Hey guys, I want to do something different and really want to do an HK53.  I've not owned a roller lock firearm in a long time.  What are the pros and cons of this rifle?  Is a Vector the best way to go?

Thanks,
mark

Vector makes a great product but here are some pros and cons to me on 53s:

The Good:
They shoot wonderfully with low recoil
Very easy to control on fun-mode
I like diopter sights quite a lot
With a collapsible stock they are quite compact

The Bad:
They are really heavy for what they are
VERY ammo sensitive
They can mangle brass quite badly
Horrid triggers (really kind of a family trait barring the PSG1)
Not a whole lot of modularity
Parts are expensive
The rollers need to be swapped more often than on other guns in the family in my experience (the high pressure of the 5.56 round may have something to do with this)

The Ugly:
As per an HK employee-
The G36 fired 200 different types of ammo during its development with no changes to the mech. NO 5.56mm HK roller-locked gun would get even close to this performance without a bag of assorted locking pieces on hand.
Ever wonder why in the 1990's HK all but abandoned the roller-locking system for more conventional op rod gas systems? They simply are more reliable, easier and less expensive to make and repair, perform better with various ammo types and barrel lengths and are easier for the average operator to use and maintain.


So would I recommend one? Probably not unless you are really, really into roller-delayed stuff.

Ammo sensitivity, etc. isn't an issue if you put quality ammo through it or better yet, stick to one specific load.  Like shoot xm193 or xtac and nothing else and I guarantee that once it's dialed in, it'll run reliably with almost zero issues.

The biggest drawback is price. Try to find a Century C93 Pistol and start from there. That'd be the least expensive route. That's what I did. All mine needed was an HK53 ejector (shipped with HK33 ejector) and I only figured that out when adding a suppressor, as it worked fine unsuppressed.

A Vector should be good too. It just depends on what kind of deal you get.

They are difficult to build, as you'll either have to buy really expensive parts, or spend serious effort modifying HK33 parts (which are not inexpensive either). Once you have all the parts, you'll need a TIG welder, receiver (not sure if available anymore) and some real skill.

As far as performance, they're more like a SMG than a rifle. Don't expect awesome velocity out of their 8.3" barrel. Factory HK mags are expensive. Pro-mag is decent for these, I read. I use 40-round aluminum mags in mine. Zenith/MKE polymer mags are available (sometimes) for $34.95.

I use random ammo... Wolf, PMC, Fiocchi, Remington, and it's all been reliable.

They're fun. Feels like a longer heavier MP5. I have the A3 stock and a Surefire M63 rail up front. Mine's been extremely reliable, cycles great with a conversion pack, and throws huge fireballs at night. The AAC 3-prong cuts that down significantly, but it still flashes.

I've had one for several years now, and it's been 100% reliable with whatever brand of shit ammo I can stuff in the mag.  With or without suppressor.

Vector 53

I just ordered some ProMag 30 rounders from Gun Mag Warehouse for $12.99 each. Never thought I'd buy anything made by them, but the reviews are good. The Zenith mags are in stock as well.

I ordered a V53P from 802 Traders, 1 month ago. Gun shipped directly to my FFL from Vector in Salt Lake City, UT 2 days after order was placed. Picked it up from my FFL on 02/02/17. Took it out on 02/10/17 and ran 200 rounds Federal XM193 through it with 0 issues. Bolt-gap from Vector, after break in was .016".

That said, the issues it did have: cocking tube hanger was too off so bad I had to use a mallet to drive the push-pin through the handguard. Tried HK53 factory handguard, US MP5-length handguard that came with the gun, and a Beltfed Precision Products HK53 handguard.

I shipped the gun to Jeff Walters, because I wanted him to engrave my SBR info, and refinish the gun. The finish from Vector was satisfactory for a $1,000 gun, but I wanted it to match my builds from Jeff, and my PTRs.  While Jeff had it, I had him look it over and tell me what he thought. The only other thing aside from the cocking-tube hanger (which we both knew about) was the recoil rod. It is a custom length, so ordering up a replacement from HKParts, RTG etc will not be an option. Sort of disappointing, but we will see what Jeff comes up with next week when he tackles that issue. His concern was that there may have been some spring-binding going on, and they used surplus guide rod bushing that had been chewed up by the carrier. So I have new recoil spring and bushings en route to him. Will find out more next week.

I emailed Vector prior to purchasing, asking about the parts they use. They told me it was a mix-bag of parts that they have on-hand, so it's not "a kit".

The take-away from all of this is that while some guns are "factory-spec" others are "HK53-ish" So keep that in mind when considering replacement parts and maitenance. Also be sure to manage your expectations. There is a reason that a HK53 clone from the top custom builders is $3,000+. I bought this Vector 53 pistol, knowing it would need some $$$ invested to make it into what I wanted. That said, when I get it back from Jeff, I expect that I will be money ahead, for having a 53-style clone that I am happy with.

I have started 53 builds twice now... Then I remember that they are a money pit and sell them.

My HK53 has been great with cheap steel or brass. They are loud and fun.

I have a Coharie 53 that uses AR mags. It is a cool gun. I had to swap locking pieces to get it to run reliably. I also sent it to IGF to get the mag well tuned, paddle mag release, engrave sbr info, and refinish. It's a cool gun, but as mentioned above it is heavy for what it is. I would prefer an ak krink for size  and weight or for the same money you could build a very nice ar sbr. I have a few ak and ar SBRs so the 53 has a place. It is bad ass when I get a chance to run it with a sear pack!

James

To get into more detail, I looked into this a couple years ago.

There are a few options.

1- Buy the Vector for about $1500. It is a US "reverse engineered" receiver, and many of the parts are HK33 "surplus" parts. It is HK53ish, and not a perfect clone. If that doesn't matter, a decent choice.

2- Buy a US full stocked clone, MKE, or HK93 and then have the full sized parts modified to "HK53" spec. Or close. Cocking tube for example will only be close. Price a few years ago was just under $800. That was to modifiy the barrel/front end and bolt carrier. That does NOT include the refinish.
So-
Donor gun: $1000-2000
Labor:          800
Refinish:       300
Total:             $2100-3100



3. Buy MKE or real HK93 as a donor and have real HK53 parts installed. Labor was $640. That does not include the refinish. The problem is that there the real HK53 parts sold are off ex LEO weapons. So no idea of round count. and applying M16 style checks / gauges doesn't work. The real HK53 barrel I had for example, ate an M16 bore errosion gauge.

Donor: $1000-2000
Parts: $2300 (used parts kit)- 1750 (used German parts for unique stuff), $1000 (for US stuff)
Labor: 640
Refinish : 300

$3000-5300


That of course ignores that the HK33-93 series is a money pit. Want a A3 collapsable stock? $500-600. New trigger pack? $400-800. Real Miltiary grade mags that will last? $80.

My V53 was $1,130 shipped to my FFL. With cost of stock, tax stamp, transfer fees, tax, shipping to Jeff, refinish, fix, front sight and hanger, engraving, fix recoil rod, replacing parts, return shipping- Im at $2,500. Part of that is new RCM #15 LP, instead of the reground it came with (so totally optional) along with an extended cocking handle (I prefer them) and $375 is refinishing and engrave my trust info.

The Vector option is good. Just dont plan on paying the asking price and nothing more.

I really wish zenith/MKE would do a run of  53 size guns in place of the 33k ones.

Could also grab a D53 when Dakota Tactical starts making them again.  I plan on it...I love the welded top rail and rest of it.

Here is a video of my son Tom shooting his older brother's HK53. Notice there is little to no barrel rise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NZvs5N5cYE

Do it. It's a great gun and I've never had an ammo problem with the Vector V53 I own, any of the HK93->HK53 conversions I've shot in semi-auto or full-auto, or any of the actual HK53 post-sample MGs I've demoed. 

Loud as hell. Controllable as an MP5. Throws brass into the next zip code and mangles it beyond re-use. 

My favorite 5.56 caliber firearm. Period.

double tap

What type of stock is that you are using?  An original HK?  I have a Vector V53 SBR that I ordered as a factory gun back in 2008, and the stock that came with it is the old convex type cut down G3 stock and it's a total POS that doesn't lock up tight at all.  

I am wanting a better stock, with the correct later model concave style butt plate, but am having a hard time spending the $500+ for a real HK collapsable stock.

There was one on the EE.

I got one from Brethren Arms (technically a BA33).  It took a while but I am happy with how it turned out.  I went with a barrel a bit longer than the original just for personal preference.  I shot about 800 rounds of steel and brass Wolf and Federal M855 in full-auto the first day I got it.  Gen 2 PMAGs are a little tight but Gen 3 and OK Ind. aluminum mags fit fine.





This one has the AR15 magwell conversion, front and rear welded rails, MLOK handguard, and straight pull charging handle.

Also the South Korean A3 stocks are cheaper than German and they fit on my clones.

Be careful ordering a German stock as none of mine will fit my V53 SBR. The only stock that fits my gun is the A3 it came with. I've tried HK factory SG's, A2's and A3's without success, the receiver is out of spec at the top. Mine is built on a MKE flat, these have round rails but the correct cocking tube notch and rib stampings on the sides of receiver at the trunnion.

That is the A3 current version. I've had it since 2009 and paid nearly $500 for it back then. The loop at the bottom is nice because the rifle will hang off the edge of a table. You know... when you need to stop and eat a sammich while you're being an OPERATOR. 

If it is a "V53" it is made by Vector. If it is an MKE it is made by MKE. I don't believe that Vector ever used MKE flats. 

Not surprised your MKE isn't rolled right.

Well it's marked V53 but as I understand it they built the guns on MKE flats that were imported by TB. Perhaps Bailey rolled and welded them for Vector with a marking variance but I suspect it was Vector rather than TB. I say that because Vector replaced my first V53 with another under warranty. The replacement had the same issues as the original gun I returned so I sold it. But again I have no idea who actually formed these "not so perfect" receivers with barrels pointed skywards. Years later I came across a SBR at a LGS and bought it, it's not perfect but better than the first two pistols in terms of the crooked barrel issue.

Looking at your picture above it appears to have the ribs along the trunnion so are the rails round or flat? These MKE flats never received their final stamping to flatten the rails hence their rounded shape. My gun runs okay it's just not in spec dimensionally. They do have the correct 53 cocking tube configuration.

As far as your snide comment regarding MKE receiver quality I can say I've been very pleased with the small sample of MP5 style guns I've handled and shot. My MKE (ATI import) MP5 clone runs as well as my German gun with my LaFrance pack.

Regarding V53, I will say that in my opinion, it all depends what parts they had around the shop when they built the guns. I bought one from 802 Traders out of Vermont in February, and it shipped to my FFL direct from Vector in Utah. I emailed Bob at Vector, about how the guns were made. He said they weren't made from "demilled kits" but from the mass of parts they had. When I asked why they did some things, such as weld the front sight tower to the barrel, and weld the cocking tube cap on, he said "I would have to ask the smith that builds them. That is just the way we do it, but he will know"

Jeff Walters removed the front sight on mine, and replaced it, along with cocking tube cap, handguard hanger. During this he found they had to roll the barrel and re-press it to get bolt gap. (Gap was .016" when I got it) To fix the handguard, Jeff had to make a new cocking tube extension, and replace the old hanger. It was half a hole off. I dont know how Vector got it in when they built it. I had to hammer it through and felt like I was going to break the top of the pin-hole off. Now it goes in like butter. Also, Jeff made a new recoil rod. I had him refinish the gun and engrave my NFA info as well, but that was just me being fussy, the original finish was acceptable on a $1,000 clone. He also faux-pinned my trigger housing, which is totally a cosmetic thing.

If you go the Vector route, just know you will probably have to invest a little bit into it. For Jeff's work it was $600, including return shipping and insurance. Large part of that was just the refinish, and engraving NFA info, and pin the trigger housing. If I had just asked him to fix the front sight and hand guard hanger, it would probably have been closer to $250. My total investment for this gun, including the $200 SBR, stock, recoil buffer, etc is just shy of $2,000. Overall I am very happy with it. It looks great, runs great. Cant complain.

Edit: When I got the gun from Vector in Feb, I ran 200rds of Federal XM193 through it with 0 issues.  Bolt gap was within spec. Sights weren't crooked. So other than the handguard pin issue, the gun was fine. For the $1,100 price, you could pay $200, slap a stock on it and have a HK53 clone. This is my 2nd Vector gun, and in my opinion I would use it over a Century.

Vector Arms has sourced parts from so many different places since it has changed hands several times over the years I would not be surprised if they used receiver flats manufactured outside the country, but since they're flats they would not need to be marked (no variance needed) I was just responding to your statement "Mine is built on a MKE flat" and that Vector doesn't use MKE flats. An MKE flat would be a receiver marked MKE, otherwise there is no telling who made it if unmarked.

I'll remove any doubt if you thought my remark was simply a snide comment: MKE is garbage and is built to the lowest possible price point that ATI... uh, I mean now Zenith (because ATI gave up) can extract a meager profit from by importing.

Where's your stock man? Are you SBR-ing that puppy? 

My Century C93 Pistol has been perfect, other than needing a true 53 ejector when going suppressed, as mentioned above.

I paid $535 for it at the beginning of 2015 when Century dropped them from the catalog. It came with two 40rd aluminum mags. My HK53A3 stock was $330, and the Surefire M63 fore end was $111, all from GunBroker. That put me into the package for about $1,000 shipped.

Later I swapped the AAC 3-prong when I suppressed it. I already had the HK53 ejector in a burst trigger group, so I swapped it for the 33 ejector.

The 3 ProMags I ordered all work fine. They lock into place, but if I whack them on the spine they dislodge, so I might modify their locking slots like I've seen on YouTube. They're fine for range mags though, and at $12.99 can't beat the price.


I don't have any problems to report from my ATI-imported MKE AT94K pistol either. It was a bit tight when fitting for a Choate folder, but I've read that's due to Choate's holes being tight on the receiver block, and very common to need opened up a little.

Let me ask once more does your V53 have round rails? I see it has the rib stamped on the side of the trunnion which is lacking in the US made receiver flats from SW. The MKE flats have the cocking tube notch cut into it where the SW flats don't. AFAIK the MKE flats imported by Bailey years ago were the only ones with those features.

Forms sent February 2017. Post updated photos next year

Find a C93 pistol. They are generally great quality.
Vector is OK in most cases but more expensive and more likely to have issues.

I don't know, but my recollection is that they are flat. The rifle isn't at my location. I'll get to it in a week or so and post some pictures. You want to see the rails and the cocking tube notch cutout? 

@ Maim - Yeah pretty much just look at the rails, if they're round then the gun was built on one of the MKE flats. The cocking tube notch might be more difficult to judge on a finished gun.
Check post #5 in this thread for a photo comparing the two, you'll see the differences in the notch and rib stamps.
SW vs MKE receivers

ETA: also look at the indexing stop tabs along the bottom of the receiver where the trigger pack hits, you'll see that the MKE tabs are smaller.