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Posted: 4/17/2015 8:49:55 AM EDT
Lots of naysayers on here, but the proof is in.

G36 has serious thermo issues

In summary: The G36 assault rifle of the Bundeswehr is not accurate. The testing has shown that has commissioned the Ministry of Defence. The bullets hit up to 50 centimeters in addition to the intended target. The Ministry is now thinking about the medium term to equip the Bundeswehr with another assault rifle.
Link Posted: 4/17/2015 5:34:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Since there are no civilian full auto G36s, the relevant question is whether a civilian semi-auto G36 can get hot enough in use to have the same problem.
Link Posted: 4/17/2015 7:12:14 PM EDT
[#2]
There are recent photos floating around somewhere that show a G36 trunnion as it is embedded in the polymer receiver both before and after use. The deformation of the polymer bedding around the trunnion cogs is undeniable and clearly the cause of wandering accuracy.

It's amazing that HK would think it okay to bed the trunnion of a select-fire assault rifle in polymer.

The SL-8 has the same trunnion design, several rapid, semi-auto mag dumps will show the same results. Someone with a converted SL-8 should step up and test this.  You could become famous....
Link Posted: 4/17/2015 7:16:05 PM EDT
[#3]
So a m4 will kaboom on over the beach test. Still own a m4 clone and will get a g36 clone
Link Posted: 4/17/2015 7:50:30 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
So a m4 will kaboom on over the beach test. Still own a m4 clone and will get a g36 clone
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Errrr..... what?
Link Posted: 4/17/2015 10:22:52 PM EDT
[#5]
So after all that you still want one? Sheesh
I'd rather spend my money on a. Beretta ARX,Tavor or a SCAR than a shitty designed rifle.
Link Posted: 4/18/2015 1:36:16 AM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
So after all that you still want one? Sheesh
I'd rather spend my money on a. Beretta ARX,Tavor or a SCAR than a shitty designed rifle.
View Quote


Not everything has to shoot dime sized groups at 100 yards from an unsupported position to be worthy of a place in your safe. Some guns are just fun to own.

Personally I enjoyed shooting my dealer's G-36C at his annual shoot. I loved the way that the rifle handled. So I'll probably buy one.

Link Posted: 4/18/2015 3:37:46 AM EDT
[#7]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Homeinvader:

There are recent photos floating around somewhere that show a G36 trunnion as it is embedded in the polymer receiver both before and after use. The deformation of the polymer bedding around the trunnion cogs is undeniable and clearly the cause of wandering accuracy.



It's amazing that HK would think it okay to bed the trunnion of a select-fire assault rifle in polymer.



The SL-8 has the same trunnion design, several rapid, semi-auto mag dumps will show the same results.Someone with a converted SL-8 should step up and test this. You could become famous....
View Quote
How many mags? I'm on vacation next week anyway

Link Posted: 4/18/2015 8:49:42 AM EDT
[#8]
IIRC the article said that leaving the rifle to sit in the sun would shift zero.  

Link Posted: 4/18/2015 11:56:06 AM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
How many mags? I'm on vacation next week anyway
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
There are recent photos floating around somewhere that show a G36 trunnion as it is embedded in the polymer receiver both before and after use. The deformation of the polymer bedding around the trunnion cogs is undeniable and clearly the cause of wandering accuracy.

It's amazing that HK would think it okay to bed the trunnion of a select-fire assault rifle in polymer.

The SL-8 has the same trunnion design, several rapid, semi-auto mag dumps will show the same results.Someone with a converted SL-8 should step up and test this. You could become famous....
How many mags? I'm on vacation next week anyway


Several sources say the rifle's precision will grow to something like  20-30 MOA after firing the basic bundeswehr combat load. Not sure how many mags that is or even if it's full-auto, but it's definitely an interesting thing to try.

If you are game, then carefully establish a good MOA reading at 100 yards cold, then go nuts on rapid fire semi-auto without consideration for accuracy, then go back to the bench and see if zero has moved and what MOA the gun shoots.

Don't let the gun cool or the test will be be for nothing. I'm sure the zero changes after cooling, but the groups will probably shrink back to more or less normal after the polymer stabilizes.

Carefully document everything on video and have witnesses. Having two cameras working simultaneously, one on gun and one on target would be the best for credibility.
Link Posted: 4/18/2015 12:48:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Finally a gun that lives up to the accuracy of the Mini15/ac556 from the A-team TV show...
Link Posted: 4/18/2015 1:49:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Several sources say the rifle's precision will grow to something like  20-30 MOA after firing the basic bundeswehr combat load. Not sure how many mags that is or even if it's full-auto, but it's definitely an interesting thing to try.

If you are game, then carefully establish a good MOA reading at 100 yards cold, then go nuts on rapid fire semi-auto without consideration for accuracy, then go back to the bench and see if zero has moved and what MOA the gun shoots.

Don't let the gun cool or the test will be be for nothing. I'm sure the zero changes after cooling, but the groups will probably shrink back to more or less normal after the polymer stabilizes.

Carefully document everything on video and have witnesses. Having two cameras working simultaneously, one on gun and one on target would be the best for credibility.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
There are recent photos floating around somewhere that show a G36 trunnion as it is embedded in the polymer receiver both before and after use. The deformation of the polymer bedding around the trunnion cogs is undeniable and clearly the cause of wandering accuracy.

It's amazing that HK would think it okay to bed the trunnion of a select-fire assault rifle in polymer.

The SL-8 has the same trunnion design, several rapid, semi-auto mag dumps will show the same results.Someone with a converted SL-8 should step up and test this. You could become famous....
How many mags? I'm on vacation next week anyway


Several sources say the rifle's precision will grow to something like  20-30 MOA after firing the basic bundeswehr combat load. Not sure how many mags that is or even if it's full-auto, but it's definitely an interesting thing to try.

If you are game, then carefully establish a good MOA reading at 100 yards cold, then go nuts on rapid fire semi-auto without consideration for accuracy, then go back to the bench and see if zero has moved and what MOA the gun shoots.

Don't let the gun cool or the test will be be for nothing. I'm sure the zero changes after cooling, but the groups will probably shrink back to more or less normal after the polymer stabilizes.

Carefully document everything on video and have witnesses. Having two cameras working simultaneously, one on gun and one on target would be the best for credibility.


Looks like The Firearm Blog already has someone on this with a real G36....
Link Posted: 4/18/2015 2:08:06 PM EDT
[#12]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Looks like The Firearm Blog already has someone on this with a real G36....
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:



Quoted:



Originally Posted By Homeinvader:

There are recent photos floating around somewhere that show a G36 trunnion as it is embedded in the polymer receiver both before and after use. The deformation of the polymer bedding around the trunnion cogs is undeniable and clearly the cause of wandering accuracy.



It's amazing that HK would think it okay to bed the trunnion of a select-fire assault rifle in polymer.



The SL-8 has the same trunnion design, several rapid, semi-auto mag dumps will show the same results.Someone with a converted SL-8 should step up and test this. You could become famous....
How many mags? I'm on vacation next week anyway





Several sources say the rifle's precision will grow to something like 20-30 MOA after firing the basic bundeswehr combat load. Not sure how many mags that is or even if it's full-auto, but it's definitely an interesting thing to try.



If you are game, then carefully establish a good MOA reading at 100 yards cold, then go nuts on rapid fire semi-auto without consideration for accuracy, then go back to the bench and see if zero has moved and what MOA the gun shoots.



Don't let the gun cool or the test will be be for nothing. I'm sure the zero changes after cooling, but the groups will probably shrink back to more or less normal after the polymer stabilizes.



Carefully document everything on video and have witnesses. Having two cameras working simultaneously, one on gun and one on target would be the best for credibility.





Looks like The Firearm Blog already has someone on this with a real G36....


Good, because I don't have that many cameras or friends



I still might give it a shot though and see what happens.
Link Posted: 4/18/2015 3:27:58 PM EDT
[#13]
The audit reportedly concluded that G36 rifle receivers were being made in whole or in part from polyethylene plastic (a very common, very cheap plastic of the kind used to make milk jugs and bags), rather than the polyamide plastic specified
View Quote


For fucks sake HK, are you kidding me? I wanted to believe it was something they couldnt control, but this just makes me so dissapointed
Link Posted: 4/19/2015 4:52:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Old news



That's why the Army never adopted them, also the receivers  would crack.




Looks cool on COD, but that's about it.
Link Posted: 4/19/2015 5:19:53 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Old news

That's why the Army never adopted them, also the receivers  would crack.


Looks cool on COD, but that's about it.
View Quote


You clearly didn't read the article or the accompanying information. It's not old news. It's VERY NEW news.
Link Posted: 4/22/2015 9:46:10 AM EDT
[#16]
Well, here's a clear article in English;

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/german-defense-minister-widely-rifle-future-30497523

German Defense Minister: Widely Used Rifle Has No Future
BERLIN — Apr 22, 2015, 9:12 AM ET
Associated Press
Germany's defense minister says a widely used assault rifle has "no future" with the German military in its current form, escalating a dispute over its alleged shortcomings.

Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen said last month that a study showed the G36 rifle has a "precision problem, particularly at high temperatures." Manufacturer Heckler & Koch has questioned those conclusions, complained about a lack of consultation and accused the government of damaging its reputation.

After parliament's defense committee met Wednesday, von der Leyen said another expert report finds "the G36 as it is constructed now has no future in the Bundeswehr," though she didn't rule out the possibility of using a modified version.

The G36 is a standard weapon for the German military, which currently uses more than 166,000 of them.
Link Posted: 4/22/2015 10:05:26 AM EDT
[#17]
I've got an sl8-G36c conversion I would be willing to test this theory on if someone supplied the ammo :)
Link Posted: 4/22/2015 10:54:03 AM EDT
[#18]
US Capitol Police had some G36's in their armory a few years back...
They were dumped because of receivers cracking...
Link Posted: 4/22/2015 11:06:26 AM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I've got an sl8-G36c conversion I would be willing to test this theory on if someone supplied the ammo :)
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Someone at Firearm Blog has a real G36 and is doing this right now. Probably no reason to ruin your SL-8 right now...
Link Posted: 4/22/2015 1:02:58 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I've got an sl8-G36c conversion I would be willing to test this theory on if someone supplied the ammo :)
View Quote


It's most likely only a recent batch of rifles produced with the inferior, downgraded polymer, not older models. Yours is likely fine, as are most G36s in service.
Link Posted: 4/22/2015 3:22:48 PM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:
I've got an sl8-G36c conversion I would be willing to test this theory on if someone supplied the ammo :)
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Do a accuracy test at 100 yards. Show a group of 10 shots after the gun sitting in the cool shade. Then repeat the test but leave the gun out in hot sun (maybe on top of a black car for 1 hour). I'll bet the group will open up.
Link Posted: 4/22/2015 10:01:10 PM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:


You clearly didn't read the article or the accompanying information. It's not old news. It's VERY NEW news.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Old news

That's why the Army never adopted them, also the receivers  would crack.


Looks cool on COD, but that's about it.


You clearly didn't read the article or the accompanying information. It's not old news. It's VERY NEW news.


No it is old news, except to you, and inexplicable the Bundeswehr.
Link Posted: 4/22/2015 10:31:04 PM EDT
[#23]
Yet people still want one. Astounding
Link Posted: 4/23/2015 11:23:33 AM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
IIRC the article said that leaving the rifle to sit in the sun would shift zero.
View Quote

Yes, particularly if you just leave it on the ground flat, when one side will get hotter than the other. Also, the German government institute (EMI) report states that ambient temperature and even humidity changes will impact POI.

The strongest allegation yet is that H&K mixed in a cheaper plastic (polyethylene) to the receiver polymer mix, which was not in the original prototype rifle samples that were the basis of the contract specification.
Link Posted: 4/23/2015 10:29:55 PM EDT
[#25]
USCs will have similar issues if not total failure if people run many mag dumps through them.   How long has this rifle been in service for the German army?   Did somebody finally run a couple hundred rounds through one in the same day?

The German army has become such a total joke, the Poles should overrun the country.
Link Posted: 4/24/2015 1:42:06 AM EDT
[#26]
It's amazing to see this trending just finally now. This as been known and out there for more than a decade. But no bro Rainbow Six and all. #gamergunguros&hkprofanboys
Link Posted: 4/24/2015 10:16:56 AM EDT
[#27]
What's a gun guro ?
Link Posted: 4/25/2015 2:41:45 PM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:
What's a gun guro ?
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iPhone spelling error. Gamer gun gurus are those who give you the rundown on a weapon from an experience they had in their latest video game
Link Posted: 4/25/2015 3:31:27 PM EDT
[#29]
Ahh. Gotcha.
Link Posted: 4/26/2015 7:49:29 AM EDT
[#30]
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