem receiving packages that were delivered to your house."


Updated 05/06 with full email correspondence (the seller's transcripts in blue)

(Mar 21) I think we can make a deal if you can do $465 shipped USPS w/insurance or UPS w/signature. Please let me know.

(Mar 22) I'll have to check and see what the warranty is. I've had it for a while sitting on the shelf. I have a couple others mounted on rifles and they're great. This one never made it out of the box tho. Too many projects. I'm OK with a personal check and will ship after it clears. I think these have lifetime warranties but I'm not sure. I'll check when I get home this Eve. My phone has been acting weird lately and it takes a while to get emails and all of a sudden I have several. I'll get back to u as soon as I get home about the warranty.

(Mar 22) Don't worry. I'll take the comp M4 anyway. Just want to know if you can ship UPS ground + signature. The cost would be also around $13 but it's much safer than USPS.
Please let me know. And I'll prepare a personal check for you.

(Mar 23) Hey I just got this message from u. I ship usps with a tracking # insured if that works for u? That's how I ship everything because it's faster than ups and there's a po close by. I got home really late last night and forgot to check that warranty card. I'll let u know as soon as I check it and let me know if usps works for u.

(Mar 23) USPS with tracking and insurance is fine for me.

(Mar 23) Sounds good. I'll email u later with the warranty info and my info for payment. I'll accept a personal check or usps mo and ship it once payment clears.

(Mar 26) Hey sorry it took so long to get back to u I've been having a lot of problems with my phone and had to get a new one. This is my only source of internet. The warranty on the optic expires Aug 1, 2012. Here is my info for payment (address omitted)

(Mar 27) I mailed my check to you yesterday, but was concerned about the warranty. On Aimpoint website it's said the warranty is "10 years for personal use from the date of purchase". Just wondering when you bought the M4? I assume it shouldn't be 9 year old...

(Mar 27) No it's nowhere near 9 years old (description of the M4 omitted). I'll let u know when I receive the check and I'll drop it in the bank the same or next day and ship it as soon as it clears. I'll send u the tracking # as soon as it ships.

(Mar 27) Thanks for the clarification. I guess the warranty card treats you as a professional or LEO :) No worries then. Please let me know when you get the check.

(Mar 31) Hey just wanted to let u know I received payment in the mail this morning and I'm on the way to drop it in the bank and I'll ship the optic and send tracking info as soon as it clears.

(Apr 5) Just wanted to let u know it looks like the check has cleared and I got stuck at work till 2am with some emergencies so I didn't get to ship it yesterday like I wanted. I also ran out the door this morning at 5:30am and forgot to bring it with me. I'm going to try to have my wife run to the po this evening when she gets out of work but if for some reason she can't I will make sure it is sent out tomorrow at the very latest and I will update u with the tracking info. Thanks again and my apologies for any inconvenience. You can also feel free to give me a call if u have any questions

(Apr 5) Thanks for the update. No hurry. Please just let me know when the package is shipped.

(Apr 11) Did you have a chance to mail out the Aimpoint? I may be out of town next week so it's be great if I can receive the package by this weekend.

(Apr 11) I had my wife send it out on Saturday. U should have received it by now. My apologies for not getting back to u sooner or sending u the tracking #, I've been working around the clock and haven't had time to breathe. Let me call her now and get the tracking #. Again I'm very sorry, with everything going on right now it totally slipped my mind. She did for sure mail it out on Saturday though.

(Apr 11) Thanks for your reply. I just wanted to make sure whether the package was shipped. Please send me the tracking number as your convenience (no hurry) so that I can plan my schedule for the delivery.

(Apr 11) Says it was delivered on the 9th. Your item was delivered at 9:08 am on April 09, 2012

(Apr 11) Thanks for the information. I didn't find anything at my front door however. How does the package look like? Did you have any insurance with the package? It's strange because if I were not present at the delivery, the mailman should leave a note so that later on I can pick up the package at the Post Office. I'll call my local PO tomorrow to find out.

(Apr 12) She shipped it with $400 worth of insurance and called to ask if that was enough. It went priority mail and was in the original box and wrapped in a water proof wax envelope and then in a bubble mailer. I've never had any issues with usps so this is very strange. Keep me posted and let me know what happened. She sent it to the address on the envelope u sent the check in.

(Apr 12) I called the PO and they said it's delivered but mentioned nothing about signature, which is needed for the delivery of an insured package. I'll drop by the post office in person after work to find out.

(Apr 12) She said they told her additional insurance wasn't necessary unless it was to be insured over $400. So she assumed what they told her was correct and it shipped priority and insured for $400 with delivery confirmation.

(Apr 12) The strange thing is: USPS would not just drop an insured package at my front door without getting a signature from me (or someone else in my residence). I am going to the post office to see if I can find the receipt of delivery with someone's signature on it. Did you have an insurance number that I can check with USPS?

(Apr 12) I went to post office this evening and the staff helped me looked around but didn't find any package that meets your description. Neither the postmen nor the supervisor was available at that time. So I'll call them tomorrow morning to see if I can find any more information.

(Apr 13) Sorry you're having so much trouble with this. They should be able to give u details of what occurred from the tracking #. The postal worker that delivered it should remember delivering it since it was just a couple days ago. I've never had any trouble whatsoever out of the post office and have been buying and selling guns and parts for 16 years. Again I'm sorry you're having such a difficult time with them.

(May 3) Sorry for not updating you earlier. I have been pretty occupied by my work recently. In past several weeks, I called and visited USPS in person several times, but was not able to locate the package. What was worse, USPS just lost another package from ARFCOM seller last week! Probably you have good experience with USPS. But for me, they suck. It seems there is no hope to get the package, sadly. And we have to move to the next step. Can you please file a claim?

(May 4) I can call them and see what they can do. By the tracking # it says it was delivered but I will call them and do whatever I can.

(May 4) Thanks for your quick response.

(May 4) Please tell USPS that although the tracking number shows package delivered, the buyer didn't receive it. A signature should be required for insured package upon delivery but I didn't sign any form or find any attempt-to-deliver notice left for me, nor could my local USPS office provide a signed receipt proving the acceptance of the delivery.

(May 4) No problem. I called them and they said their is nothing more I can do. They said u can file a claim with your local post office by calling 800-222-1811 and giving them the tracking numberOnce again I'm sorry for any inconvenience but they told me there's nothing more I can do and the package was delivered so you would have to file a claim with your local post office. Keep me posted and I hope u can find a resolution to this problem you're having.

(May 4) Thanks for the update!

(May 4) I took a look at the insurance claim procedure, and found I need the following information from you: 1 - Evidence of Insurance A mailing receipt, online label record, or shipment packaging can show the item was sent with insurance or Express Mail. 2 - Evidence of Value You’ll also need to show the item’s value or estimated repair costs, with sales receipts or invoices. Can you send the photocopy of these documents to me?

(May 4) I took a closer look at the instruction, and found "Customers who purchase insurance have the option to file their claims online through http://www.usps.com". Can you please file the claim? It seems to be the way it works.

(May 4) She was supposed to send it express mail but sent it priority mail instead. Express mail carries $400 worth of insurance without purchasing anything additional. Either way she has the receipt somewhere for the shipping cost and the confirmation slip. As far as value of the optic, the only thing I can recommend is printing something from an online site with a price where they sell them and what they sell for and maybe using a copy of the check?? Like I said I spoke to the post office and they said there was nothing else I can do. I will ask her for the receipt where she paid for shipping and if she still has it I can send u a copy of it. Is there any possibility that the package was stolen from your residence after it was delivered?? They claimed it was delivered at approximately 9am to your residence.

(May 4) I don't know if my neighbors stole the package or the mailman delivered to other places. But like I said, an insured package should not be delivered without a signature. So I don't know exactly what happened but just the package is lost. On the shipping receipt, there should be some lines showing the insurance number as well as the value of the package. If you can find the receipt, it should be enough. For the evidence of item value, I think it doesn't matter since that's primarily for claiming damaged package. For lost packages, all that matters is how much insurance you bought.

(May 4) I tried to. I called them this morning and they told me that YOU had to file a claim or complaint with your local post office. They told me there is nothing I can do. It was shipped and shows it being delivered by your local post office to your address and they told me YOU will have to file the claim or complaint with them because they were the last ones in possession of it and they claim to have delivered it to your address. Again I am sorry for your trouble but I have done all I can do to try and resolve this issue. Do you think it's possible that the package was stolen by one of your neighbors or something? Your local post office claims to have delivered it to your address.

(May 4) Like I said, an insured package would not be delivered without a signature. I didn't sign for the package and my local office cannot provide any signed receipt of delivery either. Anyway, my apology if you felt me being unreasonable. If USPS suggest I file the claim, then I'll do it. Can you please provide me the scanned copy of the shipping receipt (or mailing slip, etc) so I can start the process?

(May 4) I will check with her when I get home and see if she still has it. As of now all I have is the confirmation receipt with the tracking # and apparently that is useless. I will let u know if she still has it. If she doesn't have it there is nothing else I can do and I would suggest you go thru the process that the post office recommended you go thru when I called them for you this morning.

(May 4) Please let me know at your earliest convenience whether you can find the receipt. I cannot file a claim without a copy of the shipping receipt or something that showing the proof of insurance.

(May 4) I went to the post office this evening and asked if I can file a claim. They said they need the shipper's information and the shipping receipt (including the insurance number). Please let me know if you have them.

(May 5) Have you found the receipt?

(May 6) She no longer has the receipt because it was shipped nearly a month ago and she only held on to it until the package was delivered. I have spoken to the post office for a second time trying to resolve this issue for you and once again they told me you have to file the claim and there is nothing else I can do to help you. I shipped the package exactly how I stated in our emails prior to making our deal and the post office delivered it (supposedly to your house). As I told you in the previous messages I sent you she did not purchase any additional insurance other than what comes standard with usps priority shipping and there was no signature required. I have sent u the tracking # several times and that is the only information I have regarding the package. I shipped the package exactly how I told you it would be shipped in our emails prior to making the deal with you. Once again I hope you can get this resolved with the post office and this is just a suggestion, but I would recommend in any future onlinetransaction that you make to have the sender ship the package to the post office and request that they hold it for you until you pick it up since it seems you have a problem receiving packages that were delivered to your house.

Man, you sure have some shit luck. Aimpoint here view missing and a ACOG in another thread. I would be looking at your neighbors.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_109/982924_spectre04___bing_d__resolved_.html

Topic Moved

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_109/982924_spectre04___bing_d__resolved_.html

Two of these issues is a very strange coincident

you can say it. It is a strange coincidence. It's hinky.

Feel free to suspect my integrity. But please remember, I live in an apartment complex and the mailman delivers mails to wrong doors/mailboxes from time to time. Even you're not in my situation, have you never lost any mail? That's why I always asks for USPS w/insurance or UPS w/signature confirmation when I negotiate deals with sellers for expensive items, not just on E&E.

Feel free to suspect anything. But there is a fact that the seller agreed to ship the package insured, and confirmed that in follow-up emails. But eventually admitted he didn't buy any insurance or signature confirmation, resulting in such unpleasant situation.

Before I started the thread, I knew there would be doubts/suspicions about the odds that two expensive packages showed "delivered" but mysteriously "disappeared". I cannot explain my bad luck why I lost three packages in less than two months. But as a seller, I fulfilled my responsibility no matter where. Do you think I should keep my mouth shut, take the hit, and let the irresponsible and unhonest seller walk away, in order to protect my reputation just because people's suspicions?

I shipped the package exactly how I stated in our emails prior to making the deal and did not agree to anything else. I sent the buyer the tracking # and then he says it was never received? I've called the post office twice to try and resolve the issue for him and they tell me it's his responsibility to file a claim not mine. They also say it was delivered. What can I do when the post office says it's his responsibility to get this resolved and there is nothing I can do? I've gone above and beyond to try to help this guy and I've been doing this for over 16 years and have never had an issue like this occur. He has the tracking # and all the info about the shipment and according to the post office that is all he needs to file a claim. What else can I do???

Copies of all comms about the deal would help. If the OP requested insurance and the seller agreed, then the seller is on the hook.The old "my wife took care of it" excuse really doesn't matter. Have your wife pay the claim.

P.

The seller agreed to ship insured but failed to do so. And when I asked him he kept saying his wife bought the insurance. But eventually told me no insurance was bought. Can I call this behavior dishonest?

Even if the package was insured,the status of it being "Delivered" ends any responsibilty of the USPS,and they will deny the claim every time.

I know it's a shitty thing,but a very popular way for the USPS to get out of situations like these.

And to further that, if its insured over 200 or 250 they require a signature for delivery. I think its $200 but i dont recall for sure.

I think its UPS and Fedex that give "free" insurance up to like $100 or so.

yes,i would be upset also if we agreed upon insurance and none was purchased. also, insurance would have most likely prevented the package from being lost due to a required signature.

just because "the wife" forgot doesn't end the sellers obligation. insurance was bargained for and is now potentially putting the buyer out 500 bucks.

And my wife didn't forget anything, and that was never said so u guys should really stop saying that. The package was shipped and delivered exactly how stated. I'll post all of our emails and pay close attention to bing stating he was tied up with work and that's why several weeks went by with no response from him but he was responding to the other seller of the acog during this time. What's going on here??????

From April 12th to may 3rd I heard nothing from Bing because he was busy with work but it seems during that time he was sending several messages to the seller that he bought the acog from. What is going on here???

I have been working with Bing to resolve this issue and have called the post office twice. I will continue to do anything I can do to make this right but something very strange is going on here and not adding up. Why was Bing too busy with work to update me with any further information about our transaction but was sending several messages back and forth with the seller of the "lost" acog???

Did you agree to ship with insurance in your deals? if so, then you did not ship as stated, which you continue to repeat over and over again.

In the commo log Bing posted he asked for insurance several times. You agreed to ship it insured. You told him several times after the "delivery" date that it was shipped insured.

But you didn't ship it insured.

Had you done as he asked and as you said you would do, this situation wouldn't have happened.

Had it been insured, the USPS would have made someone sign for it. All you got was a DC# that means it got dropped off somewhere.

I told Bing the package would be sent priority usps which I was under the impression carried the $400 worth of insurance. It is express mail that carries the insurance. My mistake, but either way the package was delivered with delivery confirmation and I was told there was nothing more I could do. What more can I do here???

As other members have stated here insurance makes no difference after the package was delivered. It clearly shows the package was delivered. 03113260000175860335 so what can I do????

No you are not.

You have just had this happen to you twice, most of us have never had it happen, You may want to reconsider having packages shipped to where you live.

Feel free to attack my integrity, but you are the seller who didn't fulfilled what you promised in the deal. If you admitted in the first place the package wasn't insured, we could have worked out some solution, but now I have no choice but have to ask you for a full refund for your fault.

I communicated with bing via gmail throughout the claims process. It is strange that two optics a few weeks apart are lost? Yes. Do I thing it's possible? Yes. Am I a psychic genius? No.

chrissettle:
You should ALWAYS ship packages insured to the value of the merchandise, as it's a CYA thing for YOU. The extra $5-$15 is worth it. You assumed something instead of making the extra effort to protect yourself. If there was a proven/non-convoluted agreement between you and bing stating either it's not insured up to its actual value, then all us bystanders should shut up and leave you to it. This, however, hasn't happened. Your assumptions will end up costing you.

Bing:
Your method of receiving stuff absolutely sucks. It's unacceptable to have things (especially nice things) sent to your apartment while you're not home. You have great feedback and you were professional and patient in our little situation with UPS. Had chrissettle insured the package and USPS still denied the claim, you'd be out a few hundred bucks. You seriously need to change where your packages are delivered.

I'm not bashing anyone. I just finished dealing with Bing, and he was both patient and realistic. I have no history with chrissettle. Both parties have made mistakes.

This is why the seller is responsible for refunding the buyers funds in this particular case-
There is NO insurance that comes with Priority Mail unless you purchase the insurance seperately. Given this, the seller is on the hook for this missing item. Had the agreement been to ship Priority w/ confirmation only then it would be the buyers loss as the package does show delivered. chrissettle2007, I would like to hear your response

I never agreed to purchase any additional insurance on the package. Nowhere in any of my messages did I agree to purchase "additional" insurance on the package. That is my response. If u can find in any of my messages to Bing where I agreed to purchase "additional" insurance I will beg or borrow $450 from somewhere and reimburse him. Otherwise all I can do is follow the steps that I am instructed to go thru by usps to resolve the issue.